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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>B.C.Daniels</b><p><a href="http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=632036" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=632036</a><br /><br /><br />how will this change our collections?<br /><br />(slabbed folk)<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>How many cards already graded by PSA will now have to be resubmitted? Probably a ton.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Lance</b><p>It will probably cost a lot of people a lot of money to find out their cards were "properly" graded to begin with.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Doug</b><p>Maybe the PSA 8 Wagner will get regraded and 8.5 now...seriously though, I'm sure they will be making a fortune on resubmissions which may have had something to do with the idea.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Brad</b><p>Interesting read, thanks for posting! <br /><br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Paul S</b><p>Barry -- that was my first impression. Also, did anyone notice how much of the impetus for the half-grade -- according to the article -- was based upon filling the price gap between high end cards? The price wagging the grade, not the other way around. IMO, completly dollar driven.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Jim Dale</b><p>Looks like PSA blinked since the competition was kicking it around....tons of money they will rake in on resubmissions.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Mark T</b><p>pretty much useless now, like they were before. I bet it was a move by PSA to get more cards cracked out and submitted again.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>I did not like the following statement:<br /><br />"Last but not least, remember that cards submitted under this program will never be in jeopardy of going down in grade. So, the only risk in submitting cards under this new program would be the cost of the submission since there is no guarantee that the cards will reach the higher, half-point grade. In other words, cards submitted under this service will always be returned to the customer, at minimum, in the same grade they arrived in."<br /><br />Unfortunately, this paragraph speaks volumes. <br /><br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>This is some fine double-speak:<br /><br /><i><b>Keep in mind that a card that reaches a half-point grade is considered an exceptional example within the particular grade.</b> In other words, the half-point does not represent the mid-point between grades. It is a way of distinguishing between average cards within the grade and ones that exhibit premium quality. Furthermore, cards that do not achieve the half-point increase and remain at the whole number grade are not viewed as “low-end” for the grade by PSA experts.</i>
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>What if you resubmit a card hoping to get the extra half grade and it comes back trimmed? You have to assume they have tightened their standards over time.<br /><br />Leon- we have two identical threads running at the same time.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p> Almost single handedly stopped this the previous time PSA tried to get this through. I wonder now, if he'll send anything in for regrading or what his opinion of this matter is. <br /><br /> Regards<br /> Rich
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>B.C.Daniels</b><p>might be re-graded for FREE!<br />that would be fair on PSA's part!<br /><br />8.5 Wagner-heee hee hee<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Sean C</b><p>that's all I can say at this point.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>8.5 is the new 8 for the registry types...
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>Rich K, <br /><br />You missed their "turn a blind eye" policy. <br /><br /><br />"Last but not least, remember that cards submitted under this program will never be in jeopardy of going down in grade. So, the only risk in submitting cards under this new program would be the cost of the submission since there is no guarantee that the cards will reach the higher, half-point grade. In other words, cards submitted under this service will always be returned to the customer, at minimum, in the same grade they arrived in."<br /><br />Seriously, this policy is worse than:<br /><br />1. Schilling your own auctions. <br />2. Ripping Monte Irvin off on his HOF plaque. <br />3. Having only a 99.0% positive feedback on eBay.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Andrew S.</b><p>I just rounded up my entire PSA graded collection and am selling every one of them at auction.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Terry</b><p>It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 's!!
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Jim Dale</b><p>So what does this mean for PSA 10's? I know there are very few vintage PSA 10's but certainly they won't be given a 10.5 grade. So now are PSA 10's in general going to be worth "less" then the PSA 10's of the future? Will they grade PSA 10's like BGS does its BGS 10's?
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Steve Dawson</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />At first glance, I don't think this will have an impact on 10s, since PSA says they won't have a 9.5 grade. Everything below a 9 though, will have the .5 grade.<br /><br /><br />Steve
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Will the new slabs be visually different then the old slabs so you will know if what you're looking at is a new 5 or an old 5?
