Because generally speaking people on one side of the aisle live in a fantasy world and people on the other side of the aisle live in the real world.

Doug "like how I did that?" Goodman

Are you sure?

interesting. ;)

Warriors' Damion Lee tested positive for COVID-19 despite full vaccination

Lee went on to describe the symptoms he experienced, including headache, chills, sneezing, congestion, soreness, body aches, and what he described as "brain fog" — where he'd lost track of what he was talking about five minutes into a conversation. "It felt like I was hit by a car, hit by two cars at once," he added.

https://theathletic.com/news/warrior...n/muRvt49vKYuI

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/gol...032701485.html

Dag, 1 out of 6K people to have this happen. Granted, 6K out of 80 mil is crazy odds; I'd rather win the lottery.

I haven't really been reading this thread but I wanted to mention a couple things.

Most of my family are not vaccinated. Some are close to being denyers of the pandemic. I try to be more middle of the road and evaluate both sides. I work in a large factory and up until 5 weeks ago we didn't have too many issues. A few people got it but got over it. Then a nice lady who works there got it and died within 3 days. I actually saw her on her last day there and did notice she didn't look well. I found out she had diabetes like myself and it really made me think. Most people who die tend to have other health factors and I do.

Then a friend at work, also a denyer, told me his father went to Florida and now had covid. He died within 5 days. My friend did a complete 180 and within a week had his whole family vaccinated.

So now I am really thinking about what to do. I don't really put myself in danger as I am not a people person and do not socialize much. I generally go straight home after work. Order food delivered a lot. But still go food shopping once a week. Sometimes at 6 am to avoid people.

Last Friday I decided to stop by a big grocery store to pick up a Mothers Day card (she's 88 and my sister did get her vaccinated as well as herself since they live together) and a few items. As I am walking down the aisles I heard an announcement, "any customer that wants to get a Covid19 vaccinationation can walk up to the pharmacy. No appointment necessary". So I decide to see how many people took them up. I walk over and no one is there. I know if they don't use up the vaccine it can go to waste. So I say to myself, if they have the one and done type I will get it. Guess what? One and done Johnson and Johnson. So I said OK I will do it. I figured it was a sign. Took about 5 minutes of paperwork and they asked me to come back in 15 to show I was feeling OK. So far everything is fine. But I still wonder if in a year from now it will be like "I Am Legend" LOL

Nobody ever claimed these vaccines were 100 percent effective; indeed the flu vaccines to which people don't seem to object are far far far less effective. So anectodes like Dale's are to be expected.

The precise number of these breakthrough cases is unknown, but figures released by states suggest it is at least several thousand. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which has had a team monitoring breakthrough infections since February, has partial data but has not made it public.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...ng-vaccinated/

We are still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19. After you’ve been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, you should keep taking precautions in public places like wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart from others, avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces, and washing your hands often. CDC will continue to update recommendations as we know more.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ect/after.html

Sorry, I'd rather get covid and build up immunity naturally than to get an experimental drug that has been rushed through without approval, (other than for emergency use), that still shows people, in the thousands, who are still getting severely ill and dying after receiving both vaccines.

Like the article above, why has that information been kept secret so far? Why is the fact that people are still catching covid after they have been vaccinated, not being talked about much, if at all?

Again, anyone who wants one, go ahead. Like I've stated, I am just showing the other side of the story that, imo, should be talked about more but for some mysterious reason, it is not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-qzkDNFMqg

If you are linking to an article with the information, how is it secret?:confused:
The CDC is not the only source of information. Maybe it has its reasons for waiting.
And by the way unvaccinated people who have had the illness are also getting it for a second time.

The only thing that changes the minds of deniers are dead family or friends.

So, I guess we could hope for dead denier family and friends, but that wouldn't be very polite.

