PWCC PSA2 T3 Cobb
 

Anyone have thoughts about the PSA2 T3 Cobb that PWCC just listed? Given everything that has come out recently, is it worth bidding on?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-T3-Tur...MAAOSwndZdHlBb

They also have an SGC 1.5 with 2 pinholes listed, but I am trying to avoid cards with pinholes.

Getting an error trying to use your link

I just tried it again and it worked ok for me. Here it is again.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-T3-Tur...MAAOSwndZdHlBb

Dear Abby,

I am asking for your advice about bidding on a PWCC auction.

Sincerely,



Try this, just copy and paste and send to www.DearAbby.com

Lol made a comment on the wrong card , sorry haha

working now.

Now to answer your question. PWCC has nothing worth bidding on, unless you want to support a corrupt company who has worked hand in glove for years with some of the wort people in the hobby. Then, have at it!

The SGC card has an arrow pointing to Cobb's name on the back. I don't see a mark on the PSA 2 listing. Where are you seeing a pen mark?

It's a nice card that although accurately graded presents well for the grade. There is no pen mark on the card.

Good to know that it is quote, "seldom seen on the market as nearly all our locked up within private investment portfolios".

I didn't realize that collectors had completely given way to private investment portfolios. And maybe when they claim that all our locked up, they're looking into their own prospective futures.

I would not bid. But I will never bid with PWCC again, irrespective of what the card is. I've already missed out on some cards that were high on my list, but they weren't high enough for me to sink that low. Stuff should not trump all IMO. That is my personal belief. However, to each their own I suppose.

As I've said, Isis could run a successful auction if they had the "stuff." People would make excuses or just not care because it is so important to have that card.

Well, they know what the definition of is is.

Support fraud. Go for it.

Seriously? Support that jerk off, but then dont come crying here, to blow out, or Ebay when you see you've been cheated. ANY card that has a shot of being doctored is won by Moser, then consigned back. Many cards have been shilled or won by pwcc himself or Moser to be relisted. If anyone here thinks they "got one over" on ole Brentsy boy, you didnt.

Assuming you don't mean the hot 1970's TV show super hero on after Shazam! :)

And pardon the harshness

But I suggest you do some homework on t3s.

Clearly has been pressed, upper left and lower right. Looks like a pin hole filled, and two erasure marks around his name

This.

Or... just wait for another T3 Cobb to be sold by someone not so associated with shilling/altered cards/fraud/etc.

Choice should be pretty easy.

Well the blow out guys just posted it. From PSA A to a PSA 2

Big surprise

"That's okay; I only collect low grade."

So good that we can trust all the players to do the right thing and police themselves...

Wonder who the consignor is?

Any questions NOW why I would never buy from PWCC?

This is really the help I was asking for - if anyone knew if the card had been included in any of the lists of cards known to be altered. Thanks for pointing this out.

I think there are two approaches in light of PWCC’s involvement with recent developments: bid knowing that you may end up with a tainted card all while supporting a business that has caused irreparable harm to the hobby or don’t ever bid with them and put your time and effort into finding other examples of the card that fit your collection and budget with more reputable dealers. I chose the second option, even if the journey to find the right card takes much longer.


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That's how it goes with PWCC.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3789

[QUOTE=frankbmd;1895830]Dear Abby,

I am asking for your advice about bidding on a PWCC auction.

Sincerely,



Ann Lander's saying was "Wake up and smell the coffee"

[QUOTE=drcy;1896031]Or wait for Juan Valdez's donkey to crap on your lap

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In fairness to PWCC I bought this card a couple of years ago and consigned it recently. It was purchased on Ebay from a seller other than PWCC. Neither Brent nor I suspected it may have been altered. I will probably just pull the listing and determine what to do with it next.

[QUOTE=Republicaninmass;1896034]Juan Valdez’s donkey was Colombian. In Costa Rica, a fellow really named Juan Valdez was used in an advertising campaign promoting Costa Rican coffee. I do not believe a donkey was used in the Costa Rican ads.

You can’t learn shit like this on any other baseball card message board.;)

Thanks for that Scott. Made me laugh!

Hell to the no. No no no no no. If this T3 is a PSA 2 mine should be 7's. My guess is they're trying to get rid of their inventory under the radar. Don't fall for it.

Please do. Also clarify who exactly you purchased it from as that eBay sale should pop up upon running the cert number through PSA.

