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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Once again a potential Triple Crown winner met defeat. I am hoping no one here bet the farm on Big Brown.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Can any expert explain what happened? Big Brown was last.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>No one could be that dumb to bet big money on a 1:4 shot, I would assume.<br /><br />"I had no horse...something was wrong." Such empathy. Couldn't help but notice that after the jockey jumped off BB he didn't even turn around to look at him. I guess running the horse with a cracked hoof was worth the risk when you consider all the money that was at stake. Darn.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>So far nothing. They are going to check for any respiratory problems. Nothing seriously wrong, he just got his butt kicked by inferior horses. It happens....

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Jeff- Unfortunately some do. I bet that some even thought they were going to make a killing by betting a ton of money in the show pool, knowing he would AT LEAST finish 3rd. Gulp <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Presumably nearly every bettor lost -- as the boxes, trifectas, etc. all came up empty. I feel bad for the horse only in that he may be hurt and was forced to run with an injury. The ugliness of Eight Belles' demise and now this...

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>I keep thinking back to Spectacular Bid going for the Triple Crown and running the entire Belmont with a safety pin jammed in to his foot and still gutting it out to finish 3rd. No one ever mentions him but he was a helluva horse.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>The latest is that Big Brown is being called the Bobby Bonds of horse racing. This was his first race without any steroids in his system. Makes you wonder....

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I'm sure if the owner and trainers thought that steroids would have helped that cracked hoof they would have given him some. Well, at least the horse doesn't have to race anymore.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Big Brown looked like he was suffering from the intense heat...mid 90's in NYC.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>It really is unbearable outside in NYC today -- it's like breathing fire with the humidity. I'm amazed that these horses can even run in this.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>A quarter crack is a painful injury and doubtless the horse was hurting, despite the treatments. It was also reported in The Bloodhorse, that Big Brown had suffered rundown (a scraping of the heels, due to contact with the track, while running) injuries to both rear heels, during the running of the Preakness and photos of his rearheels after the Preakness, showed that he had bled in them. This was a horse in some degree of pain, which may have worsened during the course of the race.<br /><br />The heat, the distance, also, may have come into play.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Ya'll don't know heat...In Dallas it's around 95 today...with a heat index of over 100....it's sort of hard to breathe outside if you aren't used to it. All in all I am ok with the racing but I wish they would outlaw steroids...If all of the horses were on an even playing field it would be just as fair as it is today....which I believe is a field in which steroids are allowed, at least from what I have read on the board...regards

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jeff- it only reached the low 80's in Sag Harbor...we had a gorgeous day.

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p> Hi Leon,<br /> You don't know heat....smiley. It was 94 degrees at 10:45 am when I drove through Columbia, SC today with a heat index of 101. By the time my Dad passed through at 1:15 it was 98 with an index of 110... Now that's hot...<br /><br /> Be well Brian<br /><br />PS I wouldn't want to be in the middle of NY at 95 either... no air moving. Glad you were on the coast Barry....

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'm only two hours east of NYC but when I watched the 6:00 o'clock news it was 93 in the city and 76 on the east end. Huge difference.

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Posted By: <b>Jeremy</b><p>Guys - Maybe I was asleep but has the media ever mentioned any of the other horses and their schedules of Steroids ? I get that Roids are part of horse racing, some/most use a form of Steroids (Winstrol,etc.), but with the Trainer open about Big Brown taking 1 scheduled round a month (on the 15th)and then did not give him a round on the 15th of May, makes me wonder... Even more, I wonder if the media or any journalist has reported on any of the other horses and were they given steroids ?? If BBrown has been taking regulary, winning 5 straight, then taken off (to prove a point by the trainer)I have to be skeptical about the whole gig... Obviously, they are looking at banning Roids in Horse Racing, but what Horse Racing fans need to know is of the horses that raced today, who was juicing and who was al natural!? (How the heck do we know what slant the playing field is??) This is what bothers me the most about all this... Accountability... 2 cents<br><br>~ Jeremy ~

