NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Evanov</b><p>They say there's no such thing as bad publicity, but I don't think this is good for SGC [or GAI]. A full page blast from a major newspaper:<br /><br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.marys-corner.com/ebay/NYPOSTSGC.jpg"><br><br>Frank

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Is it just me or does this not make sense to anyone else:<br /><br />"Since the highest rating would look like a conflict of interest, Haas said, he turned to longtime friend David Forman, president of SGC, to determine whether the flaws could be fixed without hurting its authentication."<br /><br />How does it logically follow that due to a conflict of interest, he needs to have flaws removed from the card?

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>If the comments regarding "restoration" can be attributed to James Haas and not to sloppy reporting I think SGC/Forman should sue.<br />

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Gene Palmer</b><p>I agree with Matt, it makes no sense. It's sour grapes from Hass that SGC only gave it a 9 after his company called it a 10. Seems to me like the one being held "Haas"tage here is SGC.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Funny that Haas needed SGC to grade his card so that he wouldn't be accused of self-interest with regard to GAI's grade -- yet GAI, his company, is the only one that gave the card a 10. Gee, funny how that works. Perhaps he expected his 'old friend' to give him a 10, too and, when it didn't turn out that way he got angry. I can't blame Dave Forman for asking for a release before giving the card back. <br /><br />I guess since I don't collect mint Mantle cards I can't fully understand the Captain Queeg-like obsession of getting this card into a 10 holder.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Evanov</b><p><I>If the comments regarding "restoration" can be attributed to James Haas and not to sloppy reporting I think SGC/Forman should sue.</I><br /><br /><br />Absolutely; if he doesn't sue, I would view that as an indication that Haas is telling the truth. Then again, in a trial, Haas' attorneys might dredge up some of DF's previous exploits and that could get messy.<br /><br /><br /><I>I guess since I don't collect mint Mantle cards I can't fully understand the Captain Queeg-like obsession of getting this card into a 10 holder.</I><br /><br /><br />Not obsession, dollars....the difference in value between a 9 and a 10 is at least $500,000!!<br><br>Frank

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>What are Dave Foreman's alleged previous exploits?

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>in terms of circulation and public perception, the larger the potential damages GAI faces in a likely lawsuit....if they weren't in financial straits before - they will certainly disappear and owe alot of people a ton of money should legal action eventuate.<br />If this were a plan to make SGC look bad to gain some market share back, it was a terrible idea.<br /><br /><br />Daniel

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>If I had to guess, Haas is more concerned about his Mantle than GAI. After all, that one baseball card is worth a hell of a lot more than his entire stake in GAI.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>No kidding.<br />So there's a perceived conflict when your own company grades your card, but there's no perceived conflict when an "old friend" grades it. Uh huh.<br />Guess it turned out the way it was supposed to.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>James Gallo</b><p>Did anyone else notice that the caption under Forman's picture calls him an appraiser? <br /><br />Who are these reporters talking to...<br /><br />They seem to spell out what SGC does in the article, but come on people get your damn facts straight.<br /><br />Honestly IMO I don't see any problems with what I have read in regards to SGC actions.<br /><br />I would like to hear more about Formans past though....<br /><br />James G<br><br>Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>James,<br /><br />Being in the newspaper business, I can tell you that the person who writes the story and the person who writes the captions for photos (along with headlines) are almost always two different people. Not that that's an excuse for getting this wrong, and it seems that both the reporter and copy editors involved in the packaging of this story dropped the ball more than once. Just wanted to point out that a reporter can get everything 100 percent right and then have a copy editor make him or her look stupid.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>David was president of Teletrade which ran massive ads in SCD for a while. Prior to that he was a NY dealer who did auctions and shows alone and with NY dealers Gary Moser and Gerry Schwartz--two guys with an impeccable reputation <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Evanov</b><p>The name Moser sounds familiar.<img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br><br>Frank

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I think I gave my first ebay neg to him.....

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>im·pec·ca·ble Pronunciation[im-pek-uh-buhl] –adjective 1. faultless; flawless; irreproachable: impeccable manners. <br />2. not liable to sin; incapable of sin. <br />

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>Frank - please refrain from calling the NY Post a major newspaper. Those of us in New York know that it is the farthest thing from that. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.<br />Maybe they got this story straight, but the paper is a rag, with free copies frequently available from street corners.<br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>I like the Post and read it every day--have never seen it for free.<br /><br />I believe the Post now has ca greater circulation than any other paper in the NYC area including the Times.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>To each his own,,, I see it fairly often, on the East Side, with kids on street corners giving it away for free in what I believe is a desperate effort by Rupert Murdoch to increase "circulation".<br />The New York Post is last in circulation in NYC.<br />NYTimes - 1.1 million<br />Daily News - 795,000<br />NY Post - 650,000<br />(figures according to Wikipedia)<br />--<br /><br />I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Evanov</b><p>The Post's circulation is not the issue. The problem here is that a half a million people [probably a lot more] read about a shady incident which makes the Hobby look bad. Not a good way to attract new blood.<br><br>Frank

