Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>I recently purchased a T202 from buythatcard. I received the card the other day and to my horror while opening the package the card was hanging out of the holder. There was only an 1 1/2 inch piece of tape on the end of a 4 1/2 inch opening. I informed them of my concerns. I received the following reply:<br /><br />All my cards are carefully packaged. They are shipped in a top holder which <br />is taped securely and then placed in a bubble envelope. You can check my <br />feedback. Packages are sometimes mishandled by the Postal service but I <br />never received a complaint that the card was hanging out of the holder.<br /><br />If you are unhappy with the service then send the card back and i will <br />refund your money.<br /><br />Buythatcard<br /><br /><br />The reply to me is basically calling me a liar, and why in the world you would think that a refund would make me happy after this? Considering this guys are in the consignment business you would think they would take better care of packaging and customer service. <br /><br />I will definitely think twice about bidding on there auctions again, and plan on leaving a neutral or negative for the transaction.<br /><br />Lee<br />

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Jimi</b><p>I just got a T222 from them yesterday and, just like in the past, they did a good job with the packaging, timeliness, and communication. Just my two cents. They've done a lot of business, though, so a mishap is bound to happen sooner or later. Sorry for what happened, Lee.<br><br>Jimi

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Lee, I think you're lucky to get your money refunded fully when clearly the seller believes he did nothing wrong. I think you'd be surprised at how many ebay sellers would tell you that you're either a) getting just a partial refund or b) getting nothing.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>John Harrell</b><p>I've had numerous transactions with buythatcard with no problems. Always well packed and fast delivery. Sorry to hear about your experience.<br /><br />John

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Alan U</b><p>Lee, I think that the response can be taken another way, to me it looks like he's just saying that it rare that something like that would happen and that he will refund your $$. It might not be worded the best and does not include an apology, but the offer of the refund is the most important thing.<br /><br />-Alan

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>You want an admission of guilt?.. A rare event in this egotistical hobby. Take the refund and buy elsewhere.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>DaveW</b><p> I've bought many items from this seller over the years and<br />have never had a problem. I consider him to be one of the<br />good guys that sells on EBay. He might have been having a<br />bad day or just made a dumb mistake while packaging your item.<br />If you're happy with the card, just let it go. If not, get a<br />refund and move on. Life's too short to hold a grudge over<br />something like this.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Randy Trierweiler</b><p>I've never dealt with this seller, so I looked up his feedback. He's had over 35,000 total transactions and only 1 negative in the last year. I would have a hard time leaving a negative when the seller offered a refund. What would make you happy if a refund wouldn't?

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>The seller sounds like a real sumbitch. Can you give him two negs?

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Have had several transactions with this seller and they have all been excellent. Maybe he was sloppy here, maybe not, but he's offering a refund. What more can he do?

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Jim Frey</b><p>I've have had many transactions with this seller--never any type of problem.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Kenneth A. Cohen</b><p>It never ceases to amaze me how casual some folks are when it comes to screwing with another man's living. One of my pet peeves!

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Rick McQuillan</b><p>I have bought from him and never had a problem. Nice cards, good service, packed well. He will take care of you if you have a problem.<br /><br />Rick

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Tim Sanders</b><p>You never stated the card was damaged....was it? If so send it back, do as you feel in regards to feedback and get the refund.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>I've read between the lines on the seller's response a few times, and I continue to miss the accusation of Lee being a liar. And honestly, as a seller, if I offer someone a complete refund and that doesn't make him or her happy, what more can I do? I guess I'll remember to apologize profusely if a situation like this ever arises.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I did a four figure deal with the seller today. Always top notch imo.....highly recommended. regards

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Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>I have had numerous buying and selling experiences with Howie...all positive.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p> Ya know how the newscasters interview the next-door neighbors of the serial killer?, "He was always friendly to us.", "He helped find my cat once." and "I saw him at church just last Sunday." <br /> Well, don't listen to the lemmings Lee. You and I know It was just a matter of time before this guy lost it!

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Oh boy. I hope this thread doesn't become Blog-worthy.

