One piece of advice for a vintage collector starting out
 

I went to a card show last week and met up with a few collectors. One brought their younger son (20s) who is just getting into vintage collecting. He previously collected high end modern, but recently switched to vintage.

He asked us to give him one piece of advice from our years of collecting. One guy said “you can’t go wrong with prewar”. Another said “focus on star rookies first”.

My advice (which I stated on the board before) is “the good stuff doesn’t go down in price. Buy it as soon as you can”.

What would be your one piece of advice to this collector?

If they are buying as a collector.

It would be buy what you like, buy the card not the grade and enjoy.

If they are buying as an investor/flipper

Focus on the big name players of the era they are buying and stay focus on their collection strategy

Depends on the amount of money
I would start out with in order
Cap Anson
Ty Cobb
Babe Ruth
Wagner
Mathewson
Walter Johnson
Cy Young
And my advice is don’t get all excited and sell when they go up 50%, you’ll make way more in the long run, there are so many people with sellers remorse, wish I would of held it longer…..

The advice of course needs to match the person and the goal.

Is the goal eventual profit? And if so, how soon. Like will they abandon the hobby and cash out in 5 years? 10? 20?

Is the goal finding less common things that maybe aren't all that pricy? Lots of sets are harder than they seem at first, even team sets

Or maybe finding things that represent the era they were made in historically? Like a really nice example or two of say one card from each decade 1880's till 1940's.

I've collected, at times more at times less, for 40-50 years. With that much time, even some of my worse buys look at least acceptable, while some of my sales/trades look pretty bad.

I've mostly been an opportunistic collector, picking up interesting things now and then.
My wife finally summed it up, saying I enjoyed the hunt more than the catching.
Would I have done much better financially if I had some focus, or concentrated on HOF players or higher grade cards? Yes, and a do regret that a bit. But I think I wouldn't have had as much fun, or learned as much.

So my advice would be to collect what you want the way you want. Focus on the enjoyment, and the rest will work out.

If you are going into the hobby to try to supplement your income or fund your retirement, buy PSA graded only.

Never assume that you can submit a card and have it regraded and improve the grade.

If you really like a card, buy an even better one.

Don’t love things that can’t love you back.

Same as any young collector I talk to -

1. Don't get in over your head.

2. Buy cheap ungraded older collector cards so you learn the feel, look and general knowledge of what you are collecting prior to real spending. I have met so many people that get in and get victimized fast.

3. Knowledge is power, learn everything you can. Add a Standard Catalog to the back of your toilet for many years so you can peruse in your business time, lol.

4. Absolutely nothing is guaranteed, only new collectors think nothing can ever go down. It can, and hard. Perhaps the 40+ year collector guys like me have had a decent majority go up, but so does the value of a dollar in comparison. If you are in for the short haul, honestly stay the hell out for now. Buying at a peak lost at lot of people a fortune in the last year. If you are in for life, buy what you love and enjoy. If you hold it for a decade or more, you will probably make more than your interest on a bank account.

Buy cards of players who are not only popular now but who will be popular in twenty years. I would eliminate Anson from any list.

Buy cards of great women athletes--woman's sports will only gain in popularity. This isn't necessarily vintage but good general advice.

Be very careful with high-grade raw vintage of key players. Many have been altered and rejected by grading companies. That is why they are being sold raw.

I guess my question would be is he getting into vintage to invest for the future or because he likes the vintage world and wants to have a beautiful collection of history.

1) if its to invest, collect the big stars. Ruth, Mantle, Jackie, Cobb, Wagner. There prices will always rise and cards will always be in heavy demand.
2) If its to collect, collect what you love. Players, teams, certain card types.
3) don't try and collect everything. I still kind of have this problem. Focus on one area whether it be a player run, a set etc. and work on that. You will never come close to completing a project if you keep jumping around.
4) Understand that vintage grading is very different then modern grading. A 1940 7 is completely different than a 2023 7.
5) Ask questions and do your research. Don't be afraid to talk with vintage dealers and ask questions. Most of them just love talking about vintage baseball, or a player, or a rare set.
6) Dont expect to do a quick flip and make a ton of money. Vintage cards are like the Dow Jones. You wont see any difference in the short run. But in the long run, it continues to gradually increase.

