Utter Frustration:
 

This card just showed up on EBAY. I had heard of it, but never seen it. Whitlow Wyatt was a cousin of mine and I knew that my collection of his cards would not be complete without this one.

However, it's scarcity (the seller claims there are only 63) allows for a huge asking price ($5,500 obo) - a level I have only
considered for better grade Babe Ruth cards and my Allegheny Mathewson.

Financially, I could pull it off, but I would be hurting for a long time.


Has anyone else found themselves in such a predicament?

Attachment 267859

Attachment 267860

Does scarcity equal that sort of value in this case? I'm sorry, I'm just not familiar with the player or the card.

Make a nice photocopy and congratulate yourself on saving $5500. There may be no one in the world who values the card as highly as you do. If someday you decide to sell it you will probably take a big hit. Save the money--skip the card.

Make a serious, well thought out offer, win the card and be a legend. If the offer does not work out, wait and cherish a more deserved victory.

This card would be worth more to me as a family member. The Standard Catalog of Vintage Baseball Cards, 3rd Edition (2013) lists the card at 1,250 in NM condition.

As a player, Wyatt had a decent career, capped off with the 1941 Brooklyn Dodgers when he went 22-10; led the league in shuouts; one the only World Series game the Dodgers won against the Yankees.

He was also the Atlanta Braves' first pitching coach.

Agree.

Whit Wyatt
 

I agree with Jay... You are exactly what the seller is looking for. Turn the tables...offer 1850.00 and say it's good for 12 hours.

you could buy a nice 1933 goudey #144 babe ruth for that price. Yes, this might be a great family piece. But what if you had to sell it how much would one pay for it?

I saw that one pop up, and as a Georgia Tech collector, appreciated it. If you want to buy it, I will toss in $100 PayPal.

Obviously I imagine book price is insufficient and it should go for significantly more, but is 5x NM value for a FAIR card rational? In 2012 REA sold a common in 3 for $1600. A Whitt Wyatt SGC 60 went for $2250. A Bobby Morgan raw in VG sold by Huggins and Scott in 2015 went for $2800 the the same card popped up in an REA a year later in 2016 now actually graded SGC 40 and it sold for $2040. They don't come up often so that should help set the market, and they are all significantly nicer than the card in question. Also SGC has graded at least 2 Wyatts and PSA has graded 2. If you offer him the book NM price he should jump on it.

And he never needs to sell it; a rare card like that would be a family heirloom...

I agree with Jay. Offer much less and in the comment box to the seller type, "Here is my offer. Sometimes you gotta say not no, but !@#$%$ no.

I would lay out the evidence of PRIOR cards sold, their condition and their final prices. I would tell the seller you are probably the BEST person to sell the card to because of the family collection and then offer a MUCH lower price.

Then tell the seller your offer will only go lower as time passes and he doesn't sell the card to someone else.

On a card like this, don't let emotion get in the way of financial sense (unless, of course, you have so much money that financial sense doesn't matter for such a small amount).


David

This may work with some people. Personally anytime someone has done anything even close to this I instantly add them to my blocked list. IMHO there is not much worse when selling a card than to have someone try to convince me I need to sell my item to them for their price.:eek:

EDIT: I have no problem with an offer for less than my selling price. I just don't want some story that goes with it.

I sent the seller a message inquiring why he had the card at such a high price when the catalog listed it at $375 for VG condition.

I also told him that I may be interested in that price range, but would never even consider anything close to what he was asking.

His feedback record shows only 9 previous transactions so I am already cautious.

I'll wait for the response.

.

PWCC also sold a PSA 5 Felin's Franks of John Meyer for $2,150 last month. Felin's Franks cards are quite scarce, but it is a thin market once the price gets above a few hundred dollars. The Meyer card had only three bidders over $503 and just two bidders over $974.

That asking price is wildly optimistic. I can sympathize with the OP. I think many of us have cards that we have wanted for a long time that sit on eBay forever at insane BINs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-Felins-...p2047675.l2557

As a frequent recipient of those sorts of emails from wannabe buyers on rare cards my response is right in my listing:

--I do not "have to" sell you my item for the price you dictate.* My wife is the only one who gets to say I "have to" do something, and she says it plenty.*

--I am well aware of what the market is for most anything I sell; trying to "educate" me on pricing is not a negotiation tool, it is just a tool tool.

--While I am certainly appreciative of your personal or familial connection to a particular item, it is not a reason for me to give you a discount.* A crasser person than I would even consider it a reason to raise the price.*

We all take losses on things that we like. This is a hobby. Some people spend $5000 on other hobbys with zero chance of recouping that cost. Lets say someone likes to spend money traveling and spends $6000 on a cruise and not the cheaper one for $1000. Thats a $5,000 difference that is gone forever except the pictures you take on the cruise.

