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T218 series breakdown and ad backs
Posted By: <b>Bryon</b><p><br>I posted this over on the CU boards last week, but wanted to throw it out here as well. And this may be old news to some, but it was a revelation to me when I recently found a pattern in the T218 cards that seems to break the set into three groups... groups that I suspect are the three different series in which the cards were issued... with 53 cards in the 1st, 49 cards in the 2nd , and 51 in the 3rd... It'd be nice if the splits matched up better with the "51 to 100" notation on the back of the Series 2 cards, but the fact that there are 153 cards in the set would seem to indicate that the issuer wasn't married to the number 50.<br><br>I believe that while Mecca ads can be found on cards from all three series, Hassan ads are only found on cards from Series 1 and 2 (a total of 102 cards). So, if you have a card with a Hassan ad and there's no "Series #2" notation on the back, it's from Series 1. All 53 cards in Series 1 with Mecca ads have the phrase "Champion Athletes and Prize Fighter Series". Mecca cards from Series 2 have the same phrase and include the "Series #2" notation. On the 51 cards in Series 3, the phrase is turned around a bit, beginning with "Series of..." Also, all but three of the cards in Series 3 (Thure Johansson, J.J. McEntee, and Edward Payson Weston) have a black border framing the image... and this series includes all the golfers, bowlers, billiards players and aviators plus 24 athletes and boxers. And it seems pretty clear this is the third series because of the dates mentioned in the text. I can't find mention of any events past 1909 on Series 1 cards, there are a few 1910 references on Series 2 cards, and more on Series 3... J.B. Moisant's card notes he was killed on the last day of 1910.<br><br>Lastly, after going through all the scans I could find, I'm pretty confident that Tolstoi backs exist only on Series 2 cards, though they don't have the "Series #2" notation like their Mecca and Hassan parallels.<br><br>So, the checklists by series would be...<br><br><br>Series 1<br><br>Platt Adams<br>Dan Ahearne<br>Abe Attell<br>Chas. J. Bacon Jr<br>Sailor Burke<br>Robert Cloughen<br>Tom Collins<br>Johnny Coulon<br>James Crowley<br>C.M. Daniels (seated)<br>Jem Driscoll<br>Jack Eller<br>Ray Ewry<br>John Flanagan (full length)<br>R.E. Frizelle<br>Jimmy Gardner<br>S.P. Gilles<br>Andrew Glarner<br>Budd Goodwin<br>H.J. Handy<br>Harry Hillman<br>Battling Hurley<br>Dick Hyland<br>Frank C. Irons<br>James J. Jeffries<br>Jack Johnson (side)<br>Stanley Ketchell<br>Bert Keyes<br>Walter Lee<br>Harry Lewis<br>Willie Lewis<br>Lou Manley<br>Johnny Marto<br>Packey McFarland<br>Phil McGovern<br>M.J. McGrath<br>Owen Moran<br>Tommy Murphy<br>Battling Nelson<br>Thomas O'Callaghan<br>Paul PIlgrim<br>Harry Porter<br>W.C. Robbins<br>Lawson Robertson<br>Melvin W. Sheppard (side)<br>Martin Sheridan<br>Jim Stewart<br>Jack Twin Sullivan<br>Mike Twin Sullivan<br>C.D. Trubenbach<br>Eddie Walsh<br>Billy West<br>Ad Wolgast<br><br>Series 2<br><br>Patsy Brannigan<br>Knock-out Brown<br>Walter Bursch<br>Young Corbett<br>Leach Cross<br>C.M. Daniels (head to waist)<br>Young Donahoe<br>W.C. Fielding<br>John Flanagan (head to waist)<br>Joe Gans<br>George Gardiner<br>H.E. Gissing<br>Abe Goodman<br>Jack Goodman<br>Charley Griffin<br>J.L. Hartranft<br>Harry Haywood Jr.<br>Joe Jeanette<br>James Jeffries<br>Harry Jensen<br>Jack Johnson (front)<br>Joseph Jordan<br>Al Kaufman<br>W.J. Keating<br>W.J. Kramer<br>Sam Langford<br>Young Loughrey<br>Emilo Lunghi<br>Honey Mellody<br>Frankie Neil<br>Fighting Dick Nelson<br>Young Nitchie<br>Smythe Northridge<br>George J. Obermeyer<br>Philadelphia Jack O'Brien<br>Tommy O'Keefe<br>Billy Papke<br>Frank Riley<br>J.A. Ruddy<br>UNK Russell<br>Harry Sedley Jr.