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Posted By: <b>Matthew</b><p>Im in Queens 10 minutes from belmont. It is in the 90s today. On the racetrack it has to be even hotter.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>What a disgusting "sport"...running a horse with a cracked hoof, checking his lungs for blood after the race and deciding to forgo a round of Winstrol (Canseco's drug of choice).<br /><br />Big Brown: Coming to a French restaurant table soon.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>I'm sure there will be some excuses but the bottom line appears to be that 1) he is not physically hurt (asst. trainer just said so on the radio) 2) he didn't give his bst effort today and 3) he got his butt beat. I can't remember the last time a horse attempting to win the final leg of the Triple Crown gave such a lackluster and flat race. Ever.<br /><br />Villanova basketball team over GTown, '69 Mets, '69 Jets, '78 Orange Bowl when Arkansas beat 31 point favorite and about-to-be national champ Oklahoma, and now Da' Tara. Just a few of my favorite upsets (I wasn't around in 1915 to watch the Miracle Braves) <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Considering that BB was probably the biggest favorite in the history of the Belmont suggests something more was wrong than just a bad effort. <br /><br />Next time someone claims how much horseracing people love their animals, just point to Kent D's reaction after he hopped off BB today: no concern or interest in his horse, just total disappointment and disgust. You'd think BB just got caught cheating with Kent's wife.

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Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>You want heat? I grew up in Palm Springs. Try 129 degrees. People from the East Coast always said "Yeah, but it's a dry heat." My response was always the same: "So is your oven."<br /><br />I will have to admit that the heat was worse in one humid place. I drove through Little Rock when it was 108 degrees, with 102 percent humidity. The guys on the radio explained that the humidity scale is defined at sea level, making humidity levels of greater than 100 possible at other elevations.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Speaking of heat - I suppose the worst I've ever endured was about 15 years ago on the Mississippi river in New Orleans. It was already 90+ at about 9 AM..I walked out of the cabin on the boat we were staying on and my glasses fogged over in about one second. The second worst heat I've experienced was in Hot Springs, Arkansas about 10 years ago.

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Posted By: <b>Patrick McHugh</b><p>First off i still think bb was juiced up. Every and i mean every racehorse is at all times shot up to the max. This horse had an obvious injury that may or may not come out in the press. Do not belive what they tell you on tv. Second i am not sure but kudos to the winning horse it was the first time i remember a horse going wire to wire in the belmont now that is big. 10 min of big brown coverage and not a shot or mention of the winner. typical american media hype that tells you right there how biased the whole thing was and leads right back to my first point.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Patrick- They have to thoroughly document when the horses receive their steroid medication and it is well documented that this was the first race Big Brown ran without being on steroids. <br />I agree with you on the rest of it though, the lack of attention paid to Da' Tara was criminal and the racing crew acted so stunned that they were running around without a clue. Sadly Jim McKay just died and he was a great horse racing fan and commentator who, had he been there announcing today, would have shown professionalism and class and the proper attention being paid to Da' Tara.

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Posted By: <b>Jeremy</b><p>Patrick - I believe the Trainer by his behavior and BBrown's track record, was arrogant enough to believe BB could do it with out the usual round of juice. (So, I guess I am a fool by your words for believing this...) I think he wanted to prove a point, as he was privately getting hammered by folks around the circle about his statements on juicing the horse, the media, activists, etc. He was so sure of himself even right up to race time, that I think the trainer fell victim to BB's run and hype... He believed he had the Special One of a Kind Horse... Why would the trainer publically say to the media that he forgone the roid round and then risk looking like a absolute blow hard by telling a lie ? Could this missed round of Winstrol leave BB with out his edge ? I personally think it was a combination of the 4 factors... Heat, 1.5 mile track, cracked hoof, and the super juice. But what do I know... I am such a fool. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br><br>~ Jeremy ~

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Posted By: <b>Patrick McHugh</b><p>Tbob when was last documented steriod shots? reason asked is from bodybuilding standpoint roids are still humming for 4 -8 weeks after cycle depending on person. Have to belive the same for animals. Also i will disagree as i belive winstrol shot is 1 to 2 times a week. In pro bodybuilding this is par for the course and in horse racing the animal with steroids grows to be 150-200lbs bigger. Much respect to you tbob and yes we both agree media coverage horrible. Also Tbob do you ever remember a horse going wire to wire in the belmont? I do not.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>BB was such a huge favorite because the field was so lame in all three races. Even today his quasi-competition was a scratch. Looking at his times, BB was hardly one of the greatest horses of all time.

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Posted By: <b>Patrick McHugh</b><p>Hi Jeremy no disrepect to you my statement may have been a little broad. You bring up many interesting points. I feel this year that steroids for the first time have been brought to the publics attention as most people never really thought this was part of the game. Think McGwire Bonds Clemans etc. Steroids have been a part of all pro sports including horse racing since the mid 70's And in some cases even before that date. The trainor may say oh big brown no winstrol shot this month what about his deca. nand test or winnie shots? You see when at the pro level the amount of abuse is out of control. I apoligize for calling anyone a fool my words were harsh. The media tells part of the truth all the time and all of the truth none of the time. I just was bummed by the lack of coverage the winner got . Do not know hope someone does but did we witness history a belmont wire to wire winner?