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Posted By: <b>Rawn Hill</b><p>I have made two purchases from this seller and have been pleased with both transactions.<br /><br />Rawn

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Posted By: <b>DMcD</b><p>Feedback I left the guy for a Zeenut I bought last spring: "QUICK receipt/card as described/careful pkg/A good guy to buy vintage cards from." The guy runs good auctions. Either he or a helper might have goofed up. Cut him some slack. There are alot worse sellers out there.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>richie</b><p>He is a great seller. Why would you leave him a negative if he wants to make good for it. He is offering a full refund feedback of 17533 and one NEG in a year.

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Someone brought up the question where does he call you a liar. Well this statement right here: "All my cards are carefully packaged. They are shipped in a top holder which is taped securely and then placed in a bubble envelope." When I clearly stated that it was not securely taped, I don't know what you call it but I know it doesn't say sorry that it happened in any shape or form.<br /><br />This seller obviously has good feedback but he sure handled this situation terribly. To me offering a refund is not the final it's OK to the situation. He made a mistake and when informed handles it in this manner, not impressed.<br /><br />Situations like this remind me of why I am not a fan of Paypal, great service and everything seems fine until you have a problem with them and then try to get it handled, good luck.<br /><br />For those of you that think I have too much time I my hands, I guess I don't meet up to your standards, Oh Well. <br /><br />Lee<br /><br />

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>I think that Buythatcard does a good job as a seller. I've bought from them many times. They usually show both sides of a card. Their shipping is reasonable. Cards I've received were adequately packaged.<br /><br />Still, I think Lee's problem was with the response. I think he wants to keep the card, which seems to have miraculously arrived undamaged. Emails (even what we type here) can sometimes seem terse, or rude, and that not be the intent of the sender. A response of "Oh, I'm sorry. I hope the card arrived ok even though the packaging failed. You're welcome to send it back for a full refund, including shipping, if you like. Let me know what you want. We'll be more attentive to packaging. Thanks for letting us know of this problem."<br /><br />Now that response would have kept this entire mess off of the Net54 board.<br /><br />Peace.<br /><br />FW

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>You are a good friend but I must admit, I think you are pushing the part of him calling you a liar. I do see your point and yes, he could have apologized with the refund offer. But maybe you are both right and just a minor oops happened. Obviously the card arrived the way you said, that is a fact. But how about this? The seller or helper did pack it securely with tape but while sliding it into the bubble mailer, a small piece of the tape catches the interior and the tape pulls away from the top loader. A simply possible scenerio that covers both him packing well and it arriving badly.<p><br /><br />Please don't negative him for this, he is an excellent seller and we all make mistakes (except Jeff of course). You are a good guy and I do see that the email could have been softer or more friendly. Keep the card if you like it, return it if you don't. Either or is acceptable I am sure.<br /><p><br /><br />Take care and good luck!<br />Dan Mckee

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Lee,<br /><br />I don't want to seem like I'm piling it on (that's not the intent) but... <br /><br />Email can be a little tricky to decipher when it comes to tone.<br /><br />The seller did offer a refund and he didn't call you any names or turn into a jerk by telling you to pound sand. <br /><br />I'd have been a bit surprised myself to find the card coming out of the holder but if there's no damage to the card then it's like no harm no foul. If there was damage then at least you can recoup your money.<br /><br />Hope all is well,<br /><br />Fred

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Just for the record, the card is lower grade and tough to tell if there was any extra damage to the card. I would like to think that every card highgrade or low would be treated with care in the transit. <br /><br />Frank hit the nail on the head with his response, the lack of remorse in the response is my biggest problem with the whole situation. I do not expect every transaction to be perfect but when there is a problem I would like to think that the situation will be handled professionally and not just brush it off and offer a refund. <br /><br />I have had problems in the past and most have been handled professionally and want to fit out how the situation can be solve to make both parties happy. <br /><br />My point through the whole situation is that if you are running a business and expect return business and a good rep is that you should act professionally in good and bad situations.<br /><br />Lee

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Lee, with all respect, you're pissed beause the seller had a 'lack of remorse?' He didn't commit a crime -- he simply offered you a full refund, no questions asked! <br /><br />I'm starting to think maybe it's <i>your</i> standards that are just too high. I'd hate to have to work for you! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>Judging by the majority of responses in this thread, the seller does get a lot of repeat business and has a good reputation.<br /><br />How much was the card? I'm half-tempted to mail you the amount so you can keep the card <i>and</i> get your money back.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Sounds like you're spreading the wealth around a bit, Rob. Very patriotic offer you just made.

