O/T Ebay to start collecting final value fees on shipping!
 

Another round of fee changes from Ebay from an E-mail I just got.

I'm not usually the first one to get on the ebay-bashing bandwagon, but this is absurd. It is completely unfair for ebay to collect fees on shipping costs. In fact, they already do by taking in the paypal fees.

Unless they have a way of putting a ceiling on shipping, this would just make everyone raise shipping costs to cover the new fee---but I guess they are going to put a ceiling on shipping costs, probably so much so that the seller will lose money on shipping and get nothing for handing and shipping materials. To me, this is the most annoying thing ebay has done yet.

I don't think it's a big deal, but it will impact small cost items. For example, if you sell a beater for 0.99 with a reasonable $2 shipping, your final value fee just went up three times. Sellers won't be able to raise shipping costs. You'd get dinged on the shipping cost DSR, and the Top Rated 20% fee is too big to give up. What I do is to recycle the bubble envelopes that I get when I buy cards. I haven't gotten dinged on this yet...

Just seems like more shoddy logic from Ebay to me.

Lower your fees by raising your shipping expenses. :confused:


Also checked on the new Final Value "savings". 0 to $50 is going down from 8.75% to 7.5% but anything over $50 is actually being raised from 4% to 4.5%.

This certainly doesn't seem like it will even come close to covering the full value fee tack-on to the S&H costs.

Not that I should be surprised. Their numbers never actually ever come close to matching up with their pitch.

It's another rate hike, plain and simple.

in return...they are offering free Auction style listings with any start price (50 per month)

"That's why to encourage low-cost shipping, starting July 6 Final Value Fee rates for Store sellers--Fixed Price and Auction-style--will be reduced and then applied to the total amount of the sale--including shipping."

It only applies to eBay stores and they are going to reduce the final value fees for the sale, but add on final value fees for the total amount of the sale (including shipping). So, isn't it kind of a wash? Besides, if it's really an issue, just raise your BIN price by $3 on your store items and offer free shipping. Wouldn't that resolve any problem? I just don't see a big deal.

Total BS. These idiots with MBA's are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I recently sold a toy truck for $7.05 dollars and was charged a Final Value Fee of $.63 cents (9%). The buyer was from Australia and postage was $17.80 dollars. Under the new rules starting April 19, I would have been charged a FVF of $2.24 for this same transaction if the FVF remains at 9%.

So, because of a rule change and an accounting trick, eBay management has their stock value increase without actually doing anything to deserve it.

Fraud still happens, shill bidding still goes on and yet these guys get a boost in their net worth. Even worse, every time the Post Office, UPS or Fed Ex raises their rates, eBay management will see an increase in fees generated from sales.

Oh yea, the cost to ship the toy truck to Australia was for First Class. If I used Priority Mail International, then shipping would have been a little over $26 dollars.

David

I like that they are charging FVF on the postage but not giving the 20% top rated seller discount on the postage Fee charged.

Doesn't apply to those with stores, and they more then made up for that free listing offer by exponentially raising final value fees if you didn't purchase an Ebay store and actually sold any of those items............which I assume is the purpose of listing in the first place.

It's not a wash and also applies to auctions...........not just BIN items.

I've been getting 100 free listings per month if I start the item at 99 cents...I use all of them up selling relic cards for a pal of mine who cuts me in on it...occasionally over the last year they've also been giving me 100 free listings per month at any start price...that's not a bad deal. One thing I wish ebay would do is make all the categories like the collectibles category and let you have gallery and 12 pictures for free...I don't get why it's always free in Collectibles but nowhere else.

I also believe in packing well and shipping the next day...I live close to the post office so this is not a problem...I think anyone can achieve the 20% discount if they just do those two things...and for the squeaky wheels who are always trying to get something for nothing I immediately let them know they can return the item no questions asked for a full refund...Never give partial refunds...that only encourages the something for nothing crowd.

Crystalize
 

Could someone crystalize for me the impact on how these changes:

Help/hurt (big vs small sellers)
Encourage/discourage what type of listing (bin vs. auction)
Spur/deter small $ dollar listings (under $10 listings)

i.e. are they zagging back to a free-wheeling smaller dealer online flea market after failure to turn it into a big seller fixed priced amazon?

When eBay makes changes to their fees, you can either go along with it, or make changes yourself. 2 ways to do this:

Auction style listings: just raise the shipping price by $.25. Shouldn't this cover the additional FVF?

BIN: offer free shipping, but raise the price on the individual items.

