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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>well, the saga continues from that PSa/DNA Frank Hayes card. It turns out the Joe banned be from using PSA services. a while ago, i bought the collectors club, and i sent in card last week. <br><br>they are being returned to be because according to customeer service, i am banned from using PSA per Joe.<br><br>now, i am in a battle to get my $99 club fee back.
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>What did you expect? Yes, they made an error. But you went out of your way to publicly embarass them. It could have and should have, been handled much better.
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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>And we needed to know this for what reason? I'm no PSA supporter, but the way you handled this situation left a lot to be desired.<br><br>James
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Your $99 battle is going to cause you, and us, about $1000 in agony...
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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Brian,<br><br>I'll pay you $100 for that card in the PSA holder! I'd love to be persona non grata by PSA, even though I'm not a member of their collector's club. It's almost two weeks into this new year and I still haven't broken my new years resolution of bashing PSA. Not once I have stated that PSA sucks on this board. That's pretty darn good, for me.
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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Fred,<br><br>i sent an email to Joe.. if i do not get the answer i would like, i will sell you the card.
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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>fred very generous of u and it looks like the MS org is getting $50. i hope you can get that tax deduct somehow.
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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Brian - the money from the cards you sell goes to fight MS? That's a great charity effort!<br><br><p><br><br><br><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/mwieder/ForTradeSale" rel="nofollow">My Trade/Sale Page</a></p>
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Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>would I be opening up a can of worms if I asked what the issue was / and how it was handled?<br><br><br>
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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>This is very bad news indeed. I thought I was the only one Joe has personally banned from using PSA services. Looks like I have been dethrowned.
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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>i am the KING!!!!!<br><br>but i just want my $99 back for the "club"<br><br><br><br>
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Joe D,<br><br><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1231189732/last-1231431474/Scan+1939+Play+Ball+Frank+Hayes+PSA-DNA+Goof%21" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1231189732/last-1231431474/Scan+1939+Play+Ball+Frank+Hayes+PSA-DNA+Goof%21</a>
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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>I thought 75% of the sale was to go to MS?<br><br>Steve
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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>let's not start this again.. please.. sure, are you buying the card? <br>EDITED THIS POST FOR NOW
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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Start what? 8 other people replied to this nonsense too.<br><br>Why single me out? I asked because the last I saw <br>you had raised the % to 75%.<br><br><br>Steve<br><br>
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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>NOT SAYING THIS MESSAGE FOR NOW.<br><br><br>Steve
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Brian, <br><br>You seem to be missing one huge point. Rather than wait for PSA's response (which was to offer you far more than the card was worth, and more than you paid), you chose to use Ebay to take out a huge "ad" solely for the purpose of embarassing PSA. <br><br>The fact that you twisted it to look like you were doing a good deed for MS isn't the issue. The % you promised to donate isn't the issue. You were intent on ridiculing a company that made a mistake. You succeeded. <br><br>Now you're shocked that they prefer not to do business with you? <br><br><br><br>Edited to add: Do we really need another thread on this issue?
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Posted By: <b>Sean C</b><p>Brian hasn't ruined his name and reputation enough on this board yet, so he'll keep creating threads until the task is accomplished.
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Posted By: <b>marty q</b><p> jim vb- you are right, we dont need another 40 post thread on this, this is a personal issue between this guy who is clueless!!! and psa. i guess he wanted a kings ransom from psa for this, instead he ""bashed"" them to no end and he is "schocked" he is banned!! what a @%#&*%^$. we dont care you are banned, and we dont care about your $99 bucks. you went from psa making it right to a $4,000 auction ??? you messed up and you pay the price. like i said, (other post) a family member has m.s. and had to have back surgery to straighten his spine, it went bad mind you, blood clots failed organs, etc, still in the hospital fighting since the week before x-mas, had it his whole life, when he collected for m.s. he never put half in his pocket!!!! all went for the cause pal!! i think you are pathetic!! what makes me wonder is why when you go to donate to m.s. through your acct over at the cu board it goes to your paypal acct???? what the heck is that!!! explain this???
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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>PSA's loss is Net54's gain.
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Posted By: <b>marty q</b><p> rob d- ""lol"" my pizza was shared with my keyboard.
