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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Saw this on a different forum. Hadn't heard anything about it until today. Sellers are planning on taking a week off later this month.<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/3bwc4d" target="_new">http://tinyurl.com/3bwc4d</a>

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Ebay will probably counter with a dump day, so hopefully the Mike Wheats and 707s of the world will read this and pledge solidarity.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I already have commitments to several consignors. Am I a scab if I put cards up for sale that week?

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Posted By: <b>James Gallo</b><p>I won't be posting and if I have a choice I won't be buying anything that week either.<br /><br />The sellers need to tell ebay that it isn't all about the buyers.<br /><br />As for you Barry, is a week going to make a difference to your consignors? Ask them they may not care, but honestly I think a lot of people are just going to stay off ebay that week and it might hurt your sales.<br /><br /><br />James G<br><br>Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: <b>brian</b><p>I won't be listing that week. They should have a one week boycott every month.<br /><br />I won't be bidding either.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'm hearing this for the first time, so I haven't had a chance to give it any thought. If everyone will be down that week, I guess I will have to do the same.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Not more than 10 minutes ago I signed up for not doing anything that week...on that same thread.....ebay is going to feel the effect.....and I have read all of the talk regarding the issues of it having an effect or not....and I still think it will....at best they are going to lose a lot of money that week.....

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Well, I won't list anything that week, but I can't promise I won't buy anything. What if someone puts up one of my holy grail items???

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Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>I'm in that week as well. I won't list anything for the week of Feb. 18-25.<br /><br />If it works great. It will be interesting to see how Ebay counters this, which obviously we know they will.

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Posted By: <b>ramram</b><p>I've been in a cave. Can you tell me what it is that ebay is doing?<br /><br />Rob M.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Raising their seller's fees, changing their feedback system to hurt sellers, and just acting like corporate America always does when their stockholders aren't making enough money.

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Doesn't a boycott only work if it continues until demands are met?<br /><br />How will eBay be hurt if it has no traffic one week and double the next?

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Posted By: <b>Dwight</b><p>Won't sell Feb. 18-25

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>To make this really affective they should coordinate a NO BIDDING week at the same time. You want to hit ebay, get them both ways. <br /><br />We would all probably agree to this but when we see the bargains that are available - SOMEONES GONNA CRACK! We're all weak... ok, most of you would be... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>So we can't LIST stuff the week of Feb 18-25. Can stuff be listed on Feb 17 and its "live/running" the week of Feb 18-25? Or must all of our auctions end before Feb 18?<br /><br />Thanks for the clarification!<br />Rob<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Just read Barry's post... no, you wouldn't be a scab if you listed that week. Just the consignors luck the buyers would hold out also. <br /><br />Would I be a scab if I picked up the item for 50% of its normal value if we also did a buyers strike? An SOB for sure, a scab... probably <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>Reminds me of that recurring email not to buy Exxon/Mobil gas on a particular day which will bring the gas companies to their knees!<br /><br /><a href="http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp</a><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>And it worked! Exxon/Mobil only made $40 billion profit last year. That'll teach them!

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>Personally, I think I'll strike the week of Feb 25 - Mar 2. The strikers from the week before will have twice as much stuff listed that week. That's when the realized prices go down.

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>&lt;&lt;And it worked! Exxon/Mobil only made $40 billion profit last year. That'll teach them!&gt;&gt;<br /><br /><br />Ummmm, Barry, that was the LAST QUARTER, not last year. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Robert {Bigb13}</b><p><DIV>Maybe some of us buyers should go on strike and teach some of you sellers a lesson. Some of you guys have shipping rates that are way to high I guess that's another way to get more money for your items out of us. Also with some of the delivery times &nbsp;some of you guys must walk the cards to deliver them so you can save even more money. And then you got to love the sellers that don't answer emails. And if that's not enough you have auctions that then they go over 200 bucks you don't even know who you are bidding against, easy for shell bidding isn't it? So if you think it's all fun being a buyer it's not. Rob</DIV>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- is that really true- $40 billion in one quarter?<br /><br />I gotta start charging my consignors more money! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Sorry Barry. I was pulling your leg. (Of course when you get to that amount of money, what difference does it really make?)

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Posted By: <b>Tony Galovich</b><p>I'm in, not listing 2/18- 2/25<br />doing a boycott once a month may get their attention<br />Hearing many ebayers are going to list many items on Amazon & Overstock<br />Some ebayers are leaving totally,<br />the New CEO is clueless<br />Their stock is tanking<br />Their listings keep dropping by the month<br />Is Ebay the Titanic of this century?

