T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Richard L.</b><p>Anyone else wondering what the winning bid would have been if the auction would have run it's course. If you check the bid history, there was a bid for 8k. In the bidders question section, seller says auction will NOT be ended early. Guess fasteddy had a change of heart.<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/WALTER-JOHNSON-T-206-AUTOGRAPHED-PSA-DNA-1_W0QQitemZ170179209433" target="_new">http://cgi.ebay.com/WALTER-JOHNSON-T-206-AUTOGRAPHED-PSA-DNA-1_W0QQitemZ170179209433</a> <br /><br /><br />edited to make link shorter....

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>This seller has been very bizarre.<br /><br />He has ended his auctions a few times and then restarts them.<br /><br />He also adds pictures that have nothing to do with the item he is selling to each listing.<br /><br />But that was one cool card!

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>double-p-enterprises</b><p>Simple, the guy is a liar. He/she also will not answer any questions about their items and in my opinion, does not own them

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>double-p why would the seller be lying? Are they trying to scam someone? If so, why wouldn't they accept an offer to end the listing and take their money and run? I know they have received many private offes for the card and rejected them all.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>On Dec-19-07 at 06:06:53 PST, seller added the following information:<br /><br />THE AUCTION WII "NOT END EARLY" i HAVE HAD SIZEABLE OFFERS BUT EVERYONE WILL HAVE A SHOT AT THE "TRAIN"<br /><br />------------------------------<br /><br />Ummmm......?

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>he ended all his listings at least once before and then relisted them the same day - I don't know if that's his bizarre way of attracting attention or what.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>"LOCATED AT ITS NEW HOME: WEB SITE -- WWW. T-206COLLECTOR.COM"<br /><br />See edit:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.t-206collector.com/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t-206collector.com/</a><br /><br /><br /> <br />

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Doug</b><p>It says the auction "WII" not end early. Perhaps he meant he wouldn't end it early for anything other than an Nintendo Wii... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Doug - clearly he meant nothing short of world war 2 would stop the auction.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>On Dec-22-07 at 20:52:44 PST, seller added the following information:<br /><br /> THE T-206 WALTER JOHNSON WILL BE NOW BE LOCATED AT ITS NEW HOME: WEB SITE -- WWW. T-206COLLECTOR.COM<br /><br /><br />- Based on what he added before ending the auction...looks like Paul may be able to shed some light if he is willing as to what went on here. Its on his website now...does he now own the card? I dont know.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>congrats to Paul, but kind of sucks for the rest of us - the seller promised me via email that no offer I could make would have him end the listing early.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Well it's a good thing everyone got their "Shot at The Train".

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Turner Engle</b><p>Hope the seller tapes the end of the box on this card!

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Doug</b><p>There's a post on the t206collector.com website that says <br /><br />"Last night, I completed negotiations with a very generous, old school collector -- a huge admirer of the "Train" -- who was, in the end, most concerned with a proper forum for displaying his prized baseball card: a signed T206 card of Hall of Fame pitcher Walter Johnson."<br /><br />I take it that answers the question of what happened.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Joe Drouillard</b><p>I visited Paul's site earlier this evening. Sure sounds like he got it. In any case I hope so, no one will treat the card with more respect.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Looks like Paul owes his wife an extra Christmas gift this year.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>I spoke with the seller earlier and Paul did get it. Congrats Paul! I had a $6k snipe in so I wonder if anything was left on the table?

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>When I saw this listing, I shared my signed T206 collection with the seller. I showed him my website and described how important it was for me to add this card to my collection. That set off a very long and interesting e-mail conversation that took us through the entire week. <br /><br />In the end, he was very interested in giving the Johnson a good home and also having a place that he could go visit it at any time. He is a very old school collector with quite a collection that he is only just starting to part with. I am intrigued to see what else he has to offer and also to develop my relationship with him. Putting aside his promises not to end the auction early, he is a very stand up guy and really a gentleman. <br /><br />When I get the Johnson home, hopefully sometime later this week, I will be posting additional scans and plan to have a webpage or two devoted to the card and Walter Johnson generally. That was all part of the deal.<br /><br />With respect to price, the seller and I agreed to keep that between ourselves. Suffice to say, this was not a bargain and a $6,000 snipe or $8,000 bid would not have gotten it done. This was my second most expensive purchase of all time by a long shot (trailing only my Eddie Plank), caused me to sell virtually all of my remaining unsigned T206 cards to help subsidize the cost and will shut me down from further purchases for at least the foreseeable future. <br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Paul, good for you, it's a great(est) addition. I also appreciate that you informed the $6000 and $8000 bidders that they wouldn't have won the card anyway had the auction run it's course; these bidders would have not slept tonight otherwise. Congrats!