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>The TV commentators showed great hubris by virtually giving Big Brown the triple crown and ignoring the rest of the race. This will go down in history as one of sports' greatest upsets, and it might even become a metaphor for failure, as in "don't pull a Big Brown" or something like that.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>I think Seattle Slew went wire to wire in the '77 Belmont.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Affirmed went wire to wire in the 1978 Belmont although Alydar was right with him a nose to a head behind all the way around. Slew did go wire to wire in 77. Of course Bold Forbes lead every single step of the way and won in 1976.

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Posted By: <b>Jeremy</b><p>Patrick - Thanks for the follow up - No harm, no foul... I think we were all a little upset about a number of things about this race (Coverage). Firstly, it took them 3 minutes to even show the winner. Heck, my wife who does not even follow the ponies even asked me why they have not shown who won the race... Everyone banked BB, and they got burned. Make no mistake, he had a nice 5 race run... Very interested to see where he goes from here... I am sure UPS will continue their assault on horse racing in the last hour... bahahaha....<br><br>~ Jeremy ~

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Posted By: <b>brian</b><p>Back in July 1982 at Lackland AFB, it was 100 degrees by breakfast and the high temp hit about 120 degrees every day for a whole week. We still had to march and run in that heat. Airmen were passing out in droves.

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Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>You guys live in a climates that are too hot and humid for your collectibles. Send them all to me for safe keeping. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Patrick I agree with some of what you say. Sports news is celebrity driven to a fault these days. If Tiger Woods wins a tournament, the headline is "Tiger Wins." If Tiger loses, the headline is "Tiger Doesn't Win." That the last place horse gets 10x more coverage after this race exemplifies this. No matter what the race order, the headlines were going to be about Big Brown.

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Posted By: <b>J Paul</b><p>From the overhead shots it looked like maybe Big Brown maybe handle the track. The composition of the Belmont surface is different than Churchill or Pimlico and some horses just don't handle it. Like running on the beach.<br /><br />Desormeaux knew he had no chance before they hit the stretch so he eased BB to the wire. Had he thought he was hurt he would have pulled him up and got off as soon as he could. <br /><br />Could have been the heat, could have been the track, maybe just wasn't his day.<br /><br />Nice to see a crowd of over 120,000 show up.

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Nobody mentions the bad ride choked the horse down for close to a mile in extreme heat and then expects him to run when let loose. No wonder he had no more clients in california and left for NY. Dutrow will not let him within a mile of big brown and will use Edgar Prado if the horse ever runs again.

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Posted By: <b>CN</b><p> It is ironic that Big Brown has already been reportedly sold for 50 millions to stud. I agree with an earlier post that Spectaculat Bid was the best horse that lost the Belmont but that was in 1979. On a side note I was not there today but was present when Funny Cide and Smarty Jones lost and I rank those races up with the 1986 and 2000 World Series and game 7 of the 2006 NLCS as far as fan excitement. Nothing will surpass came 7 of the 1994 Rangers which I was lucky to be in MSG for .CN

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Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>I was at the track today to watch the breakdown - heat was unbearable - track temp was 97 degrees and with the heat index, felt much worse. It looked like BB just was too tired and didn't have anything in the tank. Over all though, I had a great time. One of my good friends and co-worker owns Ready's Echo which had a dead-heat for 3rd place.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>In contrast to the sentiment on this board, nice to see such huge attendance at the Belmont. <br /><br />Well I dropped a couple hundred on the Belmont--took exactly what I won on the Kentucky Derby and Belmont and dropped it on the nose of Big Brown.<br /><br />This horse was a super horse every other race he ran--don't know why he didn't run today.<br /><br />Can't wait to see a Big Brown-Curlin match-up.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim, I really doubt BB was a super horse. His times were not eye-popping in either of the first two races and he had the worst finish for a Kentucky Derby winner in the Belmont -- despite being the biggest favorite ever. And all of this against inferior competition. In the end, one has to wonder if BB wasn't just a product of steroids. Maybe yesterday's big flop will finally cause the racehorsing industry to outlaw steroids and other chemicals which may be providing skewered results.

