You're welcome again! OK, I had to put in a little more time for you Tobacco types, but I'm glad I did because the third image below is my favorite. It's similar to SGC but better, IMHO. I like how the black background not only does its wonders for the card, but makes the label really pop. If we could get rid of the green and go B&W on the label, I'd be even happier, but that is probably a bridge too far. Companies tend to get very particular about branding. Very generous grading on this Coupon! Feedback welcome.

EDIT: Scale should now be accurate.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...89db226c_c.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...63648794_c.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...422834c9_c.jpg

-------.

Chad,
Can you rotate the Johnson image and compare it to the size of the label?

To be honest, I'm not confident enough in the scaling to make that comparison. It was done by hand and is not exact by any means. This is just meant to give an idea of what it could look like. I think that it's fair to say that the label and a T206 would be pretty close in overall surface area.

EDIT: OK, when I figured out that the flip is almost exactly the width of the 1957 Topps, or 2.5 inches, I created a better scale. The T213 in images above is undersized. It should be a little larger. I'll try to fix those. This image should be accurate.

EDIT2: The original images in my post above with the T213 WaJo have been corrected. The card was a bit too small in all holders, but esp. the current CSG holder (as can be seen in Phil's reply). The scale should be very close to true now.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a542754f_c.jpg

Curious to other PreWar guys.
Do we REALLY need the qualifiers?

I have never seen the need for Qualifiers on any card. The final grade is what it is. I couldn't care less about edge numbers, corner numbers or anything else.

The only qualifiers I would need are trimmed, colored, or altered.

Looking at that, I'm thinking that for T cards a holder that had the label on the side would be pretty nice. It could probably be made so it would easily fit existing storage boxes.

Sort of like this
https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=29867

I was thinking the exact same thing.

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So Leon, what is your interpretation of how CSG will actually slab a T206 card for instance?
Custom fit slab, slabbed with a baggie, slabbed with a gasketed insert?
Sounds like you might have had more correspondence than most of us.
Curiously interested now.

By the way, I like the shorter slab interpretation without the insert, but not the square one.
Question I would still have is how will they center or stabilize the card in the center of the holder?
RayB

I like the creativity, but I was trying to present something that would be feasible for CSG. Even one different holder size is going to be a big challenge, due to the hit to logistics and economy of scale. Different size, so different transport requirements, storage requirements, different ultrasonic welder horn, lower overall quantities of each holder type making each one more expensive, etc. are all going to push hard against making any alternate sized holder.

I am guessing that having a super specific holder for only certain issues of cards is going to be an absolute non-starter economically. With that in mind, my hope was to present an alternate holder design that would better conform to the aesthetic needs of many, while still being able to hold any standard size or smaller card. I realize that a change of this magnitude is unlikely, and this may all be a non-starter, but I was hoping that it might stimulate enough feedback from the community to at least get CSG to take notice.

And the proposed square holder may meet a need for denser storage, but it doesn't help the aesthetic situation, IMHO.

The qualifiers are an option, for which the submitter will pay a nominal fee. For vintage, I agree there is no need. If/when I submit, I will not request the qualifiers. But I believe many of the modern card collectors may opt for it.

I hope CSG is indeed reading this and can respond to some of the Forum's basic concerns. As the "new kid on the block", you'd think/hope they would be extra-responsive to consumer inquiries. If people get the sense that GSC cares (and is responsive), it would give them an immediate leg up on their current competition.

I agree that the smaller square slab for Tobacco/Caramel cards may not be feasible or cost effective. But hopefully (especially as a new advertiser here) they can at least provide a response to concerns over the flip size and color, as it pertains to smaller-sized cards that are 100+ years old.

There is just no way that the flip size should be comparable to the cards themselves!

Grading
 

I have been using SGC because I like the look of their slabs. I have about a dozen cards on my wall that were graded by PSA or Beckett, and a dozen or so raw cards. I had planned on sending them to SGC, but with the current mess at SGC I will hold off.

I agree with many of the other posters about the CSG slabs. They aren't very attractive and they haven't explained about their plans to keep the smaller cards from sliding around.


(The photo is actually a vertical wall.:) )

........ known as the great "Boscobellringer"

Wisconsin
 

In Wisconsin, we keep our cards on a horizontal wall so they don't fall off during natural disasters.

My first thought was that the flip looked a little large but that has me comparing to PSA and SGC.

I also remember when I first saw graded cards I thought they were just encased for protection and authenticated as real. I liked that idea at the time better than a number grade. Pre war cards could just be authenticated and on the back list qualifiers trimmed, altered, color added restored etc.

BUY the card and not the holder!

I think the subgrades are very helpful. You can't put every card up on this site so that swarmee can tell you what's wrong with it.

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If I read their website correct the qualifiers are far from "nominal".
Appears if you want sub grades you pay $10/card extra for those.
Do I have that right?
RayB

Yes you're right... not really nominal for cheaper cards. Somewhat nominal when looking at a percentage of the fees for high-end cards.

Looking at it from the angle of keeping costs down, a gasketed holder makes the most sense. Even with modern CNC machining, a set of dies for injection molding is a big investment.
3D printing has potential, but right now it's painfully slow, and isn't great for clear stuff.

So a size that can hold most "regular" cards and a gasket to adjust the size is the most cost effective.