<br>Melvin W. Sheppard (front)<br>C.C. Steinert<br>Harry Stone<br>James P. Sullivan<br>Clarence B. Tippett<br>Jimmy Walsh<br>R.P. Williams<br>Harold A. Wilson<br><br>Series 3<br><br>Matty Baldwin<br>Harry Cline<br>Frankie Conley<br>Albert Cutler (playing)<br>Albert Cutler (portrait)<br>John Daly<br>Alfredo De Oro<br>Al Delmont<br>Calvin Demarest<br>Dave Deshler<br>Findlay Douglas<br>Alex Dunbar<br>Charles Eyton<br>Charles K. Hamilton<br>Johnny Hayes<br>William Heins<br>F. Herreshoff<br>Jack Hobens<br>Hans Holmer<br>Willie Hoppe(playing)<br>Willie Hoppe (portrait)<br>Arch Hoxsey<br>Thomas Hueston<br>Thure Johansson<br>Lee R. Johns<br>Ralph Johnstone<br>Jerome Keogh<br>Abel Kiviat<br>Frank Klaus<br>Patsey Kline<br>Gusta Ljungstrom<br>George Low<br>J.J. McEntee<br>Fred Meadows<br>J.B. Moisant<br>Ora Morningstar (playing)<br>Ora Morningstar (portrait)<br>Gil Nicholls<br>Tommy O'Toole<br>James Rector<br>Glenn Riddell<br>Percy Sellen<br>Alex Smith<br>Johnny Summers (seated)<br>Johnny Summers (standing)<br>George Sutton (playing)<br>George Sutton (portrait)<br>E.J. Sweeney<br>Fred Welsh<br>Cowboy Charles Weston<br>Edward Payson Weston<br><br>So, there it is. If anyone has additional info on this, I'd love to hear it.<br><br>
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T218 series breakdown and ad backs
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>I have been working on a detailed checklist of the cards with some other collectors for a while now. <br><br>W/r/t Johnson, I have and have seen Johnson in both poses in both series. I own a Johnson front and a Johnson side both with Mecca series 2 backs. I also own a number of Tolstoi back Johnsons, all of which are front pose. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
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T218 series breakdown and ad backs
Posted By: <b>Bryon</b><p><br>Well, those Johnson cards are a real problem for my theory, except for the Tolstoi thing.... Hmmm. Back to the drawing board, I guess.<br><br>I'd love to see your checklist on this.<br><br>
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T218 series breakdown and ad backs
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>I will post a link to it. <br><br>In the meantime, does your list represent actual cards you've checklisted? <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
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T218 series breakdown and ad backs
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Mike Sullivan is available as a Tolstoi card and in series 1 and series 2. <br><br>Both Summers are available as Mecca Series 1, as is Jimmy Walsh, Matty Baldwin, <br><br>Gans is available in both series and in Tolstoi.<br><br>Those are off the top of my head; I'm sure there are more. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
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T218 series breakdown and ad backs
Posted By: <b>Bryon</b><p><br>Yeah, I put my checklist together by going through every card of my own and every back scan I could find to make sure I couldn't find one that blew the pattern. (One complete set on the PSA registry includes back scans on all the cards.) But obviously you have a number of cards that don't fit my mold... I'm particularly surprised to hear that you have a Matty Baldwin that doesn't have the "Series of..." phrase on the back. Could you post a scan that one for me? I'd really appreciate it.<br><br>
