Small Traditions LLC/SCANDAL UPDATE
 

I've never dealt with this guy directly to my knowledge...David Lawrence Thorn...Have you?


https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1345291

I’ve won 1 thing from one of his auctions... luckily it was a “ hand cut” card by designation anyway.

They even tried to warn people with the company name...

EDIT: Reading the thread is so depressing. Just when you think you've come to grips with the situation it keeps getting worse.

Same here. At least you know it was trimmed but they're supposed to be. He had an Exhibits card that was a POP 1 Mantle that I wanted and the left side was just wavy. Had to pass. Such a shame what our hobby has come to. These people need to serve time for these crimes. PSA will eventually feel it when a deep pocket collector gets screwed and goes after them.

Some indictments might slow things down.

I believe I spoke with him briefly once after winning an auction and paying before updating my shipping address. Nothing related to these accusations. He did make the change and shipped the card out quickly. I no longer own the card.

PSA is Teflon...they will never be held accountable or liable they only offer OPINIONS

Wow. Trimming Lionel Carter cards? Nothing’s sacred anymore.

I hope he pays out the few consignors he had. A buddy of mine passed away and the person handling his affairs opted to go with Dave at Small Traditions to sell his collection. The proceeds are supposed to go to his only child his surviving Daughter. I didnt like the way they auctioned off most his stuff as they made up huge wholesale lots and gave a brief description along with a picture or two.

I heard Small Traditions was going to grade a lot of cards, but then I see many big lots were not graded and all raw. Wouldn't surprise me, if the winner(s) of some of these lots all knew most cards were mint and ripe for grading. A lot of his collection he obtained in the 90s and early 2000s. My buddy didnt like grading, as he was an excellent grader, without having someone else's opinion.

I hope everything works out where his Daughter and other consignors are paid.

I hate to say it, but when an auction does that they are usually going to buy the lot themselves and then list it properly. Mastro was known for this.

Oof. Didn’t think of that but that makes sense! Yikes!

Small Traditions is the AH that we all chewed out a few months ago (and a few years ago) about their email that suggested they get a chance to talk to PSA graders to review the grades they felt were unwarranted. I remember that thread getting revived a few months ago. I’m not sure how many actual consignments Small Traditions actually get given the number of items purchased by David, trimmed, and then auctioned off via his AH. What a shame.

Yeah I have one guy who helps me as a subcontractor. He isn't allowed to bid on lots he works on. I don't ever bid on a lot I'm selling.

Here's the thread I referenced before:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ght=traditions

it's actually right on time. There are 25-100 of these guys. We are only on #5. They will all get exposed as will PSA and the billion dollar fraud is right on schedule. Let's POP!

We can HOPE! Just like I hope the Easter Bunny comes in April

reviewing cards
 

Something I said back then makes as much sense today..

Sometimes when ya' sit back and think about it, resubmitting in a holder shouldn't be allowed. If you want to resubmit you have to crack it and send it in. And all submissions would truly be anonymous to the graders. Whatever it gets it gets. That would seem more arms length than submitting in a holder and not being able to go down in grade or arguing, especially in person, for a better one (admittedly I have done that and rarely succeeded . )

.

It's amazing to see how many trimmed Exhibits and postcards are going through Small Traditions, then compare it to the grades that the PACK-PULLED Exhibit cards submitted through Vintage Breaks that mainly get EX-MT 6s straight from cello packs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-SwEMvt7fw

Instead of using the word "amazing" to describe it, I believe that "depressing", "corrupt", "fixed", "rigged", "pre-arranged" or "agreed upon" would have been more descriptive words for what's going on.

There's nothing amazing about it any more. These grading discrepancies have become predictable and expected.

But keep right on submitting, people, as you never know when that miraculous 10 might "pop" for little old you!

PSA is not in on the scandal.
The people trim the card and PSA just grades it.
You guys really make me laugh!

PSA is TEFLON WILL NEVER BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR RENDERING THEIR OPINION
MONEY TALKS AND BULL SHIT WALKS

Sure It’s rigged always has always will be EVERYONE KNOWS THIS ITS ALL PRICED IN ......sometimes you just have to go your own way....the time to sell is now

If it measures correctly then they ALL grade them. Unless they hire forensic scientists i'm sure it will remain this way. As the last post said, if you don't like it sell and collect stamps or coins, no fraud in those hobbies.

This is a bold claim. Evidence?

No lawsuits :D

Many of these cards DON'T MEASURE CORRECTLY. Check all the amounts trimmed off the Exhibits and the postcards. Just having an example in house or the proper measurement of these cards in their database (especially since they've already graded these EXACT CARDS untrimmed) would have returned them all to David Thorne as AUTH ALTERED.
PSA is incompetent and until this year, hasn't claimed they've ever blocked a submitter for submitting vast amounts of alterations*. Knowingly accepting submissions from Gary Moser for 15 YEARS after knowing he submits trimmed cards makes them LIABLE. If you don't think PSA isn't in on the fraud, you aren't reading enough of the threads.

*To my knowledge. I would love to see evidence that they've blocked card alterers in the past. Would love to see the list of all the people blocked for fraud purposes. I have been blocked for complaining about their sorry POS company online. There's probably more people on my list than those that are actively defrauding collectors. It's all part of the cover up, right? I would love to see their block list and the reasons each person was blocked; at least the "NEVER GET CHEATED" company would warn all of us about fraudsters, right?

Great point... for now.

so true, so true. That is one fraudulent company that PSA. We have never seen this type of ineptitude and lack of integrity in any company in our lifetimes. The people running that company are pure Schmucks and cheater effers with zero integrity, just like the Astros. This is a Billion Dollar Fraud, like it or not.

If I’m a shareholder or on Board of Directors, I would be working to replace the CEO ASAP.

