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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Tony III</b><p>I am looking to sell an 1887 Old Judge Mickey Welch SGC 50. I am looking for advice.<br /><br />Should I send the card to Mastro for the free selling commission or send it to Memory Lane and have to pay 10%. Memory Lane says they are better at advertising and since there buyers don't have to pay to be members, they get more hits?<br /><br />You all are the experts, what would you do?
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>I would put it on the BST for $1995 and not worry about any commission.<br /><br /><br />(edited for spelling)
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Sean C</b><p>go with Mastro, REA (if the consignment window hasn't passed), or even Heritage. Then again, I'd never bid with Memory Lane.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Phil Garry</b><p>Based on the two choices you provided, I would definitely go with Mastro, more visibility and exposure for your card.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Any auction house that tells you they are better at advertising, or have a secret list of clients that only bid with them, or give you any other promise that doesn't quite make sense, is lying. They would be the first one I would cross off my list.<br /><br />It's like a used car salesman telling you the cars on his lot are better than anyone else's used cars.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />Whilst we have had only positive experiences with Mastro<br />and REA Auctions (we believe their auction has closed)-<br />however they did accept The Zimmer Game last week,,,,<br /><br />you might want to post on Network 54 with a minimum<br />with which you are comfortable and if that does not meet<br />your expectations within the week...go to E Bay.<br /><br />One other suggestion- Barry Sloate is great and his recent<br />auctions have produced very strong prices for HOF Old judge cards.<br /><br />Barry is world class and you will feel like a "true customer"<br />not a number.<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Thank you Bruce- kind words indeed (but not the reason I responded to this post).
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i definitely recommend Barry Sloate for this piece...top notch gentleman.<br /><br />MS
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>MASTRO over Memory Lane by a MILE! Was this a joke?
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>Based on the two choices, Mastro hands down. In general, Memory Lane would be a last resort due to their President's past jail time for fraud. <br /><br />1. REA<br />2. Mastro<br />3. Barry Sloate<br />4. Goodwin<br />5. Heritage<br />6. Hunt<br />7. Huggins & Scott<br />8. Mile High<br />9. Coach's Corner:>)
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>george "bulldog" adams</b><p>disagree with barry i am sure he is a good guy and i`ve heard nothin but good things about the man and i know barry runs one of the very few honest auctions in this dirty industry but no matter what you think about jp`s past you got too admit memory lane is by far the best when it comes to advertising or i should say them sons of bitches spend more dough advertising than any other auction house every page of the smr is memory lane this and memory lane that and every page of the psa website is memory lane somewhere and every psa submission has memory lane advertising when it is returned to you and every psa member gets the catalog and knows when the auction ends they prolly spend over a million a year in advertising they even send out chocolate bars and cool babe ruth coins with the memory lane logo barry no disrespect i know you have been around the industry much longer and you got a lot of old school contacts but even so it is very difficult too compete with a million dollar yearly advertising budget when all you do for advertising is a 300 dollar monthly banner ad on a obscure msg board and i don`t think you can posibly have a customer base anywhere even close to the size of memory lanes not trying to start a flame war just giving my opinion. bulldog
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>bigfish</b><p>I think this card would do well in Barry's auction. His prices on old judges have been very strong the last two auctions.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>That has to be the longest sentence ever posted on Net54. AND, all in lower caps.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>"disagree with barry i am sure he is a good guy and i`ve heard nothin but good things about the man and i know barry runs one of the very few honest auctions in this dirty industry but no matter what you think about jp`s past you got too admit memory lane is by far the best when it comes to advertising or i should say them sons of bitches spend more dough advertising than any other auction house every page of the smr is memory lane this and memory lane that and every page of the psa website is memory lane somewhere and every psa submission has memory lane advertising when it is returned to you and every psa member gets the catalog and knows when the auction ends they prolly spend over a million a year in advertising they even send out chocolate bars and cool babe ruth coins with the memory lane logo barry no disrespect i know you have been around the industry much longer and you got a lot of old school contacts but even so it is very difficult too compete with a million dollar yearly advertising budget when all you do for advertising is a 300 dollar monthly banner ad on a obscure msg board and i don`t think you can posibly have a customer base anywhere even close to the size of memory lanes not trying to start a flame war just giving my opinion. bulldog"<br /><br />No question that Memory Lane and PSA have been joined at the hip for perpetuating record prices for low pop commons and high grade stars to hundreds of PSA registry participants. The mentioned card does not fit into their strong "niche" of value.