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T218 series breakdown and ad backs
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>I will have to dig out the card and scan it. May take a few days.<br><br>Do you have yours broken down by mfg as well as series? I am cataloging them that way. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
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T218 series breakdown and ad backs
Posted By: <b>DaveW</b><p> Very interesting. Also, how do the C52 cards fit in? They are basically<br>the T218 cards but with numbers and no ad back. All the ones I have are in<br>your Series 1. Does anybody have the complete list of those cards? It might<br>be a good place to start since they were probably just one series of T218s<br>that were sent off to the Imperial Tobacco Co.<br>- Dave<br>
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T218 series breakdown and ad backs
Posted By: <b>Bryon</b><p><br>The PSA population report of C52s includes cards from all three series of my hypothosized and apparently inaccurate T218 breakdown. They list numbers for the individual cards from 1 through 50 AND nos. 69, 88 and 96. Weird. Someone also posted a No. 63 (Nicholls) on the CU boards not long ago.<br><br><br><br>From PSA....<br><br><br><br>1Jack Johnson<br><br>2James J. Jeffries<br><br>3Clarence B. Tippett<br><br>4James P. Sullivan<br><br>5Walter Bursch <br><br>6Unk Russell<br><br>7Frank Riley <br><br>8H.E. Gissing <br><br>9James Crowley <br><br>10S.P. Gilles <br><br>11Andrew Glarner<br><br>12Battling Hurley <br><br>13Melvin W. Sheppard <br><br>14Lou Manley<br><br>15Ray C. Ewry<br><br>16Frank C. Irons <br><br>17Jim Stewart<br><br>18Robert Cloughen<br><br>19W.C. Robbins<br><br>20Thomas O'callaghan <br><br>21Harry Hillman<br><br>22Martin Sheridan<br><br>23C.M. Daniels <br><br>24Johnny Coulon<br><br>25Platt Adams<br><br>26George J. Obermeyer<br><br>27Tom Collins <br><br>28Lawson Robertson<br><br>29Paul Pilgrim<br><br>30Jack Sullivan <br><br>31Jack Eller<br><br>32John Flanagan <br><br>33Emilo Lunghi <br><br>34Jem Driscoll <br><br>35Eddie Walsh<br><br>36Richard Frizelle <br><br>37Chas J. Bacon Jr.<br><br>38Dan Ahearne<br><br>39Owen Moran <br><br>40Willie Lewis <br><br>41Billy West<br><br>42Johnny Marto <br><br>43Jimmy Gardner<br><br>44Harry Lewis<br><br>45Stanley Ketchell<br><br>46Phil Mcgovern <br><br>47Walter Lee <br><br>48Abe Attell<br><br>49Sailor Burke<br><br>50Jimmy Walsh<br><br>69Frank Klaus <br><br>88Harry Cline<br><br>96William Heins<br><br><br><br>
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T218 series breakdown and ad backs
Posted By: <b>DaveW</b><p> That's strange. Most of the cards you list match my list except I have<br>#3 as Tommy Murphy, #8 as Packy McFarland and #33 as MJ McGrath. I wonder<br>if the PSA list is wrong or if they have some duplicate numbers. Where is<br>Boxingcardman when you need him?<br>- Dave<br>
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T218 series breakdown and ad backs
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Well, not. But I can confirm Jack Johnson as #1; I have one. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
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T218 Request for Checklist
I wanted to dredge up this old post, because one of our members (Boxingcardman) mentioned having a checklist for the T218's. I have a "set" that's a mixture of Hassan and Mecca backs. I was just wondering what the checklist for these actually looks like, and whether I just have parts of two different sets mixed together or if I have a set?