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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Well I'm for Brian.<br><br>I doubt if it is in PSA's contract that they can unilaterally terminate the agreement AND keep the $99 if Brian does or says stuff PSA/Joe doesn't like.<br><br><br><br>Maybe I've learned from you guys. Some say that it doesn't matter if PSA made a mistake, nor how many mistakes; it is all about what they do to correct matters. BS. 1- They shouldn't make mistakes, 2- they didn't do much to correct this one, 3- they really need to reconsider the use of that word 'Professional' in the name.
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Posted By: <b>Doug</b><p>I'll recommend Amateur Sports Service for the new company name.
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Frank, <br><br>I'm not "against" Brian. But he was trying to both embarass PSA, AND, at the same time, profit from their mistake. His motives were never altruistic. <br><br>Even if 90% of the money went to MS (and he never designated a specific charity that I can recall), he was looking to take $400 out of the deal which was far more than the card was worth.
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>There seems to be a awful lot of banning talk going on. My only comment is that if the card was sniffed out properly and never put in a holder then none of this would have happened. Whatever happened to accountability in this country? Last time i checked if you make a mistake then quit using excuses and make it right. If all the members on here knew the card was a fake and it is easily spotted as a fake then what the hell kind of graders are working for PSA now that slabbed the worthless piece of trash? The single most important factor to a grading company is it's graders and if they start blowing it watch out.
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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>I need to make this clear.. the $4000 auction was not to sell the card. it was an Ad as someone already stated.<br><br>i have MS, and i figured is someone was actually going to buy it, money moght as well go to a good cause. <br><br>if i wanted to sell the card, i would put it up for auction with a $.99 opening bid like i do all my other auctions. <br><br>you do not get it.. i put $4000 because that is the max amount eBay will allow for an auction requesting instant payment... i wanted instant payment so no one would mess with the auction<br><br>think guys<br><br>
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>"you do not get it.. "<br><br><br>Oh, yes... yes we do.
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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Brian<br><br><br><br>Please take this kindly but I don't think you get it.<br><br><br><br>You had 50% then 75% of the sale would go to MS.<br><br><br><br>So if someone was foolish enough to buy it YOU would have kept<br><br>25% or 50% according to the auctions terms.<br><br><br><br>Again I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you but<br><br>that is what would have happened.<br><br><br><br><br><br>Unless of course ALL the money would have went to charity.<br><br><br><br>Steve<br><br><br>edited typo<br><br><br><br>
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Posted By: <b>bill</b><p>This guy is a con-artist! <br><br>He spent weeks on the CU forum begging for money because of some BS about a car wreck and his wife was sick and his dog needed a leg transplant (not really but you get the point). A forum user donated $100 to his cause which he immediately used to purchase a card on eBay for $150. Plus, while he is begging and posting story after story about his bad luck, he was dumb enough to post numerous threads about cards he recently purchased and had submitted to PSA.<br><br>As far as the Frank Hayes card is concerned, he stated more than once that he would not sell it after it was proven on this board and the CU forum that it was not legit. He also said that he would inform PSA of their mistake to maintain the integrity of the hobby. Of course, the day he received the card from PSA he listed it on eBay for $4000. The auction was pulled by eBay and I imagine Joe Orlando or someone at PSA had something to do with the auction being pulled. <br><br>With that kind of "integrity" do any of you really believe that he donates anything to any MS charities? If you do then you are as foolish as this thief.<br><br>If he has any rebuttal, I would gladly post all the other forums he is banned from or auction houses that he is on the prohibited bidders list. Yes, I did my homework.
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Well...I gotta say I believe him that more than anything he wanted to put the auction on ebay to embarrass PSA. And IMO PSA deserves any embarrassment that comes there way for the recent gaffes that have come to light. How the heck does that "autograph" get authenticated? How does that Doyle card get slabbed??? Not once, but twice???<br><br>I don't necessarily agree with how Brian handled the situation, but I don't think PSA at this point deserves a chance to "Make things right". Mistakes happen, but this company has shown in the past that they do not own up to mistakes or you have to take them to court in order to make them pay for a "mistake". Let's not forget they also slapped a PSA 8 on the Gretzky Wagner...and well...we all know that card didn't come out of a cigarette pack.<br><br>PSA deserves no latitude at this point. They are a cancer on this hobby.
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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I give Brian a pass on this one, and perhaps PSA should also, as he is the one who paid for and received the apparently faulty opinion from PSA. However, from a practical and business perspective, if a customer tries to make a speculated/theoretical profit off a company's mistake, I could see why they might not be interested in examining more items for him.
