|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>I was reading the daily SABR-L digest and this opening line caught my eye from a post Jay made<br /> <br />I am working on a book about the Old Judge baseball cards set <br /><br />I, for one, am excited to see someone working on what hopefully will be a definitive study of this set.<br /><br />Regards<br />Rich<br /><br />P.S. Now if we can only get Doug Allen to publish his long awaited T206 book <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>How about getting Doug to respond to his statement about taking creases out of cards?<br /><br />Many moons ago said "I have no problem with taking out light creases or surface wrinkles that do not break the surface"<br /><br />Then he said he would report back to us after talking with SGC and PSA.<br /><br />Maybe I missed his response.<br /><br />Also Leon made a comment that Doug told him "it wasn't worth the grief and that he no longer has his staff remove wrinkles or creases from cards".<br /><br />What is wrong Doug with stating your company's policy on this publicly.<br /><br />1)How active were you(Mastro Auctions) in removing creases from cards in preparing them for grading. How many cards would you estimate that you and your staff removed creases from?<br /><br />2)Is Leon right and you have not instructed your staff to remove creases anymore?<br /><br />3)What was the reaction of SGC and PSA to your removing creases? Did they condone this?<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>rob</b><p>Hey Rich,<br /><br />Is that the kind of response you were looking for when you started this thread?<br /><br />Boy, talk about a rude, negative hijack to a positve, excited post. Good stuff Jim.<br /><br />Rob
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Jim-<br /><br />Wouldn't it be easier at this point to just call Doug a raving lunatic and throw dog poop on his door step?<br /><br /><br />Dave
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>as i've mentioned before, i have read the manuscript of the T206 book that Art M & Doug wrote, it is thorough and very detailed. hope it eventually gets published.<br /><br />regards,<br />MS
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Thanks--maybe we can finally get Doug to respond?
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- you're going after Doug on two different threads, and he is actually agreeing to speak with you privately. Why don't you guys just chat at a convenient moment and not drag this onto the board.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />Because its a hobby issue--not a personal issue. Here Doug has a chance to turn around the company's reputation and explain its policies. Why would he not want to do this?
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Who would- with an introduction like that.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I don't want to speak for him, but he may not want to do it because it is so easy to get attacked when one discusses controversial matters on the board.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Jay mentioned this book about 2 weeks ago here on the board that he would like some info on a few of the teams represented in the set. I only collect one team, but I can tell you that I am quite excited about this book as the N172 set is IMO the greatest baseball card set ever produced. If I ever win the lottery look out....
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />I am not asking for a discussion just a statement as to what his companies policies were and are today in regard to crease removal from cards.<br /><br />He said he would come back to the board with an explanatiion after talking with SGC and PSA--we have given him over a year to have that conversation.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />No disrespect intended but you, given your absolute, complete, unconditional no-holds-barred refusal to in any way be willing to take your altered cards out of their graded holders (and indeed instructing PSA upon resubmittal to return any non-upgraded cards in their original holders), calling Doug to task for his previous comments about taking creases out of cards is akin to Libya chairing the U.N. Human Rights Committee.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Corey,<br /><br />You are incorrect but I am surprised that you condone taking creases out of cards and would not want an explanation? You don't care about card alteration and would rather use this to(once again) attack me?
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>Darn it. I had the 9:45-9:59 p.m. time slot in the "When will Jim Crandell accuse someone of attacking him" pool.<br /><br />Just missed.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Do you takke creases out of cards too Anonymous?
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Rich:<br /><br />I'm not a subscriber to SABR-L, so I was wondering if you could tell us what more info there is about this book? I'm finding myself gazing at my lone Old Judge more and more, and thinking it would be great to learn more about the issue so I could feel more confident in bidding/buying.<br /><br />Any other info?<br /><br />-Al
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Leon-<br /><br />I told you we were overdue. Leave it to Jim. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br />Dave
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Richard Cline - RC</b><p>I for one would love to hear about the books, great post I might add, and leave this other debate on another thread that I can choose to ignore.<br /><br />RC
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>First we had a masturbation and now a perturbation.<br /><br />Let's move on <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>"You are incorrect but I am surprised that you condone taking creases out of cards and would not want an explanation? You don't care about card alteration and would rather use this to(once again) attack me?"<br /><br />Please tell me one post I ever made in which I condone card alteration. I think to the contrary I have been an outspoken critic of the practice. Rather what I and many others have been trying to impress upon you to apparently no avail is that you cannot credibly be a critic of the practice if by your actions you do not back up your position. And your refusal to take your altered cards out of circulation is such an inconsistent action. <br /><br />Suppose you were to ask PSA to look for alterations. And suppose they were to find some. Would they not offer to compensate you such as to make you substantially whole for your loss? If not, then THAT it seems to me would be as newsworthy a practice as any that has been exposed on this board.<br /><br /><br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>are akin to the movie groundhog day........the alarm goes off in the morning but they just keep coming back.......<br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Tom,<br /><br />Do you disagree with me?<br /><br />Do you think its okay to take creases out of cards or would you prefer to sweep it under the rug.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Corey,<br /><br />I will be glad to debate you privately on this but instead of changing the topic you seem to say that Mastro's past practices are wrong. Wouldn't you like to know what their policies are now and have the president state this?