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Posted By: <b>Dave Haas</b><p>Big Brown trained about an hour away from me in Ocala, Florida. He should be used to the heat and humidity. I just figure the owners couldn't win any money at 1-4 so they bet on the 38-1 horse. They already had sold breeding rights for BB for $50 million.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>"...Kent D's reaction after he hopped off BB today: no concern or interest in his horse, just total disappointment and disgust."<br /><br />Jeff- i actually noticed the same thing...i was expecting him to go around front, and pet/comfort him (somewhat)...he barely pet him on his side after he got off...i thought that was strange too. but i do have to say that Kent (in his past interviews) seems very concerned about the horses he rides, and has a connection with them.<br /><br />overall the race was a dissapointment, and it seemed like (on TV anyway) that Belmont was silenced as they came down the stretch...<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Wonder how many $2 win tickets were purchased in bundles to sell later as memorabilia for a Triple Crown winner?

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Another reason why this "sport" should be banned.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Change perhaps, but there's no reason to ban horse racing. Race horses love to run, and that's a fact. I know polo horses love to play polo and get excited when you start taping their legs, as they know that's what happens before they play polo. A friend of my dad owned polo horses and said whenever you took the horses out for a ride, they'd want to go over to the polo fields.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>David, do horses also like to be shot full of steroids and whipped around a track?

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Jeff- You forgot the part about being ridden by a midget, but I suppose some people are into that.

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>I have read that steroids will probably be banned in horse racing sometime next year. As far as the whipping goes, I don't think smacking an animal that large with a shoe horn hurts them, but since they can't talk we'll never know.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Does a welt hurt? Because horses will come back with them after an aggressive whipping.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I am with you. I hope the steroids thing gets looked at very hard. The horse's bodies being too big for their ankles to support their weight seems like a probable bad issue and a good candidate for the broken leg syndrome. As for the whipping I too wonder how much it hurts them? I am a MAJOR animal lover so I hope no one takes this the wrong way....but I think their skin is probably pretty darn thick and maybe the "whipping" is more like a pat on the wrist? I have gotten into major issues taking up for animals in the past, as I go way overboard in most instances, so I hope no one thinks I am not one that doesn't care about animals. I love them almost more than humans.....As for being ridden by midgets I couldn't say anything on that issue....but I would guess that would be the least of any problems....

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Posted By: <b>David Goff</b><p>Do you know there are steroids with therapeutic purposes? Some horses are on steroids for that reason. It helps with allergies, chronic inflammation and other conditions as well. Every state where racing exists has laws which prohibit the use of performance enhancing drugs in race horses- and ALL race horses are tested before and AFTER every race, every single time they run, throughout their entire careers. There is a long list of prohibited substances, and it's the trainer's responsibility to know what is and is not allowed- and those horses who test positive for illegal or banned substances can be barred from racing permanently. In addition, there are stiff penalties for people involved in such behavior- and these can and do range from fines, to loss of licensure, to jail time in many cases. Any prize monies won by horses with illegal drugs in their systems become forfeited automatically. I know that Kentucky state law forbids performance enhancing drug use in race horses. So I don’t know why everyone thinks that every single race horse is on performance enhancing drugs. There may be a few trainers that cheat, but majority of them are clean and look out for their product as do Jockeys. I can't believe someone would say that Kent was disgusted with Big Browns performance. If he thinks something is wrong with him, he will let up on him and after the race get off as quick as he can so the doctors can look him over. More than likely Big Brown did not want to race Saturday. Horses are like people sometimes. If they don’t want to do something, they just wont do it. It doesn’t mean he is on drugs. <br /><br />My dog died of cancer last year. He was on steroids to slow tumor growth. Did I abuse him for feeding him steroids? By the sounds of this thread, I did...just my opinion.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Funny how people that support causing injury to others will always use euphemisms to rationaize and lessen the pain inflicted. Now getting whipped repeatedly is described as being flicked with a shoe horn. Paul, if it was your backside that was being whipped I doubt you'd describe the whip as a shoe horn.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>If whips don't hurt, what is the rationale for suspending jockeys for "aggressive use of the whip"?<br /><br />Also, the quote below, is from an AP interview with Larry Jones, the trainer of the tragic Eight Bells: <br /><br />"I don't think we need to make (the whips) out of foam rubber, but you could get to a happy medium where you know it's not going to hurt them and the horse would still know what you want them to do."<br /><br />Sounds like Jones believes that whips hurt.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>David, you're just deflecting the issue. Dutrow claimed he gave Big Brown Winstrol even though a) he didn't believe he needed it; and b) he didn't even know what it did for Big Brown. Yes, there are good reasons to give humans and animals steroids even though they can cause damage to a body over a period of time. Such was not the case with Big Brown. I don't know too many individuals who would want to take steroids just for the heck of it.<br /><br />Now tell us next how great the whip feels.

