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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>The HOF had their first group of inductees in 1936 and of course Ty Cobb was in the first group of super-stars that got in. Cobb was vilified in his time and was hated by even his teammates. If the Hall didn't have a waiting period and the Hall opened in 1929 would Ty Cobb have gotten in immediately?<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Ken McMillan</b><p>probably.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Mark L</b><p>Of course. Without a doubt. Despite the rumors about gambling. Now why is this a question?
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Cobb finished his career with the Athletics and he was hated by teammates and had a love hate relationship with the fans. It's true that the sportswriters liked him because he gave them plenty to write about, but most of it was pretty negative stuff. I would say that it would be unlikely that he would go in with the first group but probably would have gotten in at later date.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Revisionist speculation. Who cares?
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Also at the time, the stats weren't all important like they are now. Cy Young with 511 wins didn't get in with the first group.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe_G.</b><p>That question is absurd. Of course Cobb would have made it first ballot. Be it 1929 or 1936, Cobb would have received more votes than anyone. The 1936 vote was as follows:<br /><br />226 ballots cast, 170 required to be elected (75%)<br /><br />- 221 Ty Cobb (97.8%)<br />- 215 Babe Ruth (95.1%)<br />- 215 Honus Wagner (95.1%)<br />- 205 Christy Mathewson (91.1%)<br />- 189 Walter Johnson (83.6%)<br /><br />missing 1st ballot<br /><br />- 146 Nap Lajoie (64.6%)<br />- 133 Tris Speaker (58.8%)<br />- 111 Cy Young (49.1%)<br /><br />And so on . . .<br /><br />Ty Cobb would have made it first ballot regardless of the year.<br /><br />That's my opinion, and I don't even collect Cobb, that stuff is too new.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br />Joe Gonsowski<br />
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Brett</b><p>Babe Ruth retired in 1935 and the first players to be inducted into the HOF was in 1936 and Ty Cobb still had more votes right after Ruth retired. I think its clear that Cobb would still have more votes regardless of the year.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>I basically go with Bill James theory on Hall of Famers, after a period of time people forget what an ornery SOB Cobb was and go with the numbers. So in 1929 he wouldn't have been in the first group, but in 1936 he would be.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>jay wolt</b><p>"So in 1929 he wouldn't have been in the first group, but in 1936 he would be."<br /><br />Peter where do you come up w/ this crap?<br />Its about abilty and #'s not a popularity contest.<br />Cobb would be elected easily in any year he was on the ballot be in 1929 or 1999.<br /><br />Edited for typo<br />
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I think people can not like but respect a player. Every knows Cobb was not the most likable fellow, but everyone respected him as a ball player. Played hard, long and well. Many NFL linebackers are ornery, but most don't even consider that a detraction. ... I think personality defects are considered a problem when they effect play (Darryl Strawberry, Denny McLain). There was nothing wrong with Cobbs' play.<br /><br />In 1928, Cobb would have been ranked as the best or second best player ever, and would have been voted in right away.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>Peter ... Where do you dig these up from? ......<br /><br />You can't possibly top this one.<br /><br />Allow me to give you the title of your book.<br /><br /> "Idle Thoughts by Peter C"
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />It would only contain a title page.<br /><br />Greg
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Knowing Peter's tastes, I assumed this was connected to Barry Bonds.<br /><br />I don't think Cobb was as mean and hated as people today make him out to be. Most people don't known he never beat cripples on Sundays.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>J Levine</b><p>Just for the record, the voting was 1936 but they were not technically "inducted or enshrined" until 1939.<br /><br />What is more interesting is why these future HOFers only got 1 vote that first vote!<br /><br />Baker, Clarke, Crawford, Dean, Gehringer, Hartnett, Mack, Marquad, and Vance. <br /><br />I do understand some of these getting one vote but Mack, Gehringer, and Crawford?<br /><br />BTW, in 1936 Joe Jackson got 2 votes.<br /><br />The list of people who missed it the first time is impressive...<br />Alexander, Speaker, Young, Lajoie, Hornsby, Cochrane, Sisler, Collins, Gehrig, Foxx, Terry, Brown, Evers, Chance, McGraw, Schalk, Bresnahan, and Bender.<br /><br />I am not shocked Cobb got in...players hated him for his antics but they respected him more for his playing ability than anything else.<br /><br />Joshua