A lot of good advice here.

I would only add "Research", part of the fun for me is researching sets, players, rarity, etc. Understand the stories of candy & tobacco cards along with other issues. The history of this stuff is half the fun.

My advice based on my own successes and failures...

1. Join Net54 and look at the monthly pick-up threads... continually. Get to know what is in the markets, the players, the types, the interest level, etc.

2. Any card type you don't know about, if you can get a cheap beater of it, get one. Get to know the shape and feel and look of it in hand.

3. Learn your vices. Recognize any addictive or obsessive tendencies and do the work to manage them early.

4. Develop a focus you can have conviction about. Are you a collector? what type of collector? what end? where is your joy and is it proportional to what you are putting into it? Are you a collector/investor? Are you an investor? Are you in the business of it? There is too much one can do, and too much out there to not have an identity and a plan, and a plan that you truly care about (or else the plan goes out the window).

5. Meet and get to know many other collectors in person. This is rare for me, most of the people I "know" are my virtual friends. But the few I have got to know even a little bit in person make the hobby better for me. It also seems true that in-person connections open up possibilities for buying, selling, or trading that you otherwise wouldn't have.

6. At the beginning, set a goal for something modest in price but somewhat challenging in how long it might take to complete. Chasing a pre-war goal often provides an expansive education beyond just the scope of the goal.

.

Don't spend big dollars on high grade commons. You'll enjoy more spending your money on high eye appeal cards from star players instead, even at lower grades.

Also paraphrasing what another poster said in "Don't get in over your head," I would say, "Don't borrow money to buy cards." There are always stories of folks making big money investing using leverage on Wall Street, but it usually doesn't end well when beginners do this.

Figure out what percentage of your income you want to invest.

Buy the nicest item you can afford.

Quality over quantity.

You can’t go wrong with any of the “Super” HOFers as mentioned above, agreeing with Jay to keep an eye on other key figures like Pele, Ali, Owens, Walt Disney, Marilyn Monroe, etc….

Reward yourself and have some special cards you want to “take to the grave” and don’t be afraid to over pay for them, in the moment. The future will normally reward you if you ever sell or want to play show and tell.

Lastly, everything is always for sale and don’t idolize or put your collection on a higher pedestal than your real life and relationships. It can become addictive and then your OCD takes over

Eye appeal - centering, tilt cuts, print dots/blips, focus, color. Even consider the picture itself - do you like the look f the picture, maybe an action shot, maybe a head shot with a nice smile, you get the point.

It's sure nice to have the high eye appeal cards, they look awesome. Those are the ones that are keepers.

Over the years, I have tended to sell off the cards that don't quite speak to me. What you are left with are cards you are honestly proud to own and look great.

One last thing—most of the time when someone gives you advice involving absolutes it is safe to take that advice with a large grain of salt. People like to say that collecting Cobb, Ruth, Mantle etc is a sure thing. Over time they will ALWAYS increase in value. They have certainly increased in value over the last thirty years but there is absolutely no assurance that they will increase in value over the next thirty. In fact, there is no assurance that many people will even be collecting these little pieces of paper in thirty years. Buy what you like with your disposable income but don’t assume that what you buy will be worth more when it comes time to sell it. These collectibles have no intrinsic value—remember that.

NEVER MIX EMOTIONS WITH INVESTING...

If you consider cards as investments or as the Late PWCC Calls them "Assets" keep emotions and feelings out of it.

If you consider your collection as a hobby filled with fun and enjoyment, buy what you love and don't let anyone steal your joy :-) best piece of advice I can give you is, Life is to Short have fun and be Kind to one another.

I call it Opportunity Accost:
When you come across a serious card (whether you need it or not) with a price that tells you if you don’t buy it right now, the very next person who sees it will immediately jump on it...YOU NEED TO BUY IT!!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...287e77ebb5.jpg

Try to collect the original 5 at some point


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you're collecting cards in lower-to-mid range "grade" types (this is most of what I do), wait until you get one you can live with.

If you get a card like this just because the price is right you'll end up in constant upgrading loops.

I don't mind upgrading something so rare it barely comes up for sale, but when there's many times a year you can take a shot at something it's worth waiting.