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>i don't see why this would change psa 10's in any way. this is a good service...but too bad money is the motivation. diluting cards a bit graded under the older system as well. maybe on the bright side, psa can correct some of their faux pas i while they're at it! Doesn't matter much to me as I do not shop there.<br /><br />pete in mn
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Patrick McMenemy</b><p>10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1<br /><br />10, 9.5, 9.0, 8.5, 8.0, 7.5, 7.0, 6.5, 6.0, 5.5, 5.0, 4.5<br />4.0, 3.5, 3.0 2.5, 2.0, 1.5, 1.0, .5<br /><br />10, 9.75, 9.50, 9.25, 9.0, 8.75, 8.50, 8.25, 8.0, 7.75, 7.50, 7.25, 7.0, 6.75, 6.50, 6.25, 6.0, 5.75, 5.50, 5.25, 5.0....etc.<br /><br />Patrick<br /><br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Bill Todd</b><p>...just not here.<br /><br />The coin grading system in current use was originated in the 1800s. Don't remember offhand who it was that came up with it, but he felt that the numbers reflected a rational pricing structure. Grades went from 1 to 70. 60 is uncirculated, and 70 is perfect. An uncirculated coin "should" trade for about 60-70 times the price of a real beater. (At that time, anyway.) Eventually there was the "half grade" of 65. And, of course, then the 62 and 63. And 64 for the coin that "didn't quite make it"...ad nauseam. You just wait. In another 20 years, you'll see PSA grading cards as 7.3s.<br /><br />Bill
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>PSA seems to have thought the implications of this through reasonably well. In the long term I think it will probably be a good thing, as it will increase the inherent accuracy of the system in a meaningful way. In the short term however, there is going to be some pain and confusion, not to mention considerable expense. I predict there are going to be a ton of re-submissions, particularly at the high end.<br /><br />If I have a nice PSA 8 to sell, for example, I will probably feel compelled to try to get a bump up to 8.5, in order to be able to compete with other sellers with high end 8's who have had theirs re-graded as such. (Assuming of course that the card is one where the increase in market value associated with the half grade bump would justify the re-grade expense.)<br /><br />Oh well, at least I won't have to re-submit any of my PSA 9's or 10's. I'm glad they decided not to include 9.5 in the new scale.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Ahh, Eric, there's the rub: you'll probably be 'compelled' to send in your 8s before selling them in order to possibly get a bump up. That's exactly what PSA is depending on.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Patrick McHugh</b><p>Wow! If I was a set registry collector I would have a big knot in my stomach. This has the potential to have a guy in close 5 spots in a set send in his set and then jump to the top with half grade bumps. In turn the others if wanting to keep there ranking would have to follow. Could you imagine the cost if you felt compelled to send in say 10 different 500 card sets. 5000 cards at what 6-10 dollars a card just guessing cost so an extra 30-50k to make sure you keep your cherished ranking. And maybe after all that expense you fall a few notches because your cards did not bump a half grade. I am really happy right now that I am not a set reg guy. To those that are good luck. Also to those of you holding psa 8 graded cards the value has just been cut in half!
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Double-P-Enterprises</b><p>The dumbest move I've seen made in the hobby lately. PSA certainy does not have the interests of collectors at heart in making this move, it's purely financial. For collectors and investors SGC has been crushing PSA. I guess they had to try something. I feel this will come back to bite them hard.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>John Kalafarski</b><p> If SGC made this change, there would be much praise on this board. Oh, you mean SGC does half grades; oh, I guess that means it must be wonderful!
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>A brilliant move financially for PSA, and I think they are so firmly entrenched it will cost them very little in terms of ill will/defections. Product upgrades happen all the time, is it really that different?
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>That they will only raise the grade, and not lower it, tells a tale. If they said the grade could be lowered, fewer people would resubmit. As even PSA loyalists say there are weak and strong 7s, 8s, 5s, etc, an objective grading system would allow for a resubmitted card to be raised or lowered 1/2 point.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>"What if you resubmit a card hoping to get the extra half grade and it comes back trimmed? You have to assume they have tightened their standards over time."<br /><br />Barry, it won't happen. In the PSA article, they write: <br /><br />"Last but not least, remember that cards submitted under this program will never be in jeopardy of going down in grade."<br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>since i just read this now, i guess i haven't yet formulated an opinion...my first reaction is that it will at least produce more accurate grades. it will (or should in theory), properly designate weaker cards and stronger cards... <br /><br />well, i have some VERY strong T206 8's, so maybe they'll get my $$$ afterall to review...it's a bit of a gamble, but would pay-off bigtime if they get the bump...<br /><br /><br />very interesting news.<br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>"Last but not least, remember that cards submitted under this program will never be in jeopardy of going down in grade."<br /><br />Guess this confirms what we all have known, that if PSA has graded it, it is graded either accurately or possibly conservatively and there is no chance the card is altered. That should make some of the high volume holder buyers happy.<br /><br />Edited to add that I agree that it is a brilliant move from a financial standpoint.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Paul Moss</b><p>Calling Jim C<br /><br />Calling Jim C<br /><br />Call for Mr. Jim C
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Greed, plain and simple. The fact that they are unwilling to review the cards de novo makes that clear. I have only a handful of registry sets left in PSA 8 and there is no way I am sending these cards in. However, if I were selling them....how can you not? And then if you don't send in an 8 would you advertise on your listing: "THIS CARD WAS NOT SENT IN TO PSA FOR THE HALF GRADE UPGRADE. SEND IT IN AS IT'S THE STRONGEST 8 ON THE PLANET!"<br /><br />NB: Charlie, will your auctions now say: "PSA 8.5++++++"? Sorry, couldn't resist. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>"it will (or should in theory), properly designate weaker cards and stronger cards..."<br /><br />since they guarantee that no cards will be downgraded, I don't think it will do that at all...