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Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>I know it is in a PSA/DNA holder and that is the bottom line, but I do not like the looks of that signature. Some of the telltale marks of a good Johnson are missing and it looks very deliberate. I am not an authenticator, but as someone who has owned several authentic Walter Johnson signatures and am familiar with them as an autograph collector, I would have laughed at that signature had it not already been authenticated.

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Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p><i>Putting aside his promises not to end the auction early, he is a very stand up guy and really a gentleman.</i><br /><br />&lt;Laughing out loud&gt; <br />

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>....is definitely a risky venture. In the end, unless you saw the person sign it you are taking a leap of faith. The card was apparently graded during the Spence/Grad era and, notwithstanding some of the dirt flung towards Spence lately for a poor Sal Bando decision, he is the guy I trust most with my vintage signatures. <br /><br />Ultimately, if you are going to collect deadball era signatures on tobacco and caramel cards there will always be some measure of lingering doubt. But if you have a chance to acquire Walter Johnson on a T206 card, and one of the most, if not the most, respected authenticators in the hobby says its real, that is a chance I have to take. Frankly, it comes with the territory. And, in the end, it's only money. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Rob, fair point. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> But considering how much Paul wanted this card, had the seller been Jeffrey Dahmer Paul would have still said, "putting aside the seller's penchant for eating strangers, he is a really stand up guy." <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <br /><br />If it had been a signed Hal Chase T206 I would have been saying the same thing....

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...about that Jeff. <br /><br />But the reason I wrote that is because he chose to share the card with someone (me) who will absolutely cherish it and he knows that and that was what moved him most to part with it. Obviously there was a financial consideration, too. <br /><br />But in the end, it is true, I am totally and completely biased. <br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />

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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Paul,<br /><br />While I respect your passion about signed T206 cards, I think myself and others will question you going to the seller and essentially asking him to break a promise he made. I understand you will cherish the card, but just because you have a website doesn't mean it will mean more to you than any other signed T206 collector (which there are a few)<br /><br />James

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>For the record, I don't question Paul at all for doing what he thought necessary to get the card. It was the seller's decision to place a higher value on a sum of money than on his word. That's not Paul's fault.<br /><br />But to praise the seller as being a stand-up guy ...

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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>You know what they say, money talks B.S. walks.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...holier than thou. If that's the way I came across, then I apologize. <br /><br />However, I hardly think that asking a seller to end an auction early, even when he represents that he won't, is a bad idea. I have personally lost out on the ability to bid in too many auctions to lose out to an enterprising would-be bidder who would undercut me in this particular auction. For me, it was too important to risk losing at just about any reasonable price point that I could anticipate. <br /><br />While getting more deeply into the personal discussions I had with the seller would, no doubt, help address some of the concerns raised here, it really is none of anybody's business. And so I'll keep the personal details to myself.<br /><br />When cards show up on ebay, there are no guarantees that they're going to make it to closing. No matter what the seller says. When those cards are once in a lifetime cards, you owe it to yourself to make the best run at it that you can. Otherwise, you may just miss it. And with this card, I was not prepared to miss it. Even at the risk of coming across a bit salty. <br /><br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>I don't think asking to end a listing early is in poor form either; however, when the seller has already denied several people that request and made that statement publicly in the listing, it's a different animal. <br /><br />I think must of us are just sour grapes (myself included) because the card is so cool.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>great card, neat story...looking forward to seeing the pages you build around it!<br /><br />Did this guy have any interesting tobacco-era Cubbie items he might part with for a guy who cherishes his team?! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />

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Posted By: <b>Adam</b><p>Congratulations to Paul, I think it's wonderful this card will now be with him.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Adam

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...But he didn't tell me about any Cubbies stuff. He's been collecting for years and has just started divesting himself of some pretty neat items.<br /><br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>i don't think anyone would've gone 12k+ for the card so either way the same person would've had it in the end.<br /><br />...and a shrine for the card? lol the seller's a weird dude.