If you do buy low grade I’d make sure it’s centered and has great clarity. Make it stand out from all the rest!!!!

Impossible to answer without knowing the person's objective or how much he has to spend. Is it investment only? Then buy Babe Ruth.

To expand on the part I made bold. The majority of people in the hobby WILL try to take advantage of you. It is why many get into or come back to the hobby only to get right back out of it. It is a small pond hobby full of big aggressive fish.

Don’t think the majority of people are going to try to take advantage of you.

9/10 people are going to be solid folks in my experience. It’s just that 1 dork who screws someone over who brings negative attention to the hobby.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jay, may you never make it as a fortune teller!

“Collector grade” cards need love too. Not everything needs to be mint.

This would be my second piece of advice. My first would be extremely skeptical of advice given by old men with fat wallets. If I had gotten some of the advice above when I got back into collecting as an adult, I probably would have immediately taken up a different hobby.

As it was, I wasn't the recipient of such sage council, so I happily built mid to late 1970s sets and didn't move on to other, more expensive sets until my disposable income increased. Which, leads to the quoted wisdom from BeanTown.

I’ve noticed a strong ebb and flow in my years since of collecting since the beginning of the 80s. When the hobby is strong, the douchebags multiply like algae on a hot summers day. When the market is weak, they hustle somewhere else and they are just here and there. Seems at the moment if you search “baseball cards” on YouTube or TikTok you will find some serious algae. :D

For many of us it’s the search for a really good card at a great price. The way to make money on the card when ever you decide to get rid if it, is the profits come from when you buy smart. Then hold, hold, hold. It’s crazy what your collection will be in a decade or two.

Enjoy the process. Have fun with it.

There is no easy money. Collect what you like, spend what you can afford to lose. The "good times have been really rolling for about a decade, and people have a short memory when it comes to the dark times, as the Last boom period was late 1980s. It's been 30 years!

Network, make friends, and enjoy the ride

Lot's of thought provoking stuff...

I like that observation about needing to know the person and the goal to give advise that fits. Who here knows what a Brannock Device is? Almost all, but most of those don't know that they know the name... It's that clunky thing in the shoe stores of the past that had sliding parts to determine shoe size and foot width. Those guys measured the foot before throwing a shoe on the foot.

Early on I discovered a neighbor who knew tons about what I consider old baseball history. I wish I'd talked with him about baseball much sooner. Later, I found out he had old cards. Occasionally he'd call me, and he'd then show me a few cards he wanted to sell. He was firm on his prices, the prices were low and always reasonable. I didn't pick and choose through his cards, I'm certain that I never saw them all. Everything he had that I saw was from between about 1909 and the early 1930s, mainly the early 1910's. He had cards I'd not ever seen, such as DeLong's. And I hadn't heard of DeLong's, either. He thought I should have a DeLong's card of Jimmie Foxx, so I bought it... I'm now glad I did.

So, I still have that Foxx card. I agree with making an acquaintance with a collector who has cards of the era in which this new collector has interest. I agree with being able to see and touch the cards, to get to know what the cards should look like (that'll help in determining authenticity). Knowledge is power, I'm in agreement with that; READ... The Standard Catalog, Mr. Lipset's Books, Mr. Sugar's Sports Collectors Bible (3rd or 4th edition), and if the collector is interested in !880s - 1890s cards, Goodwin & Co OLD JUDGE Photographic Baseball Cards 1886-1890. The goal is to know and understand what you want to collect. If he's wanting to collect Brooklyn Dodgers cards, then he doesn't really need to know about Wagner, Cobb, Johnson, Mathewson, Ruth, Gehrig, Cy Young....

I feel like I'm echoing Mr. Robinson's advice to Dustin Hoffman in The Graduate, when he says "Plastics". BLACK LIGHT
A collector who doesn't get a black light and learn about fluorescence is potentially cheating himself...

An older collector from when I was young suggested to try to not buy cards twice. If you buy a really ragged card that you don't like, you'll end up buying a better example later. I've had that happen to me a few times... and he was right. But the factors of how good of a card (condition) can you afford, and how often is the particular card available.... still, buying a certain card twice can be frustrating.