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Paul Moss</b><p>They should have adopted the Richter earthquake scale, ie. 5.4, 7.8, 8.3, etc., then we'd really know how strong the card is for the grade.<br /><br />Brilliant, eh? <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>James Gallo</b><p>So they say as of Feb 1st, the new system will be up and running. Does this mean if you submit cards after that date or if they are graded after that date? I have a 100+ modern cards sitting at PSA and this was the first thing that came to mind. Also pisses me off that I just got back a pile of 1952 Topps that I could use a half grade bump on.<br /><br /><br />This is a great line<br /><br />"A submitter may be willing to accept a PSA grade that is slightly lower than the grade from a competitor, which is very common, so filling out the submission form accurately is crucial."<br /><br /><br />I also find the whole SMR thing to be REALLY funny. They can't get prices even close with what they have and they are going to add additional grade and try to track more prices.<br /><br />It really does become abig joke at some point.<br /><br /><br />James G<br><br>Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Jantz</b><p>I guess if PSA wants to go with this half-grade policy they can. All I know is that it won't affect my collecting either way. <br /><br />that's my $.025 (sorry couldn't resist)<br /><br />Jantz
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>Maybe soon they'll start giving two separate grades, one for the front and one for the back! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br><br> <br /> <br /> <br />-------------------------------------------------<br />All Things T206: <a href="http://www.T206.org" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.T206.org</a><br />eBay Made Easy: <a href="http://www.PreWarAuctions.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.PreWarAuctions.com</a><br />T205.org Coming Soon!
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>"since they guarantee that no cards will be downgraded, I don't think it will do that at all..."<br /><br />matt- i meant when you send in raw cards...this new half grade system should, in theory, properly delegate cards, for better and for worse.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>agreed, but with such a huge chunk of the existent cards already slabbed it is only going to skew the market incorrectly towards higher grades.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Jeff Shepherd</b><p>Now when you resubmit and the card garners a half grade bump - does it keep the old cert. number or is it given a new one? Do they grade in the holder or crack then grade?
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>marty q</b><p> wow!!! purely a money move, if a card can go up a half grade why could it not go down a half??<br /> <br /> well of course it can, but that won't be good buisness for what they are trying to accomplish!!!<br /> <br /> with all of the other area's psa could have improved on (better slabs, better relations, etc etc, add your own) this is what they come up with??<br /><br /> benefit-dealers , auction house's, set registry builders.<br /><br /> losers- collectors, from the high end to the low, if you collect 2,3 and 4 grade you now have to tend with the 2.5,3.5.4.5 grades, that maybe otherwise would have been in a 3 or 4 holder, same for the high end guy's.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Misunderestimated (Brian H.)</b><p>A question - will a card graded by PSA after the advent of the new grading regime be obvious when it does not receive a half-grade? <br /><br />If not a seller could (or, to be, frank WILL certainly) claim that the card was graded prior to the half-grades and advertise/promote the card as sure go up half a grade?<br /><br />Also, I guess a lot of sellers will re-submit for the half-grade and when they don't get it they will sell it and promote the card as "sure to go up" since no one will know that they already tried (and failed).....Ah the possibilities boggle the mind!!!