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>cobb ABSOLUTELY would have been elected in 1929. <br /><br />next topic please.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Had Cobb been at the National this year, would he have waited to buy an autographed Barry Bonds Upper Deck card until Barry actually tied Aaron? And if Bud Selig had been commissioner in 1939, would he have attended the induction ceremonies? If Cobb were alive today, would he read <i>The Card</i>? If he were seen with a copy of <i>The Card,</i> would the value of his T206 cards be impacted? If Bobby Bonds had named his son Billy instead of Barry, would Aaron's record still be in jeopardy?<br /><br />There, I think I've covered everything for you, Peter.<br /><br />Next topic: If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>Boy, Peter C, you're taking a beating for this one...<br />these can be fun topics...but I read the same thing as Dadvidcycleback did, which was more of a "Is Barry Bonds the modern-day Ty Cobb?"<br /><br />Not sure about the answer to that...I wonder if everyone hated Cobb so much, were they afraid to say so at the time? I cringe everytime I hear a player interviewed about Bonds and you just know they really aren't saying what's on their mind.<br /><br />Edited: Oh, sorry, Rob...not to ignore you. I would be a Walnut tree, because I would like to have large nuts and be prized for my wood.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>While I personally dont think there is much to discuss here (yes, cobb would be in, there shouldnt be any debate about that) and perhaps a smartass comment or two are appropriate, I think some of the more personal attacks toward Peter above are completely unwarranted.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Neal Kane</b><p>enjoy frozen pizza if it was available back in the day? <br /><br />Chaoism is a fascinating philosophy.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>PS</b><p>Peter C. -- you have hit an all time low with this one.<br /><br />Truly.<br /><br />For a presumably serious collector of vintage cards, this was just plain silly.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>jay wolt</b><p>Here is the back of a 1927 York Caramel card on Cobb.<br />It was clear to everyone how great a player he was when<br />he was playing. To think that in 2 years that his stats<br />would diminish to the fans & voters is insane.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.qualitycards.com/pictures/e210b.jpg">
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>I like applesauce.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>Onto more important topics---<br /><br />Jay- how was the Nat'l?<br /><br />i'm home sick today, let me know when i can call you to chat.<br /><br />MVS
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>jay wolt</b><p>Mike - as everyone has stated the Nat'l was great.<br />Shoot me a call late afternoon and I'll fill ya in on the specifics.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>......<br />......<br />......<br /><br />There. Now I have added more to a rational discussion on vintage baseball than Peter has. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> (Note smiley)
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>Froto Lives.<br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>You are perceptive, I was going to come around to Barry. Remember our discussion today when Barry's turn for the HOF comes around. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Look, we would have to know if the Hall election was pre or post Crash and what role, if any, Cobb played in it. Also, Cobb's chances would be influenced by the specific day the election were held. Astrologers and numerologists would have to be consulted.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>"Imagine ... if Cobb used Steroids?" ............
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />Cobb was known to bend the rules as far as he could. If the umpire wasn't watching he would sometimes bypass 3d base on his way to home plate, I've little doubt that he would have taken steroids if they were available.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>That was a favorite tactic of Mike King Kelly to skip third, but I have never heard this accusation against Cobb. Do you have a cite for that Peter?
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Dan,<br /><br />I'll look it up and get back to you in a day or two.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>During the early days, many players would by pass bases.<br /><br />Why do you think that they added umpires to every base?<br /><br />Give us an indication that you've studied the history of the game, or change your source.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>Peter doesn't have a site, he just says whatever comes to his head.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p><<I've little doubt that he would have taken steroids if they were available.<br /><br />Peter C.>><br /><br />Mike Schmidt (who is my favorite player of all-time) basically came out and said that if he had the opportunity to use steroids and knew MLB would not discipline him, maybe he would have taken him, too. Are we know turning into the thought police based upon a characterization of Cobb from 75 years ago?<br /><br />Cobb and Babe Ruth played together in charity golf tournaments. He was a successful investor in the stock markets. He also established an educational fund. Cobb was many things -- some not so great, some better than any others. Looking at him from one perspective is not going to persuade anyone.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>But you have to understand the Peter C mind. .........
