And it's in, Ortiz has been elected to the Hall
Only he is allowed to pop positive and face no repercussion in the vote. Bonds denied for the 10th time, Ortiz in. What a complete joke. Turning it off now.
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In the spirit of Meat Loaf…….2 out of 3 ain’t bad.
If you get my meaning. |
I believe the others get a second chance with the Modern committee this summer
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I'm disappointed in baseball. I'm sure Ortiz is a nice guy, but they applied a different set of standards to “Big Papi” since he is an MLB studio analyst for FOX Sports. He contributes to the network's regular season, All-Star Game and MLB Postseason coverage and I'm sure that helped him get in the hall.
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Absolutely crazy...
Totally agree, Ortiz, referred to as 'Big Sloppy' by Yankee fans gets a pass when the other guys don't... He might be the only guy that was 'mistaken' for someone else, while flirting around with the drug lords wife... Put that on his bust... |
Big papi may be HOF material...but certainly not more so than bonds/arod/clemens.
It's appalling. The whole world is upside down at the moment! |
Papi never tested positive in ALL the years after the rules were put in place. He's a deserving 1st ballot HOFer. I've never witnessed a better clutch hitter.
Having said that, I do also believe, Clemens and Bonds deserve to be in. |
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Bonds and Clemens didn’t test positive in all the years the testing was in place either. It makes zero logical sense that Ortiz and Ortiz alone is forgiven while everyone else continues to be denied. Ortiz was nowhere near as good as Bonds, Rodriguez, Clemens.
This years ballot seems to have very little to due with the 2 dominating factors of recent history: statistical performance and steroid status. Ortiz is let in for no consistent logical reason, Schilling is denied because for the first time ever people want to invoke the character clause for off field behavior (can anyone cite any single example of a player kept out of the hall for off field behavior?) to punish outspoken political views the media writers as a group hate, Vizquel has a historic plummet over his much more serious off the field allegations. Hell, how does Gary Sheffield get more votes than Alex Rodriguez? This ballot appears the result of different than normal standards and outright double standards. |
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Curt Schilling BBWAA votes 2019-20-21-22: 60.9, 70, 71.1, 58.6
For me the story is the BBWAA voters' trash treatment of Curt Schilling. Either he was qualified (close to it, finishing first in 2021 at 71.1% following years of 70% and 60.9% in 2020 and 2019, respectively) or the BBWAA votes don't amount to much. Seems like the BBWAA will punish Schilling with a lengthy wait because he's outspoken politically. The obvious HOF votes go to the BBWAA and when they miss one (like Schilling) it's due to ignorance or ignorance and bias. Haven't followed MLB since they went woke two years ago. All that's left of Baseball interest to me is its history including (to a far lesser degree) the Hall of Fame. Oh, of course, pre-2020 cards and collectibles.
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Take a step back and enjoy the moment, what an outfit, what a reaction.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/...t%20all%2Dtime). |
Schillings problem wasn't that his rants were political, it's that they targeted the guys voting on the hall of Fame. If you want to win an election, treating the electorate badly is a very poor strategy. (See, eg, both "makers and takers" and "deplorables", and note who didn't win their respective elections.) There are plenty of conservatives in the hall of Fame.
And this year in particular, his vote totals may be due, in part, to asking to be removed from the ballot. The hall declined to do so, but individual voters may have honored his wishes. |
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My thought process used to be 'keep the juicers out', but when Bud Selig, and a lot of the other managers/executives who enabled PED usage (or at least looked the other way) started going in, I figured it was a bit hypocritical to keep out only the players.
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Character clause and yet Cap Anson is still in. What a hoot!
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I do not understand the Schilling debate. I would argue that while being a jerk doesn’t help the majority of pitchers with similar records are not in the Hall see Luis Tiant, Ron Guidry, Vida Blue, Bob Welch, Dave Stewart, Bucky Walters, Orel Herschiser, Lew Burdette, Kevin Brown, Dave Key, David Cone, David Wells, Billy Pierce, Allie Reynolds, Don Newcombe and many more that I cannot think of right now.
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So Papi never did test positive? Everyone is just assuming he did? or he did....why the uproar?
I'm in Chicago so paid little attention to Big Papi and the Red Sox, and the Yankees for that matter, unless they were in the playoffs or Series. I personally always thought Frank Thomas juiced, look at his melon. And he played football, and in the 80's I'd say 75-80% of every football team juiced. And Big Frank got in. But could be completely wrong. That's always a possibility. |
There is no way Frank Thomas used steroids. He was one of the players who publicly said that he would refuse the initial survey testing so that more then 5% of the players failed and ensured that there would be widespread testing.