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Now that you mention it Rob, I also received a card that I was unhappy with the packaging. I think it was around $12,500. I'll email you with my address! Thanks!<br /><br />

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>And the added bonus for you, Jim, is that along with the check you'll get a heapin' helpin' of remorse.

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>I love it hush money. I need to try this more often. Would you make the money properly and securely and offer a refund if it does not arrive in the state it originated? I hate to get my money in poor condition. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />I am waiting on another transaction that actually was initiated prior to this transaction. If that card arrives properly (which it should since it is graded) I will leave a positive for that transaction and a neutral for this transaction. To me a negative is not warranted at this point.<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Lee, <br /><br />I believe it was Lichtman who reminded us recently, that:<br /><br />"Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice. "<br />

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>For those of you that think I was stretching it to think That BUYTHatcard was calling me a &quot;liar&quot;. Here is the neutral feedback I left and the response. It reinforces the reason I left neutral feedback. Needless to say I was notified I am no longer welcome to bid on their auctions, no big deal because I had no plans of doing such a thing plus their are many upstanding sellers out their to buy from.<br><br>Poor Packaging, Card hanging out of holder. Poor Response to Problem.<br>bowlingshoegiverouterguy ( 1580 [Feedback score is 1,000 to 4,999] )<br>Nov-03-08 22:12<br><br><br> *<br> Reply by buythatcard (Nov-04-08 04:34):<br> Unlikely. Offered a full refund anyway but buyer would rather leave neutral.<br><br>Lee

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>hey Lee...upgrading the t202's?

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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>Good job, Lee. I think you showed him.

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Gee Rob, It is nice to know if I ever do business with you that I do not need to be on the best behavior and know that I will always be in the right. To each his own Rob, but I personally do not like to be treated like this. <br><br>THis is the reason that ebay has a feedback system, alot of people just don't have the balls to leave negatives and neutrals to be honest with the rest of the potential buyers out there. I like to look at feedback to see if there might be a potential problem, if don't properly it works great. If people getting the product as advertised and on time are not willing to leave that in feedback then the system is not working. I think most people that look at feedback and read the negatives and neutral and decide for themselves how important the problem is to them.<br><br>Many happy transactions Rob, <br><br>Lee

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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>Lee, <br><br>You weren't happy with the card (shipping, actually) and told the seller. He offered a full refund. You chose to keep the card. You said you were thinking of leaving a neutral or negative comment because you were unhappy with the seller's &quot;lack of remorse.&quot;<br><br>You left a neutral, then celebrated the fact.<br><br>Lee, you seem to enjoy bitching about things. That's fine. But you might want to check the whole martyr thing at the door.<br><br>Stay happy.

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Posted By: <b>Howie</b><p>I was quite surprised to see that such a big deal was made out of a loose card.<br><br>I offered the buyer a full refund with no questions asked. What more would a buyer want if there was a problem with a transaction.<br><br>I've been mailing out over 7,000 cards a year over the last 5 years. I have had a few incidents in which the card got lost or damaged. I have always refunded the money with no questions asked. The buyers reaction were always favorable.<br><br>Once in a blue moon, a buyer comes along who wants more than a refund. I don't know what more this buyer wants. The fact that I offered a full refund was enough to say that I am willing to work it out. I run a succesfull business and I work with my buyers. My 30,000 feedbacks will tell the story.<br><br>I want to thank those who came to my defense. Most of my customers are very pleasant.<br><br>I don't see anywhere in the email where I refer to this guy as a liar. I simply stated the facts. My tone might sound stern but its in response to his email as follows:<br><br>&quot;I was very dissapointed in the the arrival of this card. It was poorly packed, it was hanging out the end of the holder. A good thing the card was lower grade and can't tell if it did any more damage. I would think that you would take better care of the shipping considering that you are taking consignments. It certainly is not very good advertising.<br><br>Very Dissapointed,&quot;<br><br><br>