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T218s
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- Dave |
I've got a spreadsheet with the backs listed that I have in my set, does anyone else have the same? would be easy to consolidate it to see what is out there
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I can confirm these cards as existing:
Mecca, Fact. 649 Attell Mecca, Fact. 649 Baldwin, Matty Hassan II, fact. 649 Brannigan, Patsy Mecca II, Fact. 649 Brown Mecca, Fact. 30 Burke Hassan, fact. 649 Coulon Mecca, Fact. 30 Coulon Mecca II, Fact. 649 Cross Hassan II, fact. 649 Donahoe Mecca, Fact. 649 Driscoll Mecca, Fact. 649 Gans Mecce II, Fact. 649 Gans Hassan, Fact. 649 Gardner Hassan, Fact. 30 Gardiner, Geo. Mecca II, Fact. 649 Goodman, Abe Mecca II, Fact. 30 Goodman, Jack Mecca II, Fact. 649 Griffin, Charley Mecca, fact 649 Hurley Mecca, Fact. 30 Hyland Mecca II, fact. 649 Jeannette Mecca Jeffries fighting Mecca II, Fact. 30 Jeffries-portrait Mecca II, Fact. 649 Johnson-front Mecca II, Fact. 649 Johnson-side Mecca II, Fact. 649 Kaufman Mecca, Fact. 649 Ketchell Mecca, Fact. 649 Keyes Mecca, Fact. 30 Kline Mecca II, Fact. 649 Langford Mecca, Fact. 649 Lewis, Harry Hassan, fact. 649 Lewis, Willie Mecca II, Fact. 649 Loughrey Hassah, Fact. 30 Marto Hassan, fact. 649 McFarland Mecca, Fact. 649 McGovern Mecca II, Fact. 649 Mellody Mecca, fact. 649 Murphy Mecca II, Fact. 649 Neil Hassan, Fact. 649 Nelson, Battling Mecca II, Fact. 30 Nelson, Fighting Dick Mecca II, Fact. 30 Nitchie Mecca, Fact. 649 O'Brien Mecca, Fact. 649 O'Toole Hassan II, fact. 649 Papke Mecca II, Fact. 649 Russell Mecca II, Fact. 649 Stone Mecca, Fact. 649 Sullivan, Jack "Twin" Hassan, Fact. 30 Sullivan, Mike (Twin) Mecca, Fact. 649 Summers-bag Mecca, fact. 30 Summers-rowing Mecca, fact. 30 Walsh, Eddie Mecca, Fact. 649 Walsh. Jimmy Mecca, Fact. 30 Welsh, Fred Mecca, Fact. 649 West Mecca, Fact. 649 Wolgast Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Brown Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Corbett Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Donahoe Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Gans Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Gardiner, Geo. Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Goodman, Abe Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Goodman, Jack Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Griffin Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Jeannette Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Jeffries portrait Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Johnson-front Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Kaufman Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Langford Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Mellody Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Nelson, Fighting Dick Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Nitchie Tolstoi, Fact. 30 O'Keefe Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Papke Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Stone Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Sullivan, Mike (Twin) Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Walsh. Jimmy Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Hartranft Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Sheppard Tolstoi, Fact. 30 Williams |
Anthony and Adam,
Thanks for replying. Maybe if we all combine our data we can figure out how all these backs fit together. Anthony - I do have a list of all the cards I own as well as many I've seen on EBay or other sites. I'd love to exchange lists with you sometime. Adam - I've added all your data to my list and most of it seems to fit pretty well. Up to now, I've looked at 1000s of cards and never seen any that had both a Mecca and Mecca II back, but 4 of your cards would break that pattern (Gans, Johnson (side view), O'Brien and Walsh). Could you check those again and verify them? I'm sure it's possible since there are cards that have both Hassan and Hassan II backs. With 153 cards and several back variations, you'd have to look at a lot of cards to get the whole picture. I'm also taking data on the C52 set and the Tolstoi backs. It looks like only cards with Mecca II backs are in the Tolstoi set (so far). If you guys are interested in what else I've found so far, I'd be happy to share. Thanks, - Dave |
All of mine are correct.