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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>You left out the goodwin trimmed Plank.<br><br><br><br>Yes PSA is making too many mistakes, does not allow for this guy<br><br>to use a charity as a way to make some money.<br><br><br><br>If he was so sincere ALL the money from a sale of that card would have gone to MS<br><br><br><br><br><br>I'm on a kidney machine 3x a week and I'm not out there using my disability<br><br>as an excuse to make money. <br><br><br><br><img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif"><br><br><br><br>Steve
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Brian i will say this you have balls the size of cantaloupes. If i had MS never would i do what you did. Everytime i go to the racetrack there is a guy who is afflicted and he never asks for anything, he cleans the bathrooms and works harder than most of the people there. I buy him tickets all the time and never once have i heard him complain about his disease or say anything negative. He is highly spiritual and i asked him one time do think God approves of you working here and his reponse was "God does not mind because there are several Racetracks in heaven" I died laughing and i just love the guy.
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I do not know Brian, and I don't read the CU board so his history is not known to me. Sounds like he does not have a good reputation. I do know PSA's reputation and I've made my comments. I don't normally unload my feelings about grading companies because I know many people here love them so I guess I've said enough.
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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>1. if anyone wants to buy the card for $4000, i will set up an ebay auction, and 100% of the proceeds will go to MS research... let me know<br><br>2. i have never used MS as a crutch, far from it.<br><br>so, come with the $4000 offers now..
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>I agree with both what Dan and Steve said. What i do not understand is how are these mistakes continue to happen at PSA? The baseball card industry is a billion dollar playground and PSA is it's 1 grader and authenticator. There should be penalties for these mistakes. I know several owners of high end auction houses and if the hired help authenticates fake items they are terminated immediatly no questions asked. There is already to much corruption hence my original post on the matter.
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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Marshall I'm not sure that it is corruption I think it is <br>more like incompetence. I only use PSA/SGC to grade cards so I can sell them on Ebay.<br>I have few non sports card sets slabbed. The vast majority of my cards are raw.<br><br>I prefer to grade my cards myself. I don't need anyone to tell me what a card is.<br><br>Unfortunatly the people that buy from me do.<br><br><br><br>Are we at 40 yet?<br><br>Brian I said if someone was foolish enough.<br><br><br>Steve
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>I understand your point Steve however when mistakes are made you never truly know what happened. If Bernie Madoff can scheme 50 Billion then anything is possible. In my opinion PSA should have graders at different levels. If a card has potential to be a 4,000 card or higher then only a elite grader should grade the card. If someone wants to send in a Joe Flacco Bowman Chrome rookie card then it's a whole different story. Also here is a known fact that we all know in the hobby- No one submits 1962 Topps Football cards to PSA and how come?
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Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>I'm sorry I asked.
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>First of all if ... No anonymity in this thread. Make sure you are well known or your name is out here with a good email address....<br><br>Did I miss something or was Brian offered a refund by PSA and it was turned down? If there was one offered, it should have been taken and this should be a moot point...I am not making an excuse for PSA but my understanding is they offered to make Brian whole, no? regards
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Posted By: <b>jay wolt</b><p>"1. if anyone wants to buy the card for $4000, i will set up an ebay auction, and 100% of the proceeds will go to MS research... let me know <br><br>2. i have never used MS as a crutch, far from it. <br><br>so, come with the $4000 offers now.."<br><br><br>Brian if I or anyone would wish to donate any $$$ to MS<br>they would take it directly, as opposed to you offering<br>a fake autographed card for a $4K lure of a donation.<br>By the way, my wife's a nurse who works in a MS facilty, <br>so I know about MS all too well.
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Leon,<br><br><br>In one of Brian's first posts, on the original thread he mentioned he got it for $0.99 cents.<br><br>Later, he said PSA offered to compensate him.<br><br><br><br>Re: Scan 1939 Play Ball Frank Hayes PSA/DNA Goof! January 7 2009, 11:08 AM <br><br><br>not that i want to beat a dead horse, but besides PSA-DNA contacting me yesterday and offering $75 in cash or grading vouchers... They suspended my PSA message board account.. i guess they want to shut me up on that site. <br><br>Yep, they make the mistake.. i bring it to light, and the kick me off their site.. thanks PSA!<br><br><br><br> <br>
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>PSA is in major ban mode now. They are going to keep on with the nonsense until someone presses the right button and calls the attorney general of Ca in regards to their business practice and grading system. To many people have been burned and if you look on the front cover of this month's SMR report that Mantle PSA 9 is so off center it isn't funny. I truly 100% believe if you cracked that Mantle out and walked it into a show it would grade a 8 and they would argue centering. Once again way to much variance in regards to grading and i will not even get into authenticating autographs.
