Yankees Ticket Dating Guide BOTCHED
 

Man, anyone use this, I'm assuming yes:

http://keymancollectibles.com/newyor...meschedule.htm

It's so botched.

Example of a Ticket anyone use the guide will think its a 1936, as did this seller:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-LE...19.m1438.l2649

...but its a 1937, thats when the Yankees played the Indians in Game 14.

There are other examples of PSA botching Tickets due to this guide. I can list if anyone would like to see. Thus many Yankees ticket graded by PSA are just completely wrong. You may have one in your possession.

Paul,
Is there a better guide to use in dating these tickets? I have a bunch of them and I do remember a board member a few years ago had said he was able to tell what dates these tickets were from. I dont see him post much anymore...

I don't think there is another guide out there. Wish the guys who made this one would correct it, but the problem is PSA has slabbed so many incorrectly I don't think they are admitting to it being botched anytime soon.

Example:

https://goldinauctions.com/1923_New_...-LOT23876.aspx

Says 1923 on it........problem is its a 1924

This example was initially wrong and they have since corrected that (on years 1923 to 1928), but that was corrected before their guide came out and once it came out they have yet to fix any inconsistencies on years after that so hard to trust the 1930's.

Again so many have been graded its just a mess, it would be nice if they or someone more knowledgeable then me came out with a corrected guide.

Thanks Paul.. That is why I have just held on to these ... Thanks for the info...

Guide is accepted as being accurate By PSA and now SGC
 

Keyman Guide is accepted as being accurate By PSA and now SGC

the only two recognized ticket authentication companies
SMR Guide even The Baseball Hall of Fame
SGC who have over a hundred errors on tickets. have seen the light and now except it as the norm and there are now many SGC tickets slabbed based on Keyman , has PSA been 100% accurate 100% of the time, obviously I cannot say that
PSA and Now SGC provide Consistency and acknowledged accuracy is what people pay for including all the big auction houses
but I do appreciate your time finding this anomaly. which you say is wrong based on some one hand writing teams ?? , and will all know how accurate that is'
and before you list the other errors you found
I could list 1000's of PSA and SGC 100% correct labels .
the Keyman guide was set up to provide the only posted internet and bonafide verifiable information on undated Yankees tickets , which is become invaluable to the Yankee ticket collector and used extensively . I have received 100's of compliments commending the painstaking Research required to put his date together for any one to see . I am proud of what I have done for the Ticket hobby
and overall its been a wonderful and gratifying experience , and worth the time and effort , and if you guys still want to try and blow it up over a some errors you found [B] then Let the bashing begin , I know its coming.

I do not see it as bashing. Yet anyway.

And certainly no one should bash you for the great amount of work that went into the guide and your generosity in sharing that wealth of knowledge with the larger collecting community. You should be thanked for that, and very much so.

If, however, new information comes to light that shows errors or updates are needed, then this is equally important. A guide can no longer be considered a true guide if it shown to contain errors or has become outdated due to additional research.

This is especially important if many tickets have been incorrectly slabbed by the alphabet soups based on outdated information which has now shown to be inaccurate. It is that much more important to let the hobby know so that they can be informed when purchasing a slabbed ticket as to whether or not the slabbing company used outdated information and their flip may be incorrect. Unfortunately that genie left the bottle a long time ago and the slabs are pretty much forever. So if they are incorrect people need to know what to look for in an inaccurate flip.

I don't know much about ticket collecting, so all of my above statements are just based on collecting in general. If I am off base in what I have read in this thread then please forgive me.

WEB SITE HAS BEEN REVISED with some corrections
 

WEB SITE HAS BEEN REVISED with some minor corrections over the years
and FYI PSA will correct any submission wrongly labeled at no charge
and I will provide the details to any one that has one to be fixed, also at no charge
my intentions were to prevent the barrage of mis identified tickets for mile stone games hitting the market , at this time the Keyman website is 100% accurate with the Year Dating codes from 1923-1968 , and until proven with 100% verifiable proof that its wrong , .

Tom, you are 100% dead on. There is no bashing here or intended. It's all about getting it right. The bashing however will come if its not updated and corrected.


This one says 1927

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...410044-44099.s

but its a 1924, correct David? or incorrect?

ok so the link in my original post:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-LE...19.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-LE...19.m1438.l2649

what year is that ticket from?

ticket shown is 1923
 

actually ticket shown is 100% 1923 was slabbed WRONGLY in 2010 pre keyman dating guide 2014

I'm sorry yes I meant to say 1923, but my point is its slabbed as a 1927, which is incorrect.And there are several out there like this slabbed incorrect.

what about the other one, my original post, what year is that one?