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I'm not a seller so I don't have the information to understand the hubub about Ebay's changes. As a buyer I feel that they are pretty much the only game in town. With Paypal and ebay fees combining to be a fraction of what an auction house charges sellers and buyers, along with the exponentially additional bidders that see items for auction, I think ebay is a great site. That being said, I think making bidders anonymous along with preventing leaving negs are ridiculous and unfounded. As for raising fees, there's more complaining about ebay than when Mastro went to 20% BP. What am I missing here?

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>More people buy from ebay than they do Mastro? That would be my guess. And while I have bid in lots of Mastro auctions I have yet to win one so that 20% BP really doesn't mean much to me...at least right now. <br /><br />Obviously the best solution is for all of us to just start using the B/S/T. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br />

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Jeff,<br /> You're not missing much.... This is more of stop gap measure than anything else. The EBay sellers are tired of having there margins errored by continual increases by EBay and Paypal and know if they don't stand up every once in a while they will become more common place. Let's face it, the boycott won't hurt EBay, but it may push the next increase out another 12-18 months, but in the end it will be passed along....<br /><br /> Be well to all Brian

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>I think ebay is biased in favor of the sellers.<br /><br />I will not boycott and will see if I can step up my purchases next week.<br /><br />Go Exxon Mobil!!

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Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>I am all about the boycott, but what do we do with our store inventory? I know I have spent countless hours scanning and building up ebay store. I cannot justify cancelling all of those items.<br><br>Jason

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Do you guys really think Ebay will even feel/notice this boycott?<br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Jason, you get charged no matter what on your store items so you may as well keep them going.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Exxon Mobil earned 11.66 billion in the 4th quarter of 2007. That same quarter they bought 7 billion worth of their own stock.<br /><br />So the 40 billion for the year may well be about right... for 2007. This year is looking even better.<br /><br /><br />So why the boycott / protest? Is it about feedback, fees, or what? A calm, cogent, succinct explanation, please. Thanks.

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>In.<br />Just tallied up what I paid them last year. Absurd, when weighed against the "service" (or lack thereof) I have gotten.

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Posted By: <b>brian</b><p>&lt;Do you guys really think Ebay will even feel/notice this &lt;boycott?<br /><br />Yes, they'll feel it. Especially if there is a boycott week every month. Some sellers have already closed shop and moved on. Who will take their place? No one.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>They aren't going to lose money. They aren't spending any in the first place....<br /><br />Maybe what we should do is all buy eBay stock, then vote Leon onto the board of directors....

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I don't understand the beef with ebay. They give sellers a platform to sell their items to the broadest audience in the auction world by 100-fold and charge the lowest fees by far. What is the deal?

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Heck if I know Jeff, I really do not see them even feeling this so called boycott. They must have a thousands of sellers and I highly doubt enough people will participate.<br /><br />But then again what do i know.<br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>James Gallo</b><p>Man so many of you are clueless.<br /><br />Ebay may provide a platform but they provide almost no protection. <br /><br />How many threads have there been about fake cards being listed and reported with ebay doing nothing.<br /><br /><br />They have created a monopoly and are taking advantage of it. The sell has NO protection at all.<br /><br />I have gotten 2 charge backs this week. One was a guy in France who never went to get his package so it was returned to me. The paypal rep I spoke to says I was lucky it came back because I would lose regardless. That is $30 pisses away.<br /><br />Most recently I sent the guy a different graded item. So he puts in a paypal dispute and they freeze the total payment which was for 3 items totally $355. Now I am stuck and guess what neither ebay or paypal care.<br /><br />I would rather pay the auctions houses 20% and not have any concerns over all the BS then say 10% and use ebay.<br /><br />Ebay is 100% buyer based and if you don't get that then you have never sold anything.<br /><br />I have been on ebay almost 10 years. I have had an ebay store for over 6 and I will party the day I can get rid of enough inventory to close and stop selling.<br /><br />Jason you can put your ebay store on vacation settings which will make it unavailable but will not end the auctions.<br /><br />ebay is just like every other big corporation. Poor product and high expense.<br /><br /><br />James G<br /><br /><br />I will boycott monthly as long as there is support for it.<br><br>Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: <b>Alan U</b><p>I don't have a beef with ebay, it's the only place I can get the cards I need and the only place I can get a fair price for cards I sell, even after fees.<br /><br />If ebay went away, basically my collecting would too, other than the B/S/T and I assume if ebay went away, the B/S/T would become unmanageable.<br /><br />-Alan

