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Posted By: <b>Sean</b><p>im new here and im hearing that 1863 Jordan & Co. are the first baseball cards you know the 4 card set but then some people dont consider thats a baseball card they think a Cartes De visite isnt a baseball car which that it is i need some help here these cards are the oldest baseball cards that i have ever found are these really the oldest baseball cards? if not tell me if there are other ones and if you have links to the website where you found it that would help and is the 1863 "Grand Match At Hoboken" Benefit card Of Harry Wright really a baseball card or not? thanks

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Posted By: <b>David McDonald</b><p>Try here first: <br /><a href="http://lilt.ilstu.edu/golson/punctuation/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://lilt.ilstu.edu/golson/punctuation/</a>

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Posted By: <b>Sean</b><p>i dont get it what am i supposed to do in it<br /><br /><br />i get it now just because i dont have good grammar it means you have to find a website for me I HATE GRAMMAR im only in 6th Grade

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The Hoboken Match is generally not considered a baseball card, as it was used as a ticket or pass. There are other Hoboken cards, but it is no known that the folks pictured are baseball players. They may have been cricket players.

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Posted By: <b>Bobby</b><p>David,<br /><br />Way over Sean's head it's to easy. I really like it though.

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Tough crowd.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>A kid doing a school paper once asked me what was the oldest baseball card. Assuming he didn't want to hear baseball card classification theory, I said it was the 1869 Peck & Snyder Reds.

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Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>and then there is a great sense of humor<br />You sir, have both!<br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>The first baseball card, to me, is the 1868 Atlantics card...The first professional card is the 1869 Peck and Snyder Team card, as they were all paid. This is very "relative" and everyone has their own opinion. The other ticket-cards etc...could be cards to some folks, but not me. Best regards<br /><br />edited to add "See mom- Did you notice all of the punctuation I used?"

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>I have a card from 1861-64 that features Henry Chadwick standing alongside members of the Brooklyn Resolutes and the Philadelphia Athletics from the National Association of Baseball Players.<br /><br />I like to think of this card as the first baseball card...<br /><br />but I can understand why the Peck & Snyders are "more" like cards since they have advertising on the back.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>jackgoodman</b><p>Hey Bobby,<br /><br />Before you make fun of Sean, It's "too" easy would have been the better way to go.<br /><br />Just kidding around with you. Please no flames.<br /><br />Jack

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>Hal Lewis do you have pictures for that Henry Chadwick card? that would be very useful if you do if you dont try to get some thanks.

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>and im new here and why am i being make fun of im only 11 years old

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Welcome aboard. I have a daughter that is 9. Don't worry about us old guys....we're mostly harmless. You, my little friend, are the next, next generation of vintage baseball card collectors. For the record there are many adults that don't write as well as you do. Keep on posting on our board....I will make sure us old guys don't upset you too much.....This is fair warning guys......

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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>If it's a Peck & Synder we're calling the first baseball card, then I would think the honor would go to the P&S Jim Creighton, as it probably predates the Atlantics by a good several years. If it's CDVs, then it would be the Brooklyn Atlantics, which dates to 1860 or 1861. The Resolutes/Philadelphia (which also has in the image Henry Chadwick) that Hal refers to most likely dates to around 1864.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Hey Sean,<br />If you stick with this forum, you'll notice wrong usages of the words there, their, they're, site, sight, to, too, et al., and some of us are decades older than you, So don't let it throw you. You'll also find a wealth of information, so stay with it, my friend.

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Posted By: <b>V117Collector</b><p>Sean,<br /><br />Don't worry about any comments that might offend you, it's kinda like elementary school (very immature), but it's fun to read' to see what people have to say!<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>thanks guys but i still need that picture or pictures that refers to Hal Lewis's Card it will be really cool and nice if you get me a picture of it thanks guys bye