1936
 

it has a Letter D which corresponds with 1936 date code
hundreds of tickets have wrong hand written dates teams or events
that should never be taken on face value

if that were the case I can sell you some original Babe Ruth signatures
that some ones grand pappy said he got personally and even wrote the date he got them , but NO COA go figure

see we all make mistakes that are not intentional and meant to deceive
 

see we all make mistakes you meant 1923 that are not intentional and meant to deceive

my intentions have always been honorable with no harm or malice or hidden agenda , we researched the data for several years , inspecting 1000's of ticket images and cross referencing them over and over again until we were certain as we could be before presenting it to PSA and SMR who acknowledge that it was the best , most well documented and most accurate information available on Undated Yankee tickets , SMR published it in July 2013 , and PSA posted on the nationally known PSA website, Now every single big auction refers to it , when it come to Undated Yankees Tickets
obviously some folks still want to hang me up like I am some scam artist
out to make a buck , thats the farthest thing from the truth , yes you have pointed out some errors
but this is the best and only actual factual information you have out there.
and Provides a key service to the 99.9% of people who accept it as a fair and accurate guide
and they will take it over absolutely nothing that was available before

so bidding over $200 on a ticket from a "1936" rain out game? (edited to say not a rainout, I'm typing so fast, now I'm making errors, ok I'll slow it down)

a select few in the know, know its a 1937 game.

and isn't this one a 1967:

http://dec13.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...m.pl?lotno=239



with someone putting a false date stamped on it?

Game 14 was not rained out
 

Home Game 14 in 1936 was not rained out and played 5-6-1936
see the Yankees Home schedule image came from original 1936 Scorecard
which clearly shows Home Game 14 as being played5-6-1936 it was not rained out
http://keymancollectibles.com/ticket...meschedule.htm

So how is this a 1936? clearly its a 1933 right? according to your guide it is a 1933.

no holo gram
 

IT HAS no hologram and was Slabbed 2011 or earlier pre Keyman GUIDE
for all you naysays trust me there are literally a handful of you ,
keep up the good work trolling for PSA errors ,

I will give you $100 for each wrong one in turn you have to give me a $1 for every right one
we then can see who come's out ahead, and yes I know you will still love to Hate thats life

Ok, you came up with the guide (many props for that), but it has many inconsistencies. Problem in some peoples eyes could be you also work for PSA, you slabbed these, many incorrectly, and got some big profits.

Not sure anyone is turning in a Joe D debut ticket worth 1000's slabbed incorrectly to get it correctly slabbed as some perhaps meaningless regular season game.

slabbed pre keyman Guide
 

you actually found the ticket that started my quest
to rid the internet of bogus Yankee tickets

it is in fact a 1933 100000000000000000%
this ticket has never resurfaced since it was shown back in 2011
as you can see it has no hologram so its well before Keyman Guide era
the person who authenticated back then for PSA is no longer with the Company
keep them coming

look I don't know when you worked there, when you didn't who slabbed which ones.

All I know is the guide while helpful has some inconsistencies even now as it sits out there.

Would be nice if you fixed those, if not, nothing I can do about it.

And I just wanted to warn all those out these collecting undated Yankees tickets be very wary, before you go by the slab.

Good day!

slander
 

wow Paul that is a slanderous especially posting with unfounded false accusations and Insinuations with that comment now we have a huge problem all's fair when it comes to pointing some errors but dude you have way crossed the line !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
accusing me of trying to deliberately mis inform people and to do this for gain this is is now Personal just like I New it was
I would like you to retract that statement

Got your PM but looks like it is being adequately discussed already. Just curious, how did Paul cross the line? Can't anyone state their opinion? I see nothing actionable. :)

Never said:

"you deliberately misinformed people for gain"

interesting that you chose those words. Go back and re-read mine.

I said you as in you as in PSA, since you are PSA right? So you or PSA however you want to put it slabbed many of these incorrectly. I never said it was intentional or not. Guessing it was just done incorrectly because it was botched. It was however done, that is a fact.

And big money were made from these errors. That also is a fact.

I've been collecting tickets for many years. I was never comfortable with an undated ticket. So I do not consider them for my collection. I realize this makes it way harder to find some tickets but I feel it is better to be certain. Also if I want to sell a ticket it sounds really shady trying to explain to someone how to date it with a certain code.

I know David, I know he is a good guy and trying to do something so everyone will benefit. But I'm afraid there may always be some discrepancy along the way. To try and nail something down 100% may not be possible. Even in more recent times I have seen teams use different ticket stock when they ran out of one type. But of course they were still dated.

this comment he wrote

"Problem in some peoples eyes could be you also work for PSA, you slabbed these, many incorrectly, and got some big profits."