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>What a deal...<br /><br />How do they make more money... with "point 5's", 'cause guys that love graded cards will send 'em back in for regrading...<br /><br />And after that, more decimalization. It should be good at least twice more, quarters, then tenths.... And Trae has the foresight to envision back grading... woa!!!! only thing left after that would be each of the corners (not fair to Colgans collectors), or grading the edges. The mind and the wallet numb at the thought of it all.<br /><br />How long will the slab folks follow along, paying for this?<br /><br />A bunch of you guys are right up there above. Time to sell 'em. Or time to bust 'em out and forget about slabbing. Or time to resubmit cards and send those guys even more money. <br /><br />It all reminds me of Tulipmania and Star Bellied Sneetches.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i'm confused...for years people have been saying that PSA should have half-grades (like SGC), so that grading would be more accurate...now they finally announce it, and everyone is bashing them...i don't get it?<br /><br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>The $64,000 question to me is what is PSA's position if a card is resubmitted and it is discovered to be altered? They have not addressed that (at least not directly). <br /><br />If their policy will be to return the card in the original graded slab, then will someone please explain to me how that is not fraud. Here you would have the largest card authentication service KNOWINGLY RETURNING TO CIRCULATION a card opined by it to be unaltered THAT THEY NOW KNOW IS ALTERED. Where is the FBI when you need them?!<br /><br />If their policy will be to return such cards in altered slabs, then the first question I would ask anybody offering to sell me a PSA whole-grade card is whether it was resubmitted for the half-grade increase. If the answer is no, then I would think the market value of the card would plummet because that would signify the card owner most likely has serious concerns the card is altered. Why else would he not have resubmitted it if there was no risk of the card being numerically downgraded? <br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Jerry Rucker</b><p>And the Hits just keep on Coming
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Misunderestimated (Brian H.)</b><p> I'm in favor of what they are doing... <br /><br />But I admit that the first image I had was all of those heavy packages insured to the hilt (as required!!) from the Registry Kings trying to beat each other and spending $50+ per card to regrade cards in their sets.<br /><br />Big time high grade collectors who only buy graded cards and never even use PSA themselves (except the registry) will spend $1000s in grading now!<br /><br /><br /><br />I do hope that they do away with the qualifiers though.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Mark Holt</b><p>I am one of the Registry particpants often ripped on this board. I have to say this pisses me off in a big way. It clearly is caused by:<br />1. CU's horrible financial results last quarter.<br />2. Their raw card submissions must be in a significant decline.<br />3. They decided idiots like me who have been their best customers (Registry participants) will offset the decline in raw submissions by sending in a good portion of the millions of slabs already graded hoping they will get a 'bump.'<br /><br />If ever there was a time for SGC to upgrade the way their Registry works this would be it. If they made the 'look and feel' of their Registry match PSA's (links to pop reports, ease of viewing scans, HOF sets in all sports etc) and did a crossover special I'm guessing they would have a couple record months.<br /><br />The next step you'll see from PSA is black slab inserts, probably early next year once they've got enough suckers to pay for half grade bumps. Three or four grading fees per card, yeah that's the ticket.<br /><br />I won't start another PSA registry set and will have to think about ever doing business with them even on my existing uncompleted sets. What a *(&T^*(^%^.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>"The $64,000 question to me is what is PSA's position if a card is resubmitted and it is discovered to be altered? They have not addressed that (at least not directly). "<br /><br />Their quote sounds very direct to me. "Last but not least, remember that cards submitted under this program will never be in jeopardy of going down in grade." <br /><br /><br />"If their policy will be to return the card in the original graded slab, then will someone please explain to me how that is not fraud. " <br /><br />I'm not a lawyer, I can't explain it. Sounds like you have a point here. <br /><br />"Here you would have the largest card authentication service KNOWINGLY RETURNING TO CIRCULATION a card opined by it to be unaltered THAT THEY NOW KNOW IS ALTERED. Where is the FBI when you need them?!"