Doug "I wear a mask to be polite" Goodman

I don't know a single person who has contracted covid, and of course, with that, I don't know anyone who has died of it, but I did know someone who was perfectly healthy who received the vaccine and died 4 days later, but I guess that is just anecdotal, just like these?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...cine-1.5398821

Some became seriously ill and 74 people died
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...says-1.5388245

Alberta reports country's second known death due to AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine

https://www.cp24.com/news/alberta-re...cine-1.5414687

1.3% of Canada’s COVID-19 cases had 1st vaccine: PHAC
Two hundred and three people were hospitalized and 53 people died of COVID-19 after receiving one shot of the vaccine, PHAC added.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7829119/c...t-dose-canada/

Doug, maybe you should ask your question to these "Deniers"? It would be real interesting to hear their replies to you and if you would still call them deniers after?

Mmm, who to believe? Front line doctors' and Nurses, or what MSM feeds me? :confused:
https://www.newyorker.com/science/me...-covid-vaccine
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-v...er-reluctance/
https://www.dw.com/en/covid-why-some...ted/a-56162735
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/s...cine-1.5872004
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...vaccine-access
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...-2021021721967

Thanks for uncovering all these secrets!

So what do you make of what's happening in India, Dale? Fearmongering by MSM maybe?

I find it interesting how the same people who question whether the virus caused various adverse outcomes seem to accept uncritically that the VACCINE caused all adverse outcomes reported after receiving it. Inconsistent? I would say so. I guess it depends on your agenda.

By the way, there have been some inquiries that concluded that some of the immediate adverse events reported after the vaccine were, in fact, the symptoms of panic attacks. Knowing what panic attacks can do, that doesn't surprise me.

Who actually knows what is really happening over there, Peter, and where in any of my posts am I denying covid exists?
I'm not sure how you've missed it, but the majority of what I have been trying to say is I don't think these vaccines are working as well as what we are being lead to believe.


Back to India. Wasn't it just a month or 2 ago, they, MSM, were reporting cases were plummeting rapidly?
If you can tell me which story is truthful, factual and correct, I am all ears because I honestly don't know what to believe anymore coming from MSM.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...covid-19-cases
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...785_story.html
https://www.pharmaceutical-technolog...india-unclear/
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/24/asia/...cli/index.html

Who led you to believe they were going to be completely effective? You bring up some reports of post-vaccine illnesses and deaths and think you've revealed the emperor's not wearing clothes, you're attacking a straw man, nobody made any such claims.

By the way my point is not that people deny the existence of the disease, but rather that at the same time they question the deaths attributed to it while accepting without question that any post-vaccine adverse event is causally related.

And the situation in India changed, because the government was premature in its assessment that it had largely contained the virus, and it let down its guard. The triumph of politics and agenda over science. If we were allowed to discuss politics I might say, gee that sounds familiar.

You're kidding me, right?
With the over the top push to get vaccines, who wouldn't believe they would work and one would be actually protected?

People, right now, currently, believe that. They believe that having one shot protects them by at least 80% and their chances of getting covid are practically nil.
Not one I bet, until recently, actually thought they could die.
Where did they warn us about possible severe side affects and possible death from getting the vaccine? I guess I was sleeping during that announcement?

Right now some states are offering money and other incentives trying to get people vaccinated. Why is that? Are people just now hearing about these deaths and side affects or do you think they knew all along that getting the vaccine could still land them in the hospital and possibly kill them?

CDC website.

•Some people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still get sick because no vaccine is 100% effective. Experts continue to monitor and evaluate how often this occurs, how severe their illness is, and how likely a vaccinated person is to spread COVID-19 to others.

The efficacy rates were very clear in everything I read. So were the warnings.

And just a bit ago you told me there were other sources other than the CDC?

Like I have said, numerous times now, not a peep about any of this nor the other doctors/medical professionals who oppose the vaccine on MSM.

Why do I feel like I am going in circles here? :confused:

Pretty sure it was you that mentioned that the covid survival rate was over 97% as a way of saying we don't all need the vaccine. If not you, someone did.
Let's assume the number of people who have died after getting the vaccine actually died from the vaccine. Could you please present the survival rate for people getting the vaccine? Just wondering how they compare.

Thanks, Ken

One of YOUR links was to CBS News no? A couple of others to major publications. How are you defining MSM?

There are lots of sources. I am just pointing out that not even the dreaded CDC said it was 100 percent effective.