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Posted By: <b>Glen Turner</b><p>....like I have always said get your card (signed or unsigned) in a PSA/DNA holder or a PSA 9 or 10 holder and it definitely increases its value whether or not it is an authentic signature or the card is graded correctly or not.<br />I have had several experiences with PSA/DNA authenticating autographs. Here is two of my favorite stories.<br />In 1965 at the Continental Hotel in Houston, Texas, I personally watched Mr. Clemente sign 3 cards for me. Well, I decided to send them to PSA for authenticating and guess what? Only one of the THREE cards got authenticated.<br />In the early 1960s I sent a 1960 and a 1961 Fleer Baseball Greats cards to Paul Waner.<br />I received them both back signed in the same ink and the same envelope from Mr. Waner. I sent them to PSA and they authenticated one of the TWO cards.<br />I have always said no matter whether they authenticate your signature or question your signature's authenticity, PSA has YOUR money in the bank. Same goes with graded cards.<br />Whether your card is graded correctly or under or overgraded PSA has YOUR money in the bank.<br />I am not saying they don't try to do their BEST, I am just saying bottom line is that they still have YOUR money in the bank.<br />Just my own experiences and my opinion.<br />

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>"I don't think asking to end a listing early is in poor form either; when the seller has already denied several people that request and made that statement publicly in the listing, it's a different animal"<br /><br />Yes, he said he wouldnt end it, but he certainly didnt deny anyone the chance to make an offer. I do agree that everyone bitching about this would have done the same thing in a heartbeat and it amounts to nothing but sour grapes.<br /><br />Paul, great card. Enjoy it!

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Posted By: <b>Richard Simon</b><p>For the information of all -<br /><br />The Better Business Bureau of Southern California has given PSA-DNA a rating of D. The only worse grade they give is an F. At one time in the past they had an F. They also had a B at one point in time.<br />The BBB states that a D means "We have enough concerns about this company that we recommend caution in doing business with them". <br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>John</b><p>"i don't think anyone would've gone 12k+ for the card so either way the same person would've had it in the end."<br /><br />I wouldn't be so sure about that Quan....<br /><br />Besides we could have easily found out if the above statement was true, had the auction been allowed finish I guess we would have found out who wanted it and was willing to pay for it.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Brett</b><p>Signed pre war cards are pretty neat and i often wonder what year the players signed some of these. It would be cool if someone had a signed one during the years that the cards were actually made or sometime during their playing days. I'd love to own a signed e98 Mathewson or a signed e94 Wagner <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Does anyone have a list of known signed caramel t206 era cards ???

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Posted By: <b>Adam</b><p>Brett's question made me think of 2 questions:<br /><br />(1) Based on the autographed T206s that people on the Board either own or remember seeing in an auction etc. at one point in time, could one compile a list of all autographed T206s that are known to exist? (That may be a cool additional thing for your website Paul);<br /><br />(2) Did anyone know that an authographed Walter Johnson T206 card even existed before that eBay auction?

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Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>Brett - I think signed caramel cards are much more scarce than signed tobacco cards. I know Paul has an E95 Doyle. I remember a few years back, someone owned an E95 signed Carrigan although I have no idea what has happened to it. I also have an E96 signed Mack. I'm not sure of any other 1910s era signed caramel cards although I'm sure some other float around.

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Posted By: <b>Glen Turner</b><p>Read RHYS, RICHARD SIMON and my other post.<br />Just because it is in a PSA holder does not mean there is not room for error.<br />The only thing it means is an easier sell and more dollars for the seller.<br />Again just my opinion.

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>If the signature is real then thats a totally awesome piece! <br /><br />It would have been interesting to see how the auction would have ended but at least two collectors got together and had a nice old school baseball card discussion. I know this may sound sappy but sometimes it's just not the money. It's knowing that you've sold something to someone that really will enjoy/appreciate the card.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>nothing personal Paul, i'm just not a huge fan of what happened here...i just think it should have stayed its course and finished properly...the winner should have to fight for it all the way til the end (especially a big-ticket item)...there could have been several people watching it, who had ridiculously high snipes in place...my guess is that somewhere, someone (or maybe several people) are NOT happy.<br /><br />oh well...we'll never know.