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>Is that a contradiction in terms? Edited to add <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>I've been told that there are certain people on this board that don't like smilies. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p><<But you have to understand the Peter C mind. .........>><br /><br /><br />What an unreasonable statement. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Edited to add a <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Edited to add a second <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Edited to add a third <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Edited to remove the third <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> (it was played out)<br /><br />Edited to add the previously removed third <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> (What the heck!)
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Bill K@sel</b><p>Either Peter has some serious hatred towards Cobb, or serious man-love for Barry. <br /><br />If only they had the Internets available to the voters in 1936 and previous years where youtube images and video of Cobb skipping third base, injecting HGH into his rear, and body slamming pit bulls who refused to fight him in a cage match the voters might have been swayed a bit. As it were all they had were smoke signals and pony express to get the news across the country....wait, maybe that was for Kelly....now I'm confused. :-|<br /><br />Had my parents not been Catholic my point would be moot and irrelevant.<br /><br />Will Barry get in the Hall? I really don't care. It won't change my opinion of him and it won't affect my love of the dead-ball era.<br /><br />Bill
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>but I do know that Cobb would have had no trouble getting in last year, when only Mr. Sutter garnered enough votes. That is some serious lack of competition.<br /><br />Parenthetical silliness: (Of course, most don't know this, but Sutter had to get in, simply to validate Sandberg's entry, since most of his qualifications centered around his performance against Sutter in that single 1984 twilight game at Wrigley Field!)<br /><br />If Barry is elected into the HOF and no one is around to care about it, will he still be a HOFer?<br />Answer: Only if Mastro auctions off his travel kit<br />
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>It could not have been Prof Peter C. ........<br />For you see ......<br />He is too busy trying to eliminate Cleveland from being one of the national's alternating cities.<br />He claims that Cleveland is a disaster, and doesn't desreve another shot.<br /><br />What puzzles me Dr Watson is: <br />That most people heard from, had a great time at the Cleveland show, and found cards that they never expected to see. ... but what do they know.<br /><br />Prof Peter C wasn't there, and that's what counts.<br /><br />Dr Watson ... did you just barf? ...............<br /><br />
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Anyone care to speculate the impact on current prices of vintage cards if we were to assume Cobb would have used steroids? And would that help sales of "The Card?"
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>But in your wildest imagination, can you imagine what his records, and numbers would have been? .......
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Ed Ivey</b><p>If Cobb had used steroids.....<br /><br /> .367*
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>I don't even want to THINK about Ty Cobb with "'roid rage".
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>He would have climbed a mountain to punch an echo. <br /><br />Always loved that description of him.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I wonder how much of Cobb's statistics are directly related to determination and not talent....How good would he have been if he hadn't been hazed as a rookie?
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>...plus his Mom blew his Dad away("Don't come home a failure.") and he was still pissed about the Civil War.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />I know you guys believe in fairness (maybe I assume too much?), anyway, here's my argument, there will come a day when we consider both Cobb and Bonds to be on the same level of achievement. In other words they will be both considered first tier hall of famers.<br /><br />Put their careers in historical perspective, they both cheated during their careers, they were both vilified. Am I overstating Barry's case? I don't think so.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i'm sorry, maybe i missed something...how did cobb cheat?
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>In other words, both Cobb and Bonds are guilty, even though they haven't been proven guilty?<br /><br />You're an attorney???
