Correct. Sometimes in these situations causation is fairly obvious. Sometimes, it isn’t.

Right, but my point is that in relative terms, the risk of Tylenol or aspirin is very small and most people aren’t going to not take it because of that risk. But in this context, some people seem to apply a very different standard.

Another thing I just don’t get is that it seems a lot of people who think the shots are too risky smoke, drink excessively, are obese, eat an unhealthy diet, and don’t exercise. All things that are far far far riskier. Don’t get it.

I can only imagine what it is like to live there and go through all that. I do not envy you.

I have some good statistic for you though. There are supposed to be about the same number of accountants as there are lawyers in the US, but there's something like a 14 to 1 ratio of lawyers to accountants in Congress. And I'm not aware of a single US President that was ever an accountant. And people wonder why our tax laws are so complicated and insane, why we can never seem to balance our budget, and are currently sitting at an all-time record national debt of over $29 trillion. Heck, I heard we paid $562.4 billion in interest alone for 2021, and don't forget, our interest rates are still unbelievably low. I wonder how much better things might be if we could flip that ratio around. Couldn't do any worse, that's for sure!

If this inflation we're experiencing keeps going and eventually forces interest rates much higher, we could be in for some real hurt. A lot of people, especially the millenials and anyone younger, never experienced and don't ever remember when interest rates for a home loan were typically in the upper teens, or things like having to wait in lines at the gas pump, and only being allowed to purchase gas every other day. Or what about when the personal income tax rate on salaries and wages could go as high as 50%, and for unearned income, like interest and dividends, you had in addition to your salaries and wages, the top tax rate could go as high as 70%.

I keep thinking of all the futuristic movies and shows in the past that people pointed to and talked about as being so predictive of things that have actually occurred and come to pass in our world today. And it makes me think of the movie "Dave", and how I wish we maybe had people thinking and acting like Kevin Kline and Charles Grodin to be running things today.

I find it interesting that out of all the posts here, you are:
1) The only person who has stated you've learned something
2) The only person who says "I don't have expertise, so I'm trusting my medical professional." Not CNN, not FOX, not the internets. Not Tucker, not Fauci, not the bots on Facebook. Your medical professional, that you have a history with.

And yet, you are the one person on here who has been called out for "having a closed mind." By someone who, when asked if he has an open mind, doesn't respond.

Am I the only one who noticed that??

I have many of those type of friends. I lost a life long friend like that a couple weeks ago. In real life I avoid this subject like the plague. Everyone is just too crazy no matter what side they are on. Plus I live in a small rural town that has been hit extremely hard since the beginning. I personally know easily 30 who have died and way more that now have permanent health problems including my brother.

The biggest change I have noticed is the people that have avoided the vaccine change their minds and get it after a loved one dies from Covid.

No matter your choice I sincerely wish you all good health.

Nope.

Probably to the same ironic extent that a similar set of people now demand that others protect them from their lifelong unhealthy habits by demanding that everyone else wear a mask.

Not a conspiracy subscriber by any means, but sick of all the half-truths and unanswered questions/concerns from all sides. Too much agenda and emotion, not enough objectivity and logic. No wonder people can't make informed choices.

Here's some objectivity and logic for you: COVID-19 has led to the death of nearly a million people in the US alone. Masks help to stop the spread of COVID-19. If you're asked to wear one, wear one.

Oh, really.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipUn5goyM2I

And do you honestly think almost a million people died "OF" covid in the U.S.?

If you have the flu and fall down the stairs and break your neck, is that a flu death? No, so why is it if you do the same thing but test positive for covid, it is a covid death???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw9Ci2PZKZg

Belong to facebook? If so, watch this. Like I said earlier, the truth is coming out.
https://www.facebook.com/727876236/p...789866237/?d=n

It seems like you are almost pro-covid. Kind of like get it and it’ll be fun. Or do you just think the government is going too far? Seems like many people could draw at least a middle ground of recognizing it has killed a lot of loved ones but you think forced vaccinations go too far and you’re willing to wear a mask sort of position. Where do you come out?

By the way the Moderna vax got final FDA approval two days ago. So what's the conspiracy theory take on that? Or can we finally stop hearing about the "experimental" vaccines?

No, unfortunately the bat shit crazy wackos will say that is a conspiracy also.:mad:

It's just a flu that's being used by world governments to paralyze people with fear, control them, brainwash them, and move the world towards the great Reset. And if you don't believe that, you're suffering from mass psychosis. End of story.

Oh, I am sure the anti crowd has already pivoted to some new BS party line.

I agree.