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>The buyer in this situation mis understood you it appears.<br><br><br>The written word can be taken in different ways.<br><br><br>For some reason he was stuck on the fact that you felt he was not telling you <br>the truth.<br><br><br>IMO it was possible for someone to take it that way, however, at the same time <br>I probably would have not.<br><br> <br>Steve

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Posted By: <b>Eric Pugh</b><p>A small percentage of customers will find fault in the seller no matter what the circumstance - especially when given any reason at all to make mountains out of molehills. Customers like this should be &quot;fired&quot; on an annual basis. Life is too short.<br><br>not only is buyer completely out of line, but going on website to trash this seller's name is really the buyer just showing his ass to us all and nothing more. Buyer here is totally wrong. Seller here is dealing with one of those &quot;inevitable&quot; pain-in-the-ass customers. <br><br>I wonder what it is in the DNA of some people to be so unreasonable.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Andrew Saboley</b><p>Bidder blocked for life.

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Posted By: <b>Miguel Danielson</b><p>I'm mostly a lurker here, but I've sold enough things on eBay and butted heads against enough silly people to be pretty irked by this situation. Buyer here is clearly in the wrong, as evidenced by the opinions of more than a handful respected board members, and yet he continues to be unable to admit that he is wrong. Now, this would be all fine and dandy, but when you come to the forum here to air grievances, I think you ought to be willing to eat a little crow when the vast majority of people disagree that any grievance is really necessary.<br><br>People should have enough respect for themselves and for others to say, &quot;hey, you know what, I thought I had a point there, but it looks like nobody but me thinks so, so I guess I might be wrong on this one -- my bad.&quot; Is it really that hard?

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>Ironically, I had an &quot;issue&quot; with Lee 4 or 5 years ago when I was first a member on here. I came on here, aired my grievence in a way I shouldn't have and the majority of the people felt I was in the wrong. After calming down and thinking about the situation, I realized How wrong I was. I wrote a lengthy apology which was deleted for some reason. I then decided to call and personally apologize for the way I had acted. Sadly, he wouldn't even take my call to accept the apology. It ended there. I don't believe there is a single person who can not overreact to things at times and email or public forums are not the best way to communicate with someone about a problem. They can be easily misunderstood. Did buythat card handle the situation perfectly? No. One of the first things they teach in customer service is to first apologize for a mistake which he didn't do, but he did offer a full refund. It seems that two rational people should be able to talk on the phone or face to face and work misunderstandings out. Sadly, many prefer to hold grudges and believe they could not have possibly contibuted to the situation at all.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I can understand where Lee is coming from on this, though due to his offer of a full refund, i would not have given a neutral. The seller just exemplified poor business/ customer relation skills in his communications with Lee. I think he did imply that Lee lied, but basically said that even though I think you are lying, I will give you a full refund to satisfy you. The accusation showed a lack of tact, but did not materially harm Lee. THus, I would not have given a neg or neutral. Just my .02.<br>JimB

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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p><i>I think he did imply that Lee lied, but basically said that even though I think you are lying, I will give you a full refund to satisfy you.</i><br><br>I <i>really</i> have to get one of those secret decoder rings.

Poor Response Buythatcard
 

Posted By: <b>Dennis</b><p>now, maybe the seller should thank lee for all this free advertising? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>i know lee, he's usually the more level-headed behren <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"><br><br>seller's tone in his reply is more along the line of annoyance rather than apologetic...like no way he could've made the mistake, with his thousands of +++++ and and careful packaging. sometime people are looking for more than just money being thrown at them.