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Yes, I guess a welt would hurt. So would a twisted ankle, a raspberry on your ass from sliding, throwing 100+ pitches every 5th day, getting elbowed going up for a rebound, etc.. You really can't compete in any "sport" without at least a slim chance of injury.

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Quit twisting Jeff. I'm certainly not in favor of causing injury to animals for sport and I did say "smack" and not "flick". From my perspective it just doesn't look like it hurts them that much. Maybe it does, I don't know. If it is proven to hurt them, then I'm in favor of banning the practice.

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Posted By: <b>David Goff</b><p>I am sure the whip does hurt, but maybe not as bas as some may think. If it would greatly hurt the horse, wouldn't the horse fight back or maybe bite the jockey. I don't know, but when I watch a race and see the jockey whip the horse, I just see the horse run faster. I don't see him/her get hurt. <br /><br />As for Dutrow, I mentioned some trainers cheat and I was referring him to that comment. He is an arrogant &^%& and I was glad to see him lose. Now if it were Nick Zito, D Wayne Lukas, or Bob Baffert training Big Brown, it might be a different story.<br /><br />Oh well, we will have to wait another year for a chance at a triple crown.

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Posted By: <b>Darren</b><p>Congrats to Big Brown for winning two crowns. I hope he is well.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Though it's been pointed out before, it seems it has to be said again While humans, aware of the possibility of injury, make the decision to indulge in sports, animals do not - they are forced to compete.

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Yes Bob, I am aware. I think that most race horses, given the choice, would choose to run for glory. My limited experience with horses tells me that if a horse doesn't want to do something, then they simply won't.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Respectfully Paul, I doubt that horses understand the concept of "glory".

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>My guess is that most horses enjoy the racing. Greyhounds enjoy the race, as no one's riding or whipping them-- they're just chasing. Most sled dogs enjoy pulling the sled. I don't think steroids should be used, except for legitimate medicinal reasons. Obviously there can be abuse of race horses and dogs, and I'm against that.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"but when I watch a race and see the jockey whip the horse, I just see the horse run faster. I don't see him/her get hurt."<br /><br />If that sentence doesn't crystalize this debate I don't know what would. <br /><br />Edited to add: guys, with all respect, your claims that the horses love to run, love the glory, etc. sounds frighteningly similar to the rationale provided by Scott Elkins as to why cock fighting is ok.

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Posted By: <b>David Goff</b><p>Bob<br /><br />Do not underestimate these athletes. Horses know when they lose and when they win. They all want to be the center of attention.

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Posted By: <b>David Goff</b><p>That is just my opinion Jeff...

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Jeff, if the races horses were being forced to do something they didn't like, I'd be against it. Horses enjoy running, it's hard to argue against that point. Whether they like or dislike this particular kind of running is the question. Do I think a sport built on the backs of animals is problematic and has the potential for animal? Yes. Do I put the animals' welfare comes before the sports' money and television ratings? Yes.<br /><br />To some outsiders, dog sled racing appears to be abuse of the dogs. But those who know the sled dogs know most can't wait in the morning to be put in their harnesses to run. Those who us who own dogs know you can figure out what a dog loves and hates to do. As with humans, dogs have different personalities, temperments and not all like the same things. I'm sure there are dogs who would dislike pulling a sled with other dogs.<br />

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Jeff, <br /><br />With all respect back at ya, are you serious? That's a pretty big stretch. Now if someone offers an opinion that differs from yours re horse racing, you immediately lump people in with cockfighters?

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Paul, all I said was that Elkins' excuse for cockfighting is that they 'love to fight.' And now the horse people are saying that 'horses love to run' which is being used as a reason why it's ok to run them around the track on 100 degree days, while being whipped (albeit with a shoehorn says you) and after they are shot up with steroids. Just because the horses don't fight back does not suggest tnat they are in any way agreeing to such treatment.