You have to pass the additional costs on to the customer. Sorry, but that's just the way business works. If you had any type of brick and mortar retail business and the cost of doing business went up, would you eat that cost or would you pass it along to the customer? It a shame it has to happen, but it's a part of doing business.

You can also do what many big time sellers have done and that is just leave ebay and go elsewhere. Shows are going to continue to get stronger and ebay will be left with mainly overpriced BIN sellers who maybe sell 1-2 cards a month which is fine with them but not so good for ebay. I said a months ago sell your ebay stock it will only continue to drop, more fees-less profits but what do I know.

Below is part of the E mail I received from eBay this morning. So, based on this, it looks like I will no longer list my items for sale to over seas buyers.

David


Coming April 19: List Auction-style FREE, any start price, all the time. Add Buy It Now FREE.

Dear :

Your upfront cost of selling on eBay is about to be dramatically reduced once again!

Starting April 19, Standard Auction-style fees will be changing. You'll be able to list FREE at any start price--up to 50 items a month. Plus you can add the Buy It Now option FREE to grab those buyers who don't want to wait for your listing to end. In short, you can now list even your higher priced items free--pay only if it sells.

Also, we know online buyers pay attention to shipping costs when deciding what and where to buy. That's why, to encourage low-cost shipping, Final Value Fees for all sellers will be applied to the total amount of the sale, including shipping. Just keep your shipping costs low to get the lowest overall fees.

UPS, FEDEX and the Postal system raise there rates and the clowns at Ebay want the sellers to lower them.

Yes, that will happen. But isn't it strange that Ebay's whole justification for this new fee structure is that it will lower shipping costs when everyone knows it will do the opposite? There is the cost of business and then there is doublespeak.

I also think this new structure will hurt sellers and buyers who deal at the low end, where shipping is a higher percentage of the total cost. Since I am not a high roller and also mostly sell cheap items, it seems it will hurt those buying and selling less expensive items.

That's true, but with the DSRs tied to discounts you've also got a situation where the customers satisfaction reasonable or not determines part of your overhead. The place I work for has never had the landlord tell them that "customers are happy so you'll get something off the rent"

DSRs could be a really valuable diagnostic tool for customer service if they weren't anonymous. Sadly it's just being used as a revenue enhancement for Ebay.

Steve B

Max FVF raised as well?
 

I know the maximum Final Value Fee on Auctions used to be $50. I just read on their site it is now $100. Can anybody confirm this? Is this a new change or did they raise this fee earlier and I missed it...

Here's another beautiful feature they failed to mention in their press release. FVF discounts for Top Rated Sellers do not apply to the FVF charged for shipping charges. No 20% discount on this new fee either.

eBay wants to become one big online store and do away with auction style listings. All of their changes suggest this. This new change is nothing different and is just another step in doing so. They want sellers to offer free shipping and this is one way to make it happen. Think about it, you can't even charge for insurance anymore (or at least state that in your description). This new change is one way of forcing the seller to offer free shipping. Sellers who list true auction style listings aren't going to offer free shipping because if they take a loss on the card, they sure aren't going to take a loss on the shipping as well. So, why not just offer BIN with BO options with free shipping? That's what eBay wants and they'll get their way one change at a time.

they tried to slide this one in
 

I believe this to be new. Most of the items I sell go for under $555, so I won't be impacted. Anyone who's typical sale was $555-$1111 is going to feel the pain on this.

My crystal ball also is telling me that my shipping rates are going to increase by 10% on April 19.

I'm sorry to be an obvious shill here, but you all can do something about this by moving your items over to http://www.GrandSlamBids.com. For store items, we have a great 2-click eBay import tool and for the regular site, we're currently offering 0 listing fees on both fixed and auction style listings. The final percentage is significantly less then what eBay was and this change will only grow the difference. We created the site with the understanding that eBay looks like they will increasingly make things more and more difficult for collectible dealers and at some point, folks will say enough is enough.

Ebay just doesn't want to be known as an auction outfit anymore and simply wants this to be a giant cyber mall.

If I wanted a Warren Spahn autograph, I would go to eBay. There are 569 choices. Of those, only 37 Spahn autographs are up for auction, while the rest are in eBay stores/BIN. Historydirect wants $899 for an inscribed ball!

Everytime I get an e-mail from eBay, I know they will creatively put it in words to make it look like I'm getting a deal, but in truth, I'm being bent over.

DanC

Seriously, if I had the money, I would do a take over of eBay and split them into two companies; one strictly for stores and the other strictly for auctions. Either that or I would find a way to start a strictly on line auction company without all the bells, whistles and drama that eBay is now.