Don't think I've ever read an article about the vaccines without them noting the efficacy rates, and it's never been 100. Seems pretty clear??

Seems Dale is knocking over a straw man. Time honored technique.

I am unsure what is aired on your T.V. news down there but ours up here has never, until recently, talked about any of the things we are currently talking about.
Sure, there are articles that exist here and there, (and most just recently), if one searches for them but most people don't anymore, they rely on the evening news only.

We have a 24/7 news site and their agenda for the past long while has been promoting vaccines and where to get them.
Rarely, until recently, have they started talking about any of these side affects and deaths.
From the beginning, it was get vaccinated, get vaccinated as soon as you can with any type/kind as having one is certainly better than not having any!!!
Fear mongering/panic inducing at its best making people believe if they don't get one they are going to die!

I haven't seen your news so I can't comment on it but as a general proposition yes news should be balanced.

27,035,524
Cases which had an outcome:
26,439,712 (98%)
Recovered / Discharged

595,812 (2%)
Deaths

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Just as a side note, and sorry if it pisses people off, it's unfortunate there isn't the same political will to take on smoking as there is to take on the coronavirus.

"Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure."

Source is CDC.

Dale I don't get your end game regarding the vaccine. Do you want no one to get it? or you are saying it's pointless.......or it's more harmful then Covid?

I have not gotten it, but may, may not.......just waiting to see how more of this plays out.

I know you are a Trumper, no problem there, and he was the one, his regime anyhow, who got the vaccine done so quickly. But I think it wasn't done recklessly to just have a vaccine. I think it was an "all hands on deck" let's figure this out working 24/7. Whereas when people say a vaccine normally takes years, that may be true, but that's because not nearly the amount of resources were put in to get this one done so quickly.

So yah you are gonna break a few eggs as we have seen, but you could get that with anything.

But back to one of my points, Trump got this done. He gets the credit not Biden in my eyes. Joe got a vaccine, basically 5-run lead going to the 9th and he just had to close out the game. So he's done that. He gets his credit as well, and to be honest it's neither of the Presidents getting this done, it's the scientists and these big companies.

So like Frank Costanza I lost my train of thought.......carry on.

I'll drink to that. But can you ban cigarette's? Basically that'd be the only way to get that done, which I'm for, but it would be like weed, you'd open a new market of black market cigarettes, basically doing a weed for smokes flip flop.

Complicated subject. A few random thoughts.

One, it just bothers me to see all these politicians urging people to do all this stuff to mitigate the impact of the virus (most of which I agree with by the way) while being terrified of and in many cases supported by the tobacco lobby and not ever speaking up about the dangers of smoking. Maybe it's apples to oranges but something doesn't sit well.

Two, there are things we could do short of banning cigarettes, I think. Better education about the dangers (I mean, you don't hear a word about it ever any more, but you hear 24 7 about the coronavirus). Better measures to protect children against second hand smoke in the home. More help to people trying to quit.

Trump, to be fair though, undercut his very strong push for a vaccine for which I give him credit by his inconsistent messaging about the virus and its impact, masks, and so forth.

In a way you are bascially asking to cure stupid. And no team of scientists is preventing that.

As far as smoking goes, they've raised the prices so high that if you want to smoke you're basically gonna go broke, or pay an arm. They raised the age to buy them to 18, so it's not like you are selling to "kids". I know middle schools and high schools have signs up regarding smoking and vaping and the harms of it. You got commercials with goons with no jaws and pulling their teeth out. You basically are being told this WILL happen to you, you will get lung cancer, you will get emphazima (sp), you will die!

If after all that, people still want to smoke, go back to my first sentence or 2.

Thanks, now how about the number of deaths after getting the vaccine? Think it approaches 2%? That was my question for you.

I'm getting my 2nd Moderna shot Friday. Why? Because I care. Even though I'm healthy and have a great immune system and probably don't need it, but I care about the old and infirm, I care about my tribe, my community and my country. I'd never forgive myself if I gave it to someone and they died.