My Gans and Walsh are Mecca I and also Tolstoi http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...ans%202009.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...lsh%202009.jpg |
Thanks Adam for confirming. I believe that the OP was correct that the Tolstoi cards only came from the Mecca II series (Gans, Walsh, Johnson, O'Brien and MSullivan all seem to be in both Mecca series).
- Dave |
I would like to thank everyone for replying. For a while there I didn't think anyone was interested in this thread! I had the list that's in the guides, but that didn't give this level of detail. Thanks and I'll have to look at mine and see if they will add any info. I'm sure I don't have any Tolstoi backs, just Mecca and Hassan.
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Anthony - I'd still like to get a copy of your spreadsheet to consolidate with mine. Of course, I'd also be happy to send you my spreadsheet if you want. I don't keep track of which factory they are from, just the back types. - Dave
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Dave- pm me your email and I"ll send it to you tonite.
I put factories on there as well, figuring more info is better than less, but it's not critical. |
If anyone would like a spreadsheet of this set to fill in on what backs they have please pm your email (or email me at griffinscards@yahoo.com) and I'll send it out.
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Thanks Anthony - email sent.
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Thanks guys - great work and would love to jump in. I've got maybe 500 or so T218s, along with a few dozen C52s, so I'll be happy to help if I can...
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Scott,
Thanks for joining in. Your data would be greatly appreciated. If you give me your email address, I'll send you my spreadsheet with all the T218 and C52 data I have and you can see what you've got that is not already there. I'm really interested in your C52 cards. Right now, it looks like all the C52s numbered between 1 and 50 come from the Mecca series 1 cards with the "Champion Athlete ..." backs and all of the C52s with numbers between 50 and 100 come from the Mecca cards with the "Series of Champion ..." backs. - Dave PM sent with my email address |
Thanks to all who have shared their data with me (especially Scott S) - this is what is so great about this site! I'm getting pretty close to understanding this set, but I need a little more help. If you have any of the following cards, could you please let me know (a scan would be great, but not absolutely needed)?
T218: Johnny Hayes or Gusta Ljungstrom with "Series of Champion Athletes & Prize Fighters" on the back (not just "Series of Champion Athletes") Any Hassan back of H.J. Handy A Mecca or Hassan (no Series 2 designation) or C52 of Lunghi or James P Sullivan A Hassan (no Series 2 designation) back of Joe Gans or Jack O'Brien A Tolstoi back of Jack Johnson (side view, green) Also any C52 card with a number above 50 I'll be happy to share all of my data with anybody that wants it, just PM me. Thanks, - Dave |
I went through my set, and I didn't have any of the variations you were looking for. Drats!
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C-52's and Hassan's
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Dave,
Here's a few you asked about. |
Thanks
Thanks for looking through your cards and for the scans. I'll add them to the known cards spreadsheet.
As a reward, here's an interesting thing I discovered about one of the cards in the T218 set. George Sutton was a famous billiards player of the day and was pictured playing pool on one card, but in real life he had no hands! He lost them both just below the elbows in a sawmill accident when he was 8 years old - but on the card he is pictured with hands. - Dave http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...tton_front.gif |
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Interesting about Sutton, Dave. I just searched and saw the same thing - here is a picture of the handless wonder. One possible thought - this is "George H. Sutton" of billiards fame - apparently there was a "George F. Sutton" who was known in the billiards world then - any chance the T218's feature the other George Sutton - you know, the one with hands?
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Scott - You may be correct. It's hard to believe that there were 2 George Suttons playing in the 1910 era, but it's even harder to believe that they missed the fact that the one was handless. The picture also looks more like George F Sutton. I still think that it's amazing that a guy with no hands could get to be a top flight billiards player. Good catch.