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Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p><i>Yes, they'll feel it. Especially if there is a boycott week every month.</i><br /><br />Brian, I'm curious: On what are you basing this? Do you have numbers on the business that eBay does in a month or what their net profits are in a 30-day period? How many sellers will have to boycott for eBay to "feel it"? What percentage of lost revenue will cause eBay to take notice? Or are you just hoping a boycott will make an impact?<br /><br />I'm all for the little guy taking a stand if he feels he's getting the shaft. But just what percentage of eBay sellers do you think even <i>know</i> about this boycott, let alone be willing to participate in it? Remember that a good number of eBay sellers do it full time; it's not a hobby or a source of part-time income. And also remember that it's the American way not to look past today in order to see the big picture. My guess is a lot of sellers couldn't be convinced to stop listing items for a day, let alone a week.<br /><br />I think you're kidding yourself and it's an emotional reaction to think that a substantial one-week boycott -- if it can even be pulled off -- is going to make much of an impression on the powers-that-be at eBay.

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>What Rob said.<br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>If ebay is feeling the pinch a bit and I think they must be or they wouldn't have all these dump days lately and the fee changes wouldn't have come about then I think they could feel it if enough people participated. The problem is I don't think enough people will even know about it for it to make much difference. And hey, at least we know that ebay doesn't police their own message boards the same way PSA does or the thread I linked to would have disappeared days ago.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>James makes some good points. I wasn't aware the protection was so one-sided.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>We all agree there is good and bad with ebay. I don't like the changes they've made lately and I know my seller's fees are going up. But I have to say, I don't think a boycott will make a bit of difference.<br /><br />So let's say a few hundred, or even a few thousand sellers decide to boycott that week. They have maybe five million items listed on any given day. Do you think if during the week of Feb 18-25 their listings go down by a tenth of a per cent they are going to even notice it? They may not even be aware there is a boycott going on.<br /><br />Let's be realistic. Ebay is a corporation, and all corporations watch their bottom line very closely. I hate the fact that they've made these stupid changes that will cost me money, but can anyone cite a business whose fees didn't go up over time?<br /><br />I haven't decided yet whether or not I will list that week. Imagine if you stopped buying gas every time they raised the price at the pump? If people are so concerned about corporate rip offs they would buy fuel efficient cars. Now that's a way to make a point.

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>What James said is accurate. Not only is there NO seller protection, there is NO customer service for sellers. For example- when deadbeat buyers don't go through with a transaction, there is no mechanism whereby the final value fees and original listing fees are automatically credited. It takes hours and hours online (phones at eBay are nonexistent) to work this out. They have similar issues with their other questionable billing practices.<br /><br />They way eBay deals with feedback is equally as ludicrous.<br /><br />eBay's failure to provide customer service, in addition to what James mentioned, is why "we people" are pissed. Most of "we people" are buyers as well, so it would make no sense for the sellers who are on this crusade, to simply want to "stick it to" the buyers.<br /><br />Finally- even though eBay may not go out of business over this boycott- there's no reason not to participate. With that defeatist attitude, why should any of us vote or speak out for any cause?

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Jeff, James, Barry... I agree that the ease of Paypal can be counterbalanced by eBay/Paypal's policies. To have money tied up on 3 auctions when only one is in dispute is crap. And it does seem to me that eBay cares not about the transaction nor the parties, but only about their fees.<br /><br />Maybe the better route would have been to boycott Paypal.<br /><br /><br />Still, eBay is an amazing enterprise. There's nothing close to as good as it is. And it isn't a monopoly... anyone could try to enter that market. But if someone tried, how many folks would abandon eBay for the new site? Few. We sell on eBay 'cause that is where the buyers are, we buy on eBay 'cause that is where we can find 'it'.