<br /><br />Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I'd imagine it would be next to impossible to prove without a doubt that they knowingly returned an altered card. <br /><br />"If their policy will be to return such cards in altered slabs, then the first question I would ask anybody offering to sell me a PSA whole-grade card is whether it was resubmitted for the half-grade increase. If the answer is no, then I would think the market value of the card would plummet because that would signify the card owner most likely has serious concerns the card is altered. Why else would he not have resubmitted it if there was no risk of the card being numerically downgraded? "<br /><br />How about these reasonable answers:<br /><br />- I didn't want to spend a month waiting for the card to come back before selling it.<br />- I think its a solid 8 and graded fairly, I don't want to waste $60 + another $20 in shipping. <br />- I have 5,000 cards in my inventory. I'm not giving PSA $100,000 to regrade the cards I already spent $100,000 on grading. <br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>I just got some cards back from SGC which were in PSA holders and received some bumps. I felt the cards were sorely undergraded by PSA (Obaks) and SGC agreed, one card went from a PSA 2 to an SGC 70. Their cross-over special helped get some cards in to slabs which had grades which were realistic. (Unfortunately they still continue to hammer E94s but I guess you can't have everything, sigh)
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>David R</b><p>It seems to me this could be a great opportunity for SGC to pick up some of those PSA registry set collectors. Before this, there was little chance of convincing someone to cross-over their PSA registry set because of the substantial cost involved. They were pretty well entrenched with PSA. Now, if the PSA registry set collectors are going to have to bear the substantial cost of resubmitting all their cards (or risk losing their ranking), there is at least an opportunity to convince them to spend that money crossing the cards over to SGC instead. If I had a substantial PSA registry set that I paid thousands of dollars to grade, I would be pretty upset with this half grade system and might just defect. <br /><br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>XanaduNow</b><p>If SGC cleans up the navigation and format on their registry and makes it a little more competitive I would do a 100% crossover on my collection. I could think of no reason not to.<br /><br />Here's hoping.<br /><br />Arthur
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Psa never said that they would return a card they now found to be altered. They have always stabbed the collector in the back when situations like that arose. What makes anyone think they would just send it back to them now? They said that they would not downgrade a card, not that they would send back cards they also deem to be counterfiet and altered after review.<br /><br />I'm so glad that yesterday i decided to get out of PSA graded cards, I listed a bunch of nice high end for the grade 8's. No I am not going to send anything for review.<br /><br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br />edited to add: To the poster that spoke about the coin scale. It is the Sheldon scale. It was devised for Large cents and the thinking was what the other poster mentioned. 1 thru 70 with a 70 being worth 70x the value of a 1 or was 70x rarer then a 1.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Jerry Hrechka</b><p> I've been leaning toward switching to SGC for some time now. SGC's Non-Sports grading special of $5.00 was very tempting. If I have to resubmit cards I may as well spend less and get them into better looking holders. I happen to own one HOW card in both PSA & SGC holders - thought i would post them just for the fun of it:<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1200551612.JPG"> <br /> You can see the difference. I'm fed up with the sloppy manner in which PSA holders the cards. By tomorrow I'll have the 2nd. HOW set on the SGC Registry, starting with the card shown above. I'll keep my PSA set Registries up and let everyone know how the switchover goes.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Does this mean new label PSA whole number grades will be deemed suspect, as PSA would never lower the grade .5 upon resubmission? If a resubmitted 7 was deemed a 7.5, it will get the .5 bump. If the 7 was deemed a 6.5 it would stay 7. Will the mantra become "Play it safe and assume all new label PSA 7s are 6.5" <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Many collectors will prefer the .5 grade as they know how it got that grade. Whether first submission or resubmission, the graders felt it was a .5 grade card. With a .0 grade, these same collectors won't be altogether certain how it got that grade. A PSA 6 could be a "real 6," but it might be "one of those resubmission bastard grandfather clauses." <br /><br />Down the road collectors may say to each other, "If it looks soft don't take it out of the holder, because then PSA grades it for real."
