|
T218 Tolstoi Backs
Hi all....anyone got a bead on a value/price multiplier for Tolstoi backs in T218s? I did some quick math off the SGC Population that shows of the graded T218s, 34% are Hassan, 62% are Mecca and 4% are Tolstoi. I've heard dealers and forums claim the Tolstoi' are even rarer than those numbers might indicate.
Any other insights appreciated what a Tolstoi card might be valued compared to same card in the other two backs. thanks |
Tough question.
4% of the pop is probably not reflective of the actual ratio of Tolstoi to the other brands because as rare cards with strong values even in low grades Tolstoi cards are more likely to be slabbed than their common counterparts. Some Tolstoi sales from 2010: Gans good $73.00 SGC 20 $52.00 Johnson SGC 20 $114.83 Mellody SGC 20 $32.00 Some Tolstoi sales from 2009: Johnson SGC 10 $89.89 $108.05 SGC 20 $116.94 Brown (ex) $112.22 And from before the crash: Jeffries f $42.75 Johnson SGC 40 $505.09 Langford p $32.50 O’Keefe ex $449.00 If the cards are in nice shape, only an auction would establish price accurately. If they are really great and slabbed, you could see hundreds of dollars a card, even today. |
Appreciate the info and sales figures. I agree with your assessment that they are more likely to be sent for grading so the pop is false indicator. I purchased a lot of about 300 T218s recently and there was one Tolstoi in the group - as luck would have it, it was the Johnson portrait :)
|
I've owned easily 500 T218's (2 complete sets, plus a lot of extras and a ton of upgrades) and have only had 1 Tolstoi in the bunch. I'd say way tougher than 1% of the total.
|
I've got a few more than that. I don't know of any sets, though I am aware of one member here who has a near set of boxers. I got lucky some years ago and stumbled across an album with several T218 Tolstoi at a World Boxing HOF show. They're also a real bitch to find in better shape. Most of the ones I've seen would grade out vg or worse.
I think I've seen more of the Jack Johnson blue BG cards than any others, with Gans a close 2nd. There's also T220 Tolstoi, which is tough but not as tough as T218. |
Tolstoi cards are amazingly tough
Love this topic and this set!!
Like the previous posters, I've had a ton of T218s over the years and very few Tolstoi backs. Without looking at my database, I believe I currently have about 700 total cards and only 4 Tolstoi backs, but this is in no way representative of the ratio, as I've trimmed my collection down in recent years and sold lots of Mecca and Hassan backs (but I kept the Tolstoi backs). In my research, and in some of the posts on this topic here on Net54 in recent years, it seems that the distribution between Hassan and Mecca backs are fairly even, but Mecca is slightly more common than Hassan, by maybe a 55:45 ratio. The 1% rule for Tolstoi sounds way high to me. In fact, I really don't think it's a stretch to say that Tolstoi backs run at about a 500-to-1 ratio to the other brands. Maybe I'm way off, just going off my own observation and talking with fellow collectors. I am not suggesting that Tolstoi backs should be 500 times more valuable - I think the prices that Exhibitman posted seem about right and are in line with what I've paid. I would bet my house that a full 153-card set can NOT be completed in Tolstoi backs. In fact, if someone here on the board is closing in on a full set of the boxers, I'd love to see them. I haven't heard of that before. |
Tolstoi List -
Here's a list of what I have:
Ben Jordan Ben Jordan Bob Fitzsimmons Charlie Goldman Charlie Mitchell Frankie Madden Freddie Welsh Freddie Welsh Honey Mellody Jack Burke Jack Dempsey Jack Johnson Jack O'Brien James J. Corbett James J. Corbett Jeffries vs. Sharkey Jeffries vs. Sharkey Jem Driscoll and Glover Jem Mace Jem Mace Joe Choynski Joe Gans Joe Wagner John C. Heenan John Heenan vs. Sayers John L. Sullivan John L. Sullivan vs. Kilrain Johnny Frayne Johnny Frayne Johnny Frayne Kid Lavigne Kid McCoy Kid McCoy Leach Cross Leach Cross Marvin Hart Marvin Hart Marvin Hart Mike Donovan Mike Donovan Pal Moore Peter Maher Randall and Turner Tom Sharkey Tommy Burns Tommy Burns Tommy Burns Tommy Burns Tommy Ryan Tug Wilson Tug Wilson Tug Wilson Young Corbett Young Erne Young Erne Young Erne Young Griffo |
T218 Tolstoi = T206 Drum
RBrown - wow, the Fort Knox of Tolstoi's...nice work.