David

I'm not going to defend ebay's move, but there is another side to this. I once bought a clock on ebay. The same clock was available from several sellers. Most charged about $8 for shipping, and their clocks sold for $30-35. Others charged $40 for shipping. Their clocks sold for a dollar or not at all. These sellers were clearly charging the full value of the item in their shipping fee. In this way, they avoided ebay's fees (and maybe even lured in a few careless shoppers). I can see ebay wanting to prevent this. Of course, that doesn't mean that ebay has no other motives.

Then they should charge final value fees on the shipping for ebay sellers who do not have a good DSR rating on shipping...instead they are punishing everyone for the acts of a few. They could very easily exclude top-rated sellers from this new fee.

Ebay has to constantly keep raising money to satisfy their investors so each year they need to come up with a new gimmick to keep the money flow coming in. Last time it was going with Paypal only, now it is charging on shipping. The problem is that eventually they are going to run out of gimmicks and either the investors will leave (when ebay profits go down), or the sellers will leave (when fees get too high). If I was going to be buying stock in Ebay, I would think very hard about that.

Scott

Shill indeed! Ban him, and ban anybody whose name sounds like his :cool::rolleyes::D

Other than that, I agree that ebay is doing a death spiral. As has been pointed out, instead of responding to the concerns of sellers and vendors, they are now beholden to their investors and the capital markets. Instead of a innovative presence in the market (as ebay was in 1997), it has become a lumbering bureaucracy.

Brief & amusing summary from Motley Fool on the latest fee manipulation: eBay's Latest Bonehead Move.

By the way, the stock has been going in the opposite direction of down since last year. PayPal profits are driving that.

What I find objectionable are:

--The loopholes and gaps in the seller protection system. Like international shipping, which has become a big black hole for sellers who use the USPS to ship internationally.

--The piss-poor treatment that sellers receive from Ebay. If they want sellers to act like pros, the least they can do is be professional in return. Meaningful customer service, for example.

--The incessant lying over the changes. It would be so refreshing not to feel like Winston Smith every time Ebay announces one of its new initiatives. Just once, I'd like to see them say something like "we're charging on shipping now because a bunch of jackholes in Taiwan are charging $35 to ship a $5 item and we'd like a slice of that action."

I think the last one is what annoys me the most.

Maybe some "Buy It Now" sellers who don't mind letting stuff sit for decades don't mind the changes.

I already have two websites that do that for me...............and they don't change the rules, up my rates, force me to renew my listings every month and charging me again for every item in my store.......... and then ask me to continually fiddle with my listings every time somebody in management gets an itch on their brain.

For people who run true auctions............this is a huge rate hike. There is no form of math that can say otherwise.

You can bet this will lead to shoddy packaging from Ebay sellers trying to cut costs........... and increased use and abuse of Media Mail, which seems to be getting slower and slower by the year.

This certainly is not an advantage to the buyer, which Ebay claims it to be.

Ebay logic - Lets raise the sellers shipping expenses in order to cut the buyers costs. Oh, and we'll fool the sellers into thinking they're getting a great deal by cutting their final value fees by 1% on items under $50.............and hope they don't notice all fees are actually going up for items over $50.

Oh, not to mention the carrot of "Top Seller" discounts and the discontinuation of the PowerSeller discount, they seem to be really proud of.

I strongly disagree. Show me the math to prove your case. I read from the email that eBay will lower the FVF on the item sold, but then add a FVF to the overall purchase.

"...starting July 6 Final Value Fee rates for Store sellers--Fixed Price and Auction-style--will be reduced and then applied to the total amount of the sale--including shipping."

Let's say your item sells for $100 and you charge $3.00 S/H. Currently, the FVF would be $9.00 (9%). Using the same example, under the new fee structure they are going to reduce the FVF (they didn't specify by how much, but let's say to 8.5% - a .5% discount), so it would be a $8.50. Then they are going to add a FVF to the shipping (again, they didn't specify how much, but let's say 10%), so it would we $.30. So, the FVF under the current fee structure would be $9.00, but the FVF under the new structure would be $8.80 - saving $.20 from the current system.

The above is just an example. I don't know what the exact percentages are, does anybody else? If not, how can you say this is a bad change? If my numbers are wrong then so be it, but show me an example with some true numbers.

And if I am wrong, just do what many, many other sellers on eBay are already doing - offer FREE S/H. They're loving this change because it is actually saving them money.

I posted the percentages in the 4th post in the thread as it relates to ebay store owners who run "auctions"

All the new percentages can easily be found on Ebay.