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />Yes, but it just rubs me the wrong way when it is you asking the question.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>However, when you proclaim that not ONE of your cards has been altered -- that is almost a mathematical impossibility --- especially on the pre-war cards. Now I do believe that your cards 57 on up are all legit. However, I do find it hard for you to want to start the revolution but duck to the rear when YOUR cards are brought up. It's nothing personal, but in my opinion only -- it hurts your worthy cause<br /><br />Regards<br />Rich<br /><br /><br />Edited for the heck of it
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>The 50's and 60's cards would be the most suspect with all of the card doctoring that went on in the past. Many cards were improved a grade or two, even the ones right out of vending. Razor sharp, but just a bit of recentering needed. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Scott,<br /><br />Everyone that I know in the hobby think low-to-mid grade prewar cards have the most that are altered--particularly ungraded. Of the 15-20,000 cards I have sent in, the highest percentage that came back altered was prewar.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Rich,<br /><br />I said that tongue in cheek. As I said many many times I would like to stop the flow of altered cards into the hobby. What is already out there is water under the bridge. <br /><br />Anyway, what do you think about taking creases out of cards and would you like to hear if the largest auction house in the hobby still does it?
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Jim, you collect low to mid grade pre war cards?<br /><br /><br />Steve<br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Steve,<br /><br />No--just 8s or better--just saying that dealers I have talked to about alteration believe prewar ungraded most likely to be altered.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>SO, all these ungraded cards in old time collections or even on this board have a high number of altered cards? <br /><br />Sorry to say you have been sadly misinformed. <br /><br /><br />Edited to add, that you have nothing to back your statement up except "dealers told me" Perhaps you should learn about cards yourself and not take the word of others, especially if you are going to spend quite a bit of money on them. <br /><br /><br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Scott,<br /><br />Not old time collections but sadly a lot of what is out there today is not able to be slabbed as it is altered or simply sold raw altered in an advertised better condition.<br /><br />Jim
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>I'm against any type of altering -- and when you chat with Doug can you get him to answer MY question about his T206 book <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Regards<br />Rich<br /><br />Edited to add a specific request of Jim in his conversation with Doug
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p><<What is already out there is water under the bridge.>><br /><br />Its never too late to do the right thing.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Rich,<br /><br />Good for you! Nice to hear someone stands up for what is right and wrong.<br /><br />Sorry to mess up your thread. If Doug calls me I will get you an answer.<br /><br />Jim
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>Your out of your league in this argument, you have no idea or proof to back up the off base assertations you make. Again I would suggest you learn about the cards of which you speak first hand. <br /><br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Trevor Hocking</b><p>First off this thread is SO badly hi-jacked it is sickening. Really Jim very very bad form. I think this was a great question to start off Rich. I have read and Art and Doug's pre-printed book as well and it was very very well done and wish too someday it can be published. I am so looking forward to Jay's and Joe's N172 book that I will be buying a signed copy <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />But this has taken a very very wrong turn so I guess I will say Scott is SO right Jim. I believe that there are way more unaltered pre-war cards raw than in holders. Please note I said unaltered.<br /><br />Trevor Hocking
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Scott,<br /><br />I would suggest asking an expert. Ask Dave Forman or Joe Orlando or Mike Baker what does he see the highest percentage of alterations in.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>I might be takin crazy pills or something here Jim but doesn't it stand to reason that the reason your "dealer friends" are telling you it is the low-to-mid-grade cards are "more altered" is because they are selling you high grade cards? <br /><br />They don't seem to be the most impartial people in the equation if you ask me. <br /><br />What would they have to gain by saying that it's the 8's and 9's that are altered, other than decreased business that is?<br />-Rhett
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>A long time ago, I hijacked one of Jim's threads -- so I have no problem with that he hijacked one of mine -- however; can we go back to book information now <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Rich