Clearly Tolstoi's are to the T218s what Drum's are to the T206s...if only the market knew. |
Great list, RBrown - looks as if you have about 40 different ones?!
I've never seen anyone with that many. Just curious how long it has taken you to acquire those and if maybe you were able to get a bunch of them in one large lot/purchase? Great job. |
Brad, Adam was referring to the 27 known T218 boxers with a Tolstoi reverse. I'm at 25 of 27 and if anyone has either of the 2 I need I would trade you 2 in return. :)
|
The list RBrown has above appears to include T220's. The T220 Tolstoi's are much easier to find with several known comlplete sets.
|
|
There was a Tolstoi thread some time ago here where we went into the issues of the T218s:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...t=t218+tolstoi |
Yes - sorry - I didn't pay close attention to the names on RBrown's list. I was just quickly counting all the different ones without looking at the details.
To be clear - I really only collect the T218s and when I was saying my experience with the ratio of Tolstoi backs to Hassan and Mecca, I was speaking strictly about the T218s. Maybe my numbers are way off, but I think the 1% rule is too high. It seems to be a lot less than that to me. |
Brad, I would agree, 1% is on the high side. What it actually is... we will never know but my opinion would be in 1:300-400 range.
|
Quote:
|
Tolstoi backs
Brad,
It's taken over five years! I did purchase ten I did not have from a guy in upstate NY! Looking for more I don't have........ Bob |
There are 50 different T218s with Tolstoi backs. I own about 10 of the track guys and have never paid more than $10 for one even though I agree that they are pretty rare - maybe 1 in 500. Most sellers don't realize how rare they are and the non-boxers don't seem to attract much attention on EBay.
|
Bob, which T218 Tolstoi's do you have? We may be able to work a trade in your favor. :)
|
PSA on Tolstoi Backs
I found it interesting on the PSA website that in their SMR Price Guide they have a note on the T220 page that indicates Tolstoi backs command a premium but there was no mention of Tolstois on their T218 page. As we know - the Tolstois are rarer in the T218 set. I sent them an email a couple weeks ago pointing that and they have since updated their T218 page noting the Tolstoi premium.
http://www.psacard.com/SMRPriceGuide...x?SMRSetID=634 |
What a joke the SMR is; talk about fictional prices. Not one of the listed cards exists in a PSA 9, yet they price them.
|
Looks like I just picked up this in tonites Hunt auction- had not seen a Tolstoi box prior to this, and needed one to go with the Mecca and Hassan packs.
Anyone pick up the other Tolstoi box in tonites auction? http://www.huntauctions.com/phone/img96/205.jpg |
Nice pickup, Anthony! I was the underbidder competing with you during extra time for that Tolstoi box and card - I was wondering if it was you or someone else from here bidding on it.
My only pickup from Hunts was one of the basic Sweet Caporal boxes - i wanted the T227 Honest box with the Hoppe card but was the underbidder there as well. I should have bid again on that one, more for the Hoppe card than for the box! |
I did not know of that auction; looks neat. I've seen the boxes before but only once or twice.
I did manage to pick up a T218 Tolstoi Griffin recently. Nice shape too. Probably gonna send it off to SGC for entombment. |
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:39 AM. |