Dating 1907 A.C. Dietsche Postcards by Stamp Box
 

Is there a way to date 1907 Dietsche postcards by the stamp box?

Most have the last two lines that read:

Foreign,
Two Cents.

As do the 1908's and 09's.

A very few 1907's have:

Foreign, Two
Cents.

Is this the earlier issue of the 1907's??

After more searching there are two distinct printing of the 1907 Dietsche, one with each box above. The other changes are in the text. If this is old news, my apologies, but which format came first??

Here are two examples of Cobb....

The variations are known, from my experience the top one came first and is tougher. This is only based on how often each comes up for sale however.

My Fielding Cobb has the two lines: Foreign
Two Cents

The smaller print is also on my fielding version. Not sure if they come both ways.

Since fielding is supposed to be early, then the above probably was first printing variation.

That's a good point, the bottom one probably came first but the top is a little tougher.

You would think that the Cobb Fielding back would be the first one produced, but it appears to only come with the lower pic, smaller text back.

So did the Cobb Fielding really come first or was it issued in between the other two print runs???

The large font upper image shown is definitely tougher by number of internet images.

Scott - as mentioned, the two different backs are known. Every card in the 1907 set is known with both backs, with the exception of the Cobb fielding which I have only seen with the biography in smaller print, which also has the stamp box that reads:

Foreign, Two
Cents

AFAIK, the Dietsche postcards were first announced on October 1, 1907 in newspaper ads. One of the ads specifically states that there are 15 cards in the full set. There is a photo of a display dated October 05, 1907 picturing a set of 15 with a Cobb fielding, so I have always assumed that that version was issued first.

Thanks Kevin.

The one thing that goes against the fine print coming first is that all of the 1908's and 09's I have found, all have the fine print as well. Which would lead one to believe that the larger print came first?

Could the larger print set have been issued mid summer and then the fine print later in the year, which would perhaps solve why the Fielding is so rare, not because it was issued first, but because it was put near the end of the season.

Here's a letter from A.C.Dietsche to Hughie Jennings dated October 1st, 1907:

Interesting discussion, I have nothing to add other than that I wish I bought more of these when they were reasonably priced. My one and only fielding pose conforms to what has been mentioned.

Mike... that article is fantastic!!! Surprising there are not more of the fielding pose around if lots of sets were giving out for free maybe McGraw never got back deitsche??

The postal rate won't help.

The rate for postcards was first set lower than the rate for a letter in 1898.
It stayed at 1cent from then till 1 April 1925, except for during WWI when it was raised to 2c to help pay for the war. (Nov2, 1917 to June 30, 1919.

I haven't found the exact details, but the rate for international mail of all types was stable by 1907. I would expect the international postcard rate to have been set at 2c and not changed for anything except WWI until 1925 as well.

I would expect the "place stamp here" to be earlier. 1907 was near the beginning of divided back postcards, before that one side was for the address and the other for the picture and message. Other countries like France would often have the stamp on the image side.

Don’t they both say “place stamp here?”

This website is a great reference for dating postcards....

https://www.playle.com/realphoto/photoa.php

The question is not when the postcards/stamp box was issued, but in which order did Dietsche issue the different backs, which have differences in the players text as well as the stamp box.

Can looking at the Cubs postcards perhaps hold any information since they were issued in 1907 as well?

I did and found the Cubs also use both types of backs. The only way to find out might be to examine postally examples and see when they were mailed.

Of the very few postmarked examples online, many of which were from 1908-1910 all were of the small text variety. None, were postmarked 1907, but the large text certainly is scarcer and was not used past 1907. I still suspect they were from the first run and the Cobb Fielding was issued at the end of the season, not first, which is why it is the scarcer pose, but not the earliest of the Dietsche Cobbs issued.

That makes sense.

Ref: 1907 Dietsche Detroit Tiger Postcards.
In the stamp box on the back there were two versions issued: All 16 were issued with "USA and Canada One Cent" on top, this includes the fielding pose ( which was probably issued first since there is a photo of the set in early October which shows the fielding pose but not the batting pose). 15 of the postcards were also issued with"Place Stamp Here" on the top of the stamp box. I know of no Cobb "fielding poses" with the "Place Stamp Here" on top.
My experience indicates that the "Place Stamp Here" at the top of the Stamp Box is tougher for the other 15 cards in the set and probably non-existant for the "Fielding Cobb".

I just don't see why they would have gone from small text to large text and back to small text(and the different wording in the stamp box), which equates to Place Stamp Here at the top. I believe the 15 large text were issued first and then as perhaps the campaign(both baseball and postcard) picked up they issued the next run with the Cobb Fielding which only carries the small text/USA Canada first lines as you mentioned. And carried forward in 1908/09 with the same back format.

Perhaps the October ad was their first public ad and just happened to carry the current run(with Fielding), but then why take the Batting out???

I am guessing we will never know for sure, short of an early postmarked postcard or an earlier ad surfacing.

For whatever is worth, here is my opinion on the Dietsche Cobb Fielding.

https://chapmandeadballcollection.co...gers-set-1907/

Nice Jim! That's not the piece found at the chicago or cleveland national a few years ago, is it? I remember a small postcard like item depicting the tigers including cobb fielding but I dont recall it having a postcard back?

Yes Pete, it is one and the same.

im wishing I bought that when I had the chance!!!!

Thanks Jim, That is well researched and presented.

Do you then think that the Fielding could be found with the small text back?

If not, any thoughts on the backs starting with small(Fielding as a stand alone reference point). Then going to the larger text and then back to smaller???

Scott

It's only found with the small text.

Another angle to pursue..which was brought to my attention from a longtime collector with a set of each of the 1907 variations. The smaller text pcs and the Cobb Fielding are all of the purple hue front, while the larger text is the more distinct black front.

I believe the 08's and 09's are the deeper black and not purple is this correct?

DOH! they certainly do ..

I have a Crawford that has his name in white text at the bottom? Any knowledge to share here about that variation?

Your Crawford White Name is a 1908 Copyright ? Right ? The 1908 Series consists of 20 Postcards ( 14 - White Name ) if they also had a Postcard in the 1907 Series and Black Name ( 6 new players) if they didn't have a 1907 Postcard.

The multi player item is a great Dietsche piece...Nice thread research here.