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Posted By: <b>Larry</b><p>We have done a lot of business on E bay and we are not happy with recent changes especially allowing feedback to be left only by the buyer.<br /><br />A boycott may only give e bay a small shot and as stated, & they will increase their prices accordingly.<br /><br />We have spoken many times to reps, e bay's trust and safety and it is a stone wall at this point. However, I can understand some of e bay's position as buyers do get held hostage by bad sellers with retaliatory feedback so I told e bay that they can correct this by allowing sellers with 98% feedback and over 100 different or better a right to leave feedback say if they file an unpaid strike fvf and the buyer does not respond but leaves the seller a negative. Our first and only negative came from a disgruntled, piece of manure that never paid us or responded and all we did was ask for our fees back and he left us a negative so we did the same. Fortunately, so did three others so according to e bay, when the new policy takes effect, this guy would be naru'd and feedback would be reversed. I find this extremely doubtful so I think seller's only options:<br /><br />1)call e bay everyday about this treasonous action<br />2) drop paypal once this goes into effect, you are not required to use paypal if you are existing seller in good standing.<br />3) I will not leave any feedback one way or another unless the customer specifically asks, that may aggravate a few buyers but then they could complain to e bay also that sellers now do not care about feedback system. If a buyer nicely requests feedback, I would still leave it once paid.<br />4)I would not take any other seller tools or additional costs to "make my site more efficient' as they are pushing now.<br />5)Use private auctions for better cards(over $1000)since buyers premiums are zero, document this and e mail e bay that these cards are not being offered thru e bay as they occur.<br /><br />This probably will do nothing but it may dent the e bay bottom line if enough sellers know their exposures and costs.<br /><br />Either way, e bay is becoming a nightmare for sellers that depend on it and should be held more accountable for their actions.

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>I'm starting to come around to the fact that the new policy is not a good idea. Not so much that we will get undeserved negs since everyone will be in the same boat and that will just mean that 95% is great, not 99.9%.<br /><br />But what concerns me is the control the buyer has as mentioned above. What do you do if a buyer demands a positive or else he will give you a negative? He may do it anyway. Or the apparent fact that insurance with delivery confirmation is no good if the buyer says it wasn't him or that the card was wrong. Paypal and Ebay always side with the buyer.<br /><br />But the idea of a 1-week boycott is ridiculous. Even the sellers admit they will double up the next week. The bottom line is unaffected.<br /><br />What would work, however, is if the sellers pull Paypal from their payment options. And if the sellers require signature confirmation. I get extremely annoyed by sending a check by mail and having to pay 41 cents for the stamp. And it's even worse to have to travel to the Post Office on a Saturday to pick up my packages because my signature is required.<br /><br />If the buyers are inconvenienced because the sellers are protecting themselves, and Ebay loses the Paypal income, then they will reverse the policy.<br /><br />As a matter of fact, I think I will no longer accept Paypal, except from my best customers. I can just send that payment option to the ones I choose.

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Posted By: <b>brian</b><p>Larry and Eric made good points. I dropped PayPal as a payment option, but if they get desperate enough, Ebay could try and force it down the throat of every seller.