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Rich<br /><br />Thanks for the post. I hadn't noticed the note in SABR-L, and I'm looking forward to Jay and Doug and Art M's work. <br /><br />Max
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Rich,<br /><br />I never forgot that and I have been waiting to get back at you <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Rhett--I say asking the presidents of the grading companies--they will tell you.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Jim:<br /><br />On May 27, 2007, in this very forum, Doug Allen of Mastro Auctions posted this:<br /><br />"...neither myself or anyone from my firm will ever engage in the alteration of cards. We will disclose alterations that we note in items that are consigned to us and will continue to scrutinize cards submitted to us that have already been graded by an independant service. I refuse to say anything else on the subject..."<br /><br />You did, in fact, read Mr. Allen's post, as evidenced by this response that you made in response to him:<br /><br />"So Doug to reiterate the question that Jeff asked again and has been asked by numerous participants on this thread and which you continue to avoid,is it Mastronet's policy today to take creases out of the cards to "prepare" them for grading?"<br /><br />To help you better understand the answer that he had already provided you, Mr. Allen responded with this:<br /><br />"I have answered the question. We do not alter cards that are submitted to grading services I am not dodging any questions and am not leaving any wiggle room. You all seem focused on crease removal so I will answer that specific question. PSA and SGC do not allow for anything that applies undue pressure on a card including crease removal. That would be considered an alteration of a card in keeping with this this is prohibited by my employees."<br /><br />Nine months later, you are still asking the same question of the same man, in every thread on this board that mentions Mr. Allen's company. In fact, you have mentioned in more than one post tonight that you never recall Mr. Allen addressing the issue of policy regarding card alterations on this board. And yet that is clearly not the case, as evidenced by the excerpts from your own posts above, you clearly read and understood Mr. Allen's responses to the very same questions you are asking today.<br /><br />If you are looking for some different answer to the question, please specify. If you don't believe Mr. Allen's answer, please specify. If you have evidence that would refute Mr. Allen's earlier policy statement on this board, please elaborate. We'd all love to hear it. But the place to do it would be in a different thread. You are interfering with other discussions, and I seem to recall you being a pretty vocal opponent of thread hijacking.<br /><br />I am interested in learning more about a potential book on N172s. That's why I opened this thread. If you want to beat up Doug Allen, please go to the designated Doug Allen Beatup Thread, which I believe is entitled "Mastro or Memory Lane," and is the perfect place to discuss clarifications on matters of policy, ad spending, and secretaries.<br /><br />-Al<br /><br />Edited for grammar, because I am a monkey.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>Al:<br /><br />While there is nothing funny in anyone getting beat up -- I cracked up when I saw your post about the designated Doug Allen beat up thread. If I were in a Chat room right now -- I would be typing ROTFLMAO<br /><br />And let's get back on target about books. <br /><br />Doug, can you answer my question about your T206 book -0- I don't have a secretary so I'll just email you direct <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />And Jay -- any idea when the book you're working on will be done -- I am really looking forward to reading and adding that work to my library <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Onward! March!<br /><br />Regards<br />Rich<br /><br /><br />Edited to add a few more lines that should make us all smile
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>I believe thats checkmate Jim.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>Al-<br /><br />Bravo
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Al, you sure know how to ruin a perfect train wreck.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Doug Allen</b><p>First of all I second what Al said...wait a minute all he did was repeat what I said. OK I will confirm again that is what I said.<br /><br />Rich....not sure when the book will be published. Maybe I will dust it off and get it published this year. So much other stuff going on.<br /><br />Hey maybe Jay will let me publish both in one volume...the the two greatest tobacco sets ever issued....whatcha think Jay???<br /><br />Doug<br /><br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>ramram</b><p>I too look forward to the publications.<br /><br />Leon - if Jim hijacks one more thread can you PLEASE suspend him! I'm sure everyone is sick and tired of this crap.<br /><br />Rob M.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>Al wins this thread. Game over.<br /><br /><br />Doug, add me to the list of people interested in reading your book and gaining more knowledge on OJs.<br><br>Go Go White Sox<br />2005 World Series Champions!