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OK - I think I've finally collected enough data to make some observations about the T218 cards. There are 153 cards in this set, so it would be nice if they split evenly into 3 groups of 51 cards. I think they do! Here's what I see so far:
Group 1 (51 cards) - These cards come with only a Mecca 1 and Hassan 1 back. All of the Mecca cards say "Champion Athlete and Prize Fighter Series" and none of the cards has the Series #2 designation. Group 2 (51 cards) - These cards all have both Mecca Series 2 and Hassan Series 2 backs. The Mecca cards all say "Champion Athlete and Prize Fighter Series" as well. For some unknown reason, 21 of these cards also come with a Hassan 1 back (but no Mecca 1 back) and 6 other cards come with all 4 backs. All of the Tolstoi cards come from this group. I've found that there are 50 Tolstoi cards (the 49 listed in the original post plus Mike Sullivan). Only the green Jack Johnson card is missing (anybody out there got one?). Group 3 (51 cards) - These cards all have a Mecca back (no series #2) but they all say "Series of Champion ..." instead of the "Champion Athlete ..." phrase that is on the Group 1 and Group 2 cards. The 11 track guys in this group have 2 different backs. The 4 aviators and 11 track guys have "Series of Champion Athletes" backs. The same 11 track guys and the 11 boxers in this group have "Series of Champion Athletes and Prize Fighters" backs. So, if you really wanted a complete set with all the backs, you would need close to 300 cards. I'm still looking for a handful of cards (see a previous post of mine), so if you have any of those please let me know. Thanks for all the help! - Dave |
Jack Johnson - tolstoi
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How about this one!
Enjoy.... |
Thanks, but thats the known Johnson Tolstoi with the blue background. I'm looking for the green background Johnson with a Tolstoi back. Maybe it was never issued since they already had a Jack Johnson card in the set. By the way, that's a great looking card - I love that card of Jack Johnson.
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I have never seen a Johnson green w/Tolstoi back. I have seen:
Johnson green: Mecca, Mecca 2, Hassan, Hassan 2 Johnson blue: Mecca, Mecca 2, Hassan, Hassan 2, Tolstoi |
T218 Tommy O'Keefe in two series?
I have a collection of these Champions cards, and have found two Tommy O'Keefe cards with identical front and back, except that one has the series #2 writing on the back, and one does not. Could this be a printing error that would make these more valuable than usual?
The above list shows that Tommy O'Keefe should be in Series #2. Thanks. |
Monsieur LeBear,
The O'Keefe card is in Group #2, so it should come with a Mecca Series #2 back, a Hassan Series #2 back and a Hassan no series back (but only from Factory 30). If your card has a Mecca no series back or a Hassan no series back from Factory 649, I'd love to see it. As far as value, there is no real monetary difference in the backs (unless it has a Tolstoi back), since nobody but me really cares. - Dave |
T-218 discussion
Greetings fellow cardboard enthusiasts,