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Marshall, <br><br>I understand your frustration and I am certainly not defending PSA but look at the facts in this case. <br><br>A guy bought a card for 99 cents. PSA made a mistake and authenticated the signature. When it was pointed out, they offered him $75. He chose to go to war by setting up phony Ebay auctions and trashing them on several different sites (CU, here, and Ebay.) They banned him from their board and closed his account. <br><br>Why is anyone surprised?
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>I agree with what your saying but my point is there are way to many cards sliding by and the grading has become ridiculous. Over the past three weeks i have seen several mistakes from Fro-Joy,T-206's to autographs and horrible grading. All i want from the company is to be consistent and i will say another thing in regards to PSA their customer reps are HORRIBLE! To me the two things a CEO must understand in the public eye is 1.Customer service 2.Damage control and if those two key ingredients are taken for granted watch what happens to the company. Here is a small but true case in point. <br><br>I sold a gentleman a third set of 24 American Beauties and because of how i was treated he is taking his cards to SGC. It does not sound like much but over time it adds up. By the way what should be banned is that Mantle on the front cover of the SMR i can't stand to even look at it.
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Jim...how in the world does anyone authenticate that signature? I'm sorry the guy should be fired on the spot or take a long look at how these guys are trained and what experience do they have?
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>LOL. That's last month's SMR. The new issue you get Manny being Manny. At least February is a short month!
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>"Jim...how in the world does anyone authenticate that signature? I'm sorry the guy should be fired on the spot or take a long look at how these guys are trained and what experience do they have?"<br><br><br><br>I agree. Maybe he was fired. I have no idea. But I do know that the owner questioned PSA. Waited less than 24 hours for a response. And then ran several fraudulent Ebay auctions just to embarrass PSA. <br><br><br>There is no excuse for missing that sig. There is no excuse for missing the Doyle we've been talking about. Same with the Fro-jos. (Since I'm not really into grading or registries, I don't find the Mantle as ugly as you do. I'd take it off someone's hands if they couldn't stand the sight of it. Email me for my shipping address!) <br><br>But that has nothing to do with Brian's campaign, launched before they could even respond. <br>
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Sorry Jim i stand corrected. To put Manny Ramirez on the front cover of a publication in itself speaks volumes about the company. Are they serious about collecting cards of the super slugger?
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Jim you are correct. I don't agree with how Brian tried to hold the card over their heads. <br>
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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Well, i have been talking with Joe O. via the email. i am going to call him tomorrow morning, everything will be fixed it looks like.. bans lifted and everything.<br><br>you guys have me thinking...<br><br><br><br>
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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>That is wonderful news. But I hope it doesn't mean this will curtail the PSA threads.
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>"oy".....say what you want to but Joe O has some patience on this one....regards
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Posted By: <b>Doug</b><p>"If you look on the front cover of this month's SMR report that Mantle PSA 9 is so off center it isn't funny."<br><br>I'm actually going to agree on that one. That's the first thing I thought when I looked at it.
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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>This scenario is a perfect illustration of why incompetent grading companies, dishonest auction houses, ignorant autograph authenticators, etc. always will have a place in this hobby. Brian bashes, ridicules and tries to hold up PSA for its incompetence but in the end is willing to let bygones be bygones because he "need(s) the grading service right now."<br><br>Similar to bidders who suspect they're being shilled but continue to buy from an auction house because a "must-have" card is being offered, many folks who bash the grading companies are quick to hold their nose and submit their cards when it suits their needs.<br><br>It's laughable.<br><br>(Brian, this isn't meant to pick on you, because there are hundreds of other who would do and have done the same thing.)
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Sometimes you just gotta laugh.
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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Hey Brian,<br><br>1- Great if you get things worked out. That would be a good resolution.<br><br>2- You can't "need" the "service", but it does sound like you got serviced...<br><br>3- To be clear, I have no problem with PSA banning Brian, so long as they give him his $99 back. But to ban him and keep the $99, that's wrong. They can't have both.<br><br>I finished "Ponzi's Scheme", by Mitchell Zuckoff last night. An interesting read. Zuckoff had put a bit too much anecdotal stuff in there about various folks who bought Ponzi Notes... but it was a good book to clearly explain what he did, how it worked. Sure does remind me of some ball card collectors and some card grading companies.
