PSA has stopped accepting submissions
 

SGC has a chance to really step it up. Especially with modern.

Is that something from 'The Onion,' or is it real? :rolleyes:

Do they have excess capacity as they are presently figured?

Wow. Three months. The ripple effects might be interesting. I’m also not sure if a moratorium on new subs is the answer. There are enough devout PSA addicts that will just save up their cards rather than sub to a different TPG. PSA could see a tidal wave come July 1 and be right back where they started....

Still accepting super express and above and plan a tiered reopening of lower services. Something had give I suppose.

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Well if everyone had just worn their face masks

:D

Guess it is time to raise the prices of all PSA-graded cards to reflect the coming drought.

I think they literally have a two year backlog wouldn't worry yet about a drought. :cool::eek:

The Onion
 

I receive an email from The Onion every day and I haven't seen any articles about PSA.

https://www.theonion.com/?utm_source...ign=2021-03-30

I think PSA saw my post bashing them on the BODA thread and decided to shut down.... man I am good! :p

SGC has a real shot. I am a fan of SGC and prefer them to everyone, but in my experience they seem to always find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

BTW- the Onion started in Madison, WI - Go Badgers!

How many graders/employees does SGC have?

I worry this is going to cause a severe increase in submissions to SGC causing a repeat of their excessive wait times.

I suspect that lots of modern submissions will still avoid them (at least I selfishly hope so, so it doesn't take me 4 months to get back my modest 2 to 7 card submissions).

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No clue, but I am sure it’s a significantly smaller outfit than PSA (and yet they do a much better job)

PSA has close to 800 employees, SGC can't be more than a small fraction of that I would think? I would be surprised if they had the physical capacity -- or frankly the desire -- to massively upgrade the size of their operation.

So if you're a younger collector/flipper now where do you go with all your Acunas and Sotos and first year prospects and Prizm commons?

SGC Chief Grader today:

https://media.giphy.com/media/Hm3ZMI68o17os/giphy.gif

i tend to agree with this, Pete. I don't think the desire is there?

I don't either.
Think about it though. Suppose this isn't just a short term move by Nat Turner but a long term plan to position PSA as more of a high end, high dollar grader than a low dollar mass grader. Maybe he sees more of an opportunity to flip the company, or do another IPO, in that posture. Maybe the economics are better who knows. Grading and mostly by PSA has become the norm for all sorts of cards that in the past we never would have dreamed of grading or buying graded. Do we go back to that or does someone else take up the slack.

I agree they do a WAY better job from my personal experience.

They seem to be getting getting submissions back very fast right now. Anybody have any guesses on if it is because they are doing a great job or just getting WAY WAY less submissions than everyone else.

The overwhelming majority of PSA subs are modern stuff and mostly stuff not worth a hell of a lot. People are subbing to get 10s on cards that aren't worth shit raw. SGC isn't getting any of that.

+1

I believe they posted that they ramped their staff up from like 15 last year to like 70 right now.

certainly possible...the value of PSA slabs will go up with them harder to get. But I agree they could rebrand themselves and by doing so leave the past behind!!!!!!!

PSA should just split into two branches. PSA Modern (anything less than 3 years old) and PSA Classic (everything else). I’ll bet the subs to PSA Modern would be 10 to 1 vs. Classic, then set prices and lead times accordingly.

Follow the genius brand marketing of 1980s Coca-Cola.

You could get your vintage graded quickly and the guys trying to flip PSA 10s of 2020 Anthony Rendon base cards would still have a wait.

Any thoughts if the current crazy market prices might be pushed even higher for PSA stuff in general ? I'm gonna hesitantly say, yes.

Modern Garbage is going to Tank.

Higher End Vintage Super Stars 6-8 will Dominate

My guess would be the opposite of this.

New is going to stay a overpriced game of hot potato.

After we all get out of the house the insanely overpriced vintage will drop back to before the Covid run up in prices. Except Mantle, he will remain extremely overpriced.

I’m not sure I buy this. You think everyone who entered the hobby leaves?

I think there is too much cash in the system and I also think social media has made card collecting cool again.

Yes I do think they all leave when they can go back to the things they found to be way more fun before. I could be wrong and it would be far from the first time.:D

Well, I guess that solves my problem about having a couple packs graded...

Agreed. Did you catch Barret-Jackson last week? Thursday and Friday usually pretty sedate, this year it was weekend prices from the get go, 75k cards going for 200k, the commentators were blown away. This isn't going to end until it ends badly.

Is there another business out there that actively and consciously shuts its doors to more customers / sales?

Yes anything that has a limited preset number. Happens in collector issue physical media all the time. They’ll issue say 1000 units but there are 3000 people that want one instantly and they now it but creating an after market helps them sell the next release and so on.

This is a positive for the collector of non-graded raw cards, they will become more affordable. Why? Because there is now less upside potential for someone to score with grading a card bought raw. Raw Card Prices should become more affordable.

PSA, it is my belief, 100% is making the right move here.