$3.00 S&H? Oh in a perfect world. I suppose I won't insure anything going forward. Rigid packing..............gone...............Priority Mail..............gone................Delivery confirmation.............gone.........I'll just hope my stuff shows up in good shape and on time, where it's going and have my DSR scores trashed in the first month.

I shipped a package to California last week cost me $14.07 just in postage costs alone. It wasn't a huge sale either, but publications that ran on the heavier side and cost enough I thought it was important to insure.

I sell Memorabilia also. 1st Class Mail only takes packages up to 13 ounces..........and as I've painfully discovered recently is getting less and less reliable. I just refunded a customer 80 bucks for a 1st Class package that disappeared on the way to Newark, New Jersey three weeks ago. I've seen NET54 members rail that Priority Mail is a rip-off and not worth it...........but I've yet to have a Priority Mail package disappear. Every lost package I've had in the last 11 years has been either 1st Class Mail or 1st Class International Airmail.

Take into account Paypal already gets their cut of the shipping charges.

Now Ebay is going to take their full FVF out of those shipping charges (they will not include them in the Top Seller discount, if anybody actually ever has one of those 6 months from now).

Free S/H? Show me any significant Ebay seller who runs "true auctions" as I've already mentioned. Low starting bids, lets the market decide what items are worth, and offers Free S/H.

Show me an auction house that offers free S/H.

Ask ScGaynor or JonStats how offering Free S/H on "auctions" would affect their ebay business. Ask any ebay seller who handles consignments on a regular basis and only gets a percentage cut of the final sale already, if they should start eating S/H costs.

It's completely unrealistic. You can't build S/H charges into the price of auctions.

Sorry for the rant.........but this one is hard for me to swallow.

Of course I'll adjust, figure it out and go on with my life.

Ebay is still the best venue around and I'll continue using it because it's the best way to move material.

Maybe GrandSlamBids will one day give them a run for their money. I'm rooting for them.

Until then............I'm stuck venting about it on Net54 for now. I'm sure I'll get over it and accept it eventually...............until then...........:cool:

John Rogers (Lexibell) runs true auctions and has free shipping...but he's the only one I can think of that does this. I get 100 free 99 cent listings per month which I usually use up on postcards or modern relic/autograph cards...no way am I offering free shipping on those.

GSB's success is dependent on folks actually moving there as a selling venue; it isn't going to happen with people taking a wait and see approach. Folks have the opportunity to use a different venue that focuses on the hobbyist and doesn't gouge on prices, but we can't force anyone to use it; we've got free listings and fees are a fraction of eBay; let us know what else we can do to convince folks to move?

We do understand that there is a risk of running a true auction due to a smaller audience (to start) impacting the bottom line; that may be a short term hit that needs to be taken to secure a long term solution. Even then, taking a much smaller % then eBay, items that sell for less still don't net out too badly. Alternatively, a reasonable starting bid or a reserve offer protection.

I don't get any free listings a month and I'm not eager to start selling items for 99 cents even if I did, to be honest with you.

Lexi has found a sweet spot based on the type of items he's selling and the fact he has what amounts to an unlimited supply of it. I'm sure he's weighed out his pros and cons and it works out for him. He's an exception.

I've been trying to save on postage. I finally started to use the on-line postage thru ebay. It is I think 6.6% cheaper and Confirmation delivery is free ! on priority mail. I also noticed that priority mail is many times cheaper than parcel using on-line postage and also NO standing in line at the Post Office.

Note: Also check the great rates on the Priority Regional A ( up to 15 lbs) and B boxes( up to 20 lbs). They are cheaper than Flat Rate on many occasions.
I've saved several $$$ this week shipping with Regional boxes. These boxes are free thru USPS.

Use the calculator to compare prices. Every penny helps off-set ebay fees.

I understand that Matt, and when I get the time I very well may give it a shot. Unfortunately I'm only one person and have two websites and my regular auctions to maintain.

I have scoped out GrandSlamBids several times already to try and get a hang of the navigation, and when I am confident enough and have some spare time, I'll probably have a serious go at it.

This is one of those things were all sellers are only 1 and by themselves wouldn't effect a change, but the more who come over, the more the ball rolls. Let me know if we can be of assistance or if you have ideas that might help.

Hmmm...I ordered priority boxes from the USPS website and for some reason they sent me a crapload of these A and B boxes...the postal clerks don't have any idea what they are for. Can you explain these to me or send me a link that explains them?