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>hey corey could you get me that picture of that 1860 to 1861 Card that would be very helpful if you do i just need those 2 pictures because i thought the 1863 Jordan And Co Were the oldest cards and the card that refers to Hal if its really 1864 than Jordan And Co would be older than that card so <br /><br /><br />.Just get me those 2 pics that i want<br /><br />.and is that card really from 1864 i need the exact date okay<br /><br />Thank You Very much Guys You Rock<br /><br />oh yea whats the year of that Peck And SNyder Jim Creignton Card or whatever was his last name i need to know that too imi only 11 so i dont know alot about this 1860's baseball cards

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>is no 11 year old.<br />Poor grammar absolutely, but his writing uses stream of consciousness that doesn't fit at all with an eleven year old's processes and writing methodology.<br />His word choices and sentence construction point to a semi-literate adult, or immigrant with only a passing aquaintance with the school system.<br /><br />No snobbery here, just don't like impostors.

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>yea i am my birthday is June 7th 1995

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Posted By: <b>George H. Counter</b><p>Why do you need those scans so bad?<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>because i want too see how it looks like

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>hey corey is this the brooklyn atlantics card you were talking about from 1860 to 1861<br /><br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/images/tlc0470.jpg"><br /><br /><br /><br />actually i think this is the hal's card because the year of this card is 1865 sooo hal when you read this tell me if this is your card you were talking about okay thanks again

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Posted By: <b>Zach Rice</b><p>The card or cardboard with baseball images on it posted above pictures the 1865 Atlantics.

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>yea i just noticed that too but thanks for saying it

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>hey corey Peck And Snyder Began in 1868-`1870 right so Jordan And Co Would Be older than right tell me if this is right

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Posted By: <b>Zach Rice</b><p>Though I don't know the exact year that Peck and Snyder started, I know it was before 1868. What many consider the first card was produced by Peck and Snyder in 1863, featuring Jim Creighton.

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Posted By: <b>Harry Wallace (HW)</b><p>Hi Corey,<br /><br />I remember seeing a picture of the Creighton Peck an Snyder in a small book. Maybe it was Rucker's, I am not sure.<br /><br />Is it possible to date that card? I was always under the impression that it was a "tribute" card made sometime after his death.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>if it really is from 1863 than it would tie with Jordan And Co Since Both of them were made in 1863 <br /><br /><br /><br />BUT ARE YOU SURE IT IS FROM 1863

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>My earliest baseball card, er, I mean my earliest crickett CDV:<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1151086066.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Jimmy Leiderman</b><p>And here is my ex cricket CdV prior to encapsulation<br /><br />(x) removed

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Hey Sean, what are these Jordan & Company cards? I haven't heard of them before.<br /><br />P.s. Don't worry about people joking around with you. We joke around with each other.

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>thats cool nice card you got there

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>Jordan And Company has very little information ill try to do my best Jordan And Company is a 4 Card Set it was made in 1863 the most famous card from the set is the Harry Wright Card that Keith olbermann has as we speak by the way if you have a Standard catalog Of Baseball cards than it will talk about 1863 Jordan And Co and it shows a picture of the harry wright card and the other 3 cards in the set if anybody has a link about jordan and co that would be useful because i hope that helped you

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Posted By: <b>Jordan And Company</b><p>wait Jimmy you have that William Crossley Card

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Posted By: <b>Jimmy Leiderman</b><p>The name of the photographer's studio owner was Andrew Jordan.<br />Not sure if he was a photographer, but he was the manager of Abraham Bogardus studio earlier.<br /><br />It's not a 4 card "set"<br />There are some pose variations as well as some without the "match" imprint.<br />There is no data available that sugests that William Crossley or William Hammond played baseball before or after the "grand match" date. (Both were very good cricket players in their time)<br />Not sure about Sam Wright baseball activities and guess you already know the answer to this question about both Harry and George Wright.<br /><br />Visit the NYPL digital collection for some images or ask Barry Sloate who had two "commons" for sale a while ago.<br /><br /><br />You can start from there...<br /><br />Edited to add that the William Crossley CdV isn't in my collection anymore.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Please call me at my office. I would like to speak with you...my number is 972-774-7032...I do need to discuss a few things about the board with you.<br /><br />thanks....leon .. aka moderator dude<br /><br />edited to add that I find it a little suspicious that an 11 yr old has the email addy of "Dealer221@aol.com" unless it's a parent's email...regardless I have emailed Sean also and am waiting for correspondence....