Since I have done a few bulk subs to help out the members here at Net54, I figure I will add my two cents worth. This move was LONG OVERDUE!!! I have a sub outstanding since LAST AUGUST!!!! Let that sink in. Having member wait almost a year to get their cards back is unheard of. I hope this will help clear up their backlog some. I was only going to sub under quarterly specials anyway, as I think the $20 price point to get a card graded in ENTIRELY too high. Unless you hold one of those recent "lottery winners", it makes no sense.

I was just about to put in a bulk sub on April 1st, I was just waiting to see the new quarterly specials:rolleyes:

no more quarterly specials
 

Looks like quarterly specials are now shut down as well. I guess it works out well, since I am still waiting on submissions from last June, as well as a couple of others. Maybe by fall turnaround times will get back to "normal", it will be interesting to see if pricing follows suit!

Have you ever seen prices go down? Maybe for a blip but not much at all. My guess is prices for grading goes up. New owners and all....

.

Agree I expect higher pricing for grading when things open back up. Totally understandable and acceptable to me.

It is and it isn't. We will see how the supply/demand curve reacts. I know I have a ton of raw cards just waiting to go somewhere.

The biggest regret former Starbucks CEO Howard Shultz had was to not slow down growth for a few months and fix some of the operational issues the company had. It took years for him to eventually fix those problems.

Who is "Anthony Rendon"?

Re: PSA has stopped accepting submissions
 

362 new employees in the last 14 months. Wonder how many of them can spot a fake or altered card or tell the difference between an e120 and a w573.

LOL, less than zero but don't worry they will still sell for more in their slab.:eek::rolleyes:

A month or so ago I sent an e-mail to SGC suggesting that it establish an on-site grading service whereby a team of employees would travel to major cities and grade cards on the spot (or maybe with a one-day layover, whatever). My thinking was that there are likely many collectors like myself who wish to have cards graded but would prefer not to have to send them off and then wait a substantial period for their return. I received no response.

I now wonder whether this suspension by PSA doesn't offer an opportunity for SGC (or Beckett or someone else) to institute, or test out, such a service and thereby increase revenues or maybe even grab a portion of PSA's market share.

I believe that was the original point of Beckett Raw Card Review. Your card would get graded but not encapsulated and then for a couple of extra dollars it could go to the home office for the encapsulation. That way, you knew the grade of the card and if anything occurred everyone was on the same page.

Rich

The Beckett raw card review was a complete joke. It was just an on site opinion that meant nothing other that a discount when they actually graded it. To be clear the grade on the Raw Card Review did not mean it was the grade they would give it when actually grading it.

Any good bbq place.

Nobody goes there any more, it's too crowded.

One of my fave meals is BBQ. In Texas it is just a fact. That said. have yawl seen how much BBQ has gone up recently? You would think they are in the grading business!

To answer Ed's question above, 0 graders will know the difference between an E120 and W573. They look the same on the front, ya know...

Actually it was supposed to be the same grade.

Rich

I would guess very few, which may or may not be an issue. If they were hiring to meet the demand created by the glut of modern submissions, then being able to tell subtle differences in pre-war cards is probably not a requirement of the new employees.

I had always made the assumption that the grading companies operated in some type of assembly line fashion (which may or may not be correct). That would likely leave the logjam with the individual actually assigning the grade. To me, it would seem like there would or could potentially be a rather steep learning curve to this type of thing, even for someone with what many on this board would consider basic knowledge. As with many other business problems, throwing more people at a problem doesn't always make it go away.

Cheers,
Mark

Maybe that was the original plan but I can guarantee that is not what happened in all cases. I am not saying that they didn't change it to correct a mistake, just that it did happen. A long time hobby friend and fellow member was way more than a little mad when they done it to him.

Yep. It has gotten more expensive but worth it at the great places. Have two right here in Central Texas. Salt Lick BBQ in Driftwood and Creekside right here in Wimberley. Two of the best in Texas!

TBH, I’ve never not had sticker shock at a BBQ joint, but I’ve never once regretted it, either. Expensive ingredients + a lot of labor is gonna cost you. The pandemic certainly isn’t helping the supply chain either. My guess is meat prices soar even higher as we head into prime grilling season, too.

As for PSA, it’s pretty rare that a company creates such a high demand for their product/service that they no longer even try to meet it. Usually when this happens another company swoops in to fill the gap, but I’m not so sure here. PSA is so much more preferred by everyone. I think Peter’s theory is interesting...that they come out of this and position themselves as a higher end option. If that happens, however, the hobby will be forced to accept an alternative TPG as the leader in the lower end, and I see no front runner there. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out, nonetheless.

Remember many of the newly hired employees are NOT hired as graders. You need people to accept mail, open mail, ship out packages, do data entry, do accounting, etc. Never assume everyone is hired as a grader and frankly many of the people just need to be proficient at what they are hired for, not card knowledge

Like when the College Board eliminated the essay part of the SATs, and exam fees went up because they had 'restructured' the exam.

Exactly! SGC ain't getting shit!

Unless those lower tiers never come back, which would not surprise me.

Adam - You do live in LA, right? Modern is clearly a four letter word to you. :D

I thought PSA was justifying their recent prices increases by including a side of BBQ with each order.

So, an athlete?