I've thought for years that the gasket could be made in different colors. That would allow some customizing, like team colors, or even just a lighter choice for cards like 71 Topps or 50 Drakes.

I knew the square "thing" I mocked up wouldn't appeal to everyone, it's what I could do with the old image and paint in a few minutes. Plenty of room for improvement. There's really no big reason most T size cards couldn't be in a small slab. the 3x4 size of a toploader could be pretty good.

I've been trying to figure out a slab with a pocket to contain a detailed report/certificate.

That logo looks vaguely familiar...

What is the 'current mess' at SGC?

Current mess
 

The current mess at SGC is the raise in prices, coupled with missed deadlines. My last order took 4 months for them to grade. Add in the loss of the registry and the new pop report that made it even more inaccurate than the previous version, it all adds up to a mess.

I remember several years ago SGC was great. I used to talk a lot with Earl Johnson whom worked there. Not sure what happened to him but he was a great guy. Turn around times used to be on point and never had issues with customer service. Just my opinion but it fell apart when they moved from parsipanny to florida……….or again it just seemed that way.

prices are better than the others, and the turnaround is faster. 4 months is nothing for a standard submission. BGS is 8 months. i think slack needs to be cut given the current environment. Registry/pop report I would guess is less of a priority given the massive wave of new business. TPGs just were not prepared for this new market.

..

I kind of think SGC could sue them for being to close to their likeness of the logo.

I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night 😁

Since CCG uses the scales on all of their logos I think it would've already happened. I've heard rumblings that SGC used to be part of Certified Collectibles Group, just like CGC, NGC, ASG etc... and that's why the similarity, but I can't find any facts to back that up. CGC was also started in Parsippany NJ which lends some credence to the theory.

Were they linked to JSA in some way since they are in Parsippany too?

No but JSA used SGC for slabbing before SGC started diing (and has since STOPPED doing) autograph authentication.

I joined CSG and sent in a few cards. I decided on economy, only as if I dont like it didnt spend alot of $$ looking forward to their return.

Ok this is exciting!

What did you send them - A T Card would be great...

I was thinking the same thing when I first saw the pictures and name earlier
this month. It's like SGC #2. The logo is close to me and the name Guaranty
too. Reminded me of SGC when Derek and Sean were there.

Anyone get their cards back yet from csg? Im on the fence at the moment. I need a bunch of raw cards graded.


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Same here... seriously thinking of giving them a try, but am still awaiting a reply from them on the slabs/flips for Tobacco and Caramel cards.

Looks to already be a CSG grading company.:D:eek:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1954-Topps-...YAAOSw8b1gIzN7

My 1st order logged in 2/25. Standard 5 weeks, we'll see.

I emailed CSG about smaller cards and here is the response:

Hello Andy,

For smaller cards we create a custom clear insert to hold the card safely in place.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thank you and have a wonderful day,

Justin Hudlow

Customer Service

Certified Collectibles Group

p. 800-642-2646 | f. 941-360-2553
jhudlow@NGCcoin.com

and just as a side note there is another TPG company .....

HGA - Hybrid Grading Approach

Hybridgrading.com

For smaller cards we create a custom clear insert to hold the card safely in place.

For smaller cards we create a custom clear or black insert to hold the card safely in place.

One can only dream...

Exhibits and larger cards
 

Do you know if they have larger slabs for exhibits and t200s?

I think I'll give CSG a try given the ridiculous delay and price increase at psa

First I am hearing of them.
Not that I will be sending any in, but they do look like a decent company.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51hR4QXlBs8

I just called them to ask about this. I requested that they put a picture up on their website (of a Tobacco Card within the Slab/Insert). They agreed that was a good idea, and will do so shortly.

I told them I am hesitant to submit anything until I see the actual aesthetics, and they fully understood. They also said that the insert will not be a flimsy baggie like PSA uses. They said it is composed of a more rigid material.

So hopefully, the cards won't present diagonally, off-centered or sideways like they frequently do with PSA. And hopefully there will be no unsightly wrinkling, puckering or crumpling of the "insert", as is so frequently seen with PSA slabs that aren't properly sized.

Fingers crossed!

I was told they do not have any larger size right now, basically standard card size or smaller, at least right now.

Have any coupon code for membership, Leon?

I am thinking of joining at the 149 level and see there is a coupon code line. Wondering if you have any>

Worse than that actually. If your card is standard size but oversized (50s, 60s and 70s and are larger than factory specs), their current holders will not accommodate the card and it will come back ungraded. There are people on their message boards all bent out of shape over it.

Anyone else having problems doing a submission? I've been trying for 3 days now and can't access the form. I contacted Customer Service and they stated they are experiencing very high user traffic resulting in server errors, just keep trying. Apparently even at 4 AM in the morning.

Oh, and prices are going up starting on 4/28

Well, prices just went up and it looks like you can submit now, LOL.

Didn't take em very long to jump on the bandwagon - did it?

Still less than the other 3 but I suspect they will be totally moved over to the dark side before long.

Quick check shows a total of around 2600 CSG Graded cards on FeePay

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/150864751@N07/51144462671/in/album-72157711330478736/" title="CSG2"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51144462671_144cca8f5c_n.jpg" width="320" height="229" alt="CSG2"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>