I've been putting together a "master set" (all back, all factories, all variations) of these lovelies for quite some time now and think I can agree with Dave on most of his findings. I noted that an earlier post attempted to identify the Canadian counterpart from Imperial Tobacco and though I still need some information I believe I have a more complete list. I have identified at least (9) numerical entries that have a second card, interestingly between 1 and 50. Here is that list: C-52 Imperial Tobacco Checklist (T-218 Canadian) 1 Jack Johnson BOX 2 James Jefferies BOX 3a Clarence B. Tippett TRK 3b Tommy Murphy BOX 4a James P. Sullivan TRK 4b Dick Hyland BOX 5a Walter Bursch TRK 5b Ad Wolgast BOX 6a Budd Goodwin TRK 6b Unk Russell BOX 7a Frank Riley TRK 7b Battling Nelson BOX 8a H.E. Gissing TRK 8b Packy McFarland BOX 9 James Crowley TRK 10 S.P. Gilles TRK 11 Andrew Glarner TRK 12 Battling Hurley BOX 13 Melvin W. Sheppard (side face view) TRK 14 Lou Manley TRK 15 Ray C. Ewry TRK 16 Frank C. Irons TRK 17 Jim Stewart BOX 18 Robert Cloughen TRK 19 W.C. Robbins TRK 20 Thomas O'Callaghan TRK 21 Harry Hillman TRK 22 Martin Sheridan TRK 23 C.M. Daniels (seated) TRK 24 Johhny Coulon BOX 25 Platt Adams TRK 26a Geo. J. Obermeyer TRK 26b Harry Porter TRK 27 Tom Collins TRK 28 Lawson Robertson TRK 29 Paul Pilgrim TRK 30 Jack "Twin" Sullivan BOX 31 Jack Eller TRK 32 John Flanagan (full lgth) TRK 33a Emilo Lunghi TRK 33b M.J. McGrath TRK 34 Jem Driscoll BOX 35 Eddie Walsh BOX 36 Richard Frizelle TRK 37 Chas. J. Bacon Jr. TRK 38 Dan Ahearne TRK 39 Owen Moran BOX 40 Willie Lewis BOX 41 Billy West BOX 42 Johnny Marto BOX 43 Jimmy Gardiner BOX 44 Harry Lewis BOX 45 Stanley Ketchell BOX 46 Phil McGovern BOX 47 Walter Lee TRK 48 Abe Attell BOX 49 Sailor Burke BOX 50a Bert Keyes BOX 50b Jimmy Walsh BOX 51 Dave Deshler BOX 52 Fred Welsh BOX 53 Matty Baldwin BOX 54 Gusta Ljungstrom TRK 55 Johnny Hayes TRK 56 Ralph Johnstone AVI 57 J.B.Moisant AVI 58 Arch Hoxey AVI 59 Chas. K. Hamilton AVI 60 ??? 61 Alex Smith GOLF 62 Findlay Douglas GOLF 63 Gil Nicholls GOLF 64 ??? 65 Charles Eyton BOX 66 Al Delmaont BOX 67 Patsey Kline BOX 68 Frankie Conley BOX 69 Frank Klaus BOX 70 Tommy O'Toole BOX 71 Johnny Summers (sitting) BOX 72 Johnny Summers (standing) BOX 73 Thure Johansson TRK 74 Abel Kiviat TRK 75 E.J. Sweeney TRK 76 Percy Sellen TRK 77 J. J. McEntee TRK 78 Hans Holmer TRK 79 Edward P Weston TRK 80 Fred Meadows TRK 81 John Daly (port) POOL 82 ??? 83 Willie Hoppe (portrait) POOL 84 George Sutton (F) POOL 85 ??? 86 ??? 87 James Rector TRK 88 Harry Cline POOL 89 ??? 90 Thomas Hueston POOL 91 ??? 92 George Sutton (Full) POOL 93 Ora Morningstar (F) POOL 94 Albert Cutler (F) POOL 95 Albert Cutler (port) POOL 96 William Heins BOWL 97 Calvin Demarest POOL 98 Alex Dunbar BOWL 99 Glenn Riddell BOWL 100 R. Johns (F) BOWL Any additional info would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!! |
Mark - Nice to have you join us here. Somebody just sold a group of 64 of these cards on EBay, so I can fill in some of the missing numbers for you.
64 - Jerome Keogh 85 - George Low 86 - Jack Hobens 89 - Willie Hoppe (playing) - Dave |
Quote:
I bought that group of the 64 C52's on eBay last week, and got them in hand yesterday. Some of the backs weren't scanned in the listing, so I can review when I get home to see if i can fill in any of the other blanks as well! Scott |
Nice pickup Scott! I talked to the seller and got scans of the rest of the cards before the auction, so I doubt that you will find anything new. If you (or anybody else) wants a copy of my latest spreadsheet, I'll be happy to send it to you. I've updated it with all the factory numbers, error cards, etc. There are over 600 front/back/factory combos and I only have about 15 left that I need to verify.