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>George- I'm amazed that you said all that in only one sentence. Is your computer missing punctuation?<br /><br />Memory Lane caters to the registry crowd. I specialize in early vintage material in various grades. But that is irrelevant. We live in the information age. Anyone who needs to find me does find me. There is no downside to Memory Lane advertising as much as they do but I am will to bet when it comes to 19th century and early 20th century material my mailing list and theirs is roughly the same.<br /><br />When it comes to 1963 Topps high numbers in PSA 9 they are head and shoulders above me because I have never developed that end of the business. But if I had a PSA 9 high number and a set registry guy needed it, he would find me.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>george "bulldog" adams</b><p>hey mikeu fys just too be clear i wasn`t disagreeing about barry being a good choice for auctioning this card i was disagreeing with barry`s comments in his 7:31 msg where he said an auction house is lying if they say they are better at advertising or have bigger client lists. bulldog
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>Tough choices, assuming of course that an auction house is the way you want to go. With Barry Sloate you get complete transparency, with Mastro or Robert Edwards you get name recognition and probably maximum exposure, and with the boutique houses like Memory Lane, Mile High Cards, and Goodwin you get somewhere in between. All of them can present your material in a very attractive manner to potential buyers. Go with who ever you are comfortable dealing with, but remember that the bottom line is the size of the check you will receive when the auction is over.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>George- Memory Lane does more advertising than I do, that's not my complaint. They claim, according to the original poster, to do more advertising than Mastro. If that claim is in fact accurate, I will question it.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>george "bulldog" adams</b><p>barry i think that claim is very accurate mastro does a lot of advertising but nowhere as much as memory lane from what i`ve seen and the memory lane advertising is annoying not mr mint annoying but in your face annoying and it is everywhere mastro like rea has more classy advertising and it doesn`t stand out as much so i don`t think it is as effective. bulldog
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>george "bulldog" adams</b><p>and barry don`t forget you got to request and pay for the mastro catalog at least the 1st time but the memory lane catalog is just sent unsolicited to a very large segment of the hobby for free so it is seen by many more eyes. bulldog
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>So it sounds like Memory Lane may do some unnecessary advertising, because at some point you have diminishing returns.<br /><br />If company A spends $1 million a year on advertising, and company B spends half that much, it's quite possible that company A isn't reaching that many more customers than B is. They certainly won't get twice as many bidders, or significantly higher prices.<br /><br />But they also haven't asked me for advice on how much to spend either.<br /><br />Edited to add that $75 charge is a curiosity. Don't understand the thinking behind it, since I don't believe any other house charges for their catalog.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>If I were considering a consignment, one consideration would be where people interested in my particular item would look. For an N172 HOF, I would not consign it to Memory Lane, no matter how much advertising the do (and I doubt it is more that Mastro). They don't specialize in 19th century material. As people have mentioned, similar items do very well in Barry's auctions as they do in Mastro, REA, etc. <br /><br />By the way, I think Masto and REA advertise in a lot of venues that people who only read baseball card related magazines do not see.<br />jimB
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>rand</b><p>i believe some cards at memory lane do not really change hands, for example the 33 goudey gehrig psa 10. it was sold for $275k, but never removed from the psa registry. the cards they sell are so over priced i have a hard time believing they are all legit. if the IRS were to audit them, i wonder what the outcome would be. i think the amount of advertising a company does at some point just doesn't work anymore. does McDonald's have to advertise on every channel, multiple times a day, 365 days a year? memory lane's advertising costs have to seriously cut into their bottom line, unless its a write off to show losses. Mastro is branching out, they sell Lalique, Oil Paintings, Coins, Currency, Posters, Comics, ect... so they have to reach another audience.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Tony III</b><p>Barry, when is your next auction and consignment deadline?<br />Also, what is your cost to consign?<br /><br />I have bought from you a couple of times in the past and do think you are the best a turntimes and treating your clients like people.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Mastro, hands down. ML's forte is not in the 19th century field. There are also some buyers who will not do business with them for various reasons, so that is a consideration. I've seen good things and had fine dealings with Hugins & Scott and Heritage. REA is first class but you'd have to wait until next year for another auction. <br /><br />Personally, if I knew what I wanted from it, I would BST then try ebay or the auction houses after that. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Hi Tony- please email me at bsloate@att.net. Shouldn't really do this on the board. Thanks, Barry