This is my first pandemic so I'll err on the side of caution and go slowly with my reintroduction to normalcy. I've known 3 people who died of Covid and had a colleague lose 7 nurses who died in the shitshow that was NYC. So if I need to do my part to get us to herd immunity so folks will stop dying, sign me up.

Besides, in my wayward youth I've ingested random drugs off a dirty barroom floor with some bar slut and went home with her to have unprotected sex, not knowing who manufactured the drugs or the bar sluts name. Just sayin'...

I think I'll be okay with a little Covid shot.

I'm just trying to help people make a more educated decision, that is all.

Just this weekend my wife visited her sister at her lakeside home. She received the shot a week or 2 ago and based on what she told my wife, she thought she was fully protected/immune from ever getting covid.
She rarely, if ever watches the news or reads newspapers and the biggest reason she moved to where she is, is to get away from it all.
I have no idea what made her or who told her to get the shot, but, just as one example, here is someone who obviously didn't look into things further before getting it.
My wife said the look on her face was shear shock when she told her that she would likely need a booster in another 6 months as that is what they are saying, that these vaccines are only good for 6 months or so.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfiz...12-months.html

It's all about the money, Peter, and nothing else. If they seriously wanted to ban smoking they would, but you can bet your you no what that they'd tax something else to make up the shortfall.

Like I said before, many are also getting filthy rich off this covid vaccine rollout, but that is another story altogether.

Anyone notice the graph in the link above I posted above how the case numbers, pre election, went through the roof but right after, when they lowered the PCR testing threshold number and began testing far less people, that the covid case numbers plummeted? Anyone notice that right after the election that CNN quit showing the covid case numbers and deaths in their ticker tape?
Things that make you go Hmm. :rolleyes:

If I could answer it or find you the answer I would but you will have to scroll back up to the post/link I provided earlier where they say they are tracking that number but for some reason are currently being secretive with it.

Peter even mentioned in his thread, maybe there is a reason for that but I guess you missed both?

Not for me. I’m sure nothing’s wrong with it, but if I have a better chance of getting in a car crash and dying going to or from work, I’ll take my chances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm just wondering what some of you would do if you did get COVID. Would your principles exclude you from accepting any treatment for something that either isn't as bad as they say or only kills 2% of the people who get it?

I took the J&J early on -- no issues. Look forward to getting back to my two favorite retirement activities -- playing poker and shooting pool.

I can't speak for everyone that declines the vaccine, but I think most of us are not antivaxxers. We're just not convinced that enough research and testing has gone into the vaccine to inject ourselves with it. I'm grateful for the previous administration's decision to start working on a vaccine immediately without delay (in January of last year), but it's just way too soon. It hasn't even been approved by the FDA yet. If within a couple of years or so it's determined there are no long term side effects, I'll probably get it myself.

That is a thoughtful answer and I appreciate it but I'm not really talking about the vaccine. I guess what I mean is there is a lot of trivializing in this thread. People on the board have made it known they've lost people to the virus. Suggesting it isn't a big deal or only kills X people may be trivializing that loss.

You mean take in fluids, maintain good hygiene and bedrest?
cant' Imagine anyone would say NO to that!

Again, you're sort of trivializing what people go through. I doubt anyone who's sat around a family member on a ventilator thought it was a joke.

Ahh, got it. Not minimalizing those deaths, but let's be honest. Admittedly, all those that I've read about on this board had underlying health conditions. Those folks would have probably had the same fate had they had a severe bout of the flu. Again, just being honest.

Edited to add: For someone in otherwise good health, the survival rate is an important factor.

Positive. Slayer is about as evil as a church-going grandmother, but with less musical talent.

No just the 98% . Majority rules, last time I checked.


And for the record my dad died of 'something possibly sars related" years before covid existed. They just weren't testing for it then. Same exact symptoms, diabetic. 64 years young. I believe in fate, sure it sucks, but you can't cheat death.

I don't know what that means. People often seek medical care to prevent death. Why do hospitals exist if fate is fate?

Now you are trivializing medical care. Fear is fear too I guess, just depends on the threshold of each person. Might as well head to the emergency room for a band aid

You could explain what you meant if you chose to.

+1