- Dave |
C-52 info
Well thanks for the welcome and the information Dave and Scott. Thanks to your help only (3) to figure out #60, 82 & 91 and continue to keep my eyes out for double printed numbers in the early series. My gut tells me the MIA numbers will be; Fred Herreshoff GOLF, Alfredo de Oro POOL & Charles Weston POOL - just a hunch as they are the only golfers and billiard players not yet represented.
Since you mentioned a lot that recently sold I took a peek to see what was out there on evil Bay and noted your postings Scott. Though I have nearly 600 T-218's in my master collection I still need about 60 cards in the Imperial Tobacco set with the Boxers, Smith, Tippett, Riley & O'Callaghan on my list. I may take a stab at the Boxers and Golfer but am less likely to go for the larger lot that would result in plenty of dupes. Speaking of dupes I have hundreds of T-218's available if anyone is interested - I mostly like to trade (I'm an OBC & VCT member) and I'm still searching for a few "commons" for my Master set. Filling out the 30 or so Tolstoi's I still need is more likely to consume the remainder of my time on earth, but I'm shooting for another 40 - 50 years so it could be possible (especially if I hit the lottery). Thanks again gentlemen - I hope my initial listing helped you fellas out and I appreciate your assistance as I near closer to completion of the "fact finding" mission I've been on for quite some time now - BE WELL!!!! |
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I was fortunate enough recently to pick up most of the remaining cards I needed for my C52 set, so I can fill in the blanks on the last three numbers from Mark's list above.
Mark was right about his speculations on #'s 60, 82 and 91 - as you can see from the scans below, they are Herreshoff, Weston and De Oro. |
Wow Scott - nice job! How do you keep finding these cards? You must have people watching every antique store in Canada! So now we have accounted for all the numbers from 1 to 100 with 9 known numbers that have 2 cards (numbers 3,4,5,6,7,8,26,33 and 50). Do we think all the low numbers (1 thru 50) have 2 cards? I recently found a C52 of Fielding. Unfortunately, it's missing some paper on the back where the number should be, but it's clearly a C52. Any idea what number it is?
- Dave |
Hi Dave,
I don't have a C52 Fielding, so I'm not sure about the number on that one. I'd be really surprised if the whole first 50 card series has multiple cards for each number though; my 100 or so cards were gathered independent from Mark's list above, and I have no overlapping cards he didn't list. So maybe Fielding is an addition to the C52 set as you have one, but that might mean there are 10-12 duplicate numbers, and not quite 50. |
Slight hijack here: I have a few extra T218 boxing Tolstois I'd be willing to trade for ones I need.
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...20SGC%2030.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...20SGC%2020.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...20SGC%2030.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...20SGC%2030.jpg |
Adam, are there are any Tolstoi boxers specifically that you're looking for? I don't have any duplicates, but potentially could swap with you if I have ones which could help you out...
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I have:
Brown Corbett Donahoe Gans Gardiner, Geo. Griffin, Charley Goodman, Jack Goodman, Abe Jeannette Jeffries portrait Johnson-front Kaufman Langford Mellody Nelson, Fighting Dick Nitchie O'Keefe Papke Stone Sullivan, Mike (Twin) Walsh, Jimmy So any others would be on the want list. I also have dupes of Stone and Johnson but unslabbed. |
Rehashing An Old Thread
Does anyone know of a definitive master checklist for the T218 series of cards? I have a bunch of Honest Long Cut backs that seem to fit the description of series one backs but are not listed on the series one list of cards at the top of this thread. I would greatly appreciate if anyone could lead me to a master checklist, or at a minimum a definitive series 1 checklist. Series two is easy (they all say Series #2 on the back) and series three are all Mecc and start with "series of champion..." on the back as opposed to the series one Meccas that say "Champion athlete and...".
Any help would be greatly appreciated! |
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