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>I have never seen the Post for free and 'wikipedia' can be written by anyone, prolly some Times guy wrote that info.<br /><br /><br />Steve

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>The circulation I was referring to is in NYC only. The Times is a "National" newspaper and gets a lot of its circulation from outside NYC.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>John Basilone</b><p><br />FWIW...the New York Post is available for sale at a supermarket I frequent in the Cleveland, Ohio area.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>I forgot that I had a copy that used to be mailed to me at Beckett, but you can be put on an e-mailing list to recieve the NY Post and that is a free service. I also get the Daily News and NY Times highlights emailed to me for free as well.<br /><br />Regards<br />Rich

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Shepherd</b><p>I've seen stacks of either the Post or Daily News for free on 14th Street - they give it out to subway riders and pedestrians along with AM New York and the Metro. Not really the issue here, just validating the fact.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>FWIW, they give away the New York Post & Daily News for free on 34th st, hearld square, everyday...<br /><br />

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>garymoser</b><p>frank since you like to mention my name on the board so much. why not give me profit on all the cards you bought from me that you are selling on ebay . include 1957 topps mint commons that i sold you for $10 probable ungraded that you are selling for thousands . if you mention my name again beinning such a close friend i will be happy to come to your office and we can reminisce about the good old days before third party gradeing . best regards gary moser. love to here from you soon. <br />leon,<br />are there any tickets available to 54 dinner at the national.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Wow--Gary Moser.<br /><br />Welcome Gary--first time I have seen you post on Net54.<br /><br />Since wwe have got you here Gary, care to give your views on the state of the hobby today?<br /><br />Jim

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Welcome to the board.....There are no tickets to the Net54 dinner...except drink tickets when you get there....It's open to all members of Net54 Vintage Baseball Card Forum....which would include you. As the time approaches I will post a thread to take RSVP's for the dinner. (probably a month or so before the National) It's imperative that whoever wants to attend RSVP. There is a great chance that folks who don't RSVP won't be allowed to come to it....Everyone that RSVP'd last year was able to attend....and I think a good time was had by all. I will issue a small word of caution though....Anyone coming there to not have a good time, or get into arguments, is not welcome. I will have Charlie B and his big friend (I forget his name) get my back <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.....best regards

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>welcome to Net 54.<br /><br />Speaking of thousands of dollars made, you sold me a large number of high-grade GAI 1955 Bowman baseball cards that were independently verified later as having been trimmed, re-glossed, or a combination of both. Are you planning on letting us all in on the secrets as to how you managed to perpetrate these alterations and get them past a professional grading company?

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p><br />ah yes...the 55 Bowman's.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Oh Oh--I'm afraid that will be a conversation ender. Unless I'm wrong this could go down as the shortest visit ever to Net 54. Well, maybe Gary will still come to the dinner.<br /><br />Don't be scared away Gary--you can answer just the questions you want to.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>garymoser</b><p>you caught me on the 1955 bowmans i split the money with mike , let me now where to send the refund checks too. will be also refund any psa graded problems . simple send your list .<br />anything else ??

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>garymoser</b><p>jim,<br />the hobby is in great shape jim . collectors like yourself make the industry a pleasure to be in .<br />then off course we have a small % of experts out there , the all seeing all knowing group . can't wait for them to open ther own grading companys and fix the hobby . sgc and psa better be careful<br />they could loss market share very quickly .

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Thank you Gary.<br />As collectors Gary, how much can we trust the grading services.<br />We hear stories about card doctors and successfully getting altered cards through the grading services. You have been around the hobby a long time--is card alteration something we should be concerned about--even if the card is graded?<br /><br />Jim

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>I went to a vintage baseball card forum and a Larry King interview broke out.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Rob,<br /><br />Its not often you get a Gary Moser visiting your board--you have to be opportunistic.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Why the warm welcome to someone whose first post here is a thinly veiled threat of violence?<br />JimB

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>He's really a teddy bear--don't worry.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Gary, what do you mean "you caught me on the 1955 bowmans i split the money with mike"?

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Jeff, Jim told Gary he doesn't have to answer any questions he doesn't want to. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Well, it's Gary's statement so I'm sure he'd want to clarify what he meant. Such an innocuous statement and all...