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Rand, I'm certain that there are some cards in Mastro's acutions that don't change hands either.<br /><br />Maybe Doug can come on and tell me I'm wrong about this one, too.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Denny Walsh</b><p>Barry, Hands down for Nineteenth Century<br /><br />"every psa member gets the catalog and knows when the auction ends"<br /><br />WoW, One Sentence! Had to pull this to disagree.<br />I've been a PSA member for the past 5 years. I've never gotten 1 catalog from them! You are Right about their auction status, Many, many email reminders. I did hear about the chocolate money! Did get any of dat either <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> My children would of enjoy them (me too!) <br /><br />Life's Grand,<br />Denny Walsh
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>rand</b><p>hey Jeff, how are you...<br /><br />funny thing is, when a very high profile card in a psa holder is offered, its very easy to notice when it changes hands on the registry (or does not change hands). i would be surprised if this was the case for Mastro, unless there was a reserve that was not met. ML is what it is, but the money is going somewhere and coming in from somewhere because the business model to me doesn't add up for legit transactions. i remember a 1915 Cracker Jack set Mastro sold off last year went for around $190k or so. You mentioned that you felt the seller really took a bath on it and Mastro may have hurt the potential due to the simultaneous bidding process (bid as individual or group thing). i didn't really have a position on it. However, interesting thing is, i spoke to an elderly gentleman on the phone last Dec (i think in his early 70's). turns out he is in the card restoration business and has the ability to remove glue residue, press out wrinkles, remove stains ect... as he was explaining these things he mentioned a dealer from Cal bought a complete 1915 CJ set all glued in an album for $65k. sent him the entire thing and we was able to restore all but 2-3 cards, then they all got sent off to PSA. I of course, was not there and do not know if its true or not, but it is coincidental and the dealer about triples his money. Mastro had no involvment other than show casing the cards. so in the end, the seller did quite well, and alot of the buyers were happy with their purchase price. <br /><br />i am however very happy with Mastro's new bidding tiers and Doug has been available to speak with when opinions differ. regards
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Doug Allen</b><p>In response to Jeff's recent inquiry....We have instituted reserves in some non sports areas but have never instituted a hidden reserve when selling cards or for that matter any sports memorabilia. We understand that from time to time a bidder may have a buddy bid on an item but if they win it they write a check for it and pay the buyers premium just like everyone else.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>I'd like to see Jeff and Doug have weekly conference calls.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>So, Doug, you're saying that you have never had a card appear to be sold in your auction but have it actually revert back to the consignor with Mastro's knowledge?
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Doug Allen</b><p>We have never had a hidden reserve on a sports card or sports memorabilia item. Further we have never returned an item to the original consignor after a bid was accepted in an auction. Finally, although I expect it has happened I do not have first hand knowledge of a person ultimately getting a card back that they auctioned. I can tell you if it has happened the person paid the buyers premium and did not get a fair advantage over another bidder.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>I don't think there is a single person in the world looking for an N172 Welch who is unaware of Mastro, REA, Barry Sloate, Lew Lipset, etc. Anyone looking for that card or any other Old Judge HOFer gets all of their catalogs and reads them religiously. So, my two cents worth is this -- advertising doesn't matter in the slightest for this card.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Doug Allen</b><p>Actually a good resource would be Hal...ask him. Last year he entrusted us with incredible cards including a T206 Honus Wagner. Every card was promoted to the extreme and given the ultimate exposure. At the same time every card had a ridiculously low minimum bid and it was going to sell for what it sold for. In the case of the T206 Wagner and most of the other cards I am sure he was very satisfied....in the case of some of the other cards he was not so happy but there were no side deals, no reserves. It was a pure auction.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Doug, can you say which of Hal's cards were sold in your auction?