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Leon it's not about patience it is about politics. The guy was banned and obviously PSA does not like the negativity so now the ban is lifted and Joe is e-mailing the guy. I am going to come forward on some information tomorrow morning and we shall see how old Pro Scam Alliance is doing.
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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Not that I agree with it but it appears they can terminate someone AND keep<br>the 99.00. I'll defer to the lawyers but:<br><br><br>TERMINATION<br><br>CU reserves the right, at its sole discretion, immediately and without notice to suspend or terminate the TOU, your account (if you have registered) and/or your ability to access the Site, for any reason including any breach by you of the TOU or conduct by you that CU determines to be inappropriate.<br><br><br>In any event I'm happy Brian and Joe have formed a dialogue over this matter.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br>
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Thanks for the post Frank. Did anyone ever stop to think why we have this garbage .5 system now? Everyone knows that modern graded card prices tanked from 2005 to 2008. Guys were no longer chasing modern graded 10's of rookies and submissions slowed so in order to put a charge back into the hobby and get alot of submissions we'll just add the .5 to the game. Now every Tom ,Dick and Harry that has a PSA 8 vintage card wants it bumped to 8.5 so someone else can try and bump it to a 9.
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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Absolutely right, Marshall.<br><br>And in a few years we'll see .25 grades, that they'll then be able to discern given advances in grading technology, not doubt. That will shake a new bunch of coins out of the pockets of the graded card guys. And the grading 'services' will probably take the position that they're offering it because people asked for it, being the forever helpful and accommodating folks that they are.<br><br>As for PSA's right to terminate the agreement AND keep the $99, I can't imagine that that would be enforced in an equitable proceeding... but who knows? Not many folks will try to out-lawyer them over $99. Instead they'd, hmmmm... post the mistake (that had been dealt with with light indifference), yea, post the mistake on eBay!!! That's the ticket.
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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>I think we've got a love connection.
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>And we'll be back in two and two. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif">
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>"I am going to come forward on some information tomorrow morning and we shall see how old Pro Scam Alliance is doing."<br><br><br>Oh good! Because a day without a PSA thread is like a day without sunshine! <br>
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Is it me or am i the only one that finds it odd that you do not hear much about SGC? Every day there seems to be a new Pro Scam Alliance post about some mishap. What would be nice if Mike Baker could start a company that only graded cards that were worth 500 and up. He really is the only grader i would trust on a high dollar card. It's a shame about GAI.
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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>Not only do I think keeping the $99 is legally OK, instances like this are common. <br><br>If you go to an Amusement Park or movies and cause yourself to get thrown out, do you get your admission back? No.<br><br>If you make terror threats on a plane flight and don't make it to your destination, you won't get reimbursed or your frequent flier miles either.<br><br>Buy a drink and then get thrown out of a bar.<br><br>I bet some of you can think of everyday instances like this.
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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>I am going to come forward on some information tomorrow morning and we shall see how old Pro Scam Alliance is doing."<br><br><br>Oh good! Because a day without a PSA thread is like a day without sunshine! <br><br><br>lol my thoughts exactly.<br><br> <br><br>Steve<br><br>
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Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>I can't believe the guy is even worried about the 99 bucks. I mean where is he going with that? Who is he kidding in stating he now needs the grading service. For what? To me PSA is like Adrian Peterson- Great stats but drop the ball way to many times.