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />I'm pretty sure that if you're not going to lob softballs, you won't be allowed to play the game. &lt;searching for smiley face key&gt;

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>You can throw whatever pitches you want. Gary has a lot of knowledge and the board would benefit from what he says--I just think he is unlikely to be responsive to the fastball under the chin.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim, it's Gary's own words. I don't know of any pitcher who can throw himself a fastball under his own chin.<br /><br />Maybe Gary's visiting Frank now and he just doesn't have time to respond.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Jeff--agree---my comment was a more general one.<br /><br />You never know--Gary might have some good stories about the good old days with Gerry and Dave he might want to share.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>garymoser</b><p>jim,<br /> don't have time to respond to every so called grading expert that has an so called o-----. i submit my cards to third party grading and allow the market to determine value. i was one of the first dealers to send my cards out and allowed a third party to determine grade ( creases count ). only been doing this for 15+ years maybe these individual have some knowledge about cards i am missing , lets call that a long shot. i wish them all lots of luck buying ungraded cards .<br /> i responding to an individual that made money from cards i sold him over the years . i never threaten anyone, i simple respond to statements when my name is brought up for no reason . <br /> on a side not !!!in my view david forman is one of they most respected guys in the hobby. in his short lifetime he has forgotten more about cards then 90% off the people on this board has ever had. these industry experts like to mention david a lot i have heard.<br /> jim, as always if i can ever been of any help please don't hesitate to contact me. <br />will be happy to share my limited knowledge. <br />gary

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim B, do you have the Rosetta Stone handy to help decipher some of that?

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Gary<br /><br />if you could, what about the 55 Bowmans?<br /><br />And if you have the time what about all the ebay auctions you win, then we see the same card listed that appears in better shape? Can you explain any of that?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />and......FWIW, they give away the New York Post & Daily News for free on 34th st, hearld square, everyday...<br /><br /><br />Dang i better drive down there and save 50 cents a day.<br /><br /><br />Steve<br /><br />

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"frank since you like to mention my name on the board so much. ... if you mention my name again beinning such a close friend i will be happy to come to your office and we can reminisce about the good old days before third party gradeing."<br /><br />Gary, three Ns in 'being'? Two Is? Sounds like you mean business. <br /><br />Has anyone heard from Frank?

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Getting back to the original post and Haas' comment that he sent it to SGC because having his own company grade the card would look like a conflict of interest - that is laughable. Did he not perceive of the possible conflict when he submitted the card? <br /><br />Perhaps the real reason he sent it to SGC was because his card continues to lose value in a GAI slab and will likely continue to do so - at least until GAIs grand re-opening on Monday.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Jack R.</b><p>Regardless of purchased or complimentary copies, <br />The NY Post has a large circulation and is based in a major media center.<br />A bit more scope than a paper from Waterloo Iowa, for instance.<br /><br />The publicity may not be all bad.<br />Most people are aware there is a possibility of false/altered artworks, jewelry, coins, and the like. Potential autograph forgery is also well known.<br />So, sportcards are not immune to similar "altering". Perhaps some of the general public did not concieve that a baseball card could be worth that much, and even be considered for alteration.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Paul Moss</b><p>Well we do seem to be finally getting back on track as opposed to a stimulating discussion regarding the thrilling world of newspaper distribution that is one of the finest thread hijackings I have ever witnessed. What does worry me is the lack of commentary concerning Haas' alleged statement as written in this acticle. Let's face it, substitute Joe Orlando for Forman and PSA for SGC, we'd be over 300 posts by now, with every conspiritorial theory from Joe Orlando being linked to the Khmer Rouge and the rumor that the first PSA slabs were made from human skulls.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Paul,<br /><br />You are right. I have refrained from commenting because Dave is a friend of mine. I am sure others have refrained from commenting due to loyalty to SGC. But if this was Joe Orlando--it would set a record for responses.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Tom Nieves</b><p><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1091141182/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1091141182/</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1183579935/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1183579935/</a><br /><br /><br />Jim, <br /><br />When you call Doug, would you mind asking him about the 2nd link?<br /><br />Paul,<br /><br />300 posts? Yeah, in the first hour.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Yes I will.<br /><br />Plan on calling Doug when I get the time.<br /><br />Jim

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Posted By: <b>Tom Nieves</b><p>Thanks Jim.<br /><br />Tom

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>I disagree. Whatever we might think of psa, its service, and its ability to grade accurately, I dont think any of us would believe psa is actively alters cards.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Wow...just got through reading the threads that Tom Nieves just posted... The baseball card hobby is messier than I had even imagined possible. I'm starting to think that Jim C's initial estimate as to altered cards may not be too far from the truth. Sad and sickening. Not too sure how I feel about any of the grading companies now.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Come on Paul. Not all improprieties, perceived or actual, are going to be talked about openly here. This board has a LONG standing tradition to be selective in the scandalous topics which are discussed. We know for certain that Mastro, PSA and GAI are evil and therefore anything they do will be scrutinized to no end. <br /><br />I have always enjoyed watching who gets a free pass and who gets lynched. Certain people and businesses are held to different standards. You could almost get fooled by reading some of the threads that people actually cared about the health of the hobby but when some issues are swept under the rug you know otherwise and conclude it is nothing more than an agenda. <br /><br />If people who post here truly cared then they should always be willing to ask the tough questions. Not just sometimes.<br /><br />Greg

