Ebay Authentication - It Gets Personal
 

A few weeks back, I bought a nice raw '49 Bowman Spahn from Greg Morris. So far, so good. Today I received an email from Greg saying the card was rejected by PSA as non-authentic with no reason given. I despise PSA and don't ever want them anywhere near my cards. What I don't know is the next step? Presumably, the card is returned to Greg who will examine it and then determine what the problem is, if any, which I doubt since they are excellent graders and see if I still want the card or a refund of my $537 purchase price. Has anybody had a similar experience? Greg did offer a $20 credit off my next purchase. Whoopee!

This Ebay program is an abomination.

I thought Greg put “set break” in his listings and bypassed the eBay authentication program? Surprised by this…..

CSG looks at the raw cards bro.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Perhaps you can contact him outside of Ebay, he does have a website, and request if they determine that everything is fine with the card, you can complete the transaction outside of Ebay.

Brian

PSA only looks at the graded cards. CSG is in charge of the raw cards.

Yet another story in support of why I don't have or want graded cards. I don't care for someone else's opinion of my cards. I don't care for the plastic slabs. And I don't give a hoot about how much more valuable they are, they aren't for sale.

Did CSG actually say it wasnt authentic or did they have another issue? Like if the card was listed as mint and its not for example.

If it's the one I think, that's a really nice card.

I have a feeling it's because he listed as NR-MINT and they are looking at it with CSG modern grading eyes. It does have some corner wear (slight!) and because it wasn't 91' Stadium Club NR MINT (because no one sends 49' Bowman to CSG) they dinged it. He probably shouldn't have used NR Mint alone in the designation.

Not defending the action, just guessing the cause.

All I know is I bought the card raw from Greg off their Ebay platform. Then it went through the authenticity drill and today I received an Email saying that PSA had rejected it for authenticity with nothing more than Greg apologizing and offering a $10 credit on my next purchase There was no mention of CSG and besides I wanted the card raw, not graded. Nor was there any mention of 'what happens next'. I have already emailed back to Greg asking for instructions.
I feel helpless here and somewhat victimized by this clusterf*%^k of an Ebay program I didn't want in the first place.
Now I have neither the card nor my $500+ purchase price.

You should be able to contact Greg & work out a better solution.

I am not sure how CSG spotting an issue with what you and GMC thought was an authentic card makes you a victim. And I don't know why they would tell you PSA looked at it, maybe GMC sends a form letter and you got the wrong one. But I am sure you will get your $500 back from GMC, I am surprised you haven't already.

Spahn
 

I've done business with Greg for a long time...whatever is happening; he will make it right.

I'm assuming there is a strict process in place via EBay>CSG/PSA>back to seller>refund to buyer. Lots of parties involved but the authentication is there to protect the buyer. Probably just needs a little time to cycle through.

Looks like this is the card, using the sold listings?

If so, I understand for rejecting, because it is not NR-MT as the title claims. Bottom right corner especially.

If they rejected it for authenticity as OP is saying, then I have a lot of questions for CSG.

This is why I don't want the program. My eyes work and I know what I'm buying, please don't tell me I can't have what I want and buy.

I am confused, a raw card would not have gone to PSA.

I'm just wondering if there's something wrong with the top border of the card. It looks like it may be slightly bowed (convex).

Steve

+1

I rarely buy on ebay, but I do check it fairly regularly. If one of the bigger shops or a seller I have dealt with privately has a card listed that I like, I just deal with them off the ebay platform; you can usually get a better deal as well and not pay sales tax.

Anyway, Greg has a website and phone number. Just call and world something out, keep Ebay out of it

I've noticed Greg Morris putting NR-MT on some listings that would likely grade 4.5-5 if sent for grading and wondered if they have some exemption that allows this. If any other seller lists a raw VGEX-EX card as NR-MT, it isn't going to pass the ebay auth process.

eBay sucks. Officially.

He is more likely to grade a NM card as VG VG/EX. Also, he’s been at this for 10 years he can’t give a card a single grade? Big difference between Ex and Ex Mt.