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>Jay is working on the OJ book<br /><br />Doug has the completed manuscript for the T206 book<br /><br />Just so you can keep it straight <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Having read both Doug/Art's T206 book and Scot Reader's, I would suggest combining the information in the two of those into one book. I have the two bound together personally as they have much complimentary information. I also look forward to Jay's OJ book. Perhaps doing it together with the T206 book is a good idea. Whatever format you all choose, I will be buying a copy. I would suggest using a lot of color photos.<br /><br />JimB<br /><br />P.S. Maybe we should all just ignore Jim Crandall. The blatant hijack of a good thread was the height of arrogance and narcissism.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>Rich,<br /><br />I too am excited about both of these books. Thanks for the post.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>So I guess the answer is that he admitted to altering cards, does not do it any more and will not disclose how many he directed be altered?<br /><br />Accoreding to Doug's prior response, SGC and PSA do not allow for anything that puts pressure on a card(crease removal)which Doug admitted to. So Doug did you know that this was their policy when you directed your people to remove creases or were you unaware that PSA and SGC forbid this practice.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- nobody wants to see any kind of unethical behavior in this industry. But Doug has already stated very clearly, in a company email (I think) that Mastro Auctions no longer does anything to a baseball card to improve its appearance or grade. Why do you keep harping on this? We all agree with you- altering is bad- but Doug has already addressed this in writing.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />As I said there are a number of questions--here are two<br /><br />1)did you know that you were in violation of SGC and PSA policies while you were dircecting your people to alter cards?<br /><br />2)How many cards do you estimate you altered--when did you start altering cards and when did you stop?<br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>So let's say Doug comes on the board and says "Okay Jim, you nailed me, I personally altered 100 cards." How does that help?
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />You would not like to know who altered cards and who doesn't--boy I would--it would make it a lot easier for buying.<br /><br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>How are we to keep track of previously altered cards? Even if someone told you which cards they altered how would you find them among a future pool of cards for sale?<br /><br />If I told you I took a crease out of a 62 Mantle, would you closely inspect ever 62 Mantle that crossed your path, hoping to avoid buying that card? I think you are asking for information that will not make it any easier or safer for you or anyone else.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Rich, this thread can't get off topic again unless it first returns to the topic. THEN it could wander again...
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p><<You would not like to know who altered cards and who doesn't--boy I would--it would make it a lot easier for buying.>><br /><br />Jim:<br /><br />You make it sound as if there are some people in this hobby who are nothing but bad....card alterers extraordinaire who do nothing but feed bad cards into the hobby. Why must it be so black and white for you? Even if there is a successful card alterer, his success is predicated upon his ability to pass his materials through grading companies. Once they are professionally graded, there are dozens, if not hundreds of avenues by which said person could get his card circulating through the hobby. Ebay, Auction houses, Ebay consignors, etc. Even some of the people whom I believe are card alterers (hi, Gary!) have at least accomplished rudimentary ways to get those cards into the hobby.<br /><br />That's the whole problem, them. Once it is out in the hobby, where it goes is anyone's game. I hear and read stories of T-206s, T-205s and other pre-war cards that are traded, bought and sold, or otherwise trade hands at least half a dozen times over the course of a year or two. At which point, you've pretty much killed any chance of being able to simplify the problem by trusting some people, but not others.<br /><br />Of course, the flip side of the issue is that a collector's best defense is to understand card alterations as best they can. Jim -- you mention in the past that in the 1980s, you purchased runs of sets from Alan Rosen, some of which contained altered cards. Have you inspected those cards to see what the alterations are? Have you inspected any of the cards in your personal collection? I believe that your biggest issue with this hobby is that you want to trust the grading companies to be correct 100% of the time, but you cannot. However, you do not trust yourself, or are otherwisde disinclined to personally examine your acquisitions to see if any of them are potentially problematic. <br /><br />Jim -- at what point will you realize that you are in the minority? Yes -- many of us have concerns about card alterations. Me -- I've educated myself and figure I can do a better than average job on evaluating a card. But your fascination with this topic is akin to Gollum's fascination with the One Ring. The rest of us want to enjoy this hobby, which is why we participate in these and other forums. You have completed hijacked this thread (and another) simultaneously. Is there any chance that you will actually read the messages and tones that other collectors are using with you on threads like these? On occassion, it is amusing in a Peter Chao kind of way. But you've ruined another great thread, with the same premises that you frequently harp upon: not adding any new information and dragging up the same old ****.<br /><br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />To me the issue is not the individual card. It is the person.<br /><br />I ask myself would Barry Sloate knowingly have altered a card in his lifetime. To me the answer is 100 percent no. That makes me much more willing to do business with you.<br /><br />Would Doug Allen knowingly have altered cards--yes--he admitted to it--how many? who knows? Would I buy cards from him--possibly but I would try hard not to.