I do not work for PSA and I never Have
and stating slabbing incorrectly and got big profits another unfounded and false accusation.

surely that is not allowed

Oh if you don't work for them my error, but I recall from one of your posts in this thread you stating you were a consultant for them:


http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=223277&page=2

I don't see why that wouldn't be allowed? He has his full name out here so can pretty much say anything he wants to. He is just giving an opinion? If you never worked for PSA just say it. If what he said isn't true just say it. If you think he is legally out of bounds then pursue it.
I remember when people said some crazy things about me when my collection was being sold. So what? I read somewhere that I knew about the Peck and Snyder being stolen blah blah blah. None of it is true so I didn't worry about it. To be clear though, everyone is accountable for what they say on this board. And they can be held liable in court.

thanks Randall
 

Thanks Randell

all I ever intended to do by spending 1000's of man hours to come up with the most comprehensive guide to Undated Yankees tickets
was to make people aware of what game their ticket could be from
PSA slabbed some tickets incorrectly Pre Keyman era
but have since been doing a fantastic Job. with Hologramm slabbed errors being virtually non existent , I also stated any one owing a I wrongly dated slabbed ticket PSA would fix it at no charge
I have never worked for PSA have been an "UNPAID" part time CONSULTANT for Undated Yankees tickets only
never received a dime or any special privileges

and David can you explain this one that just ended on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-6-1939-Ya...p2047675.l2557

If I were to go by your current guide, that's a 1937 ticket with a 1939 program.

Amazingly, game 50 was against the Indians in 1939, just like the program. Both items are 1939.

never receiveda dime and no special privileges
 

I have never worked for PSA I have been an "UNPAID" part time CONSULTANT for Undated Yankees tickets only since 2013
never received a dime or any received any special privileges

accusing me of unfounded stuff was out of totally out of line

and not called for .

...
 

David, answer the ebay Game # 50 question please.


and ok sorry I incorrectly stated you worked for PSA....again from that one thread when you said you were a PSA consultant on Yankees tickets, that in my head thought you worked for them.

After seeing this thread last night, I found what looked like a simple oversight on the 1936 Dating Guide link and emailed David directly about it. He agreed, thanked me and said that it would be updated.

I have had nothing but positive interactions with David so I suggest that if anyone finds inconsistencies with any of the info on Yankee Ticketing Dating guide to email David directly so he can check it out and make the updates if necessary.

David and whomever else helped him did the hobby a big favor by researching all of this undated Yankee ticket info. They're human so I'm sure it's not 100% and that's where we all come in. If we find errors, oversights, etc. we can help in getting this information corrected so everyone benefits.

I remember that day in 1936!!!!! when Lou gave his famous speech


https://www.greyflannelauctions.com/...-LOT22862.aspx

amazing they kept together for almost eighty years
 

amazing they kept together for almost eighty years in such great shape no staple marks , no tape, marks no writing , no discoloration on score card from being inside the program , no tell tell signs of indentations of the ticket shape ever being with or resting on the program in any way shape or form were they placed neatly side by side in a drawer undisturbed for 80 years rather than together , paper leaves marks it must have been magic or truth is that they never originally began life together , those two only met when they were listed on ebay

thanks for pointing out the error and common sense and courtesy
 

thanks for pointing out that error your common sense and courtesy
is greatly appreciated.
As we both know my intentions have always been honorable, honest and
not motivated my Gain.

Ha! that's hilarious!!!!! Great answer!!!!! You're completely wrong, but I will give you credit with that answer. The Magic ticket theory. You should have been on the Warren Commission.

Again to those playing at home, those are both 1939 items, guide is incorrect.

says a man with out an ounce of Documented proof
 

says a man with out an ounce of Documented proof or any call to fame
as to his knowledge of Undated Yankee tickets , "google" him and undated Yankee tickets all you get is Crickets !!!! google undated Yankees tickets I come up 2nd out of 360,000 results ,
so folks send in your tickets to Shoeless Moe with his new monthly special $1.50 per ticket he can verify your ticket 100% accurately but not guaranteed
put it in a nice shiny new 20 cent card saver and have a nice hand written paper label , it should reap major benefits verses PSA and so much cheaper
so go ahead take his word I am sure you can quote him when your selling your undated Yankee ticket on ebay or on a BIG auction House it should open the floodgates of extra bidding
"or not"

your turn
I am retired I have all time in the world

Paul ,
Not to throw any gas on any fires I finally remembered the other board member that had done alot of work on the undated tickets.. It was 3 years ago . He doesnt post up much anymore but goes by Physedteacher25 His name is Pat Geroni. Maybe he can shed some more light on this topic. Just a thought....

Bottom line is many tickets as I've shown were slabbed incorrectly due to your initial research. You were told of your errors, didn't believe them either at the time, gave your standard " "handwriting on back of ticket incorrect" or "ticket stapled to incorrect program" until they proved you wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt so you had to fix. You fixed 1923-1928 and then the guide came out. The problem is after 1928 is still incorrect.

