No Hit Kings Ball - Opinions please?
 

Hi all:

I've had this in my collection for over a decade. Something about it is bothering me, but maybe I'm being paranoid.

Opinions are much appreciated. Thanks. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../NHKKoufax.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...hs/NHKRyan.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../NHKFeller.jpg

All three signatures look like they were written by the same person.

No hit kings ball
 

The Ryan absolutely appears to be good on this ball and I am an advanced Ryan collector.

Amazingly, Feller appears to be bogus. The "B" in Bob Feller appears to be all wrong. Not close to the way he forms his B's. It's hard for me to imagine that Feller would be faked as he was such a prolific signer. Since I believe the Feller is bad, it makes me question the possible authenticity of the Koufax. I will ask my close friend Phil Paul the premier Koufax collector for his opinion and come back with a follow up response.

This is EXACTLY my concern.

I've analyzed the Koufax and Ryan and, if they are fake, they are superb fakes. I could not find an issue with them compared to dozens of PSA and JSA approved exemplars.

But the Feller was the red flag to me. Not just the formation (which seems off), but it is too neat and there does not seem to be nearly enough pen pressure. I must presume that if the Feller is bad, so are the others.

As Barry indicated earlier, they look like they were signed by the same person. My gut is beginning to tell me that person may have been Greg Marino.

I am interested to hear what your friend says. I suppose it is possible it's just a freaky -- but real -- Feller. :confused:

Thanks - Steve

My main concern would start with the Feller as the rest of you pointed out...While the Koufax and Ryan both look somewhat legit on their own(keep in mind, I don't know much about Koufax's signature), it's my opinion that the Feller and Ryan were signed by the same hand. I only say this because the "B" in Bob, and the "R" in Ryan are formed the exact same at the top. So unless, Nolan Ryan himself, forged the Feller signature, I'm gonna assume that the Ryan is questionable as well. Then you gotta figure that if 2 out of the 3 signatures on the ball are questionable, I'd imagine that the 3rd is as well.

Now as some have already stated, and i completely agree with, all three are probably written by the same person...The Ryan and Koufax are good enough to give a second though to, so I'll assume the forger put a lot of practice into those. Now it would make sense that with Feller being the most common, not as much time was taken trying to perfect his, thus explaining why his is a bit more obvious.

I just heard back from my Koufax collector friend. He stated that in his opionion the Koufax signature on your ball is absolutely not real FWIW.

Although my initial impression was that the Ryan signature looked legit, I am beginning to question the way the top of the "R" in Ryan appears to be labored and somewhat shaky on the right side. Ryan typically signs fairly fast, and the more that I look at the R, the more it looks as though the person that signed these labored through this pen stroke. David is correct that the "B" in Feller and the "R" in Ryan do look very much to be signed by the same signer. Typically, faked Ryan signatures that I see jump off the page at me. This one, not so much. I also tend to agree with David that the signer had spent alot of time working on getting the Ryan and Koufax right.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like you might have a trifecta of bad sigs on your ball. Sorry!

If it is a fake feller, it is a very rare ball indeed.

lol

Almost as rare as a Feller UNsigned photo.

However, this goes to show you the level of greed. Rather than "salt" the ball with a real $10 autograph, they even faked that. :mad:

Thanks everyone for the insight and opinions. Good catch on the top of the "B" Bob and the "R" in Ryan being almost identical.

I purchased this from B&J Collectibles (NJ) in 1998. My heart sank when I was recently reading Operation Bullpen and B&J's name came up as being a buyer of Marino forgeries. I wasn't totally convinced however because B&J did sell some legitimate stuff as well as conduct private signings.

I just couldn't get past the Feller on this ball and my gut told me I had been duped. My experience is that when you have a bad feeling about a collectible, you are usually correct.

Well, feel free to save the images herein and file them under "Marino Family Forgeries."

Mr. Zipper,
Welcome to the club!

BTW, I recently found out that I had been duped on a vintage signature that I purchased for my own collection. I believed that I purchased this signature from someone that was trustworthy, but that was not the case.

Obviously I won't be buying from this seller any more. The only good news to be had is that I learned fairly early on with this guy and have learned a valuable lesson.

It's happened to the best of us. And any autograph collector who claims they've never been burned is lying. It's an unfortunate part of the learning process, and serves to motivate us to educate ourselves and make smarter decisions moving forward.

Because of greed, there are fakes in every realm of collecting. It's not limited to autographs by any means. At least this was not a super high-priced item, like a Ruth, Gehrig or Cobb. Still a bummer... and most of us reading this can feel your pain.

But thanks for posting it, and helping to further educate the community ;)

This has been a few tough weeks for me. :(

I released a study on my blog showing Charlton Heston signatures TTM were secretarials. Long believed to be authentic even by TPAs.
http://zipper68.blogspot.com/2011/03...graph-its.html

I found out one of my Mantles was fake, and a second one probably is as well. And now the No Hit King ball. Ugh.

And I consider my self a pretty informed buyer... none of this was the obvious junk from ebay. It was all bought from supposedly reliable sellers. Except for the Hestons of course.

The risks of the hobby I guess.

Thanks for the info... I guess I'd rather be informed and know than have my head in the sand. :D

It's getting scary out there! My concern on the Koufax was the "o" in his last name looks like it was very slowly written. And the Feller looks nothing like the Feller I own.

I have a signed Branch Rickey photo that I need to send in for Authentication, but I'm worried. He signed his name quite a few different ways though so it's hard to pinpoint if mine is good or not. Nothing to do but send it in and see, I guess. Sorry to hear about your Mantles.

Hmmmm.....

I immediately thought "Forgeries." I have a genuine Ryan-Koufax dual signed, personalized and inscribed ball. The Ryan signature came from a cousin who worked for Advil and got it at a commercial shoot and the Koufax came from a client who is a FOS [Friend Of Sandy] and got it in 2005 when Koufax was out here for the 50th anniversary celebration of the 1955 WS win. Your ball's signatures are both too wide and show signs of hesitation. The "Koufax" also is way too defined--he stylizes his last name to a greater degree.

I still can't believe a FAKE SIGNED FELLER.. Fascinating to read how you guys came to your conclusions, which I agree with, after really studying them. To me, the Feller looks really off. I have a signed book of his, and the difference is pretty obvious.

Good detective work everyone, and sorry that you got stuck w a lousy ball too.

PS. I hope this isn't a BOGUS BOB..haha

Just saw this one on ebay, I know it comes with a Paul Goldin Score Board COA. Any thoughts on this "no hit kings" ball?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nolan-Ryan-Sandy...item1c1a60c61a

This has been an instructive thread. Although the news was not good for me, I'm glad I posted it because I learned a few things.

* Always look at multisigned items as a whole... not just individually. Separately, the Koufax and Ryan were pretty deceiving, even to some here. But looking at the Ryan with the Feller, there were some alarming similarities in the two.

* Don't just focus on the more prominent signatures, The one you expect the least can be the tell. Apparently, Greg Marino didn't practice his Feller as much as Koufax and Ryan.

Clearly the Feller looks better. :D And the Ryan appears to be signed with speed, unlike my forgery which is more tentative.

I noticed that on PSA or JSA approved exemplars on eBay, the Ryan was typically on the sweetspot, as is the case with this one.

On my forgery, the Koufax was on the sweetspot.

I found this old thread...

Is the consensus that a triple signed ball with Koufax on the sweet spot is not authentic? Most of the ones I have seen they are authenticated have Ryan on the sweet spot. Thanks!

Undoubtedly fake... the rancid legacy of B&J Collectibles of NJ.

Here it is today. In a few weeks it will get tossed into a ball bag for practice.