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Posted By: <b>James Gallo</b><p>Well I do ebay full time, that is my whole income. Lately I have been very disgruntled at best.<br /><br />I could sit here and type all day about all the simple problems I have had with ebay and the total lack of support.<br /><br />Here is a recent one for you. My account was hacked and a guy listed 2 computers using my account. I was away so I didn't see that auctions until there was less the 12 hours left. I am a power seller so I have a specific rep. I called him and told him about the auctions several hours before then were to end. He said he would take care of it.<br /><br />That night I see that auctions were not removed, had ended and that one guy had even paid for one of the computers.<br /><br />My power seller guy is great and helps when he can. He had no control over these auctions and passed on the information, well guess what like everything else someone dropped the ball and I along with several buyers could of had a big mess to deal with. The guy that paid was lucky and I just refunded his payment. The other guy I notified before another call into ebay so that I would get the fees back. After my second call the fees were reversed.<br /><br />But my all time favorite ebay story is this. I sold an item for $7500+ to a last minute bidder with 0 feedback. They requested more pictures of the item after the auction ended. I had about 8 pictures of this boxed doll up and there were not additional pictures I could add. I refused the pictures, they refused to pay. Finally we agree to not complete the transaction. <br /><br />3 months later they leave a libel negative feedback. I call my support guy and say WTF. This guy obviously bid just to mess with my auction and has now left me a negative that is libel and a load of crap.<br /><br />After a second phone call my rep tells me the account has been suspended but that is was not a violation that allowed the removal of feedback. At this point I just ran out of breath. If someone had enough problems with the account so that is was suspended why the hell is the feedback still there.<br /><br />It's crap and I sent a written complaint through my rep. I am sure that went really far up that latter..... <br /><br />I now have 9 negs over 10 years with over 3100 unique positives and 4500 total positives. It seems to me that my overall feedback in this new system is going to take a big hit from the 99.7% it is at especially since 4 of the negs were in the last 12 months.<br /><br />If anyone would like other horror stories I could write a book.<br /><br />As for ebay being the only game in town, well it is because it is a corporation and until another corp with similar backing comes around they have us all by the balls.<br /><br />I only leave feedback after I get it. This is generally not a problem as I feel it is on the buyer to say they are happy with the product. After I get feedback I will make a point to leave it. With this system I won't get hit with a random neg after I have left someone a positive. I get a neg and I give one. <br /><br />Just about every neg I have gotten was either a newbie to ebay, someone messing with my auctions or someone that doesn't understand how matters can be resolved before feedback is left.<br /><br />My most recent neg was from a 3 feedback buyer who had a problem with the shipping costs. It turned out to cost about 10 less then I expected. They left a neg without contacting me and got one in return. In the short run it will hurt them a lot more then me. IF they had emailed I would have refunded them and we both would have avoided a neg. <br /><br />Hopefully it is a lesson leaned but I doubt they even understand that they could have acted differently, but oh well.<br /><br />I can live with the fee increase as the is expected, but the increase in fees is insane and they are going to try to force people with lower feedback to use paypal. WTF.<br /><br />As for not taking paypal, I deal with it because it makes getting payments very quick and often this is very important to me. It is a very useful tool but it should not be forced down your throat.<br /><br />I wonder if ebay had anything to do with www.bidpay.com shutting down at the end of last year? I would expect that like any corporation they either bought them out or sued for some dumb ass reason.<br /><br />I would love to not take paypal but I would not be able to do it as I need the quick cash flow.<br /><br />I am interested to see how these 2 paypal disputes go down as I "should" be in the right even as the seller, but have a feeling I will get screwed out of my cash and the items.<br /><br />That's enough of a rant.<br /><br />James G<br /><br />PS this boycott is on a lot of sites. I think it is getting more attention then a lot of you think. Maybe not enough, but it's a good start and everything has to start some where.<br /><br><br>Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: <b>Red</b><p>If Ebay just raised their fees it wouldn't be a big deal. They've done it lots of times before. Who cares! It's just a cost of doing business that you work with and move on. <br /><br />Where Ebay hit a nerve this time is the nonsense with the buyer no longer being able to get hit with a negative or neutral. Most good sellers will go hundreds or thousands of transactions with little need of anything other than positives. Although you seldom ever need a negative or neutral it's nice to know that you have that ability to leave a very well deserved one when all else has failed.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Red - ebay acknowledged that this would stop sellers from leaving valid negatives, but said that in their estimation, the threat of a retaliatory negative (which is not allowed by ebay policy) stopping the buyer from leaving valid negative feedback for the seller, was occurring about 8 times as often as valid negative feedback for a buyer and that's why they made the decision.<br /><br />They certainly understood the issue from the sellers side in this regard, but they felt the overwhelming problem on the buyers side would be fixed as a result. Perhaps they could have come up with a better solution. Certainly, as Dan suggested, when a buyer doesn't apy for an item and they go through the non-payment process, the seller should then be able to leave a neg for the buyer.

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Posted By: <b>Tony Gordon</b><p>I think the strike is an excellent idea. I have been selling on eBay for seven years and am continually smacked in the teeth by eBay. Of course the strike won’t effect eBay’s bottom line but if it sends them a message that sellers are fed up, the strike will have been successful. <br /><br />My main problem with the new policy, which I stated on another thread last week but is apropos here, is the loss of my ability to leave a negative. I need that tool to fend off fraudulent buyers who claim they have not received an item after I packed the item and sent it.<br /><br />The key to the scam is the fraudulent buyer’s positive feedback. Sellers like me will suck up the loss and refund the buyer’s money when the buyer has 100 percent positive feedback.<br /><br />I believe this scam will increase tenfold without the negative feedback to foil the plot. Now to combat the scam I am going to have to refuse all refunds when a buyer claims to have not received an item. The result will be a barrage of negatives and buyers will then skip my auctions.<br /><br />Yes I can insure the packages or use signature confirmation, but these things cost money and effect my bottom line. Also, blocking buyers is not all that effective because it is sooo easy to register multiple times on eBay. <br /><br />While I have enjoyed selling cards to collectors all over the world, I think I will turn my attention locally and set up at more shows. Here in Chicago, we have quite a few good shows with plenty of buyers.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Red</b><p>Ebay pulled that percentage from thin air. If a buyer was truly wronged there would be little hesitation at all to leave the seller a negative and teach him a lesson. Where an idiot buyer might be reluctant to leave a negative are cases where he doesn't understand that the seller really didn’t do anything wrong. Maybe he paid $4.00 for shipping and only $3.72 was on the package. Maybe he’s mad at the Post Office for slow delivery or holding the package at the Post Office. Maybe the buyer paid no shipping and just included a white envelope SASE and told the seller to throw the PSA card in and ship in that. Maybe the seller didn’t take Paypal and a negative will teach him a lesson. These are all situations where the sellers don’t deserve to be given a negative, and it’s great that the possibility of getting a negative in return will make the buyer think before giving an undeserved negative.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Red - While I have in the past negged a few sellers who deserved it as they tried to cheat me (not .25 on postage; rather, a complete misrepresentation of the card for sale), I always got a nasty retaliatory neg, and as a result, have had issues with other sellers not wanting to sell to me. As I strongly believe buyers should know about the bad sellers, I was not intimidated by this, but I'm sure many buyers are and I certainly appreciate ebay making an effort to fix the problem; that said, I'm not sure if there wasn't a better solution.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Paypal is the real monster, and of course Paypal is now eBay. If I weren't so lazy and used to the immediate payment aspect of paypal and the fact people can charge items I sell on plastic through paypal, I'd get rid of them. The last major card I sold on the BST thread was paid through paypal and I had to eat a big chunk in paypal fees. I had forgotten how large that chunk had become!