So for as much good as you did, you did a lot of harm, thus many are slabbed incorrectly, and will continue to be until you fix it, if you even can at this point. So Google yourself all you want....

.....and use all that free time to fix it.

"Here endeth the lesson" - Sean Connery

every one of those slabbed were slabbed pre keyman
 

all those you showed were slabbed prior to Keyman
but you constantly choose to ignore that fact
do every one a favor create and publish your own website with a rebuttal nationally for millions to see
and stop trying influencing a handful of PSA Haters

um.....pretty sure I posted this one:


https://goldinauctions.com/1923_New_...-LOT23876.aspx

Sold on Aug 14, 2016 at Goldin for $900 as the 4th game ever played at Yankee Stadium. Has your little hologram on it too!

Unfortunately whoever paid $900 for the 4th game ever played at Yankee Stadium got a 4/26/24 ticket (A super valuable Waite Hoyt win ticket worth about $50.)

Hi David,
I wanted to ask a question this has nothing to do with what people think is right or wrong, I posed this question to Pat 3 years ago maybe now that its been awhile you can answer it. I have these tickets and have had them for many years. A long story but my father was connected with food vending at yankee stadium and we were there often . I went to mickey mantle day as my father had business there myself and my brother were allowed all over the stadium.. I was running around in the bleachers and started to pick up ticket stubs as an 11 year old would. I have my ticket and program for mantle day but as we know these bleacher tickets arenot dated... Looking at the keyman list it says that F tickets are possibly from mantle day. I can tell you for a fact I picked these up that day. Im 60 now but remember it like yesterday. Look at the tickets and you tell me am I correct? Are they from mantle day? Thanks in advance here is my ticket from that day also....

this was the highest attended Game for over 6 years
 

this was the highest attended Game for over 6 years with capped max attendance of 60,000 in Yankee Stadium at that time , however there were
60,096 actual paid patrons , these tickets would have been the over flow as they would have run out of the Bleacher and Grandstand section tickets
most likley standing room or squeezed into the bleachers which just long benches , The Letter A and the pricing tells me all I need to know confirming what you already know these are Mickey Mantle Day
I will now be able to Clarify the finding , thanks for sharing these images
and can you remember it being standing room only especially being a single admission double header and being bunched in like sardines

In the original post you claim the ticket shown is from 1937 because of the scrap of paper attached to it. How do you know without having the entire page that the words even reference that stub. Could have been another stub below the words from a Yanks Indians game.
The stubs from the auctions the guide agrees your conclusion on date. Clearly a PSA problem not a guide problem.
The Ebay program and stub certainly look great paired together but clear evidence says they are not from same game.
No one likes the looks of a program with the stubs scotch taped to the inside but for the most part they offer the best evidence of stubs matching programs.
There was a guy who worked for PSA as their "Number one Ticket Expert" who still does business on Ebay as Buckner who has sold me undated tickets that were not as described as recently as this past year. So I know PSA made mistakes in the past.
But in my opinion none of your arguments against the guide hold water.
Jonathan Sterling

excellent Summation ,
 

excellent Summation , I believe the Guide is the most informative thing to come up relating to Undated Yankees tickets ever , and any future Yankee ticket buyers should feel 100% confident that the General Consensus is this is the Guide to go by, 1000's agree including PSA, SGC, Baseball Hall Of Fame SMR Guide and All Big auctions Houses when submitting tickets , verses the handful sorry thats an underestimate its more like a dozen people that do not accept its correct ,

David,
I do remember it was packed! We stayed way longer after the games were over as my father had business there. That is why I guess we were able to pick up so many stubs and in those days everyone just threw them on the ground.. Al

Why would anyone who is providing his research to help collectors be responsible for PSA slabbing the tickets wrong? PSA should be doing their own research.

David,
I also had these tickets which I also believe were from Mantle Day only picked up 2 of these guys. Just wondered if you have seen these type of tickets.

I know the guide is botched, David knows it (but can't/won't) admit it, and Jonathan I'd guess you might be the owner of some of these tickets that if they were identified correctly would sink like a stone in value so you don't want to believe it.

Here's a few more, but I guess people who attended the games wrote the wrong date they attended off by a few years, yah that always happens when I write the date on something.

Here's a "1948" with a 1949 date written on it and a "1940" with a 1942 date on it.

Examples pop up all the time on Ebay and David will say oh that program doesn't go with that ticket even if its stapled or taped inside of it, or writing is on it, he's will never admit there could be (translated: there is) a flaw in his system. The only years that are correct again are 1923-1928, after that good luck. I'm done, believe what you want.