Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)
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Saw this card at REA and thought it looked too drawn and too close to the known Parent exemplars. Figured I wouldn't have to look through too many listings on Worthpoint so I gave it a shot.
Sure enough... First sold on eBay on July 28, 2015 as a PSA 2.5. Link here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ent-1736998090. Then sold at REA in their 2016 Spring auction (with JSA cert) for $2,700. Link here: https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...r-fred-parent/. [Look through posts below for the rest.] Post #1: Fred Parent Post #8: Billy Sullivan Post #23: Bob Rhoades (thanks to The Nasty Nati) Post #59: Paddy Livingston (thanks to T206Collector) Post #100: Frank "Homerun" Baker (thanks to Pat_R) Post #109: Elmer Flick (thanks to bn2cardz) Post #128: Heinie Zimmerman (thanks to Thromdog) Post #152: Wid Conroy (thanks to Pat _R) Post #175: Larry Doyle (thanks to t206kid) Post #194: Jap Barbeau (thanks to rommesc) Post #205: Red Murray (thanks to atx840) Post #366: Eddie Cicotte (thanks to The Nasty Nati) Post #374: Nap Rucker Post #446: Jesse Tannehill (thanks to Pat_R) Other Thread: Rube Marquard Total: 15 |
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Setting aside the fact he died in 1972, what's to say that he didn't sign it in 2016?
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Manny you're doing amazing work here. That one came not only with an SGC authentication, but a full JSA LOA as well! :eek:
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Manny, you are a total rockstar! I don’t collect autographs, but as an avid card collector and active hobby participant, I very much appreciate your efforts on pointing out these forgeries; at the least, my eyes are much more wide open now.
Ryan Hotchkiss |
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I collect primarily cards but have bid on some nice autographed items from time-to-time and never won. Right now, I am thanking my lucky stars I lost! |
As I asked in the other post, has anyone gone to REA to ask who consigned the card? It should be possible to trace back and find the forger, especially when done in conjunction with the Marquard card.
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Fake T206 Signed Billy Sullivan
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Another one...this one's a biggie at $6,600.
Sold on eBay as an SGC 30 on July 8, 2015. Link here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...lly-1734408624. Then sold at the REA 2016 Spring auction. Link here: https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...illy-sullivan/. |
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Oh wow, this is bad!:eek:
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Fantastic work Manny! Now if we could only get someone to wake up
and start investigating and prosecute the people responsible for crimes like this. |
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Holy crap, the plot thickens....
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I'm starting to wonder if we can trace a majority of the existing signed T206s to their unsigned version through a deep Worthpoint search. This is pretty alarming.
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Was JSA the authenticator on all of the T206 fake signature cards? |
Great work! Though this is really sad.
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This is not good. This makes my heart and head hurt. I don’t have any prewar autos that aren’t football but this makes me not want to purchase anything until this crap gets sorted out.
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Now you've got one of my newest ones, and an expensive one to boot!
:eek: Guess I'll be calling REA and SGC now... Edited to add that it is, indeed, really sad. Sullivan is the most I've ever paid for a signed T206 card. And I have never questioned its authenticity. Plus, it was authenticated by SGC and JSA, and in the most reputable auction house in our hobby. |
Both the Parent card and the Sullivan card were sold to an eBay masked ID of "a**a". So same buyer for both off of eBay.
The Marquard card had a masked ID of "b**o" so a different buyer, but it was also in 2018 whereas the others were in 2015, so easily could be the same person with a different eBay ID. (Though the feedback screenshot via eBay shows this person as "f**f", they appear on VCP as "b**o". Not sure why there is a difference.) |
Great detective work!
It's just the tip of the iceberg. Those T206, Goudey, etc vintage autograph collections are loaded with fakes. And if they are not, everyone will think so anyway.
Too much money and greed. |
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I found another.
Here's the worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eet-1737649372 And a better picture of the auto (t206collector I hope it's okay I reference your photo): http://www.signedt206.com/other-peop...ktbffyldzycqzp The creasing is identical. There is a tobacco mark that was removed on his crotch but the missing cardboard is in the same location. I'm sure a ton more fakes are about to be unsurfaced. This took me 2 minutes to find. |
Wow.. this is about to get bad, already 4 examples in not a long time of looking.. Good work by you guys
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Trying to keep track of them all, the Rhoades was in Hunt Auctions, in February 2016. This one got away from me on the auction block...
https://huntauctions.com/phone/image...9&lot_num=1009 |
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The last sale of the Parent I found was August 22 2015 on ebay. There were two other cards purchased by the same buyer. Attachment 335637 Here's the scans from that sale Attachment 335638 Attachment 335639 |
I have never been interested in autographs for this reason. Way too easy for some people to copy a signature. I’m sure there are tons of fakes out there. Why trust an “experts” opinion.
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Same positioning and spacing of the letters. |
I want to thank Manny, Patrick, Brock and anyone else helping uncover this forger.
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Painful, but vital to the health of the hobby. |
this totally
sucks!!:mad:
paul I am feeling for you:eek: I have a Snodgrass double signed front and back......i'll look for the scan... |
Aside from disgust at the forger, I am thinking this brings into question most any autograph that has ever been authenticated. The entire system...
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk |
I'm guessing this goes beyond T-206 and into other sets as well. I've noticed a tremendous increase in the number of autographed cards being auctioned lately. This really doesn't look good.
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While the evidence so far is damning, we shouldn't necessarily over-react either. There are lots more cards hitting the market than ever before because a generation of collectors is dying off, or selling their collection because their heirs aren't interested. I assume some of the increase in autographs is attributable to the same cause.
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Lmk |
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Holy smokes...someone is turning $40 cards into $5000+ cards. Good work Manny, Patrick and Brock. Should be interesting to find out who consigned these.
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Don't want to distract from this great effort here. Just wanted to mention that having worthpoint and other sites that cache sales has been a major help in tracking down several faked T206 errors. From my small dealings with this, PSA is able to go to eBay and track down the buyers info. Just track everything you have found, dates and screenshot them.
Fake Cobb ghost http://i.imgur.com/OpgnkwV.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YNt0RlO.jpg http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=170638 Fake Magie errors. http://i.imgur.com/RWMakrN.gif http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...e+Magie&page=1 Keep it up guys! |
Fake Autographs
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this is
all very disturbing:eek:
holy crap! chris! great to see you posting again :) |
Worth remembering what the authenticator said about Mastro
The authenticator in question in my view tossed his reputation out the window with this letter to the court on behalf of -- after Mastro had been convicted.
And think about it . . . How would anyone know if a purported autograph of an obscure ballplayer from 100+ years ago was real, even in the absence of forensic evidence that it was fake? |
Following up . . .
Just realized I should've posted that last post to the other thread about the fake autograph that SGC rejected. I'll post it there now.
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Nice work on this gentlemen. This seems to be getting legs. This just popped up in my twitter feed.
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ies-uncovered/ |
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Thank you for posting this, truly appreciate it. I had it out with an authenticator at SGC at the Shriner's Show on November 3rd on a related topic.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=shriners+show |
As the owner of 165 different signed, authenticated, 1933 Goudey cards, this is disturbing to say the least. I appreciate the efforts of everyone here. Hopefully this forger(s) will be uncovered sooner, rather than later.
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