Interesting recent article - PSA claims Pokemon submissions have greatly affected their turnaround times. Pokemon Company says they can't print cards fast enough.

Yes, newer sports cards are overwhelming PSA, but Pokemon sounds like a huge contributing factor to the long delays.

I just can't see the logic that another grading company can take advantage of this. PSA gets higher prices because of its registry. People use PSA because they get higher prices due to the registry. I'm pretty sure that if people were willing to wait six months or so to get their cards back after being graded anyway, pausing submissions until July won't incentivize anyone to go to another TPG. There isn't another TPG that has remotely positioned themselves to taking advantage of this situation and PSA surely knows this.

To the contrary
 

They are in process of getting about $3k of my business!

I can "afford" to sell cards for less in SGC holders if I need to - I can't sell crap from the 5 orders that I have sitting at PSA from as early as JULY! I can't make $$ on inventory that I can't sell. Secondly, the difference in grading fee allows me "room" to sell an SGC graded card for $75 less (for cards valued under $499) and still be in the same place net should I choose to do so.

The only reason I have heard that gives me any pause is the extra piece of pointy plastic (on the black plastic insert) that another board member found in his recently received slab.

This situation reminds of the "soup nazi" episode of seinfeld!! - NO GRADES FOR YOU!

What if I had replaced Rendon with Teofimo Lopez, would that help? :)

I get exactly what Howard is saying. I still have a hard time pulling the trigger on SGC, when PSA brings sooooooooooooooooooooo much more money!!! Irregardless, sounds like all the Big Boys are gonna be charging AT MINIMUM, $20 per card to get stuff graded. I will wait and see if the quarterly specials resume. The swinging 60's was a good one.

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I just don’t understand how hard it is for SGC to put together a registry. Give the data to a few college kids and they’d build it in a week for beer money.

SGC May have to raise their pricing for a while to keep from becoming overwhelmed. Idk

Couple thoughts.

1. What's the difference if your cards sit in your possession or PSA's? If a bulk submission was going to take 9 months anyway it doesn't disincentivize you to wait for PSA to get caught up in 4 months and then take another two to grade your bulk order, providing they get their ducks in a row for the slamming they are going to take if and when they accept bulk again.

2. This MIGHT hurt the raw card market on low value raw, high value PSA 10, cards. Jordan cards like 89 Fleer which were selling for nice money raw to people who intended to gamble with it may suffer as there is no way you're going to gamble $300 on grading that card.

3. It might well HELP the versions of those cards already graded because they are no longer infinite until PSA makes it affordable to grade them again. So cards like PSA 9 and 10 1989 UD Griffey might actually go up FURTHER because the supply isn't going to increase for a while and if the speculators are holding onto theirs it may make them appear more scarce than they actually are.

That's three thoughts actually but the last one hit me while I was typing the 2nd.

So if I were in this market personally, I'd likely look to buy raw and sell graded, not immediately, but I'd definitely be watching things closely.

Isn't the part I made bold the whole idea anyway? There is no more money in selling PSA cards than SGC or Beckett if you bought them graded. Sure PSA might sell for more but that just means you paid more for it. I always though the real money was buying raw and selling PSA graded cards.

Then if you can do a few group subs so others are paying to get your cards graded you can make even more. At least that has always been my take on it.

I must be doing something wrong then......

Charge an extra $1 a card then. On a 500 card sub that should be several free cards for the work of doing the submission.:)

To be clear Bobby what you do for everyone on the forum is great, I have even got in on at least one before.

Ben, sure but I think the difference is going to be more extreme than in the past. Also right now speculators are hoarding the graded stuff. Cards you used to find 40 of on Ebay at any given time aren't there at all right now. I'm also not talking about doing it with the idea of grading the raw that you buy and flipping it. I'm specifically thinking because you will be UNABLE to do just that it may have interesting repercussions on the raw card world.

Is it possible that the registry idea is proprietary to PSA (or their lawyers are at least pushing that narrative), and that is the reason none of the other TPG's have followed in those footsteps?

Also............don't understand why anybody would need anything more then a Pop report to get a feel for value, rarity, demand, etc......

Anything beyond that is just a d*ck measuring contest. :rolleyes:

I am asking because I got out of graded cards. Did SGC completely get rid of the crappy registry they used to have?

I don't know, LOL. I just (barely), got into graded. :cool:

No
 

SGC had one - it just wasn't very user friendly.

As discussed in another thread the time is ripe for a 3rd party registry that is inclusive of at least the big 3 grading companies (PSA, SGC and Beckett).

Re: what's the difference if you have inventory or PSA has it? Really? Imagine how an auction company would do with no consignments (their "inventory"). I'm more "okay" with PSA not taking subs than taking them and saying we have no idea when we will get these back to you. 3 of the 5 subs I have there were submitted while they still had turnaround estimates. 1 of them coming up on a year now. VERY different for a collector just looking to put a card away (in which case I agree with your assessment).

It is definitely going to be interesting to see how this move affects the market both short and long term. A number of different possible outcomes.

It was a hot mess that they were "updating" and going to release the new and better version of. As that statement got stale and old (that was the line for YEARS) they finally admitted defeat and pulled the plug on it a few months ago.