To anyone that is offended by previous post I can guarantee I am way more offended by your conspiracy posts.

To anyone who still believes we are going to vaccinate our way out of this pandemic after 2 yrs is delusional.

They will keep it going as long as people keep buying in. If you can't see that by now, then you need your eyes checked, among other things.

I always wonder who "they" is.

The Qmorons know but they cannot tell you.

That's easy, Pete. Just look at who is pushing the vaccines, the mandates and the passports and how much money is being made by all of them. Look at who is doing all the censoring and shaming of doctor's and other medical professionals who don't believe in them, just like the guy below who invented them.
If you don't think they are all in bed together, then I'm not really sure what to tell you? For a lawyer, I thought you'd be smarter, but I guess in your quest to just to throw out insults overrides that ability.
https://rumble.com/vtx2on-dr.-robert...-the-rate.html

Is this the same Fox News you are getting information on how vaccines are bad and masks aren't important?

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-...on-2021-7?op=1

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fo...ies/ar-AAQw0Jk

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/20/b...e-mandate.html

Dale that's one hell of a conspiracy you are imagining there, and I assume it's global not just the U.S./Canada. I wonder how "they" all manage to stay on the same page every day. Conference call/zoom call with 1000s of participants, maybe? Massive listserv emails? How did it start by the way? Who's in charge?

But let's talk about a specific issue. Since you made such a big deal pushing the idea that the Pfizer vax wasn't really approved, that some phantom product was, and that the vaccines were still "experimental," talk to me about Moderna and its approval now, I need to keep up. One of your Twitter feeds must have the party line, no?

Let me guess. The party line has now shifted from "experimental vaccines" to the FDA is just part of the conspiracy and Big Pharma paid for the approval. Let me know. Also let me know if you have an explanation other than changing the subject for all the data showing vaccines and boosters do help a great deal, if not perfectly, keeping people out of the hospital and from dying. Or is all that data a lie, and everyone involved in its collection and analysis a liar?

As well as other factors. Which is why the CDC itself classifies all COVID related deaths as a co-morbidity factor. I'm vaccinated, and I mask under most circumstances (indoors in public). But that doesn't avoid some of the idiotic and inconsistent policies being promoted (such as requiring proof of vaccination to work in a company where almost everyone is working from home).

Scott Gottlieb is for dumping the mask mandate. Anyone know who he is? Just one of those "rich Republicans". Former FDA commissioner, now on Board of Directors as Pfizer. Doubtful his prior experience had anything to do with Pfizers vaccine approval. Congress likes the stock.



NIH covid treatment guidelines : exposure can occur within 6 feet of an infectious source. Face coverings may reduce the spread.

This is modeled after Fauci's mask guidelines. Surprisingly his wife, Christine Grady is head of their department. Doubtful pillow talk revolves around covid guidelines.


We are severely limiting the sources, and therefore narratives, to form our own judgments. Can that at least be agreed upon?

What I find funny and what happens quite often with you, Peter, is you never acknowledge anything I post. Just straight to the insults like I dreamt them up and wrote them down myself.
I try hard, or at least I think I do, to factcheck/verify everything I post but I guess actual news stories from reliable sources and videos from other people in the know are not good enough for you?

Vids of Fauci, the CDC, the inventors of the PCR and the vaccines themselves is all fake news, conspiracy theories to you.

Regardless, you obviously think everything is above board and nothing has changed as far as the truth being told, so there is no sense carrying on with you. You are either blind or have a ton of money invested in pharmaceuticals, or maybe both, so continue to believe and boost away, Peter. We'll get there some day, herd immunity is just around the corner! :rolleyes:

My source to form my judgment is not the tv or internet because that seems like a truly bad idea. It’s my doctor I trust.

You have also avoided every direct question, even the simple yes or no one.

My one question Dale. Do you think less people would have died without the vaccines and quarantines? Just a simple yes or no because I don't need any links or long explanation that doesn't give a yes or no answer.

OK a couple more and feel free to not answer them. Do you have any friends in real life that you actually hang out with? Has the area you live been hit by Covid? Do you know anyone in real life that has died form it? These are not meant to be insulting questions in any way.

I have a brother that we share a dad. He is the one that Covid has left him with health problems. I also have a brother that we share a mother. My brother that we share a mother lives in a different part of the country. Our mother died(not covid) and my brother took care of everything. I traveled to the funeral. My brother and his friends sounded exactly like you. He could tell I was getting upset and asked why. I asked if he knew anyone that died because he and his friends sounded like a bunch of morons. It got real quiet. He said no and that only 2 people in the entire county he lived in got it and it was very minor for them. That is why they all thought it was a big conspiracy. They had not seen what Covid can do in real life. I explained how I have lost many friends and my other brother has long term health problems.