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Jerry Hrechka</b><p> Some PSA6's are vastly overgraded. This particular card has a pinhole in the border near the bottom left hand corner. Any idea what SGC grade it would get?<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1200628155.JPG"> <br /><br />edited scan size
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Jerry <br /><br />I would think they grade a card with a hole in it a POOR 10. My advice keep that one in the Psa holder.<br /><br /><br />Steve
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Jerry Hrechka</b><p> Steve The card is what it is (Nice looking card with a major defect). I could never ethically sell it as a 6. Actually I have very little money in the card. I bought it raw for $1.00 and sent it to PSA under a $5.00 special, expecting a 1 or 2. I was flabergasted when it came back a 6.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>Actually I think the intent issue is easier to prove IF the policy is to return slabbed altered cards in the original slabs. Such a policy in effect says they don't care whether collectors continue to be defrauded by their re-authentication of altered cards, which to me makes it a much smaller step to establishing the necessary intent that they knew. For example, if someone is trying to persuade law enforcement personnel that he truly forgot to file his taxes this year and it was not an intentional evasion of his obligation to pay taxes, who would you be more likely to believe -- a guy who has published six articles that the tax code violates a person's constitutional rights or a guy who continually trumps the need for the IRS to hire more auditors to catch tax cheats. BTW I should add that in a civil matter such as we are dealing with with PSA, actual intent I do not think is what matters. The necessary intent could be imputed to them under the reasonable person standard --- should a reasonable person have known the card was altered? And I don't think any prospective jury/trier of fact would be too sympathetic to them because their policy so brazenly thumbs their nose to collectors concerned about slabbed altered cards.<br /><br />If, though, the policy is to take slabbed altered cards out of circulation, at least then they could make a good faith argument that consistent with this policy they were looking to take slabbed altered cards out of circulation and simply missed (again) the alteration. <br /><br />As to why a collector reasonably would not want to resubmit his cards for reasons other than concern they were altered, sure, I agree, such arguments could be made. The question though is will prospective buyers believe them. It seems to me that for at least the valuable highly-graded cards (e.g. an 8 HOFer), given that the card owner could be enriched by literally thousands of dollars by a half-grade bump up, prospective buyers might be a bit skeptical of explanations citing resubmission cost, waiting time, belief the current grade accurately portrays the card's condition.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>The idea that the grade of the card you submit can not be lower makes absolutely no sense at all.<br /><br />By definition, if you send a graded card back to them they have to reassess it. They don't just give you the half grade by request, you have to earn it. So what if they see that a card is a little weaker than originally thought? Why can't a 7 become a 6.5, or even a 6? The reason is everyone would be too afraid to resubmit if there was a chance their card would lose some points.<br /><br />So this isn't really a reevaluation of a card at all; what it really is is: "if you resubmit your card and pay the fee again, we will reward you by bumping up a percentage of them." Because there is no way to lose, as all you can do is gain.<br /><br />Is that a system?
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>Since we are dealing with an unregulated industry, we should all say this:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyu7nN3kBnw" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyu7nN3kBnw</a>
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Paul Moss</b><p>"Steve The card is what it is (Nice looking card with a major defect). I could never ethically sell it as a 6. Actually I have very little money in the card. I bought it raw for $1.00 and sent it to PSA under a $5.00 special, expecting a 1 or 2. I was flabergasted when it came back a 6."<br /><br /><br />Steve, don't worry. I've had what should have been a 6 come back as a 2. Harmony and balance in the universe is maintained.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>MVSNYC - "i'm confused...for years people have been saying that PSA should have half-grades (like SGC), so that grading would be more accurate...now they finally announce it, and everyone is bashing them...i don't get it?"<br /><br />The issue is not that PSA has implemented half-grades; the issue is the policy of guaranteeing equals or greater than grading on resubmission. If they had implemented half grades and said upon resubmission we will re-evaluate the card; your 7 may end up as a 6.5, stay a 7, a 7.5 or get an 'A' most of us would applaud the change. The policy of "equals or greater than" was driven by greed and is bad for the hobby since it will incorrectly shift the sum of PSA graded cards to being graded on average higher then they are now.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>The best part about this is that maybe, finally, those who throw thousands at low pop commons will recognize that the pop numbers are not static and there are any number of reasons unpredictable in the future, to wit, the life of the collection, that will significantly impact the population reporting. <br /><br />Population reports are decent measures of relative scarcity between cards and also grades of an individual card. To pay serious money for a current representation of population fails to acknowledge the future discovery of cards and, as we see here, future changes in how that information will be calculated and recorded. <br /><br />I echo the sentiments that this is yet another opportunity for SGC to strengthen its market share, which has always had its foundation in being an alternative to PSA. I, too, hope that SGC can finally create a functioning web-based registry -- one that does not require 5 minutes per card image upload or deletion. I never edit my SGC registry anymore because I don't have an entire weekend to burn. <br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!<br /><br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>"The idea that the grade of the card you submit can not be lower makes absolutely no sense at all."<br /><br />Thats how a cross works. You can tell them a minimum grade you will accept (up to the grade it is in) or 'do not crack'.<br /><br />Why not the same on a reevaluation?<br /><br />Do not crack if you feel it is lower.<br /><br />Its not gambling... its asking for another opinion.<br /><br />I feel if PSA or any other grader wants to lower the grade in one of my cards... they need to buy it from me first. Chances are I spent the '5' money to get the '5' based on the opinion that it was a '5'.<br /><br /><br />BTW - I am not sure of their policy... but I believe if you send the card in for reevaluation, you pay a fee whether or not it gets reslabbed. If so, it wouldn't be pay-per-bump.<br /><br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>matt i do see your point, thank you for clarifying...<br /><br />MS
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>SGC does not have these half grades:<br /> <br />2.5<br />3.5<br />4.5<br />6.5<br />(9.5 - but neither will PSA)<br /><br /><br />do they add them now?