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />Are you saying they are both innocent? Okay, they are both innocent.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Mike<br /><br />Cobb was implicated along with Tris Speaker in a scandal in 1926 of fixing a game in 1919. Here's one article on it, from Timothy Gay, the author of the recent Tris Speaker biography <a href="http://tinyurl.com/y49kqc" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/y49kqc</a> <br /><br />Max<br /><br />
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Well Guys,<br /><br />According to a ESPN survey, Cobb was in the top 10 of all-time baseball cheaters. Barry wasn't even in the running.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Mark L</b><p>One version of the scandal is that Cobb bet on his own team. But what if he bet against his club or, as Joe Wood said Speaker did, threw some games? This would mean that he laid down and didn't add to his own great record. This can be distinguished from taking illicit drugs that enable certain modern players to gain an unnatural advantage.<br />
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>According to Dusty Baker, if you are not cheating then you are not trying.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>If the press in 1929 was anything like it was today then Cobb and Speaker would have been given the bum's rush for the HOF due to the betting scandal. I have to read up on the scandal actually, it's beena while and my memory is hazy.<br /><br />Also, there was a great article in SCD a few years ago that debunked a lot of the anti-legend of Ty Cobb. There was some new research and the conclusion was that Cobb was a fiery competitor and could be a royal, cantankerous pain in the you know what but was actually a somewhat generous and charitable man off the field. He would be considered a grizzled old vet today, I think.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>He's also the guy that beat-up a one-armed fan during a game. <br /><br />The charitable side of Cobb came after his playing and managerial days were over. Barry has a charitable side also, we may see more of it after he retires.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>Sean has more baseball insight than you do. ...........<br /><br />In less time on this planet.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>Peter, <br />I believe Cobb went into the stands and attacked a man in a wheelchair, if that's the event you are referring to.<br /><br />Also, for what it's worth, I watched a 9 minute clip on Cobb from Burns' Baseball. John Thorn, the historian/author said that while Cobb wasn't the most talented, he was the most determined. It just goes to show, what drive, determination, and perseverance can do.<br /><br />
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>If we could all live to be 150 it would be interesting to see how players like Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and the rest of the contemporary "cheaters" are viewed by society and collectors. The collectors of today are paying huge premiums for cards of cheaters...and not just those associated with the Black Sox. Hal Chase may have been the king of baseball cheaters and his cards even carry a premium. Will Barry Bonds be romanticized the same way Joe Jackson has been? Only Sean may be around to know.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I just a read a piece on the SABR-l list pointing out that Olympic level athletes in track, swimming and other sports have been using steroids and other performance enhancers for over 30 years. These people don't have anywhere near the monetary resources that baseball players do, yet they manage to stay ahead of the drug testers.<br /><br />Do you really think that just because testing has been implemented that no one is cheating anymore. I guarantee you that players are still cheating and they are using the latest and greatest drugs that can't be detected by tests. A-Rod makes more money anyone in baseball. I'd more surprised that he isn't using something than if he is clean.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>The players are making millions for superstars like A-Rod and Barry we are talking 10s of millions. They have the resources to obtain the best steroids and designer drugs money can buy. They have the economic incentive to stay a couple of steps ahead of the testers.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>"The Totally Negative Mind of Peter C" ...........
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p><<Well Guys,<br /><br />According to a ESPN survey, Cobb was in the top 10 of all-time baseball cheaters. Barry wasn't even in the running.<br /><br />Peter C.>><br /><br />Peter:<br /><br />I stand corrected. Now that I am able to know the combined opinions on this matters from a bunch of 20 and 30-year old men (not to mention a few thousand teenagers), the significant majority of whom know absolutely nothing about baseball 90 years ago. But I do humblly stand corrected.<br /><br />From a pure polling perspective, I actually think that Family Feud probably has it best. They ask 100 random people, you know. "Survey says..." Although it was a little more reliable when Richard Dawson was host, I think.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Charles Alexander in his biography about Ty Cobb discusses cheating by Ty Cobb. Also brought up was the time when he went into the stands and beat up a fan in a wheelchair, there was also discussion about his racism. There were also hints that he may have tried to throw a baseball game. Ty Cobb was no angel. If he's a first tier Hall of Famer then so is Barry.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter, your use of logic is impeccable once again. Too bad Charles Alexander can't write a book about Bonds fast enough to support your "Charles Alexander" conclusion.<br /><br />