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>"... the threat of a retaliatory negative (which is not allowed by ebay policy) stopping the buyer from leaving valid negative feedback for the seller, was occurring about 8 times as often as valid negative feedback for a buyer and that's why they made the decision."<br /><br />Ah, a classic of unsupported reasoning by Ebay. If the buyer doesn't leave the feedback how do they know the buyer didn't leave the feedback? They don't. It is pure BS to justify a move that they want to make so they can appear to be "doing something" about fraud without really doing anything at all. What's next, no fluids over 2.5 oz., taking off our shoes before we bid? Who's running the show there, Osama Bid Large?<br /><br />Ebay has transformed the Hobby in a mostly good way. I love being able to shop for cards 24/7/365. I love being able to find "holy grail" cards. Even with the new fees it still makes a lot of sense as a marketplace. The one thing that makes me bristle more than anything, though, is Paypal. I don't take it anymore except from people I know because the rules are too weighted for the buyer. As a buyer, it actually makes me less cautious since I figure I can use a credit card to buy and initiate a chargeback if there is a problem. <br /><br />One issue that I haven't seen addressed w/r/t Paypal is what happens when a seller says "no insurance, you take the risk." Has anyone been involved in a dispute where the listing placed the risk with the buyer if insurance was not paid, and the item was lost or damaged, and if so, what happened?<br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Yes I can insure the packages or use signature confirmation, but these things cost money and effect my bottom line.<br /><br /><br />Can't you just pass the cost of that to the buyer? Make it mandatory. I know I will be.<br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Patrick Helfrick</b><p>I could not agree more with James Gallo. eBay is all about the buyer. In fact, I recently had a PayPal rep tell me that they (eBay/PayPal) can always find more sellers - it is the buyer they have to treat with kid gloves.<br /><br />I have been buying and selling on eBay for over 10 years and I am ready to call it quits. I have 5500+ positives (should be about triple that but only 1 in 3 leaves feedback) and up until last week, only 2 negatives (both were from international buyers who claim to have never received the item). I just had one buyer who bought three (3) cards from me in late November for under $10 and waited until the end of January (over 2 months) to advise the cards were not received. I sent him a scan of the USPS receipt and after being threatened with negative feedback, agreed to refund his payment. The day after agreeing to do so, the buyer left me a negative for each transaction. I also received a negative from a customer in Germany who claimed to never have received his merchandise. He filed a dispute with PayPal and even though I provided proof of shipping, they ruled in his favor since there was no signature required for delivery. I recently sent a replacement for the "lost" item and still received negative feedback. Contacting a rep at eBay, even if you are a Power Seller, is useless. You can't send an email to eBay with an attachment and they will not allow you to fax any documents that support your case to remove feedback. I'm tired of the feedback extortion practiced by buyers on eBay and now we won't be able to leave them feedback? Crazy.<br /><br />Like James, I could write a book about the problems of doing business on eBay. Yes, they are a corportation but even by corporate standards, they suck.<br /><br />Patrick