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Brian,<br><br>You don't need PSA. They need you right now. They want that embarresment off the street. You're "holding all the cards". If PSA treated you poorly now what makes you think they're going to treat you any better after they get THAT card back in their hands? Why not switch to SGC? They have better customer service and they seem to have the respect of many vintage collectors. <br><br>I'd really like to get that card (in the PSA holder) and let it be a reminder to PSA that they can do a better job at grading cards and providing better customer service. <br><br>I guess that Joe is going to put on his corporate face and do back flips to get that card out of your hands. I personally wouldn't settle for any amount of grading vouchers. Seriously, would $500 worth of grading vouchers be worth selling out to PSA? Vouchers basically don't cost PSA a thing. It's pretty much transparent to them. If you're going to deal with PSA stick with CA$H. <br><br>Don't let them sucker you into feeling important. Like I said before, after the card is back in their hands Joe wont be talking to you very often, he'll sit back and tell all his buddies that he just took back a potential "ton of grief" and all it took was a little bit of sweet talkng and a couple of vouchers. He's going to be laughing his rear end off after the card is back in his hands. <br><br>Do the hobby a favor, keep the card or sell it to someone that will know when to pull that ACE out of the hole when necessary. <br><br>Does anyone consider that PSA bashing? I don't want to break my new year's resolution (this early) and bash PSA. I don't feel what I wrote was bashing PSA, it's not like I said that PSA SUCKED, or anything like that. <br><br>
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>seriously, i think you guys are way overestimating the level of concern psa has for this card. psa/orlando could care less whether this card is destroyed or not. ultimately it's all about the bottom line...$$$, whether the amount psa has to pay out for this card or the "hit" they'd get reputation-wise because of it. judging by the amount of mistakes the last few days and even as far as publishing one of them, psa/orlando is actually being nice in this case as it would cost them VERY little here with this card.<br><br>REAL TALK
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>7 day logic there, Eric.... weak.<br><br><br>With your examples you'd be inside the amusement park, inside the plane, inside the bar. And they're putting you out. <br><br>What if a week before you use your amusement park tickets, or your plane ticket, you post something on the web negative about the park or airline? Then it would be fine for them to refuse admission to you and yet keep the money??<br><br>Honda doesn't like how you drive the car you bought, they come and tow it away, keeping it, no refund. Or I sell you a card with expressed fine print in the listing that neither you nor any subsequent owner shall get it slabbed...<br><br>I don't think I'll change your mind about the idea that if PSA closes the door to Brian with his grading or membership or however that works, that they also get to keep his $99 for nothing. I see no reason that PSA should be able to keep his $99. $99, then charge a guy for grading on top of that... how do they keep a straight face?
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Quan it is very obvious you do not run a business and understand damage control. PSA is concerned about the card because it really shows their vulnerability when it comes to authenticating autographs. If that horrible thing can pass then how many slick fakes are gonna slip through?
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Quan is right, Having dealt with PSA during problems, I completely agree with Quan.
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>JudgeDred2</b><p>Dan, <br><br>Is it possible that PSA may have learned from their mistakes with you and how they handled that incident? Probably not. <br><br>It sounds like Joe O is now willing to talk to Brian. That's a positive change. In this case it's an ugly mistake that speaks volumes of the actual service that PSA is supposed to provide to hobbyist/dealers/clients. In your case it was about a card (a HUGE card) that disappeared, in this case it's about a mistake he wants to make disappear. There is clear cut evidence available that proves that PSA really screwed up. If it were a signature that was close to being correct then PSA could argue it was their "subjective" opinion that it was real. In this case they don't have a pot to piss in. <br><br>The way I see it Joe wouldn't give Brian the time of day if he didn't care about this. I'm just hoping that Brian doesn't fall victim to VOUCHERs. I'd ride on my principals and not let PSA have it back. However, in a case like this if someone is going to settle for something I would hope it's CASH (lots of it) and not some vouchers and the promise of having a "personal" line of communication with the head of a company that proves time and again that there are new lows that can be achieved.
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>That would surely be a step in the right direction Judge! The next step would be sending me my legal fees that they state on back of their submission forms that they will pay if you win a judgement against them in court. I got screamed at and hung up on when I requested this from Joe.
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Dan,<br><br>Did PSA pay you for your legal fees? If so, I know it was begrudgingly. You sure must have a way with Joe. The sad part about your dealings with PSA is that a nice card was lost. On a positive note you did go in as David and beat down Goliath.
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>No he didn't pay me. I called and asked for them based on their claim on the back of their then submission forms. He just screamed at me for slamming him on Net54 and hung up on me. I think he likes me, I got a Christmas card from him this year.
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Dan...what card was lost? Did they reimburse you the value of the card?
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Magie error T206 and no Marshal, I had to sue them to get my money. I won the case but lost 6 vacation days, legal fees and travel that cost me $1800.00. Though I won, I lost. Search the board, the posts are here. Dan.
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WOW - Banned From PSA
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>you guys really have me thinking.. i do not really need the PSA service, i have lived without for years and years of collecting. <br><br>i am just not sure how big of an impact this card will have on PSA.<br><br>
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