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Doug Allen</b><p>Hal can say...I know he previously mentioned that he gave us a big consignment and it was generally known that the T206 Wagner was his. Beyond that the disclosure is up to him.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br /> I mean this in a kind and respectful way. It seems strange to me that you spend so much energy contending against Mastro and their policies, yet spend tens of thousands (admittedly on your part) with them. Do scruples go out the window when a desired card appears? From this end, it seems so. Interested to read your reply.<br /><br />James
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>James, fair question. And I will answer it but I'm afraid if I do answer it completely honestly I'll unnecssarily embarass Doug which I don't want to do -- this isn't a bash Mastro thread. Perhaps I'll give a fuller version to you via email.<br /><br />In short, I know what Mastro is and I bid accordingly.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>rand</b><p>Jeff... i guess at the end of the day, you must spend enough money with Mastro for them to take so much grief. Have you ever been banned by them? would you share some of the other auction companies you bid with besides REA & Ebay. regards
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Doug Allen</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />If you didn't want to embarrass me you would call me....you have my number and I am very accessible.<br /><br />Same thing happened a few weeks ago with Jim Crandall...I offered to talk to him on the phone - he never called. I offered to meet him for lunch or dinner in New York - he indicated we would get together and he never responsed.<br /><br />Seriously call me and air your concerns. If you honestly believe there was some bidding impropriety or a situation where a consignor got a card back I would appreciate if you would discuss this with me prior to communicating it on a public Board.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Doug
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>I'd like to be the first to nominate Doug as a regular to the board. That's five posts in the same thread! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Doug, I noticed that all of Hal's Old Judges, 1873 Boston Cabinet and Allegheny Bresnahan found their way into Barry's auction directly after they were in Mastro's auction recently. I'm wondering if in fact it is true that Hal was the consignor both times.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>Jeff - you are relentless! What are you trying to investigate? You think Mastro Auctions didn't really sell Hal's cards, because Barry had them for auction later? Why would Mastro Auctions even do this? What purpose what it serve? Who cares?
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Tom Nieves</b><p>I care.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>I understand Jeff's concern with the potential use of 'hidden reserves' and so on, but Doug Allen has already denied that Mastro Auctions has ever used such tactics in connection with a sports card or memorabilia lot, and I believe him. I don't even care where Barry Sloate got the cards. Can we just move on now?
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Doug Allen</b><p>Jeff et al,<br /><br />I have to be very careful how I respond due to privacy issues. I think this answers the question....Hal Lewis was not the bidder of record on the lots in question (note I am not confirming he was the consignor....just confirming he was not the bidder). In addition I can confirm that the winning bidder was charged the full buyers premium and this amount was fully paid for. After that I have no idea who consigned them to Barry.<br /><br />Anticipating a flood of these types of questions I will not be answering them on this forum. If you are concerned about this type of activity my e-mail and phone lines are open.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Doug
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Doug, I'm sure Hal will want to come on and straighten this all out. Surely any privacy issues of Hal can be waived by him should he so choose. <br /><br />As for calling you, in retrospect I think the public forum works better as these are issues important to the hobby and those on this board -- and your posts and admissions are available to anyone who might wander over here. Therefore, this is good for you and Mastro as it allows you to air your positions on such important matters and to clear up any misconceptions that might exist by the card-buying public. Agreed?
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />"Doug, I'm sure Hal will want to come on and straighten this all out."<br /><br />Not sure what there is to straighten out -- unless that is you think Doug is lying. He said point blank that Hal did not bid on any of his lots that ended up in Barry's auction, and that whoever did paid in full for them (including the BP). <br /><br />If in fact Hal felt the prices were not high enough or for some other reason bought back through an intermediary some of his cards, what is Mastro supposed to do? I recall a thread about this issue several weeks ago and Barry Sloate, as trusted and respected as any board member or auctioneer, himself stated that as long as the consignor is not doing the bidding and in the absence of uncontrovertible evidence the bid is being placed on behalf of the consignor, he will accept the bid. <br /><br />I might add that I am not that naive to believe that in the hobby overall all reported auction "sales" actually took place. However, if I was charged with investigating this practice within the hobby, I would find my time much better spent by focusing on auction houses other than Mastro.
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Mastro or Memory Lane
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Corey, respectfully I'd disagree with your last sentence/conclusion.<br /><br /><br /><br />
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