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>If race horses love the glory, love to race, love the attention, lets make it the real deal....<br /><br />Horses line up, no gear on them, no jockey, the gates open, and the first one that chooses to run around the track twice and finish in front at the post - all in search of attention glory and the sheer love of racing - gets a nice crystal dish it can display in it's stall....which of course it chooses to return to every night after spending the day grazing un-fenced in the greater pastures.<br /><br />My money's on the more likely result: Some horses going one way, some the other, some necking, some screwing, lots of grazing, and not one of them 'choosing' to race for any of the said motivations. I'd like to see the greatest horsetrainer/whisperer in the world sell the idea of racing to a horse in search of these obviously human and un-horse like traits. Horses don't have an inbuilt drive to 'chase' and bring down prey, which is what greyhounds are responding to when they run after the lure. They're not in it for any of these aforementioned humanistic desires arbitrarily given them to justify the weirdness of it all. Which of course is simply to allow us to compete in yet another arena because we've exhausted the human arenas or our imagination.<br /><br />Oh, and if by chance you think racing a great industry for the horses themselves because every now and then the public can get excited about one 'Superhorse', tell that to every broken down horse that didn't know the stakes - being sold off if it's super lucky as a pony for a rich kid, if it's kinda lucky as a polo horse to a rich stiff who doesn't beat it for not performing, or if it's as usual - finding its way inside your can of dog food. I'd love to see the statistics on how many horses get to live out their lives and die of natural circumstances - not junked because they didn't make the grade or couldn't be afforded any longer by a fickle family, but I guarantee they would horrify the most casual and un-informed followers of horse racing, which most on this forum are.<br /><br />The whole thing is sick.

Belmont- The graveyard of champions
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>You have to think one way or the other, racing is pretty stressful on a horse. Their ankles are too thin, they are pushed to the limit of their speed, they are shot up with drugs, and they are whipped to run faster. If a horse had a choice, I think he would prefer grazing. Of course that is just a guess.

Belmont- The graveyard of champions
 

Posted By: <b>David Goff</b><p>Thoroughbreds are bred to run right from the time they are born. That's all they want to do. If you are ever in Central Kentucky, be sure to check out the horse farms. The horses run and run all the time. Of course they graze, but the majority of the time they run.

Belmont- The graveyard of champions
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Your injury point is a good one, Barry. Though one would have to compare the injury rate of racers versus the injury rate non racers before one could draw a valid conclusion. If one doesn't know the normal injury rate of non-racers, including idle grazers, it's impossible to say that injury rate of racers is higher.

Belmont- The graveyard of champions
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Thank you, but I don't think I mentioned injuries.

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Good point Barry.

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Posted By: <b>David Goff</b><p>OK...I have more important things to worry about now. <br /><br />Like when is the new iPhone 3G going to come out. It has just be introduced...

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Having grown up in Dairy Country where the cows spent their summer days free to roam vast natural fields, I can tell you that cows prefer grazing to running and would consider it abusive to be forced to run around a track. Left to their own devises, cows stand, lie down or walk slowly.<br /><br />When I was a kid, there were what we called 'cow paths,' which were narrow dirt paths made by a heard of dairy cows taking the same route over and over. As the area was hilly and tricky and cows prefer level ground and simple routes, humans would follow these convenient, neat paths.

Belmont- The graveyard of champions
 

Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>With respect David, I grew up around horses a little myself and my wife jumped them for a long long time. Her best friend looks after many of the horses of the rich and famous, so I've had a little exposure.....<br /><br />Horses love to run. Absolutely.<br />Horses don't race eachother. Ever.<br />In the same way that they love to breathe, eat, and socialize, yes they love to run.<br />But it's not racing, it's never racing, and just because a few from selected bloodlines get to live a peculiarly specific lifestyle that is rewarded with better treatment when they do better, doesn't mean it comes naturally to them or they would choose it over regular horse life. Mabybe in a Harem or Herd you'll see some leadership by a Stallion or Mare when it's time to take flight, but they're not 'racing' eachother. They're all just acting as a herd and attempting to move away from a percieved threat, after all the last one out the back is usually the first one eaten in nature!<br />But racing is just a weirdness we thrust upon them, where we rigidly control their every experience so as to mold them pavlov-like to perform as we're asking.<br /><br />I'm telling you, the further back you stand and look at it all - the weirder and more grotesque it seems.<br />

Belmont- The graveyard of champions
 

Posted By: <b>David Goff</b><p>Daniel<br />I respect your opinion, but being born and raised in Louisville, I will always follow horse racing. To me, its a beautiful sport. Either you are for it or against it. I guess there are no true winners on this debate..<br /><br /><br />7/11/2008--3G iPhone to be released<br />