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>To me the answer is to place the cost of the buyers' protection measures on the buyers, and let them know that you are doing so.<br /><br />I haven't sold a whole lot lately, but sometime in the last year I started requiring both insurance and signature delivery for any item that I expected to sell for over $30 or so for which the buyer used PayPal. I even said that I required insurance specifically because PayPal's generous buyer protection policies made me fully responsible for all shipping up until signed receipt could be proven.<br /><br />A few paid by PayPal w/o insurance because it didn't show up in the standard cost. If I sell in the future I will build it into the cost, explain why it is there, and that if anyone wants to pay via check or MO I will deduct it.<br /><br />PayPal can't complain because this is not an extra fee for using PayPal in the sense that I am trying to get the buyer to pick up the PayPal fees. That's illegal. I identify it as the cost of buyer protection, and price it at insurance cost so it can't be debated as to what it's for.<br /><br />No complaints so far, and as a buyer I wouldn't necessarily complain either. The policies are clearly protective of the buyer, and the allocation of the cost of the protection can be part of the bargain.<br /><br />I will probably add signature confirmation on all &gt;$30 items now, even non-PayPal, and explain that because I can't leave a buyer neg this is to cover my risk of a shady buyer.<br /><br />No problem. Charge for it and make it clear what it is for. The cost of risk has to be in the system somewhere - I can't see how sellers can just keep absorbing it. Let the buyers start complaining about the extra costs - at some point maybe they will get tired of paying more for everything just because ebay and PP won't face up to the fact that a few bad-apple buyers are a genuine problem for sellers.<br /><br />And for what it's worth, I buy more than I sell on ebay, by far.<br /><br />J

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Posted By: <b>Andrew S.</b><p>I just logged into eBay about 5 minutes ago and received this message from a new zero feedback member I've never heard of:<br /><br />"Hey pal, remember when you gave me a strike last fall because I couldn't pay for a card? I'm going to have the last laugh soon enough!" <br /><br />I reported the message to eBay, but even if they close that bogus account, this freak could just open another.<br />It has to be one of 3 buyers because he said last fall and I had to file three deadbeat NPB in the fall and none of them responded. <br />Also noticed on a couple of other forums there are some scumbags vowing to go on a negative feedback rampage for revenge and some just for sh**s and giggles to ruin perfect feedback sellers.

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Posted By: <b>Robert {Bigb13}</b><p><DIV>You know what is BS?&nbsp; &nbsp;When I as a buyer win an item and pay for it right away with paypal and the seller does not leave me feedback until I leave it for him or her first.&nbsp;As soon as I pay which usually is right after the auction is over the seller should leave positive feedback for me. Some times I receive the item and leave my positive for them they still don't leave feedback. Sometimes they never leave it, so maybe I will start leaving negative feedback if I feel that an item is to long in transit or maybe it will be neutral or just maybe not leave anything at all. That should hurt a seller don't you think? I think so since I know I always check their feedback before I bid on one of their auctions and if I see to many negs it does not matter how bad I want the item I will not bid on them. I often wonder how a seller can have a feedback with hundreds or sometimes a thousand negs and still be able to sell on ebay. I don't care how many percent it is hundreds of negs means bad news but still ebay lets them sell. So you guys that say ebay is in favor of the sellers should think twice about that. If a buyer had that many negs they would be thrown off ebay but for the sellers it's ok? I say it's BS. Rob</DIV>

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>Kind of a followup to Robert's comments.<br /><br />Last year I BINed a mid three figure item from an outfit called bronsongalleries. Rec'd the item and left positive feedback. The seller never left feedback.<br /><br />Now to the present. This seller has an item on eBay that I would be interested in bidding on. But you know what? Screw them. I won't.

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Posted By: <b>Robert {Bigb13}</b><p>Stick buy your guns Steve.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Steve,<br /><br />That seems severe. I have listed on ebay over 1400 transactions and have never left feedback once--in fact I tell dealers if they ask don't bother with feedback.<br /><br />Jim

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Posted By: <b>Robert {Bigb13}</b><p><DIV>I had one seller threaten me&nbsp; because I had a computer problem which entailed that I bring it in to be worked on and could not pay for a week. I was using my cell phone for bidding and answering my emails but could not use it for payment through pay pal. So they were mad they told me I should go to the library and use one of their computers to send payment {Right I might put my personal information on a library computer} they must be kidding. But anyway I used a neighbors computer and sent payment and they left me positive feedback so now I am waiting until the 89 days 23hrs and 59 minutes and I will leave them NEGITIVE feedback and they can not do anything about it. LOL who will get the last laugh. Rob&nbsp;</DIV>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- sellers are clearly leaving you feedback- wouldn't it be courteous to reciprocate?<br /><br />I send a friendly reminder out asking a buyer to leave feedback, and usually half do if the message remains polite. And I try to always leave positive feedback the same day I am paid. I think buyers appreciate it, and it gets us off on the right track.<br /><br />I really don't have trouble at all with buyers (one reneger since I began selling) and never received negative from anyone. Maybe everybody needs to work on customer relations a little bit. That's not an ebay issue- that's something between buyer and seller.