PSA site is not entirely reliable in identifying sales.

My purchase is recorded on vcp if anyone cares to verify what I wrote.

Tried following the VCP link on the blowout post, and got ….

A black page with small text saying "Only gold members can view auction images click here to upgrade"

Really? This Cobb is yours? At this point in time we know Brent sees dollar signs and is full of it, and we clearly can’t accept his opinion on anything in this hobby he is doing such great things for.

You now own a T3 Cobb that had pencil marks clearly on the O’s in Cobb and clearly erased now with the before and after photos.

Sorry for your loss, but at least someone else won’t be duped and assuming you bought it in the PSA 2 holder you can try and take it up with PSA to get your money back?

And for anyone interested here is the link to BO with the Cobb and a couple others including a T206 Matty Portrait with apparent Moser ties.... who Brent and Betsy are no longer selling any cards of BTW...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1304350

And since I’m on a roll here... Jesse I would think this comment from you was a bit inappropriate since you’re the consigned... saying it presents well for the grade is not an unbiased opinion....

In the same thread he said on his own that it is his, so it can be forgiven.

OK. I think it is not wrong to say that I am not a Jesse fan. But fair is fair. He fessed up, and I am good with that. Thank you for at least being honest.

This is just proof that stuff trumps everything. The fact that you care more about the specific card than the seller is just....

Regardless it is incorrect. However with "blood in the streets ", as one poster mentioned, surrounding some questionable bidding, ie irrefutable proof of their ID and Whitman running up auctions,doctored cards, including ones PWCC bought themselves having been doctored, etc. Quite a risk consigning to them at this time. I've never been one to spell things out for others, but it's getting easier to connect the dots day in and day out.

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No, I would not & will not bid on his auctions.

I figured it was clear from my comment that it was my card. Why else would I write it? How would I know it presents well if I hadn't seen it in hand? It was no secret I owned the card. I posted it here in the BST a while back. And I PM'd the OP at the same time I wrote that comment ironically to assure him it wasn't a Moser consignment but was mine and shouldn't be assumed to be altered because of where it is currently listed.

It was 100% unclear based on your initial comment. It would have been clear if you wrote in your post that it was your card. You didn’t write that until much later, which based on your analysis would have been unnecessary, so not sure why you needed to state it later then.

At any rate, good luck getting your money back, because in all seriousness it does suck that PSA gave it a PSA 2 when it’s altered. Or perhaps Darby-S will refund you if you haven’t reached out to him yet.

I could see you weren't the only one who did not make the connection. It was clear to me, but obviously not everyone else. Others were calling out PWCC and wondering who consigned it. So I clarified.

the connection was neither obvious nor implied.

It was a very shaky connection like a Legos tower after the earthquake.:eek:

dunno Frank...the lego structures I made as a kid were solid as a rock!!!!!

Too soon?

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I guess if I had upcoming consignments with PWCC, I'd be desperately trying to convince people to buy them. This would Include but not limited to:

Defending pwcc
Telling people it's a good time to buy from pwcc
Not all their cards are altered

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I think in the context of this particular thread people are being unfair to Jesse. He bought the card from Dan McKee who is a legend here, why would he think the card had been altered? (Perhaps Dan will enlighten us from whom he acquired it.)

He then stated his opinion of and some factual information about the card which obviously showed he had seen the card. The OP had specifically asked about the card, I don't see Jesse responding to him as trying to pimp his own auction or vouch for PWCC. And as soon as the alteration was identified, he confirmed it was his card as some people had not understood that, and indicated he was going to have the card pulled.

Thanks Peter. As I mentioned earlier I emailed the OP to pet him know it was my consignment and I did not believe it was altered. I stated the card presents well because the minor creases and any damage is mostly on the border only and the image and color is nice. That's why I bought it in the first place.

I am certainly not desperately running around trying to pump up my own auctions or consignments. But since it was called into question I responded.

If it comes from PWCC it's FAKE PERIOD.

Jesse, this is a crappy situation- you bought this card from Dan, who is a good guy and very knowledgeable (not pwcc), and I am sure you felt comfortable with the purchase given the seller and the PSA “stamp of approval”. But now it’s been called out, and I must admit that it appears your card has indeed been tampered with (altered). So what now? I see it’s still live for sale on pwcc. Do you just leave it there and let it ride or do you pull it? Do you, or someone else, inform pwcc (I am sure they know already)?