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Dan Kravitz</b><p>Barry- <br />"By definition, if you send a graded card back to them they have to reassess it. They don't just give you the half grade by request, you have to earn it. So what if they see that a card is a little weaker than originally thought? Why can't a 7 become a 6.5, or even a 6? The reason is everyone would be too afraid to resubmit if there was a chance their card would lose some points."<br /><br />Barry, you can ask to have your card re-graded and not remove the card unless they can put it in a higher holder. I have done that a couple times myself.<br /><br />I asked PSA to look at a few SGC cards at the last show in Chicago, and they didn't touch the ones that they couldn't upgrade. The ones they could, they popped out and slabed PSA. <br /><br />PSA has been berry barry good to me. Buy SGC sell PSA! DK
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Jimmy</b><p>It’s all about keeping interest in the hobby for years to come, and making more money. Personally I like a straight grade, only because it's what I have used for so long and what I have collected. There is nothing wrong with half grades as I do it for ungraded cards when I sell them. It's just what has kept these companies separated for so long. When the other companies such as SGC and GAI started grading, they were able to keep a good collector base between PSA and them. There is a possibility both PSA and SGC might benefit in the long run. I am sure PSA will keep many of there core collectors and dealers that will resubmit some of the cards, and SGC will get more customers from people that may want to make a change. This also gives dealers and collectors more options when buying and selling. I am not sure I like the change, as I always had problems selling SGC half grades for some cards, but this should keep things interesting and something to talk about in the next few years.<br /><br />Jimmy<br />
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dan and Joe- that makes more sense. I forgot you can ask them not to reholder unless you get a minimum grade. But it still doesn't address Corey's point: what if upon reinspection PSA notices that a card with a grade is in fact altered, and they made a mistake the first time around? What is their legal and ethical obligation?<br /><br />And Dan- I'm not sure I agree with your buy SGC, sell PSA formula. I think they are now equal in the marketplace, save the set registry cards.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>What a crock this PSA half grade is.<br />But they gave me an idea, now as an autograph authenticator I am going to reexamine all the autograph items I have previously examined (at another fee, of course) and I will change my opinion on my prior negative reports, as long as enough people send me money to do it. (Kidding of course),,, <br />Sound good to everyone??<br />No wonder PSA gets a D grade (only one grade higher than the lowest possible grade) from the Better Business Bureau. <br />--<br /><br />I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p><i>I never edit my SGC registry anymore because I don't have an entire weekend to burn.</i><br /><br />For what it's worth, I added 10 images to one of my sets on SGC's registry just yesterday, and it took less than 10 minutes (not counting the time it took to scan the cards). Plus, editing a registry doesn't require that one uploads images. I see a lot of sets on the registry without images of the cards.<br /><br />I supposed it could take an entire weekend to edit a set if you're a really slow typer.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>" But it still doesn't address Corey's point: what if upon reinspection PSA notices that a card with a grade is in fact altered, and they made a mistake the first time around? What is their legal and ethical obligation?"<br /><br /><br />I think what they do right now (both companies) is look to buy that card and get it off the market and out of the slab.<br /><br />I don't see why that policy should change.<br /><br /><br />If they made a big mistake in grading the first time around... they should look to fix it by purchasing the card at the value of the mistaken grade.<br /><br />People make purchase decisions and valuation decisions based on those numbers on the flip - based on a grading company opinion. They (grading companies) need to stand behind that number and take it on the chin themselves when they make a mistake. Not make it the expense of the card holder. Like I said... I believe they stand behind their product in that fashion right now.<br /><br /><br />edited for clarity.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I know half grades are a big deal to some, especially registry folks. Personally I collect cards and not plastic so I don't care....Good move by PSA to get people to send them more money. best regards
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>If PSA stands behind their product to that degree then fine. Let's see how many of these cards they buy back. I guess we'll never know.
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The long awaited PSA half grade!
Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Jerry<br /><br />I was just kidding<br /><br /><br />Paul <br /><br />I too have a few cards that way.<br /><br /><br /><br />I think it sucks.<br /><br /><br /><br />Steve
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