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>--

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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>The Jordan & Co.s "cards" in my view are not baseball cards because they (i) were issued as tickets for a championship cricket match (as such I regard them as tickets) and (ii) depict players in cricket attire (so if cards would be cricket cards). With that said, they nonetheless are great items, just not baseball cards. Images of the c. 1863 P&S Creighton and the 1860/1861 Brooklyn Atlantics CDV can be found in Stephen Wong's book "Smithsonian Baseball". The Creighton image can also be found in Mark Rucker's book on CDVs. I would post them if I could, but I am one of the more technologically inept members of this Board.<br /><br />To respond to the question of the date of the card, it was issued after Creighton's death (which was in 1862). The verso of the card is a tribute to Creighton and leaves no doubt he had died. The 1863 year of issuance is not represented as being exact, just a best approximation from people knowledgeable about Peck & Synders who have seen the card.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>hope you learn a lot....

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Hey Corey, I was in a bookstore and looked for the first time at the Smithsonian book. For those who haven't seen the book, there's a chapter devoted to Corey's 1800s baseball collection.

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>Maybe he's not allowed to make long distance phone calls?<br /><br />Just playing with ya moderator dude. Joe<br><br>A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

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Posted By: <b>Jimmy Leiderman</b><p>Corey, I agree with your analysis.<br />I do have a question about item (i) <br /><br />"were issued as tickets for a championship cricket match (as such I regard them as tickets)"<br /><br />I think you are partially correct on this one.<br />Can't remember right now, but one of the matches (The last one) was to be a baseball one and it was postponed. Not sure if it was played on a later date.<br />I remember reading the newspaper articles from those dates at the NYPL but memory fails me right now.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>Even assuming the last match was to be a baseball match, the fact that the "cards" were issued as tickets of admission to me doesn't change the fact that they are still tickets. Also, because the players are still attired in their cricket garb (i.e., they didn't reshoot the images to show them in baseball attire), if cards, I still would regard them as cricket cards.

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Posted By: <b>Jimmy Leiderman</b><p>Corey, I agree with you.<br /><br />All of the subjects pictured were cricket players at the time and they were dressed like so.<br /><br />Since I'm not a baseball "card" collector, I don't mind how are they called, tickets, cards, etc.<br /><br />To me, they are simply a bunch of cricket players CdVs that happened to be used as tickets to a series of games. <br />The fact that one of the games was meant to be a baseball one, that both Harry and George are pictured, that Harry was closely related to the match organization and the ancient date on them, makes them pretty interesting.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Amazingly, I learned today from the PSA pop report that the first bb cards were issued in 1800:<br /><br />1800 N508 SUB ROSE CIGARETTES WOMEN BASEBALL PALYERS <br />CARD NO NAME VARIETY 1-2 3-4 TOTAL <br /> Total: 1 1 7 <br /> 2 THE PITCHER WOMEN BASEBALL PLAYERS 1 0 2 <br /> 4 CHANCE FOR DBL.PLAY WOMEN BASEBALL PLAYERS 0 1 2 <br /> 5 "DOUBLE HIM UP!" WOMEN BASEBALL PLAYERS 0 0 1 <br /> 7 CATCHER WOMEN BASEBALL PLAYERS 0 0 1 <br /> 8 THE RIGHTFIELDER WOMEN BASEBALL PLAYERS 0 0 1 <br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Sean (hi Sean) and I just spoke. I must say he is a grown up 11 yr. old. His dad knows he's on the chatboard. As long as nothing is naughty, it's ok. I asked about cards and his earliet is 1956. He sounded a little timid as I think I might be a little scary (to him). So I would again like to welcome our youngest board member, Sean. This is also a good lesson in why we do need to be cognizant of what we say, and the audience in cyberspace. regards

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>1956? Quick, someone send him a t206!

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Sean,<br /> Email me an adress and I will send you a T206 card to jump start your Vintage card collection. Welcome aboard. Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS I started collecting when I was 8...