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I guess there is no more uproar about a career DH getting in after Edgar Martinez was elected. Personally, I don't think any DH deserves first ballot election. Defense matters. What's next . . . holders in Canton?
And what if Bonds and Clemens were elected? Would they even accept? Imagine the induction speech. Remember Enos Slaughter's opening remark? God only knows what Bonds would say. It might be the first speech to get booed. How many fellow HOFers would skip the ceremony in protest? The sanctity of the induction ceremony would be in serious jeopardy. |
[QUOTE=Collectorsince62;2189736]I guess there is no more uproar about a career DH getting in after Edgar Martinez was elected. Personally, I don't think any DH deserves first ballot election. Defense matters. What's next . . . holders in Canton?
"holders"....hahahahahahahaa!!!!!!! |
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So if there is record of this, I too am dumbfounded. How does he get in and not Clemens & Bonds???!!!!! Has any voter explained, gave reasoning, for voting him in and not the other 2? |
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I'm not sure I knew a non-QB/Kicker/Punter that wasn't juicing at every level in the 80's. I'm sure there were some, but not many. |
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I'll "Buck" the trend here, and celebrate the 2022 class with some cards.
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Quite the average group there.
Give me Bonds and Clemens over any and all of them. |
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This is the horror of the steroid era, that it’s almost impossible to prove a negative and almost everyone except maybe Derek Jeter at some point has been under suspicion by someone.
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I personally have a bigger problem with the number of Closers that have been enshrined. There are many more Closers than DHs in the Hall, and I believe the DH position is equally (if not more) important. Just my .02 |
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Regardless, he's immortalized now and deservingly so. Loved watching him dismantle the Yankees in 2004. |
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And I'm not even sure the chopped part would matter. This rule often applies outside of baseball as well. |
Curt Schilling said, “I would rather not be judged by the writers, but by the former players and historians who make up the Hall’s Era Committees. That appears to be the best route to Cooperstown.”
I believe most of us would agree with that. Like many of us who have our own individual personal views, attitudes, and justifications about the PED guys, so do the writer’s, and unfortunately, it’s only their votes that count. I believe most are smart enough to know that those players we talk about used PEDs (don't need a positive test or a smoking needle to know that), and there are many others that we don’t know about. We don’t know all who used; how much they used, and how long they used; and we will never know. People can put whatever spin they want on it, in order to justify how they see it, but we all know! With that being said, I have no issues with Ortiz being in the Hall of Fame. Except that I'm a die-hard Yankee fan, so that part hurts. |
Papi failed a test. Manfred said it might have been a false positive but that he failed a test is a fact.
If Papi was a disliked guy, like Barry Bonds, writers would've used that test to justify not voting for him. But since hes well liked, enough writers gave him the benefit of the doubt or looked the other way to vote him in. Writers have proven they cannot be fair and objective. Baseball needs a new voting system. |
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IMO, it is a Museum and it is lacking without the all-time hit leader, HR leader and Cy-Young winner as electees Lasltly, Schilling outperforms all the names others placed here by way of 3,000 K's, 3 WS, Bloody Sock and over-all post-season record. During his playing career he was regarded as a great teammate and was recognized for his volunteer work (he won a Clemente award). His post career D-bagness killed his BBWAA possibilities. |
Time to move on from this. No amount of postulating from either faction will change the following facts:
Ortiz is in the HOF Bonds is not in the HOF Clemens is not in the HOF Sosa is not in the HOF Today is a new day, let's focus on who we hate for next years vote. Get an early start as there is plenty of time for it. Personally I cannot wait until Todd Helton gets voted in. Gonna be a couple of years though. I can wait....... One thing I believe we all can agree on is this: If a person that is issued a ballot to vote for the HOF and turns in an empty ballot, they should be removed from ever voting again for any further HOF ballots. And frankly if someone cannot muster at least 5 people to vote for, they should just never be able to vote again either. IMHO |
Don't know why they even need to keep electing people. At this point just tell the story of baseball, good, bad and ugly, and leave it at that.
The Hall is such an amazing place. A shame that this debate about electing people will never end. Soon the same debate will continue about guys suspected/charged with domestic abuse or drugs and DWIs or may other things. It's not going away. Obviously Bonds, Clemens, etc. are the fall guys for an era everyone knew was taking place and looked the other way. |
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