They all felt like idiots and apologized to me for their beyond stupid remarks. It also made me understand how someone could not take something so deadly serious and make stupid conspiracy theory remarks about it without having severe mental problems.

That is a very short version of why I feel the way I do.

I can understand and appreciate that. I just shudder to think that doctors believed, and had/have people convinced, this was some sort of "new disease" and claiming that we didnt know how it spread.

That was the initial narrative. When it fact, it's just like every other coronavirus we have ever encountered, just identified as slightly more virulent. I'm not conspiracist, but when the "nut jobs" even have a shred of truth to their arguements, and anyone is automatically labeled or cancelling with an opposing viewpoint, the mind does wander.

Was anyone called an Anti-vaxxer when they decided not take a flu shot? It's been a few years now I cant remember.

I never wore a mask while hiking or outdoors. I washed my hands every dam time I went out, even when I touched the mail. Luckily, I never had a positive test in just under 100 brain ticklers, or lost my smell/taste.

Nor did I lose anyone to Covid. Well barring my dad in 2014. Doctors specifically asked if he had travled to the middle east as what he had mimicked MERS to a T. Diabetic and overweight with exact covid symptoms, died on a vent, died of sepsis/heart attack. Hmmmmm, i will alway say it was likley covid ...14.

I consider myself fortunate. However, I just dont think big government, or anyone else, has my best interest at heart. I dont even what to think if hemmorgatic fever or a terrible disease how people would react.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

One could only hope.

+1 my man.

Not specifically directed at you but a jumping off point.

To the question as posed, No. But it ignores other aspects to our response (the unintended consequences), which we may never fully realize but do exist. Those whose health was impacted by imposed isolation and FUD being spread on how to deal with the virus. Should we ignore that? Those holding off on treatment, suicides, not to mention the cost of stress and other impacts. Or should we remove from the count the policies that were put in place that caused additional deaths (warehousing positive patients in nursing homes, as one example). What if we had let the let the virus run it's course initially? Could we have had more initial deaths but less in the long run? Who knows. So it's not a binary question and answer.

To be harsh, but if you really want to understand the impact to the population as a whole, you need to determine the lost 'time of life' to determine the true impact. In the extreme, it is a bigger 'loss of life' for a million children to die than a million elderly patients (of which I would be one). Back when I was paying attention to the numbers on the CDC website (late 2020) when there were hundreds of thousands of deaths but the total number of deaths for those under 18 were under 100 and those under 6 were ZERO. But of course that type of analysis doesn't play well to people's emotions beyond pissing some off into flippantly saying it is 'uncaring' to do that.

There are a lot of crackpot theories out there, but not all that disagree are basing it on crackpot theories either. And as to those questioning those who mistrust what the government and the experts are saying, why do you find that surprising? Have you not been paying attention for the past 8-10 years (and longer)?

Well if your revert back to the "flatten the curve" graph, it showed MORE deaths, but over a longer period of time as poosed to everyone getting it, and "overwhelming " hospitals.

Deaths were not our priority, it was trying to get people treated. The most susceptible to death, due to numerous factors, given a priority.

I agree with a lot of what you posted. My opinion on the quarantine being good was just to not overwhelm the hospitals more than they where at the beginning.

Besides the crazy conspiracy theories I probably have the weirdest opinions on here. I just get pissed about the people that think it is fake or some government way to control the public. At this point I think they just need to open everything back up to normal and those that die, die. As a former athlete I feel so sorry for all the missed opportunities for them during this. Most have such a short window to compete.

Have a great day everyone.:)

FWIW, pretty sure the first time "anti-vaxxer" entered my consciousness was in regards to parents not getting their kids vaxxed for measles, unfortunately leading to many outbreaks.

Latest statistics from "them." I think there was a worldwide conference call this morning and they came up with this out of thin air.

For those who are boosted, the average weekly deaths was 0.1 per 100,000 people, meaning that unvaccinated individuals were 97 times more likely to die compared to those who were boosted.

I must be blind to believe this.

Chris is one of my all time favorite comedians. If you are delicate and can't handle swear words DO NOT CLICK ON THE LINK.