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Posted By: <b>Robert {Bigb13}</b><p><DIV>Barry you might be one in a thousand but most sellers wait until the buyer leave them feedback first which is not right. If I pay right away I deserve positive right away. Oh also Jim for you, if I buy from you and you don't <DIV>have the courtesy to leave feedback well I would think that you do not care enough about the buyers&nbsp; and that would be the last time I would buy from you.&nbsp;&nbsp;Rob&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I agree Robert. It's good customer service, and you know what- it's just feedback. It's just a little note saying thanks, and each one takes less than 30 seconds. Not worth making a big deal over it.

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Posted By: <b>Robert {Bigb13}</b><p><DIV>But for the sellers it's their reputation. Rob</DIV>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Yes, it is the seller's reputation, and that is why I make a very small gesture of good will at the start of a transaction. It almost always pays dividends.

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>Robert, the transaction is not over when the buyer pays. It's over when the buyer receives the goods and signifies that he is satisfied. At that point feedback should be left, by either party.<br /><br />The easiest way is for the buyer to just leave it first so the seller knows it has been received and the buyer is happy and the seller can then reciprocate w/o fear of retaliation. It's simpler than the buyer emailing the seller, say he received the goods and is satisfied, ask for feedback, then leave his own. <br /><br />It would be foolish for the seller to leave it first....just look at the dozens of examples why.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Eric- I've left feedback first as a seller for nearly a thousand total transactions. I've never received a single negative, and the majority of the people I deal with leave glowing feedback in return. I must being doing something right.<br /><br />Maybe the positive reinforcement to start the transaction is really a pretty good idea. Some may disagree.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>But Eric, what if the seller sent the buyer a load of crap and then wouldn't make an adjustment or give a refund? What recourse other than eBay or paypal (right!!!)does he have? Isn't the buyer within his rights to give negative feedback? I suggest he is but if the seller hasn't already left feedback you may be assured that a neg will come back in retaliation.<br /><br />If a buyer pays promptly he is entitled to IMMEDIATE feedback. PERIOD!!!

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Posted By: <b>Robert {Bigb13}</b><p><DIV>Spoken as a true seller Eric. If I win an item and pay right away that should make a seller happy enough to leave positive. What more would a seller need to leave positive feedback? You must be kidding that a buyer should leave it first. Rob</DIV>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>The seller has to leave it first. When someone pays, you say "thank you." That's an automatic in my book.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Rob and Barry,<br /><br />I am not a seller. I give dupes to dealer friends to sell.<br /><br />Who really cares if a seller has 4,236 or 4,237 positive feedback or 422 or 423 or 42 or 43. Has never mattered to me.<br /><br />I tell sellers if they ask no feedback please as many times I don't want people to know what I am buying.<br /><br />Jim

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Posted By: <b>Robert {Bigb13}</b><p>It matters a lot if he has 4200 feedback and 42 are negs. And it also matters if he has 42 feedback and 5 are negs. At least to us buyers. Rob

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Posted By: <b>Tony Gordon</b><p>Steve,<br /><br />I sell mostly low-grade pre-war and low-cost post-war vintage from $10 to $25 a pop. For this stuff, the buyer is not willing to take on added costs. Last year after eBay's annual fee increase along with the post office increase, I raised my shipping fee and saw a big drop in sales. I think for higher end items, buyers are willing to pay more in shipping but for my stuff, I just can't get much from the buyer.<br /><br />Robert,<br /><br />I used to leave feedback for buyers right after I shipped the item. It was a great way for me to keep track of items I sent. Then a rash of buyers claimed to have not received items I had shipped. I checked their feedback, all positives, so I sucked up the losses and refunded the money. Then I started getting these no-receipt claims every month and realized it was a scam. The key to the scam is having all positive feedback because sellers won't refund the money if there are negatives. To combat the scam, I started to wait until the buyer left me feedback before reciprocating -- the result -- I have not received any claims of no receipt.<br /><br />I do get some irate emails from buyers who want feedback immediately. What I don't understand is that these buyers seem to make purchases on eBay solely to receive feedback. Why aren't they more interested in adding a card to their collection than receiving feedback? I also collect cards, have been for more than 30 years. When I buy a card on eBay I want it to arrive without damage and in a reasonable time, I could care less about receiving feedback from the seller.<br /><br />As a seller, feedback will no longer help me identify a bad buyer thanks to eBay's new policy, so I don't see the point in leaving it after Feb. 20.<br /> <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- if it's for anonymity then I understand. But can you be totally anonymous on ebay? When you win something your username is visible.