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I hope Frank didn't get swept under the rug.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Tom,<br /><br />I will answer that question. Dave Forman is not a dealer. And I think you owe it to this board to prove otherwise or not make such an innuendo.<br /><br />Even I can provide a link to the loch ness site that doesn't make the alledged creature any more of a reality.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.lochness.co.uk/livecam/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.lochness.co.uk/livecam/</a><br /><br />Waiting for the proof...<br /><br />edited for spelling

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Tom Nieves</b><p>Charlie,<br /><br />The only question that was asked is if Jim would ask Doug about what was posted in one of the links. I did not offer any opinion in regards to the links. If you are looking for proof of anything, you should be asking Steve Verkman and/or Jim Newman.<br /><br />Tom

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Tom,<br /><br />No problem. But I have never seen somebody post links that are not intended to bolster there claim or innuendo. As far as, Steve or Jim, the board would welcome any proof to back up their opinions.<br /><br />Many of us have opinions about this or that but to flippantly make such an egregious charge (or to link to an egregious charge) is aggressive and reckless in a public forum.<br /><br />Charlie<br /><br /><br /><br />edited for grammar

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>The evil of card doctoring (not referring to anyone in particular) is that unless you are an eyewitness to what goes on in the privacy of a home or office, it is often impossible to "prove". But more things are true than can be proven.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Peter,<br /><br />With all due respect, you are changing the subject. The question is whether or not the owner of a third party grading service is a active dealer?<br /><br />I am waiting for some proof to support the claim...

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Changing the subject?<br /><br />There are a multitude of subjects--that is your subject Charlie.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>"Many of us have opinions about this or that but to flippantly make such an egregious charge (or to link to an egregious charge) is aggressive and reckless in a public forum."<br /><br /><br />How is a link in this forum to other statements made in this very same forum considered aggressive and reckless?<br /><br /><br />I am not judging what you are saying - I just don't see it that way - and would like to better understand where you are coming from on that issue.

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Charlie I have no idea whether Dave sells cards or not, but hypothetically speaking if someone consigns cards to a few auctions rather than selling directly to people, would that make him a "dealer"?

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />Again with all due respect, I think the notion that a grading service owner would still be an active dealer would supercede the other subjects. Also, I think it is wrong to float such an opinion without some basis of fact. And a link to an old grudge does not count.<br /><br />Charlie

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />I think many things have been said on this forum over the years that don't come close to reality...Peter C comes to mind. Further more, I don't think it is proper to use as a source of fact...an opinion stated four years ago regarding a he said...she said grudge.<br /><br />Charlie<br />

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Peter,<br /><br />In my opinion, a dealer buys things to re-sell in order to make a profit. <br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>I can see that point.<br /><br />thanks for the clarification.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Then Charlie, again speaking hypothetically of course, unless auction houses are going to broadcast the identities of their consignors, one could be a dealer without any public footprint.

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Peter,<br /><br />I agree. There is too much anonymity with auction houses. However, I don't think it is fair to assume that just because the opportunity to be dishonest exists that the person in question is taking advantage of it.<br /><br />I will stipulate to the fact that it would be possible for a person to be deceptive and maintain ownwership and dealer status simultaeously.<br /><br />My point is that I do not believe the owner of SGC is doing that. I also think if someone is going to make such a claim that they should provide some evidence other than a link to a 4 year old beef.<br /><br />That is not a slam against Tom but rather a general statment.<br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Charlie again I have no idea one way or the other, I am just pointing out the perhaps-obvious point that in this hobby as presently configured lots of opportunity exists to be dishonest whilst being able to say to anyone who makes an accusation, you can't prove it.

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Peter,<br /><br />I think in most cases in life or business if you cannot prove it then it does not exist or is not true. A person might be able to get away with something hiding behind "prove it" but eventually it will catch up to them.<br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Charlie, in the hobby "eventually" could be a long time, knowing what I know but cannot prove about certain people to whom things have not caught up yet.

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Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>"Rosetta Stone"<br /><br />Good one, Jeff!

NY Post Jumps in to The Mantle War
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>I'm still waiting for Moser to answer my questions.<br /><br />Sorry Charlie but your questions do not supercede any others here.<br /><br /><br />Steve