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Once there are legitimate bids on an item I am pretty much against asking to end the item. I will admit I have have asked people to end items (or preferably add a Buy It Now) on ebay before (as many people have) but I have never done so once a legitimate bid has been placed, just doesn't seem right to me. This case was definately a little wierd how everything played out. It does seem unusual that if the individual that eventually got it was so sure he would have topped all bids, why not just bid on the thing and do it the old fashioned way.<br /><br />All that being said, add me to the list of those skeptical of this pieces authenticity. It would be nice if there was some actual provenance to go along with it. Most signed tobacco cards were signed MUCH later (late 60's & early 70's) than the time of issue, and many are players featured in "The Glory of their Times", which sparked interest in them. Not to mention the fact that the autograph just doesn't seem to be correct when compared with the many exemplars I have personally handled/seen.<br />-Rhett

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Posted By: <b>Dan Kravitz</b><p> <br /> I was talking to an "old time" dealer yesterday about shows and long time dealers/collectors he knows. This guy would travel and set up in the 80's and 90's at almost every show. The cards he spoke about would be the cornerstone of any collection; full run of Rose Co. PC's, Mino Cobb, T208's, Garters, YumYum's etc. <br /><br />Anyway... Suffice it to say, he has seen a ton of cards. One thing stuck with me; with all of the rare and scarce issues he would see, he rarely saw mint t-206's and never saw signed dead ball era cards in general. He believes most signed cards were forged in the 90's and most grading companies have no idea what they are looking for. I agree with the latter. <br /><br />I have no idea about signatures from the 1900's (mainly cause I don't collect them), but I would be cautious about any signed card, even if it's authenticated. <br /><br />It seems that most if not all of us have asked sellers to end auctions early. If you are upset with the way it went down, the seller should take the brunt of your anger. The reason most of us know that he wouldn't end the auction early is that we asked him to do just that. <br /><br />Have a happy, healthy, and prosperous new year !!

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...I wouldn't have been outbid. On ebay, unlike most other auction formats, which give you a chance to extend the time of the auction in extended bidding, you never know what snipes are lurking in the dark. Hence my interest in ending the auction early. We'll never know if someone else was coming in higher than what I paid--but what I paid was higher than the prices discussed above.<br /><br />My website does attempt to establish all known T206 cards signed by players. I have heard stories about Cicotte and Young, in addition to all those mentioned in my Signed T206 article on my site--but I've never had visual confirmation of those cards or independent proof of their authentication. But I sure didn't know about this Johnson before this listing, and I am counting on there being many others out there.<br /><br />With respect to Caramel cards, I have also seen a George McBride signed E-card -- I forget the set name, but it is the one where the players all look the same except for Plank and a few others. That's why I passed on it.<br /><br />In the end, I can totally appreciate why there are unhappy collectors out there. But when it comes to signed T206 cards that are not on in my collection, I will make very aggressive pushes to get them. It is just about all I collect anymore.<br /><br />I have a few more thoughts about authenticity, but I'll leave those for another thread or my blog. But I think I tackled most of what I want to say on that score already. The only thing I will add now is that prior to bidding, I searched numerous authentic examples of Johnson's signature and found several that were dead on with this one. <br /><br />In any event, Merry Christmas Eve!<br /><br /><br /><br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>The way I see it there are only two reasons to end and auction early.<br /><br />#1.) To take advantage of a seller who doesn’t know better and get a card well below market value etc.<br /><br />#2.) Or the fear and knowledge of being outbid because you know the item in question stands a strong chance of soaring past your budget, if an offline attempt isn’t made.<br /><br />“I never said...I wouldn't have been outbid. On ebay, unlike most other auction formats, which give you a chance to extend the time of the auction in extended bidding, you never know what snipes are lurking in the dark. Hence my interest in ending the auction early. <br /><br />I have a rule of thumb when it comes to this I think even Mike and I discussed this over drinks not too long ago. Place your max bid the most your willing to spend on the item if it holds it was yours all along, if not I guess someone wanted it that much more. <br /><br />“We'll never know if someone else was coming in higher than what I paid--but what I paid was higher than the prices discussed above.”<br /><br />Not now we won’t, that kind of goes without saying. This is why all sellers should list these kinds of items with auction houses then other collectors have to pay and bid with the rest of us, then the items go to the highest bidder…novel idea huh?<br /><br />I guess all is fair in love and war and now baseball cards. Just not a huge fan of the way this went down, not all Paul’s fault either. As for all the warm hugs and kisses in this thread about finding the right home and the right collector for the card etc. I’m calling B.S. given the right item/auction and I’m sure all of you would have a different point of view and would be a little less quick with the baseball card collecting rendition of Cumbaya.<br /><br />John<br /><br /><br />**P.S. No offense Paul but really on this?? I cant help but laugh a bit out loud no offense…. "Last night, I completed negotiations with a very generous, old school collector -- a huge admirer of the "Train" -- who was, in the end, most concerned with a proper forum for displaying his prized baseball card: a signed T206 card of Hall of Fame pitcher Walter Johnson."<br /><br />I mean wouldn’t Cooperstown have worked out well if it meant so much to him? Not that www.t206collector.com with it’s 30+ days of history doesn’t have the same pull for making sure the item was put on display in the proper forum for ages to come. Is there legal paperwork to be signed still ensuring you wont sell the card anytime soon etc? Wow who knew baseball cards could be so heavy.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Marty Ogelvie</b><p><P>Paul,</P><P>Congrats on your purchase and thanks for sharing the story. </P>