Greg, that is indeed the card and other Greg labelled it nrmt. I don't understand why CSG would be involved since I bought it raw and had no attention of grading it. I just wanted the card I won and paid in a GM auction, not this Chinese water torture test from this idiot program Ebay dreamed up. Has anyone else endured anything like this from a GM win?

CSG is involved because over a threshold ebay has a mamdatory authentication, it's that simple and you have no choice as a buyer.

I hate the program, but I have yet to be screwed by it.

I get why they might flag it for the grade, since it isn't NRMT like Morris listed it, but I would think a reasonable program would give the buyer a choice, not force cancel it.

I've arranged a lot of deals I used to do on eBay to be off eBay after this program, because I fear exactly this. I know that a card is often lower grade than the seller claims, or I fear they won't recognize what it even is and will cancel the transaction. I just want the card I, of my own free will, chose to enter into a contract to buy. It makes no sense a grading company I do not care about has to sign off that I am allowed to do this. I hope but doubt eBay ends up killing this garbage.

Most of Greg's listings, or many anyhow, are auctions. No option to deal with him off site.

I just reread Greg's email. All he states is 'that the card has been rejected by the Ebay protection program". By who? Why? What now? I suspect you guys are right and Greg overgraded the card and it was then deemed unworthy of nrmt, by I suppose PSA.
All I know is that I am sitting here fuming, out $537 and no Spahny to comfort me.. A pox on the Ebay protection program.

Once again, it was NOT PSA, it was CSG.

Pretty sure you'll get a refund for the purchase.

I think it's automatic.

Yoda — this situation sucks, but you will GM will definitely make you 100% whole. There is not way that you will be out your $537 for more than a couple of days. As someone else mentioned, you could probably call or email GM directly and buy the card directly from him, outside of ebay.

As has been stated, CSG looks at raw cards sold on eBay valued over $250. PSA looks at graded cards sold on ebay valued over $250. If a raw card does not meet the seller's grade description it is rejected by CSG and the buyer is refunded by eBay. PSA was not involved in this. Also doubt that Greg, himself, was emailing you but someone who handles these things at Greg's.

If you look on the back of the card, the corners are even worse. Top right corner of the back looks like it might have some paper loss. CSG almost certainly rejected this one because of it being listed as NR-MINT.

Also, GregMorris has been having some grading issues as of late. I buy a ton of cards from them every week, and over the past couple weeks I've gotten numerous cards with creases or wrinkles that were not disclosed, as well as some 1986 Fleer basketball cards that were clearly trimmed and even one that was recolored (and not difficult to find with the card in hand). Something is going on at GM, because I never used to get stuff like this from them. I also noticed they put out an advertisement on social media that they are looking to hire a grader... So hopefully things turn back around for them in the near future.

You said before GMC said the card was not authentic. Now you re-read it and it doesn't say that? There is a big difference between authenticity and grade, those are very different things. Can you copy the letter to your post please so we all can see what it says.

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I’m pretty sure you are right, my confusion was because the OP said it was rejected for “authenticity”. It’s clearly authentic, but also clearly a false grade. I have no faith in the graders and their appeals to authority, but I’d be pretty surprised if they are this bad at authentication.

I buy a fair amount from Morris. I have a 65 Jim Otto sitting here he described as VG-VG/EX but looks NRMT in hand and I can’t find what’s wrong. I’ve also gotten a few that are wildly over graded, which is why I use the scans and ignore what sellers state to me is the condition. Morris delivers what I buy, scans well, and has good combined shipping. Amid all the cards he sells for double what they cost from other sellers, a fair number of the weekly listings go for regularp prices, and with combined shipping stack pretty well for large orders.

I think the confusion comes from the fact that eBay calls it the 'eBay Authentication' program, and when a card fails, eBay sends you an email that says the card "failed authentication". But it can fail for multiple reasons. One of which is the card's condition simply not matching the listing, or hidden flaws that are not visible in the images and not disclosed in the listing.

When a card fails Ebay Authentication, BOTH the seller and buyer receive emails from Ebay, then Ebay refunds the buyer immediately. The seller has no say when the refunds are sent. You should have received an email from Ebay at the same time that Greg did.