Someone may want to pay $5,000 more than someone ever would on a card. The answer just shouldnt always be 'what its worth'. If there was one 1983 topps signed card available of a guy that played for 1 year and it happened to be my brother, i know i would pay thousands more than the 'market' (market being other signed 1983 cards with POP of 1 with same type of player)

Anyway, the only issue i would have if i am going to pay thousands more than the next guy is the chances of seeing another one at auction in the next year or two or whatever time table i am good with. If i am confident another item wont come up for the next 10 years, that would allow me to pay more etc

If this was Whit's ONLY card I could see going above board on it just to have it but knowing that's not the case I'd let the guy keep it. He'll never sell it for that and you can just hope he puts it up for auction.

Been there. As a player collector, one of the cards on my list is a 55 Bowman Sample card. The one with Willie -freaking- Mays on it too.

I think many collectors of Jewish ballplayers ran into this dilemma with regard to the unique Baltimore News card of Guy Zinn. But the stakes were a bit higher (and light years beyond my reach) -- $125k.

What little I know of negotiating (took a course by an expert Herb Cohen), it is likely a mistake to make a 'take it or leave it' offer. No need to run the risk of offending the seller.

By the way, I went to college with a fellow named Whitlow Wyatt.

Agreed and part of why I don't sell much anymore.

My personal guideline is that no matter what the card is, if cannot offer at least 80% of asking...I move on.

I will however toss it in my watch list and keep an eye on the listing to see if the seller revises anything. I have had one particular card in my watch list for over a year and a half, lol. If he ever comes down to earth on it i'll grab it...but I can wait.

Utter Frustration:
 

This is an interesting approach. Certainly they're your listings, and I'm not saying your wrong, but I wouldn't want to start off on an antagonistic note with my potential buyers before they've even placed a bid.

Personally, yours would not particularly offend me as a potential buyer, but I have avoided plenty of listings where the seller starts the description section with a laundry list of rules. If it takes me more than a few seconds to find the actual item's description within the mountain of rules the seller is stating, I move on, because that just sounds like a transaction begging to have issues.

But I also agree with the other poster that said the potential buyer should avoid the same by not sending a "take it or leave it" offer.

My best purchasing experiences have always been when both parties start the transaction assuming the best about the other. These tend to resolve to the mutual benefit of both.


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I've had jerks on eBay give me some pitch with a low ball offer basically telling me they are doing me a favor and I would thank them. Crap like that. I always assume it it some twenty year old (no offense to any 20 year olds on the board, I wish I was one) who has no real life business experience under their belt and maybe read the Art of the Deal once in Cliffs Notes. Has happened a few times with modern era stuff.

no offense taken. i wish i was one as welll. :cool:


Basically the issue is if the card ever went to auction you would be the highest bidder guaranteed but the seller just refuses to list it at auction

I hate my generation, and I personally apologize for them.


To the OP: I would absolutely mention your family connection. I have a dotted line connection to Grover Hartley, who was the manager of the minor league team my grandpa and uncle played on. He has a couple cards, including a Boston Store card. I've only ever found 1, and it was fairly expensive. The seller was very open to negotiating. Unfortunately, we couldn't get down to a price I was comfortable at, at the time. I kindly thanked him for his time, and told him I would keep this in mind going forward for when the funds are more abundant. Very positive interaction, and if the initial contact is done politely and respectfully, I don't see any problem in inquiring about price flexibility.

I would not buy, like someone else said make a card using the scan. That card isn't worth 5 bucks to 99.95% of collectors.

If the seller is asking 5500 for an SGC 20 when a PSA 5 sold recently for about 40% of that, then the card is not really for sale.

Ask the buyer if he is willing to negotiate or if he wants to know the most you can pay. If he'll negotiate, make sure the first offer is credible. If no negotiations are possible, my advice is to make the absolute best offer you can for the card - hold nothing back - and state it as such "hey, this is the best I can offer for the card.' Mention the family connection to the card and hope for the best. If you actually put the offer up and he turns you down you can rest easy knowing for sure.

While I don't own any really rare or super high vale cards, I imagine those that do appreciate serious offers. Id say at LEAST better than 65% of ask...

The description is always at the top; the boilerplate is in a section I actually caption "the fine print". Hey, I'm a lawyer, that's what I do. That is also why I (try to) put jokes and puns into it, so the people who read it might enjoy it.

As for offers and such, I cover that too in the fine print:

1. Please don't email me with lowball offers; the minimum bid or the floor below which offers are automatically rejected represents the minimum I am willing to take for the item.

2. I do not end listings early unless I screwed up the listing so if you absolutely, positively gotta have it, please use the BIN or the fixed price. Also, when I use the Best Offer option I am actually looking for reasonable offers, so don't hesitate to make a reasonable offer because you never know... That said, please note that I nearly always put an automatic rejection floor on any listing where I use a best offer option. That means that lowball offers are automatically rejected; I never even see them. If your offer is below the automatic rejection floor I have established, it means I am not interested in selling the item for your offer. Not that I don't respect you, not that I am offended, just that your offer is too low...

