How many T206 Wagners ???
 

I have seen many numbers thrown out there. Does anyone know how many ACTUAL T206 Honus Wagner cards are really out there? Without listing real names (for safety sake, maybe give a first and last initial some we don't duplicate in counting) does anyone know anyone who has a real one (not counting the graded ones). I have always wondered how someone can say in an article, etc. "there are about 50-75 copies out there" Has an official count ever been taken?

Have any of them been crossed over from psa to sgc? If so, have they been removed from psa pop reports? 34+9 there is also just one with beckett, right?

Not enough
 

Not enuff

First, I agree with Pat.

I've held one, and know 4 people that have had them, and I think one of those might have been included in that 50 - 75 quantity of yours. Lots of folks think that. I think there are a bunch of cards out there that the internet, show, board, and National folks never see and don't know about. I know there are. I think that if some folks think that there are maybe 75, that little ol' me knows of a few more, that there must be even more out there that aren't widely known, so there must be 120 to 150 or so. With that said, I again agree with Pat, not enough. Hope someone finds a big stash. If a stash of 800 of them were found, and the price on the card dropped down to that of a red Cobb portrait, would any of us lose our enchantment with the white border tobacco cards?? Not me.

Of course we will never know exactly how many there are, but there are folks who have been around the hobby a long time, like Rob Lifson, for example, who have personally seen, sold, or know of the vast majority of the examples in the hobby. I trust their estimates when they put it at around 60-75. My guess is that they know of the ones Frank knows of.

If there are 75 Wagners out there and approximately 3 change hands per year (either publicly or privately), then that means the average Wagner owner holds their card for about 25 years. I can't imagine the average being much higher than that. I think if there were 120-150, we would see them more frequently.
JimB

Hard to go by pop numbers...
 

You cannot go by grading company's population reports - four of the best Wagners in the hobby have not even been graded.


I also think that 50 to 75 is a pretty good guestimate.

I've seen a Wagner in a collection that has been there for 50 years... the Lifson's of the hobby know not of its existence, I doubt that Lifson was keeping up with card in 1960. Maybe they accounted for it in their guesstimations. I doubt it. I agree we'll never know. And I think my 'guess' is closer to reality that 50 to 75.

Back in the '60's, there were only a handful of them in the hobby (less than 10), according to period publications. Those that followed closely could keep a reasonably good count as new examples were discovered. Of course some may not have been big public announcements, but I imagine the Rob Lifsons, Bill Mastros, and the elder hobby statesmen that they were close with had pretty good knowledge and a reasonably accurate running tally. It is just like it is reliable hobby knowledge that the total number of Cobb backs in the hobby has gone from 6 to 14 in the last fifteen years, thanks primarily to a major find of 5 in 1997.
JimB

My understanding is that the 50-75 figure does not represent only the known Wagners -- after all it is an estimate -- but rather is an extrapolation based on the known ones. So it probably accounts for ones like Frank's example.

Yes call me crazy! The pop reports are not right. I think there are about 40 total if that. The price goes up every year. Demand is bigtime. Because supply is low.

i agree that the figure of 50,60-75,80 is an extrapolation...and I believe this figure to be somewhat accurate...In my opinion there is NO way there are 100-150 t206 wagses...no way!

What 4 examples? I know the one in cooperstown is probably near mint but what other 3?

I know that busting a card out of a holder to get an unbiased second opinion is common so I think there might be less examples of the poor 1 grade then they have reported.

I have not seen a raw example at auction or heard of a private sale but I don't follow the card too close.

I have trouble with the 50+ raw card theory

For what its worth, I have scans of 28 of them (inc. the Proof).

Ive only been "collecting" the pics for 4-5 years now.

All scans are from internet or auction catalogs from 1988-2010.

I always say est.65

Peter.

That is my understanding as well.

Matthew,

I doubt that the other three owners would be too happy with me if I posted their names. Two are members of this board and post. They can decide if they want you to know who they are. The other is a very well known collector who does not post. None of his collection is slabbed.

Kevin

I don't need to know who. I believe they are there.

Best 10 for eye appeal, out of the 28 different I have scans of.

(#1 is the PSA-8 chopped example, #3 is a PSA-5, #4 is a SGC-40, #5 is a Fritsch owned one, #6 is a PSA-2, #7 is a SGC-40, #8 is/was a GAI 3.5, #9 is restored)
http://centuryoldcards.com/images/t206wagnerpsa8.jpghttp://centuryoldcards.com/images/weboak.jpghttp://centuryoldcards.com/images/psa5wagner.jpghttp://centuryoldcards.com/images/19...agnersgc40.jpghttp://centuryoldcards.com/images/wagnerfritsch.jpg
http://centuryoldcards.com/images/wagner-psa2.jpghttp://centuryoldcards.com/images/wagnersgc40.jpghttp://centuryoldcards.com/images/gai3.5web.jpghttp://centuryoldcards.com/images/19...errestored.jpghttp://centuryoldcards.com/images/WagnerWo9-91.jpeg

etc. etc.

Unless the baseball HOF has a "new" wagner...I remember theirs being a g maybe...definitely nowhere near nmt?

The BB HOF Wagner is a beauty. Not NM, but definitely one of the best in the hobby. It came from Halper.

Ahhh...I was last in Cooperstown when I was 13...in 1982...I presume they didnt have the halper wags then?

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...T206Wagner.jpg

I have never seen it but I have been told that it is near mint by people that have seen it.

i stand corrected...that wags looks suh-weet!

In fkw's post Wagner #2 looks quite different in both the face and uniform than all the others -- maybe just a function of the scan?

I think that they got it around 1999.