What becomes of a card currently in a live auction, consigned by a board member to pwcc, that has very likely been altered and improperly graded by PSA?

I’m sure Jesse will do the right thing and pull the card...

Please let us know how it goes with PSA in terms of getting your “guarantee” fulfilled. We would love to see a concrete example of PSA making good on their guarantee. PWCC has issued a few recent refunds. But very eager to hear if PSA will honor their word and make you whole.

Let us know....

A. If they make the return process customer-friendly (at least as easy as it is when THEY take YOUR money). You now have concrete evidence, after all.

B. If they try to push back, and say that you need to be made whole by the seller.

C. If they do refund you, how long is the wait to receive your money from PSA?

I personally am not holding my breath, but perhaps they’ll do the right thing? You could represent the first documented example on net54. :rolleyes:

I reached out to Brent as soon as I became aware. Either the description will be updated to note the alteration or the listing will be pulled.

Jesse bought this card from Dan McKee.

Waiting to hear who Dan picked it up from

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You are a good man - that’s 100% the right move IMO.

Agreed... good job. :)

Glad Jesse went the route he is going, but it does bug me to see board members still doing business with PWCC. "Because they get the best prices" trumps "Because they are fundamentally unethical" I guess.

And if anyone cares, I had consigned several big items to PWCC before I bought the company I now own. I was definitely a devil's advocate on their behalf for quite some time, so this isn't just a little guy who's happy to take punches at a big guy. However I might well be a little guy who's sick of seeing the devious ways some of these companies BECAME big guys, so I guess weigh that with my responses.

Agreed.

I think the right thing to do is pull it and take it out of circulation and recert it back as an AUTH. Otherwise someone else could buy it and then sell it without disclosure.

PWCC may just shill the disclosed listing to PSA 2 market value and then say look it didn't matter.

Look at it this way...the one and only reason any of this came to light was BECAUSE he listed it with Pwcc. Had he not it almost certainly would have gone under the radar.

Pulling the auction would be the right thing to do. Leaving it would just let someone else eventually get screwed by owning a altered card.

A card on my want list showed up on Ebay yesterday or today. I almost placed a snipe on the card when I realized it was being sold by PWCC. Nope, they are not getting my business. Will just have to wait on the card.

A saw a sweet i think it was a 68 topps Managers dream sgc "10 mint" I wanted to bid on. I saw it had been sold by pwcc a while back and I didnt bid, nor will I in any card that ever crossed his path

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Yeah, that's the great thing about VCP research, you can track a card back.

You are definitely a glass half full kinda guy!

Lol. That being said, hope everyone (and their cards) out there are ok!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f3k...outu.be&t=1680

Brent says here he cannot edit an auction once it starts. So is Brent really going to amend to disclose that one of his listings is in fact altered? Recall the Mantle that started it all. I would just instruct him to take the card down, now. Even if he discloses, it's just a problem when the buyer tries to clean up on a later listing without disclosing.

Get a refund through McKee or compensation from PSA.

After discussion with Brent we have agreed to let the auction continue. The following has been added to the description. I understand this is not what some of you would like to see but I feel it's a reasonable solution and discloses both the alteration and the fact that the card was bumped from it's previous holder.

*****NOTICE*****



After the time of listing it has been noticed that this card shows two faint eraser marks in the "o" of Cobb and Detroit on the bottom name plate. This detail was not included in the original description, so it is be disclosed now. Additionally, at the request of the submitter we would like to disclose that this same card was previously graded Authentic-Altered (PSA serial number 23331183). In our opinion the current grade of a 'Good 2' appears completely appropriate. Please bid accordingly.

IMO...somewhat honorable that you 2 decided to disclose that info...yet you get deductions for feeling that the current grade is warranted/double speak. So it's kind of a wash to me.

I gotta be honest...I think this is a terrible way to handle it.

There's no question the card is altered. None. To imply the grade is legit is dishonest at worst, disingenuous at best.

And what about the person who buys it and then resells it without that disclosure? IMO this is BS. You should take it down. You can't need the money that badly.

The title has not changed. The amendment won't even be seen unless someone scrolls all the way to the very bottom after the pages of PWCC boilerplate. This is BS. I thought you had more integrity than this.

It's easy to spend someone else's money. Why don't you buy the card and have it reholdered?

Not my card that is being sold fraudulently, bro.

point is that there is a way to recoup his $$$$$ it will just take a little more effort but it is the right thing to do.