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Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>Paul - I can personally verify there being an authenticated Cicotte T-206. I do not own it, but I have seen it, held it, know exactly who owns it, etc - and probably can get a scan of it after the holidays.

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Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>I don't think Paul did anything wrong here.<br /><br />Heck, I don't think the seller did anything wrong here. <br />He may have left money on the table - he may not have.<br /><br /><br /><br />either way - great pickup Paul -<br />you are building a very cool collection.

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...Of my website if you want. But it is an attempt at sharing all known information about signed pre-war cards. And it is obviously a young website. But do a little research--there is a spate of meaningful displays of historic cards in the world and the web has been and will continue to fill that void. I just want to be a part of preserving and sharing. And it was in that spirit that this transaction got done. The seller asked as part of the sale that he reference my website in the closed listing. It was important for him to know where it was going and that he could share it publicly. Call BS if you want. Heck I can even understand it. But to crap on my website? Why would you want to discourage it? Not very nice, in my opinion. <br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Not dumping on your website Paul don’t read into things, I’m just pointing out what I found to be odd if true. That the sellers primary concern was making sure the card was displayed for all to enjoy etc. I think the sellers primary concern was selling the card hence why he listed it on ebay for sale and brokered a side deal with you.<br /><br />And if that truly was his concern that his prized possession was to be enjoyed for many years to come, I was only pointing out that there are many other alternatives which ensure this very desire that are arguably better than a collector’s webpage….<br /><br />Also for a guy with a take no prisoner’s attitude towards collecting, other collectors and auctions, I’m a bit surprised you’re so sensitive. I’m sure there’s a few folks who think ending the auction the way you did was not so nice.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Art M.</b><p>Seller listed the same card on Ebay in March 2006. Auction was ended early that time too:<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8775253711" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8775253711</a><br />