Gentleman. the collective wisdom of the board has assisted in getting this mess sorted out. This morning I received an Email from Greg saying, referencing the Board's exchange on the matter(there you go), I have been refunded the full purchase price for my Spahn.
In my mind, 2 issues remain:
1. The work flows involved when a raw card is rejected for authenticity. I still don't know who deemed it unworthy of a nrmt grade. If Ebay really believes in this thing they must clarify exactly how it works.
2. I have normally had no problem with GM grading until this frustrating matter. If more of there cards are being rejected because of Greg's grading, then they have a real problem.
Thanks to all the board members who chimed in on this; it certainly spurred Greg into action. John

The answer to #1 is CSG. They are the authenticator for the raw card program.

GM Cards
 

Out of curiosity; when did you get your refund? I thought it was supposed to be immediately once the card is kicked. Did you just get it today?

A brace of general observations, based on my experience with the eBay authenticity program:

1) If an item is rejected, the refund process is automatic. The seller doesn't have to do anything, and you don't have to do anything as the buyer. It's always nice when the seller contacts you to chat about it, but in terms of getting your cash back, the seller has no control over that process. So there was really never any risk that you would be SOL. Either you get the goods or you get a refund, period, full stop. It might take a couple of days until it all gets sorted, but hopefully the seemingly interminable waiting doesn't constitute a terrible inconvenience.

2) In one case, I had the authenticator contact me to alert me to their findings, and ask me how I want to proceed. In that situation involving a slabbed item, the slab had come apart. The authenticator sent me pictures so that I could take a look and decide for myself. I had the option to proceed and accept the item, or I could choose to reject it for a full refund. That may have been a unique situation, but I'm more than a little intrigued that the authenticator didn't give you the option of proceeding in spite of their findings.

Just when I thought things were sorting themselves out after GM's email saying that a refund was issued 10/25, I checked my P/P account, from which I originally paid for the card, and there was no credit shown.

I just send a WTF to Greg asking where the supposed refund was sent. I fear this incident may have spoiled me from buying from GM in the future if any purchase may be rejected by some dickhead at CSG. And I don't know if they rejected it because of authenticity or CSG didn't agree with GM about the grade. Card buying is supposed to be fun, right?

Why is the person at CSG a dickhead? Maybe they were correct in their assessment.

Absolutely!

Because they are interfering in a transaction between two parties who want to do the deal, I think. Their assessment is correct, but no one involved in the deal cares what they think, but their deal is nixed because an unwanted third party arbitrarily says they can't do the deal. I wouldn't phrase it that way, but I see the sentiment.

I'd wear this to my card show.

I suppose we could always modify the adjective just a little here.

Greg, spot on. My sentiments exactly. All I want is my card or my refund and I have neither. CSG's involvement is a fly in the ointment and totally unnecessary in what should be a simple transaction between the buyer and the seller. Let's face it, CSG is the weak sister among TPG'ers and I have never have or contemplated using them for grading.

Maybe EBay should allow an 'opt out' of the EA when you check out.

Basically buying the card as-is. I'd certainly do that as I am fine with what I buy raw.

Have you contacted eBay support? No refund still is troubling. Greg (Morris) doesn’t have the ability to refund it, as I understand, because eBay is supposed to do it automatically at rejection. If they haven’t refunded yet AND have mixed your deal, that’s really bad.

Yoda — CSG is the one who authenticates the raw cards. PSA inspects that graded cards.

Here is a link that explains the process:

https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-...-tradingcards/

The auction ended on October 16th, correct? If so, the card should have been in CSG's hands within a few days after payment and they would have made their "assessment" a couple weeks ago. Seems off that it's only going through the authentication process now.

And as others have said, if a card is rejected by the authentication program, refunds are automatic and implemented immediately at the time of rejection.

Does the tracking actually show that Greg Morris sent it? You would have gotten emails directly from eBay about the authentication process.

And as a seller, I am 100% in favor of the program for many reasons. As a buyer, I believe that you should have the option to opt out of the program, but if you do so, you lose any buyer protection - meaning no refunds for any reason and no support from eBay on the purchase.

Something isn't right here. If the card was really rejected, EBay would have refunded your money. Greg saying he refunded is not how this works.

If EBay didn't refund you and you never received an email from Ebay saying the card failed, I'd question whether it really was sent to Authentication at all.