Originally Posted by drumback (Post 2299414)

Those are NOT nicknames. They are terms of ridicule and derision. We don't have to continue using them today, and we shouldn't. He was Billy Hoy. He was Luther Taylor.

And while I'm at it, he was Albert Bender, not Chief. The taunts and insults heaped upon him were despicable. There are many others. . .

Originally Posted by jakebeckleyoldeagleeye (Post 2299424)

Hoy referred to himself as Dummy so it didn't bother him. I wonder what Old Eagle thought of him since they were teammates on the Reds?

Originally Posted by todeen (Post 2299428)

who is Old Eagle? He doesn't pop up on a Google Search. It keeps bringing up Tris Speaker instead - "Grey Eagle."

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by drumback (Post 2299414)

Those are NOT nicknames. They are terms of ridicule and derision. We don't have to continue using them today, and we shouldn't. He was Billy Hoy. He was Luther Taylor.

And while I'm at it, he was Albert Bender, not Chief. The taunts and insults heaped upon him were despicable. There are many others. . .

Originally Posted by chjh (Post 2299497)

WHEN DID THE WORD “DUMMY” BECOME DEROGATORY?

https://blog.leeandlow.com/2012/08/1...me-derogatory/

In the 21st century, it has become common practice to use “dummy” with insulting intentions. It’s not surprising that some people may feel confused about why William encouraged people to call him “Dummy.” In this passage from Silent Star, author Bill Wise offers an explanation:

“Today calling a deaf person dumb would be derogatory and offensive, but in Hoy’s day it was acceptable. Hoy carried his nickname with pride. Dummy became the name he preferred, and he often corrected people who called him William.”


William was born in 1862. By then, some version of the word “dumb” had existed within the English language for hundreds of years and meant, “silent, unable to speak.” As English became influenced by German, the definition of “stupid” was also adopted; this occurred in the 1800’s.

Today, synonyms for “dummy” include “airhead,” “dimwit” and “idiot.” Under conventional circumstances, those words don’t promote positive feelings for anyone within society, much less those who are deaf. As a result, the deaf community no longer uses the word “dummy.” They have also acquired a much more negative view towards the terms “deaf-mute” and “deaf and dumb,” especially since most people who are deaf can learn how to speak.

Originally Posted by chjh (Post 2299337)

https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Natura.../dp/B08L7YKYMR

This is one of my favorite baseball movies. Dummy Hoy was inducted into the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame in 2003.

Hoy is the most accomplished deaf player in MLB history, and is credited by some sources with causing the establishment of signals for safe and out calls.

Hoy is one of three outfielders to throw out three base runners at home plate in one game. On June 19, 1889, he threw perfect strikes to catcher Connie Mack to throw out runners attempting to score from second base.

Upon his death in 1961 at the age of 99, Hoy was the longest-lived former MLB player ever.

At the time of his death, Dummy Hoy was the last surviving participant of both the American Association and the Players' League.

Originally Posted by puckpaul (Post 2299395)

Have a few Dummy Hoys (and Dummy Taylors, those old folks sure were creative in their deaf nicknames!). Including an early program featuring Hoy and his National copper plate, and signed balls of each.

I missed out on an N173 cabinet of Hoy, anyone have one of those? My friend was distracted and missed the live auction lot it was in, was supposed to try to buy it for me…oops.

Originally Posted by scotgreb (Post 2299371)

Great stuff -- looking forward to the movie.

Another pose of Mr. Hoy

Attachment 550130

Originally Posted by chjh (Post 2299337)

https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Natura.../dp/B08L7YKYMR

This is one of my favorite baseball movies. Dummy Hoy was inducted into the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame in 2003.

Hoy is the most accomplished deaf player in MLB history, and is credited by some sources with causing the establishment of signals for safe and out calls.

Hoy is one of three outfielders to throw out three base runners at home plate in one game. On June 19, 1889, he threw perfect strikes to catcher Connie Mack to throw out runners attempting to score from second base.

Upon his death in 1961 at the age of 99, Hoy was the longest-lived former MLB player ever.

At the time of his death, Dummy Hoy was the last surviving participant of both the American Association and the Players' League.

Originally Posted by drumback (Post 2299414)

Those are NOT nicknames. They are terms of ridicule and derision. We don't have to continue using them today, and we shouldn't. He was Billy Hoy. He was Luther Taylor.

And while I'm at it, he was Albert Bender, not Chief. The taunts and insults heaped upon him were despicable. There are many others. . .

Originally Posted by perezfan (Post 2299607)

What about Rube (as in Foster and Waddell?) Is it still acceptable to call them that, or is that name cancelled as well?

Originally Posted by jakebeckleyoldeagleeye (Post 2299468)

Come on man it's BBHOF'er Jake Beckley. He was born and is buried here in my hometown of Hannibal, Missouri.

Originally Posted by drumback (Post 2299414)

Those are NOT nicknames. They are terms of ridicule and derision. We don't have to continue using them today, and we shouldn't. He was Billy Hoy. He was Luther Taylor.

And while I'm at it, he was Albert Bender, not Chief. The taunts and insults heaped upon him were despicable. There are many others. . .

Originally Posted by chjh (Post 2299497)

WHEN DID THE WORD “DUMMY” BECOME DEROGATORY?

https://blog.leeandlow.com/2012/08/1...me-derogatory/

In the 21st century, it has become common practice to use “dummy” with insulting intentions.

Originally Posted by perezfan (Post 2299607)

What about Rube (as in Foster and Waddell?) Is it still acceptable to call them that, or is that name cancelled as well?

Originally Posted by chjh (Post 2299628)

Steve,

Thanks for sharing the additional info about the production of The Silent Natural. You all involved in the movie should be very proud. It shows a good perspective on life back then, good info on the early days of baseball, and the story of Dummy Hoy overcoming his disability.

Originally Posted by Tabe (Post 2299701)

You'll be pleased to know that Baseball Reference made the decision a couple years ago to update their site to list such players by their real names instead of those "nicknames".

Originally Posted by puckpaul (Post 2299576)

Well, in today’s context, i “hear” you. But both Hoy and Taylor had NO problem signing baseballs with “Dummy” in the signature, so I hardly feel like i should change how i refer to them.

I have severe hearing loss which drew me to collecting Dummy Hoy items. Proud of them.

Sadder is that people today are still uncomfortable with people with hearing loss, and they are not any more welcoming in this era of “DEI”.

Originally Posted by dmyhoy (Post 2299814)

You might have to ask who is an expert in Rube. But if you are talking about Rube, then I would believe its alright unless otherwise instructed.

Originally Posted by chjh (Post 2299337)

https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Natura.../dp/B08L7YKYMR

This is one of my favorite baseball movies. Dummy Hoy was inducted into the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame in 2003.

Hoy is the most accomplished deaf player in MLB history, and is credited by some sources with causing the establishment of signals for safe and out calls.

Hoy is one of three outfielders to throw out three base runners at home plate in one game. On June 19, 1889, he threw perfect strikes to catcher Connie Mack to throw out runners attempting to score from second base.

Upon his death in 1961 at the age of 99, Hoy was the longest-lived former MLB player ever.

At the time of his death, Dummy Hoy was the last surviving participant of both the American Association and the Players' League.