Just replace the word politics with Covid.:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBI3WDOeiLA

"Dr. Maria Gonzales, ER doctor U.S Dept. Health and Human Services"
" The gov't doesn't want to show you that the darn vaccine is full of shit"

https://rumble.com/vr9wni-project-ve...l-of-crap.html

There is almost no proposition or viewpoint I couldn't find you someone with some credentials who disagreed. Do you really think that's an argument? Oh Maria Gonzalez says it's shit, so the other million doctors and scientists who support it must be wrong. Got it. Very well reasoned. Next time try quoting some Kelly Brogan, the doctor who thinks it's fear and 5G killing people, not the virus. She doesn't believe in germ-based contagion, she says.

Address the data.

Hey Irv, while you were accusing Peter of ignoring your posts, why are you ignoring mine? I was curious if you can explain why Fox News has strict vaccine/testing mandates, but their talking heads spout the anti-vaxx rhetoric you posted on here?

Speaking of mask mandates I love how the politicians (and probably celebs) up in the skybox at the Rams game just blow it off. The hypocrisy is really something.

I just read they're handing out KN95s to every fan at the Super Bowl. We'll see how many keep them on past a few minutes.

Peter,

I combined the codes found on an empty Big Mac wrapper, Coke can, Jello Pudding pack and imbedded in Amazon script. Used linux and went to a special site through Tor I got your answer. I present 'They':

Attachment 500974

Only true fans will get it. Qmorons, as usual, will have no clue.

Fake info. She does not work for HHS. The 'nurse' is running for city council in Tempe, AZ and works at the Indian Medical Center.

Dr. Gonzalez Landestoy graduated from the Universidad Autonoma De Guadalajara Facultad De Medicina in 1989. She works in Chandler, AZ and 6 other locations and specializes in Emergency Medicine and Internal Medicine. Dr. Gonzalez Landestoy is affiliated with Phoenix Indian Medical Center.

I am surprised these Qmorons don't work for Florsheim, Prada, Manolo Blahnik or Johnson & Murphy. They are very good at cobbling excrement together to create a slight illusion of truth.

She could be a perfectly fine physician but let's see her address the data. Not to get too political, but it's interesting how much these people have in common with the stolen election crowd, and there's probably a large overlap although fortunately President Trump himself seems to be convinced the vaccines are helpful. They've mastered many of the same tactics and techniques and evasions.

I'm fully vaccinated, but can fully understand why some are not. The reason that I have followed through on the program is that I didn't want to be the guy with thousands of dollars of hospital bills when a few shots might prevent it. I'm not sure I made the right decision, but I haven't been to the hospital.

I think that the other side is just as American, smart, what have you, as the other side.

WEF, or The World Economic Forum.

Nothing to see here people, just another tin hat wearing conspiracy theory from a guy that allegedly needs help. :rolleyes:

If one hasn't educated themselves yet with this movement, it might be time you did.
Like I said earlier in this thread. It is all about control.
Of course, in the article, right from my own gov't, they say it won't be used for anything nefarious, but if you believe that, it's time you woke up. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
Does anyone up here or south of the border remember this being on any political leaders agenda that was shared with the public?

"footnote[1] Back to paragraph^ This is a rough-order-of-magnitude estimate calculated from about 35 value drivers and hundreds of data points from various sources, including DIACC (Digital ID & Authentication Council of Canada), McKinsey Global Institute and World Economic Forum.

Digital ID in Ontario
https://www.ontario.ca/page/digital-id-ontario

:eek:

Just more tin hat wearing conspiracy sh*t about control. Nothing to see here people.
The WEF is fake, Klaus Schwab and his One World Order/Gov't is all just fake news too.

https://www.tiktok.com/@moonshadow42...tm_source=copy

Full vid here:
https://youtu.be/6G3nWyoQ5CQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD-ioJM8v64

klaus schwab's plan for world domination
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5V5xCTCf1Y

Digital currency: Imagine having everything you purchased tracked. Imagine being told you've purchased to much already and your account is frozen. Imagine being taxed on paying your neighbor's kid to cut your grass or shovel your driveway. Imagine being taxed on garage/yard sale purchases. Imagine being watched/surveilled like this each and everyday.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/crypto/...ency-rcna19248
Government crypto is a terrifying concept due to their inherent desire to make it programmable currency. This means you can only spend it on things they deem you need.
It has been foretold. Say goodbye to freedom with the dissolution of cash. its already taking place around the world. The banks will control your life and what you can and cannot do.

Nah, no global reset, agenda 2030. It's all just conspiracy theories, right?. :rolleyes:

Conclusion
 

After lengthy review of all available data and message boards I have come to one inescapable conclusion. Everyone who either does or does not get the Covid vaccine is NUTS! 🥜

So very true, we are all bat shit crazy in one way or another. Just some are WAY crazier than others.:D