Make a list of all the things you might want to collect and focus on whichever ones are currently least popular with other collectors. Those are the ones least likely to decline in value.

My one piece of advice, don't buy high grade cards with small borders. I look at some of these graded cards, nowadays, and ask myself where did the borders go??
.

75% of the fun of this hobby is "the hunt", so don't rush it. the right stuff is out there for those who are patient. 15% is research. Knowledge is power and research is key, and is also fun to do. The remaining 10% is just looking at, and loving the cards you have. All of these are amazing and irreplaceable fun.

I find that's only trivially true -- that is, it's true as long as you define the good stuff a priori to only include the things that don't go down in price or only include periods of time over which they haven't decreased in price. I've lost several thousand in value in the last few years on Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, Cassius Clay, Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordan, and Tom Brady. If you take the popular advice that the most popular cards of the biggest stars are "the good stuff," well, good luck to you, but that's really just the stuff that has the most potential to plummet in value.

One of the wonders of our hobby and love of old baseball cards is the baseball knowledge we acquire and the more of it we want. If you love the game then cards are a natural extension, and if we bought, say, a N172 Tip O'Neil, we want to more about the man, the player.
Cards can be addictive, just watch the wide-eyed wolves at the Nat'l this year, if you are going, foaming at the mouth. Please never extend yourself financially buying cards. I believe such gimmicks as fractional ownership, leveraged loans are inherently dangerous for the prudent man and are an ugly side of our capitalist system.

This. Buy non-graded, and then move into graded. You need to hold cards first for the most knowledge.

When I started my more streamlined and focused Cubs collection in the 90s after spending the 80s chasing rookies and other "hot" cards as a kid, it was easy to include the Ron Santo, Billy Williams, and Rick Reuschel level cards.

Diving deep and expanding what I want for my personal collection led to learn a lot about minor role players with interesting careers with the Cubs like hitter-turned-pitcher Hal Jeffcoat from the late-40s into the 50s. Looking for guys like that led to even deeper dives and adding 1800s pitcher-turned-hitter George Van Haltren.

The cards brought me to the history. The hunt for history brought me more cards to add to my collection.

I enjoy that part as much as the cards, themselves.

Collect what you are passionate about. If you admire Jackie Robinson and want to collect his cards and memorabilia, do it and don't worry about the rest. If Ty Cobb leaves you cold, skip him. It's YOUR collection. if you are in this to make money, you are not a collector, you are an investor, and what you like/want is irrelevant.

Most important of all: we are all just a bunch of idiots pontificating on a chat board :D

You and I both know the answer to that question.

My advice to anyone starting out would be:

1. Decide what you like and collect that. Not what's hot or trendy.
2. Buy the highest grade/best condition you can afford. And I don't mean just the number on a flip. When you decide to sell in 20-30 years, or your descendants in 80 years, condition sells.

Buy centered cards

+1 and preferably with big borders!!

advice
 

Since this person is coming from modern to vintage, one key piece of advice is that vintage moves at a different (slower) pace vs modern. It's a "buy and hold" versus a "buy to flip" mentality. That is tough to overcome if you're not used to it. Similar to blue chip stocks versus penny stocks. It's a completely different mindset so you need to be aware of that.

+1 to Ray Van analogy

Before jumping “all in” buy some raw affordable examples to hold in your and get to know what authentic cards look like and feel like so you can have more confidence buying cards in the future.

Until you can tell the fakes from real cards buy slabbed cards.

Can’t people just buy cards for shi$s and giggles anymore. All this invest and gotta buy only the HOF. What if I don’t like the HOF players? What if I like the Oscar Gambles and the Ralph Garrs of the world. This hobby used to be for enjoyment and relaxation not telling people who to buy because you think it’s going to [emoji409][emoji409][emoji409][emoji409] Yes I love when my cards go up, maybe I can sell a couple to buy more cards. If you don’t collect what you enjoy you’ll be outta cards quickly. My friend just had to show me this card the other day. It was some Julio Urias card that looked like a playing card. He loved it ! He was going to a signing to get it signed. Was paying $140. I didn’t tell him I thought that was nuts. I loved it because he got into cards buying what he likes. Maybe he’ll stay collecting with his son who is the one that got him into it. I still have hope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk