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jverri01 - more about NASA

Posted By: jverri01Lee asked for more information on the whole NASA graded Wagner issue. I am happy to accomadate, to a point. First, I have no affiliation of ANY kind with NASA or any of "its people" (which I think is really jujst the owner, Guy Stopard). Second, I have NEVER purchased a card that was graded by NASA. EVER. The details: I have a client-base of about 2500 people, worldwide. One of these people, a man in Vermont, is often buying higher-end merchandise, and either selling it outright to me, or asking me to sell it for him, under a consignment arrangement. I have worked with this person for FIVE years, and we have trasacted several hundred items, all without incident. Our relationship is such that, we are trusting and loyal to one another. Often, he will send me a note, briefly describe a piece, and I will agree to terms with him without even seeing the piece. His assessment of condition and value are very much in synch with my own. We have established a very rote method. When he notified me that he had a graded Wagner, it did not surprise me. This guy has worked with me on an authentic Lajoie Goudey, several rare T216 pieces, a Magie error card, a Plank card, etc. When he has something for me - it is typically very high-end. We do so much business together that, we work under the terms of a general contract, which is binding, once we agree to terms on any given piece. When he notified me of the NASA Wagner, I had not seen it. I simply accepted the terms he presented me, and he specified which variation of our contract he wanted to use (each variation is slightly different. The differences are in the amount and types of advertising, the commitment levels, the time period, exclusion factors, appropriate language, etc.). This is where everything started to break down. What he did not tell me was that he had not yet seen the piece. So, before either of us had seen it (I was unaware of him not having seen it), we had agreed to terms. I was obligated to list the piece x number of times, which I did. Before the final listing had occured, and the contract ceased, I had already secured a fraud attorney and compiled a complaint through the Attorney General's office. My client had been deceived by NASA, and the result was a significant financial loss. There is not alot to say beyond that. The law suit went forward, and there was never a time that any court it was presented in did not favor my petition. Once it was established that fraud had indeed been committed, NASA did very little to try and dispute the claim. The entire suit is now in process in Canada, and U.S. legislation is being applied. I do not hold my client accountable, although we now do not transact very frequently, and when we do, it is always in person, and the terms are considerably more air-tight. The more I learned about NASA, the angrier I got. This guy spends half of his time grading clippings from magazines. Based on the evidence, the history, the business practice, and a number of liabilities that I faced personally, I felt that the right thing to do was bring suit, and attempt to shed light on his disreputable practices. Clearly, I am not perfect. I am the first to admit this. I have learned a great deal from this experience. And, although it is still an ongoing matter, I feel confident in saying that it is a very severe blow to NASA. jverri01

jverri01 - more about NASA

Posted By: Lee BehrensThanks for your response. This is the kind of information is very informative. Lee

jverri01 - more about NASA

Posted By: DavidMy thoughts are that the NASA Wagner situation was a hugh error and, irrelevant to any contract, it should not have been offered on eBay. However, it happened a while ago and I consider it water under the bridge. We have all have made big mistakes. If I had a nickel for every time I accidentally went to work without my pants on ....

jverri01 - more about NASA

Posted By: MWDavid, I agree. No contract that I know of would ever stipulate that a seller or broker be obligated to sell a fake baseball card.

jverri01 - more about NASA

Posted By: MWGotta go look up "thousands" and "impeccable" again.

jverri01 - more about NASA

Posted By: Bruce MorelandWon't PSA authenticate trimmed cards in some specific circumstances? I have seen a PSA card in a holder with "AUTH" or something like that where the grade goes. The card in question was a big dollar card, and I believe the conclusion was that it had been trimmed, but the buyer wanted it in a PSA slab anyway. bruce

jverri01 - more about NASA

Posted By: vorthian I wish this story was cohesive with the ramblings at the Full Count board some time ago; -You stated and backed the card being real. Now it's an issue of deception and fraud. << Re: I called NASA about the Wagner From: JVERRI01 Date: 4/26/01 Time: 1:01:14 PM Remote Name: 130.64.61.15 Comments Hi, Michael. I am the seller of the card you speak of. First - thank you for making your ignorance so obvious - makes it easier for me to defend myself. ...Whether you agree or disagree with their views on grading, or their accuracy in grading - you can not dispute the fact that they have graded thousands and thousands of vintage cards. This entire process is subjective anyway, "Mike". My investment in this card is signigicant. My belief that it is in fact authentic is based on a simple fact: I had the card evaluated by a close friend, who also happens to grade for a different grading company - one of the big 3, no less (No, not NASA, as clearly, they are not of the big 3). The card is real. It can NEVER be authenticated because it has been trimmed. ...I have extensive docu- mentation from NASA and independent sources which are in writing. Whoever gets this card is getting the real thing, and they are getting it for a steal. There is absolutely NO FRAUD here. ...I am simply offering a card for sale that I have invested money in previously, and would now like to liquidate. Think before you speak. And, maybe try having an open- mind. There are already too many close-minded cave men in this society. >> -Last April, the card was your "investment". [see aforementioned and the following] << Re: T206 Wagner goes begging - Item #1147913832 From: jverri01 Date: 6/1/01 Time: 1:11:39 PM Remote Name: 130.64.61.15 Comments Yes, I did contact you. And, yes, I have had offers. These offers were all lower than what I actually have invested in the card. Why is that so difficult for you to accept? And - by the way - why not use your real identity when corresponding? To use stealth identities doesn't exactly support your inference as being credible about the authenticity of vintage cards. If one is knowledgeable, it is not something that is easily hidden. Ignorance, however - is painfully obvious. Thank you for making such a fine example of it for us all. >> -In June and now, the card was "consigned". Ahh, the contradictions.

jverri01 - more about NASA

Posted By: runscott...

jverri01 - more about NASA

Posted By: Uncle Sam Yeah right! Michael Wentz,plese tell us if you have a 2500 people client base? And if you do wouldn't many of them also know and have dealings with JVerioll?? You surely would know all about his dealings with people and "big" cards et,right? There are only about 2500 people collecting vintage cards now. The rest moved on to dealing with coins because coins are hot now and cards are soft.

jverri01 - more about NASA

Posted By: Marc S....yet. There does seem to be some demand for it, but SGC and PSA have shied away from offering those services. PSA does offer those services, but rarely, and seemingly only for connected individuals.

jverri01 - more about NASA

Posted By: leonI have been round and round with SGC on "authentication only" and they have given me several explanations. My gut feeling is it is money related as to why they do not want to do it. ...best regards