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>I think I can attest to the existence of many, many people who have stopped posting on this board and have greatly reduced their readership here because of your paranoid, idiotic ravings. Doug has already answered your question and yet you (1) refuse to acknowledge it, (2) continue to hijack threads every time Mastro is mentioned, and (3) refuse to call Doug and talk about whatever bug it is that is up your @$$ despite his standing invitation for you to do so. I and many others I talk to are sick and tired of your antics which, as Al has pointed out, are nothing more than worthless grandstanding. Either drop it or leave. <br /><br />I urge everyone who feels the same as I do to email Leon and let him know that you are sick of this garbage clogging up legitimate discussions of our Hobby. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Marc,<br /><br />You are misrepresenting what I have said in the past. I have a couple altered cards that I got from Alan Rosen--I have zero problem cards from him otherwise--please get your facts right.<br /><br />I like the message board to discuss and hear about serious issues--not to enjoy the hobby--I think its a serious issue--you don't fine.<br /><br />Lastly as you know better than anyone I could care less what others think--I can be a minority of 1 or 3 or 5 and often am--others want to be popular on the message boards and never say anything that is actually interesting--at least to me.<br /><br />Best to your family--i am in disappointed in you Marc--I expected better.<br /><br />Jim
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Jim - so what you're saying is that if someone committed come impropriety 20 years ago, and hasn't done it since, you still wouldn't trust them? You're not really into the whole people learning from their mistakes thing, are you.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Matt,<br /><br />No--for example I would be willing to forgive JP Cohen for his crimes.<br /><br />My requirement is that they come clean. All Doug needs to say is yes I altered cards over a period of years accounting for x number of cards and I sincerely regret doing this. Then he should say I did it or did not do it with the full knowledge that SGC and PSA consider this to be wrong.<br /><br />If he did that I would forgive him immediately.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>You have lofty standards for forgiveness - a public admission of wrongdoing and an apology. Of course, since they are your standards, you certainly can refrain from bidding on Mastro's auctions. The rest of us seem satisfied that he has agreed it is no longer done.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Fair enough Matt--<br /><br />Would you feel differently if he never responded to my question and never admitted he did this.<br /><br />With all the flack I am getting if I had never pressed the issue in the first place or never pressed him to elaborate later it would never be known that he altered cards and directed the alteration of cards and perhaps he never would have stopped.<br /><br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Jim: "With all the flack I am getting if I had never pressed the issue in the first place or never pressed him to elaborate later it would never be known that he altered cards and directed the alteration of cards and perhaps he never would have stopped."<br /><br />The flack you are getting is for continuing to push the issue after he answered the questions to our satisfaction. I appreciate you bringing the issue to light in the first place, but there was a time to let it be.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Jeff Prizner</b><p>no, he's just an attention slut
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>"Would I buy cards from him--possibly but I would try hard not to."<br /><br />Why don't you try a little harder. To buy cards from him would seem to me to be hypocritical inasmuch have you have branded him with the scarlett "A".<br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>There are some cards I just gotta have so I would bid--there are others that I might bid on that I would let pass.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Thank you to those who appreciate me bringing the issue to light in the first place--now we will see if there is a public or private follow-up.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>This is great stuff - Jim, you keep altering the questions that you want Doug to respond to. First you wanted him to admit to pressing cards and state whether he has stopped that practice. Once shown that he has explicitly answered those questions; rather than admit you are riding a dead horse, you've added more questions for Doug to answer: how many, what was done to each, when did you do it, and on and on - as if that information could help you at all. Suppose Doug were to come on here and answer your additional questions - are we really to believe that you would then be satisfied? I dont. I think you would then simply come up with some other "issue" to press (no pun intended).<br /><br />
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>I presume that AndyC88 has properly identified himself? If not his negative posts should be deleted.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Hey AndyC88 - why dont you stop hiding behind your keyboard and identify yourself per the forum rules since you are not well known to the board.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Trolls rarely identify themselves- don't hold your breath.
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>JK,<br /><br />Thank you.<br /><br />Yes my questions did change but if he came on and publicly addressed the following four questions I would stop and become a good customer again:<br /><br />1)How long did you alter cards for<br />2)How manty cards during this period did you alter or did you direct to have altered<br />3)Did you know while you werte doing this that PSA and SGC considered it to be wrong<br />4)Apologize to the hobby for doing this. Thanks to most for their support.<br /><br />Jim
|
Jay Miller and Doug Allen
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Check me if I'm wrong here Jim, but just a week or two back you were gushing over some Gary guy who has a reputation for altering cards - I did not see any public demands from you in that instance.
|
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:50 AM. |