Thanks

My local post office doesn't have them(regional A & B ) boxes yet either. They will take them if done on-line and left with them on the counter. Do the ebay on line and see your options the next time you sell something ? You can check it out without using it. Go with the lowest price that can fit into that box. Ebay sent an email about these boxes. I think they just started a few weeks ago.

D. Bergin,

I understand what you're saying and I understand how this is going to affect you (and other sellers that offer true auction style listings), but I disagree that this is nothing but a rate hike. As I stated earlier, eBay wants to become one big online store and do away with auction style listings and this is just another step to make that happen. They don't want more of your money by collecting FVFs on shipping costs. They would much rather you offer BINs, or BINs with BO option and offer "free" shipping. The "free" shipping would be built into the cost of the item.

You have to look at this from eBay's point of view. If all listings were BIN's (either with or without the BO option) with "free" shipping, it would eliminate a lot of headaches for them - no more complaints about shill bidding. No more complaints about over inflated shippings costs. I could go on and on.

So, it's not a rate hike, it's a way to make you list your items they way they want you to (BINs). It's certainlly not a rate hike for sellers that are currently offering free shipping. In fact, it is a rate decrease for them. Again, I'm telling you eBay wants to become one big online store and this is just another step in making that happen. People can choose to believe that or not, but I promise you I am right and little by little they will get there way. I'm sorry for sellers that don't like it (and you have every right not to), but that's just the way it is.

while it might suck for some, the reason they are doing this is because some sellers sell their items for .01 and charge $9.99 for shipping, so they make all the money via their shipping charges and keep the money out of ebay's hands.

Funny, as we speak I just lost my Top Seller status and the discount on Ebay for getting another ding in the "Shipping & Handling Cost" category.

This, despite the fact I plaster exact shipping costs and terms in bold on every one of my listings, give deep shipping discounts for more then one win, try and ship as sturdy as possible, insure when I think necessary, cover losses whether I insure or not, and don't make any money on shipping.

If I'm lucky at the end of the month, I've broken even. With the USPS losing more and more packages lately, or customers taking advantage of erratic tracking habits (I wonder sometimes)...........I'm usually in the hole.

Also just noticed this little nugget while looking at my seller dashboard:

Based on the fact about 1/4 of my auction winners tend to be out of country, airmail is getting more and more unreliable, and Priority and Express costs unreasonable, it's only going to get worse.

Guess I've officially stopped chasing the carrot. There's really no point. Guess I could ship free overseas to. That would make for some fun sales of The Ring Record Books.

Okay, whine over. Thanks for letting me vent again.

:(

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just get rid of those sellers, instead of alienating the larger portion of honest sellers?

I thought the days of overinflated shipping charges was supposed to be over when eBay started making sellers:

1) tell what type of container they were using (envelope or box).
2) tell what company was being used to ship the item (USPS, UPS or Fed Ex).
3) tell what size of envelope or box was being used
4) tell the weight of the item

With all of this being entered in the listing, I thought that the buyers were supposed to have a better idea of their shipping cost and thus total cost, if they won an item?

David

I have never had to enter this information for any of my listings. Are you sure that it isn't optional?

I've never had to enter that kind of info either...it does ask for what type of shipping you will use, but never for box or envelope.

Here is what my page looks like for that section:

It says "Give buyers shipping details.

US shipping. Then has a drop down box which you can choose options from (Cost varies by location, flat rate - same cost for all buyers, freight, local pick up only).

Then it has package type and a drop down box with options (letter, large envelope, package or thick envelope, large package) then it has boxes to fill in for number of inches for height, width and length.

Then it has weight and a drop down box to choose the weight of the package.

Next it says services and has a drop down box to choose how you want to mail the item (USPS Priority Mail, First Class, media rate, UPS, etc) or free shipping.

Next it says offer additional services and gives an option for either combining items or no combined shipping.

Next is a drop down box with options for handling time.

Last is additional options and that is for whether you want to add a handling charge or not.

Then it goes to the International shipping information.

So, if I sell a book, I have to weigh it and the box I am shipping it in and then add a little weight for wrapping and insulation, say whether I am going to mail it Priority Mail or media rate and tell if it is going in a box or an envelope.

If the box is oversized, then I have to measure the lenght, width and height and put that info in.

Based on all of this info, the buyer will be able to see approximately how much shipping is to their Zip Code based on my ZIp Code. The approximate cost info shows up on the auction listing and changes based on where you are looking at it from.

I.e., if I look at my own listing from my computer in my house, I will get the approximate shipping cost to send the item within my own Zip Code. However, if I were to go to California and look at my listing from there, it would show the cost to mail the item from Indiana to California.

David