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>i have to admire how peter can resurrect an inane dead post,he started, seemingly just to expose himself to more jabs. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>I agree w/JK. I don't check this site very often but I'm always amazed by two things:<br /><br />1) the number of obnoxious remarks made toward peter C.<br /><br />2) that Peter C. manages to take the abuse hurled at him w/such good humor.<br /><br />Peter, you are a better man than I am.<br /><br />BTW...I don't think it was such an outlandish question but I do think Ty would have been elected in a 1929 vote.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>You know as well as I do that in order to continue practicing law you need to have a thick skin. You are going to quit practicing before me because my skin is thicker than yours. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />I know you have doubts that the Georgia Peach is a first tier HOFamer. After all, he probably bypassed third base more than a few times on his way towards home plate.<br /><br />Well, with Barry there's absolutely no doubt that he's a first tier HOFamer. You could subtract 3 MVPs from his career for cheating and he would still have 4 which is more than any player ever.<br /><br />You could also subtract 300 HRs and 100 stolen bases from his career and he will still be the only player to ever hit over 400 HRs and steal over 400 bases.<br /><br />Sounds like a first tier HOFamer to me. Now if he was a racist he would be on the same tier as Cobb.<br /><br />Peter C.<br /><br />
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>What humor?<br /><br />By now, you should know.<br /><br />He's a Masochist. ... he loves getting whipped.<br />He'll even pick out the right whip for you.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>"Now if he was a racist he would be on the same tier as Cobb."<br /><br />Not a racist? I dunno, Peter.......,<br /><br /><br /><br />In an excerpt from Ron Kittle's Tales from the White Sox Dugout, that appeared on May 31 in suburban Chicago’s Southtown News newspaper, former Chicago White Sox player Kittle quotes Bonds as saying, "I don't sign [autographs] for white people."<br /><br /><br /><br />The setting was the visitors’ clubhouse at the Chicago Cubs’ Wrigley Field home in 1993, when Bonds’ San Francisco Giants had come to town. Kittle, by then retired from the game, had asked Bonds to sign two jerseys Bonds had worn in games, so that Kittle could auction them for Indiana Sports Charities, his philanthropy helping kids with cancer.<br />I paid about $110 of my own money for them, so they could be auctioned off at the golf outing. I did that all the time for stars like Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Derek Jeter and Roger Clemens. When I tell them how their autographs help the cause, every player gladly signs -- with one exception.<br /><br /><br />I walked up to Bonds at his locker in the Wrigley Field visitors' clubhouse, introduced myself and said, ‘Barry, if you sign these, they'll bring in a lot of money for kids who need help.<br /><br /><br /><br />Bonds stood up, looked me in the eye and said, “I don't sign for white people.” If lightning hits me today, I will swear those were his exact words. Matt Williams and other Giants were in the room and they heard what Bonds said.<br /><br />I stood there for a minute, and the veins in my neck were popping. I've only been that mad a few times in my life. I was going to beat the (heck) out of him, really kick his (butt), but Williams saw what was happening, so he came over and got between us. Matt said, “Ron, that's just the way he is.”
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter, you're right: I probably will cease practicing law before you but not for the reason you suggested. As for Cobb, I suppose I measure the value of a HOFer on how he compared to his contemporaries. Gaudy numbers from a different era are not necessarily helpful. But what do you think of a player like Cobb who routinely was in the top 3 in the following categories: batting average, on base percentage, slugging percentage, runs, hits, total bases, homeruns, RBI and stolen bases -- and in fact led the league in all of those categories in 1909? Barry ever do that?<br /><br />Nevertheless, there is no question that Bonds is an incredible player and his numbers and career merit first ballot selection. However, his blatant steroid using makes it difficult for me to consider him a first ballot guy. I suspect I'd still vote for his induction even if he was convicted of lying to the GJ about his steroid use; I think he's that great of a player even without the power. All anyone has to do is watch Bonds at the plate to recognize his greatness. I just think that the point has to be made, as it was made with McGwire, that a blatant cheater should not be just welcomed with open arms into the HOF.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Bob,<br /><br />Ron Kittle had every right to pound Barry for that racist remark. Especially in that situation.<br /><br />Jeff,<br /><br />Barry's career isn't over yet and he says he wants 3,000 hits. Who knows? He may win Come Back Player of the Year in the NL.<br /><br /><br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>So since Bonds made that racist remark doesn't that make him a racist?
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Peter,<br />I wasn't asking for opinions on whether or not Kittle was justified in being pissed over Bonds' behavior. My, I would think obvious, point was to show, that, contrary to your belief that Bonds isn't a racist this incident evidences otherwise.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Barry's lived in both Menlo Park and presently lives in Beverly Hills in California. If he was a racist he wouldn't be living in virtually lily-white neighborhoods.<br /><br />He does have some racist tendencies...but it is more like he has a huge chip on his shoulder. He's a second generation star in the Bay Area, Bobby Bonds, his father was loved by many here. His godfather is Mays who lives in Atherton, another rich white neighborhood. Barry's been a celebrity his entire life...and has been treated as such.<br /><br />But still Barry is a proud black man...in his warped way, he probably thinks that by making racist comments he's getting back at some caucasians who don't treat blacks well. We need to tell Barry it doesn't work that way, and he is being just as racist as the people he's condemning.<br /><br />Peter C.
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Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter....um....I am actually speechless.
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