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>I can take the heat from competitive card collectors vying for the same card. I didn't appreciate your comments about my website--I still don't. They were personal in nature. And you can say my feelings are hypocritical given my practice. But my feelings on this one are that your words were hurtful and intended as such. No big deal. I usually agree with what you write. <br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Paul,<br /><br /> You certainly know how to network and negotiate in a convincing matter and congratulations on the cards. I'm just not thrilled how this went down either. Not that I would have bid on it, but I've always come from the school of thought that a promise is a promise. The seller deserves most of the blame here, but they are called auctions for a reason. And the assertion "I just had to have it beceause it's a once in a lifetime and I will love the card more" just doesn't fly. There were probably other collectors who wanted to to see the auction through who didn't want to do this in an under-handed way. I feel they would have cherished the chance just as much as you. This isn't sour grapes (after all, they're just baseball cards), it's treating people the way you want to be treated. You mentioned how you felt when the shoe had been on the other foot, now you do the same thing?<br /><br />Merry Christmas and I hope you enjoy the card,<br /><br />James<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Paul, I like your site I also like your collection. I just found it odd that this seller was moved to make this deal based on displaying of the item in question. Heck there are a lot of us here with webpages Paul, some with better collections than both of us put together LOL. I have to wonder two things if the auction went ahead as planned any winner could have displayed the card if they wanted too. Also he had obviously never heard of your or your webpage prior to listing the card, so I can’t help but scratch my head as to why this was a concern of his. <br /><br />I hope you understand where I’m coming from, my intention was not to hurt your feelings, just point out what I found to be an odd avenue and set of circumstances that led to this side deal.<br /><br />Have a great holiday Paul, and all head scratchers and questions aside enjoy your card.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>I would like to elaborate on my 'no wrong done here' stance.<br /><br /><br />Especially with the word 'hypocritical' brought up.<br /><br /><br />I think any eBay buyer who feels badly when an auction closes early.... well that is hypocrisy at its best!<br /><br />Yes - you may feel as though the seller has made a mistake, or that the seller left money on the table - - but to somehow feel that something 'wrong' has been done by the eBay community.... again - hypocrisy.<br /><br /><br />eBay buyers look for the bargain 24/7. They shun reserves even when reasonable. eBay buyers covet the auction that is placed in the wrong category (hmmmm.... do you point those out to the seller?) 90% of the time or better - eBay is the bargain basement for collectibles.<br /><br />So - in a marketplace where the 'buyer' is looking for the edge at the expense of the seller - I see no reason to cast blame on a seller who entertains the idea of ending an auction early.<br /><br /><br />For all who think the seller did wrong. Please start alerting sellers when they have placed an auction in the wrong category that they might get more money with their item in a correct category.<br /><br />Until then.... I will call it hypocrisy to feel that you were wronged by an auction closing early. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Funny many of the people on here getting on Paul for making a deal with the seller would do or have asked to do the same thing on other items. So why is this one any different? Congrats to Paul, the only person that did anything wrong was the seller noting in his auction he wouldnt end it early and everyone would get a chance...Paul didnt hold a gun to the guy's head to make him end it. If anything I may avoid the seller in the future knowing he will do this...or maybe I'll ask him to end something for me <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Dave, care to elaborate I’ve never asked a seller to end an auction early…I bid in them but sadly many occasions never get to finish them because people end them early with side deals, emails etc. <br /><br />In fact if I haven’t seen 1 post on here complaining about this practice I’ve seen 50, now it’s ok with everyone??<br />

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Posted By: <b>Doug</b><p>Since I probably didn't have a realistic chance of winning the card anyway, I'm glad that it went to a place where I can enjoy looking at it online for free. Not to sound like a suck up or anything, but I do enjoy your website and wanted to congratulate you on your newest addition!

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Posted By: <b>Ed Ivey</b><p>ditto what doug said. What an awesome treasure. My uncle, who grew up in DC and was 11 at the time, tells the story of when my granddad came in sadly to his bedroom, awoke him, and told him: "I just thought you'd want to know, the news says Walter Johnson has passed away". It was a shock, even to a child who never saw him play.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p> Who gives a rat's ass, really? Paul's only holding it for a while... Ya can't take all this pulp with you. Has anyone ever once seen a hearse pulling a U-Haul? <br /><br /> Besides, I'd be hard pressed to find any of you without a Johnson of your own. I'm lucky to have one, but rest assured, I won't own it forever.<br /> <br /> Eureka! Old idea for a new thread. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Wonka, I was struggling last night with my response. You have basically said everything I was thinking.<br /><br />Paul, you got a very fine card.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>pas</b><p>A willing seller and a motivated buyer negotiated a price for a baseball card. End of story.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>brevity is wonderful.<br /><br />You said in one sentence what took me a few paragraphs.<br /><br />I agree 100%

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>shane leonard</b><p>Paul,<br />I think the card is an awesome pickup. I don't think you did anything wrong by negotiating outside of eBay. You made him an offer too good to pass and your website probably helped out as well. If there is a card I have to have, you bet I will email the guy directly to let him know I will buy it right now or I am a serious bidder on it. <br />I appreciate your website and I think it is awesome that you have spent your time informing others like myself on T206s. <br /><br />Thanks and Merry Christmas,<br />Shane

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>This thread has been very telling for me.