As for antagonistic, there is a difference between a clear, polite statement of the terms of a transaction and an antagonistic one. "Please don't email me with lowball offers" is a polite request not to do so. I prefer it when a seller states terms and conditions of sale up front where I can read them before I decide to bid or buy. That's why I devote a paragraph to shipping and explain that I do not ship outside eBay's system and I do not lie on customs forms. You live in Croatia and want the item, you are going to pay for eBay global shipping and I will declare it at full value, and you should know that up-front, before you bid.

Sorry for the slight thread-jacking. Returning to the OP, I collect a cousin's stuff (my avatar, Ray Miller) and I have definitely overpaid for certain "Ray" items. Not the level this seller is asking, but still way over 'market' so that I could be sure to get the item. If you have the money and you want it, make your best offer. Don't whine, don't tell the seller how you gotta have it or how much it means to your family, just make the offer clearly and politely and see what happens.

Fair enough. God knows there are enough eBay horror stories that I certainly don't assume the worst of the seller when a listing gets legalistic. I don't want to personally mess with it as a potential buyer, but I definitely see why sellers get to that point, and it has its place.


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It's only a predicament if you buy it. 5500 is nuts, probably more than he ever made in a year. Take that 5500 and buy something you can interact with and will give you some type of physical enjoyment like a used motorcycle, several cases of relatively fine wine, a vacation, etc. Its a piece of cardboard. If the money was of totally no consequence I could see it but since it would make a dent then. Let it go. Just my opinion.

I agree but I would also never spend more than a few hundred for any piece of cardboard. I would get all of Roberts great suggestions for $5500. You can get a decent used 600cc Ninja(mid life crisis:) $2000, 2 cases of decent wine $500, and a vacation so fun you won't remember most of it for 10 days in the Netherlands for the remaining $3000. From personal experience that year was way better than any piece of cardboard and I still have the bike.:)

Here's an idea....why doesn't the OP submit an offer he feels is a reasonable price for the card ($1200 for example) and then everyone who sees this thread submits a lowball offer of $500 or less to make the OP's offer seem worthy of accepting. :D

I, the OP, just had a $375 offer declined. Not sure I want to go as high as you suggest...but I did paid double to complete my Morrell Meats Koufax collection earlier this year so maybe I will...

...Probably Jr., his son, who passed away in 2001...just two years after his father. I do not recall ever meeting him.

I have my doubts. The Whitlow Wyatt I knew attended Washington and Lee U. from 1966-70. The ballplayer's son (per internet) was born in 1940 so likely another fellow.

By the way, I had another recollection from my course on negotiations. While the only certain method of acquiring the card is offering the asking price, one rule of thumb is to offer around 15% less than you are prepared to pay.

Well, it is not a very common name and Wyatt, Jr. would have been 26-30 years old when he was in college - which is late- not right out of high school, but, it's possible.




I wanted to thank everyone who posted on this thread for their input about this card and my dilemma with it. I am currently weighing my options.

-Raymond

Mark-

Your comments concerning having known a Whitlow Wyatt, have sent me on my own research trip and through that, a better idea.

John Whitlow Wyatt, the MLB pitcher, was married to my grandmother's first cousin...but I have always claimed him as a 'full' cousin and always will.

I had already discovered that his son, John Whitlow Wyatt, Jr, had passed away in 1976.

My latest google search found that John Whitlow Wyatt III, born in 1970, had also already passed away...in 2012.

However, he is survived by his wife of seventeen years and 3 children, the oldest of which, John Whitlow (Jack) Wyatt IV, would be 17-18 years old now.

I will travel to their hometown, introduce myself, explain my connection and offer my Whitlow Wyatt collection to his great-grandson.

Not being able to 'take it with me', I can think of no better person to give it to.

Cool, huh?

Raymond:

I am an advanced Phillies collector and I can tell you Felins are really hard to find. I believe all the cards came from one find at a printer in Wisconsin in the 70's.

There is an ad in the Phillies 1955 program for them, but I do not believe they were ever issued. All numbers are not even known.

With all that said, in my 50 plus years collecting Phillies stuff ( yeah I'm OLD) I have managed to come up with only ONE Felins. Guess who? Yep, Whit Wyatt.

It is ungraded in nice shape. Certainly nicer than the one on ebay. While I am not interested in selling it, I would agree to trade it to you for another Felins in the same or better condition to help you out. If you can find another LMK. Perhaps another collector here on Net54 has one they would sell you for a fair price. PM me your email address and I can send you a scan.

Fred

Classy move Fred! We should all go out and find one of these cards for Raymond so he can do the trade.

Awesome! This kind of story makes this the great hobby this is.


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Yeah, but some confusion. If reading correctly, at one point you state son died in 2001; and at another point in 1976.

As to the fellow I knew, a contact with W&L's alumni office may shed light as to his current residence.

Oops. He passed in 2001; his father two years earlier and his mother in 1976.

I agree that the family connection is your strongest approach. Trying to rationalize the price is not likely to be as successful.

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