Emphasis mine...

No, no fraud in either... :confused::confused::confused:
Only in some fantasyland. Both have had constant frauds going back well over a century. If I looked hard enough I could probably find a coin fraud from the middle ages.
Or not so long. Jean Cavino and Alessandro Bassiano were forging ancient coins and selling them as real in 1540.
More here, Assuming it takes you to the right page (404 onward)
https://books.google.com/books?id=jV...0fraud&f=false

PSA is NOT in on the scam you sound silly. What would be in it for them?

Same reason a casino does not need to fix there games it is already fixed why risk anything?

mJD

I'd almost prefer it was some sort of fraud ring inside PSA. Overwhelming incompetence is not a reassuring substitute.

Chris Collins (Congressman about to serve jail time) has had some of his Mantle cards exposed in this one. I'm am cataloguing them over at Blowout. One of our board members bought a trimmed matchbook from David Thorn.

And Peter Spaeth seems to be concerned about the fake provenance being given by Thorn to make it look like these cards came from some advanced collection rather than being purchased by the auctionhouse and submitted through PSA in order to falsely put the card at arm's length.

If you are appalled at this fraud, the website to submit a complaint to the Colorado Atty General is around page 25.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...345291&page=26


WTH!!! PSA you’re a complete fraud

Look The before And After of the last Yankees Exhibit Card. The guy siting on the right look at his sleeve on the 4 then the 8.5 he cut his arm/sleeve way off and PSA misses this ?? yogi too on the left sitting cut his knee off wtf OH BULL S they missed this....look at penciling of the corners on the top right corner. WOW unbelievable

This is sick they ought to be ashamed of themselves

This came off a different forum.

THIS. Thank you Adam. For me, the past 15 years in the hobby is less and less graded, and more pre-war, more larger cards, and less chasing the Registry whore cards.

Psa
 

Somebody might want to alert PSA to this thread (no I don't think PSA is "in on it") as Small Traditions sponsors one of their Sweepstakes

https://www.psacard.com/sweepstakes?...s_january_2020

There was a thread about it on the CU forum that went poof

https://web.archive.org/web/20200119...-boda-exposure

Oh, PSA is well-aware of how their pants are down in this scandal. But feel free to bring it up to them and have your submission privileges removed... ;-)
They keep their message board like the Chinese version of Google.

Edit: And it's funny that they keep deleting posts. They should realize by now any juicy thread like that will be archived in the wayback machine to prove just how much they want to continue cheating their customers from knowing the truth.

Most people knew this guy was a huge Jeter Collector. It wasnt a surprise when every auction had a slew of jeter inserts etc. I thought it was common knowledge he was selling his own cards. Now the rest, certainly makes a fella think. Faking provenance, sound like the latest craze

In case you missed Post #277 by auburn35, this is pretty damning.

It’s very sad but this is all priced in people know what they’re getting into now. Nothing is going to change
PSA WILL NEVER BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE/LIABILITY THEY ARE JUST RENDERING AN OPINION
PSA IS TEFLON

I see bigger numbers and larger profits from PSA card grading division this year.......they’re the best industry leading authority .........

They know to keep quiet this will pass as it always has. We have never seen third party grading more needed and stronger, we are the best number 1 trusted in the industry

Remember we are just a few malcontents on a couple of message boards.....that’s it.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." Joseph J. Orlando, CLCT earnings call.

What did we expect? How many threads over the last several months have had multiple posts touting the importance of provenance going forward?

The crux of this whole problem is collectors’ desperation to believe anything they have to in order to feel good about a piece. It’s like dating a former porn star and convincing yourself she’s only been with you. The human brain can quite easily convince itself of anything it wants to.

Totally agree Conor. It's not surprising that provenance would begin to be faked at this point.

I like Mike, but you are out of your skull if you can't see the scam that PSA has perpetuated on all of us. A Billion Dollar fraud my friend and you can quote me.

If you want to see the problem, look in the mirror, then do something about it like STOP feeding the effing scammers. That's all it takes to stop this is for morons to stop supporting it already. People are inherently stupid, especially baseball card collectors like us. We need to stop with all the "popping" and acting like a 3 year old child on Christmas morning. It's an ugly look, really.

Instead, collectors feed the scam by continuing to support them. Where in the hell do you see grown men get their heads handed to them and enjoy the financial butt plugging?

PSA management doesn't even want to address it with their customers.:D In what world are we living in where a company can bilk their customers in a billion dollar scam and other blithering idiots keep supporting them?...AND THEY DON'T address it? I am and have been dumbfounded on how people are letting it happen in all honesty.:eek:

Maybe YOU yourself should find a new hobby. Since this one brings you such misery. My girlfriend likes glittering cups. That would be a good one for you.

:)Then he'd have no audience

says the guy who has announced a dozen times that he’s leaving the hobby

You can still love the hobby, the cards and memorabilia that make it great.

But you can also hate what they’re doing to it. And is it better to be quietly cheated and defrauded? Or to be vocal, stop submitting, and take other actions that will negatively impact these criminals and corrupt entities that perpetuate this massive scam.

Without repeating the quote, his response is damage control all the way. He must have crapped when he saw this “positive” review.

There are boogers all over this.

Fuck PSA

lets just keep doing what you're doing Bobby by being that 3 year old kid at Christmas waiting for the pop. :) I'll consider collecting glittering cups now cause you have me on a tangent and you just keep being a doorknob and waiting for pops. Contributing to the billion dollar fraud.

X 15 guys (Minimum) for 15 years minimum. Add it up. That just from one imbecile. This guy Brent Mastro.

Here's how it'd done Bobby so (WATCH THIS)

https://youtu.be/8e1lwt7E29k


STOP WITH THE POP DOPEY