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>John</b><p>"A willing seller and a motivated buyer negotiated a price for a baseball card. End of story."<br /><br />Yeah minus those poor suckers who were bidding or going to bid via snipes, who had the courtesy to let the auction run via the notes on the gentleman’s auction...it was clean transaction...well except for those other people involved.<br /><br />Correct me if I’m wrong but was this an auction or a sale on the BST???? Why were there negotiations taking place vs. bidding in the first place? Oh that’s right because the other folks who had put there bids in early and were following the auction rules weren’t included in the negotiation process for this card yet alone even aware it was open for negotiation behind close doors.<br /><br />Yeah seems clean cut to me…..<br />

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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>John,<br /><br />Game. Set. Match.<br /><br />Great post,<br /><br />James

T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
 

Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>wonka i'm with u in that i've never asked a seller to end an auction early (when there are already bids)...but it's so commonplace these days amd seems to be an accepted practice so what can you do. <br /><br />most of the responsibility lies with the seller...and in this case if it was me i would "never ever ever x 10^100 end the auction early...unless you put the scans up on a website where I can go view it occasionally..." so I can see where he's coming from also.

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Wonka how are you haven't seen you much of late, hope all is well.<br /><br />From my perspective ebay is just another way to sell a card. I see no problem with the guy ending it early or Paul "privately" neogtiating with him.

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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Since ebay is getting ripped out of their FV fees, I wonder if they will eventually shut down communications between buyer and seller (other than best offer).<br /><br />James

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Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p> I don't have a problem with what the buyer did. I do have a problem with what the seller did. As he did state publicly that he wouldn't end it early. Furthermore, I wonder what the tone of this thread would be like had the buyer not been a friend to this board? Would it still be 'Im glad that someone won it'?<br /><br />Steve D<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Steve D,<br /><br />That is a vary fair point.<br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Peter,<br /><br />I’m good and you? I hear you and agree with Quan it’s become so second place its hard to impossible to avoid, but I still don’t have to like it and until further notice will trail the high road and bid even if the auctions get canceled early. Guess I’ll take them when I can get them.<br /><br />But I think Steve is onto something here….<br /><br />”Who gives a rat's ass, really? Paul's only holding it for a while... Ya can't take all this pulp with you. Has anyone ever once seen a hearse pulling a U-Haul?”<br /><br />We can let it slide when somebody snags an off ebay deal…we just have to wait until their untimely death….to get an uninterrupted pop at a particular card or a second chance if you will. LOL<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>This whole topic is unfortunate because both sides are so completely and totally right.<br /><br />I think John Wonka hit it right on the nose with his two points above about why people ask to end auctions early. Wanting a steal or being worried about being able to stick out a last-minute fistfight probably account for the vast majority of early ends. But because of these actions, now people are really taking a chance if they decide to let an auction run its course for an unusual item. <br /><br />So if I were somehow adivising Paul through this process and was going to bear at least some responsibility for his outcome, I don't think I could - in good conscience - tell him to let the auction run its course even though I personally think no auctions should end early. There would be just too high of a chance that someone else would get it ended early, and his chance could be gone forever.<br /><br />I don't much like it, but the fact is that we have collectively created a situation in which it may not make sense to let an auction run. We did that. Not every person or individual, but the generic "we" of the collecting and dealing community. And the more "we" do it, the more people that disagree with the practice are almost forced to become part of it if they don't want to miss out on a very special card.<br /><br />Paul did what he all but had to do if he didn't want to run the very real risk of someone else getting it shut down. The fact that he and the seller clearly connected at a level beyond parties to a transaction - as collectors having a good old-fashioned conversation as Fred said - makes it a great story.<br /><br />Nice card Paul. I'm thrilled that it is in your collection. <br /><br />Joann<br /><br />And Wonka - to your point, if this happened in an auction for something that I really, really wanted, I'd be mad as a wet hen and spitting nails about it. So I do see that side of it. But if it were something truly important to me I probably would give strong consideration to trying to get it outside of ebay. There are just no good options or winners here.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>The fact is, ebay got ripped off -- one of the reasons the seller was so happy to sell it offline (of course, he may have left money on the table). And it is wrong to try to both induce a seller to end an auction early and to do so as a seller.<br /><br />All that being said, 90% of us do it when there is a card we think we must have. To the other 10%: you're right.

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>I am sure ebay's fee structure takes into account that this will happen from time to time. I would not worry about ebay.

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Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>Ebay allows for it. <br /><br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Much ado about nothing....Paul got it. Congrats! Besides James F. he is the only person I know that specifically collects autographed T-206's and I'm glad he got it. But like I said earlier it sounds like he might not have gotten it if his wife hadn't built him his website so she deserves an extra Christmas present this year.<br />