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Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>Was that you Jeff ?<br /><br />edited title....
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Yup, that was me. Jeez, am I getting fat.
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>What was it about?<br />JimB
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Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>I believe the Lynn Stewart case. <br /><br />She of the 93 bombing defense fame.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Yeah, that was it. I had mixed feelings about the whole thing, not sure if it was apparent on TV.
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Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>It was. <br /><br />Not the usual defense stuff that us non lawyers usually hate. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Didn't see it, and although she got a very light sentence, two plus years for a woman in not such great health is no picnic either. Not sure what my opinion on this case is either, as it seems she did both good and bad things during her career.
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I saw a little bit of that but didn't see our own Jeff out there. I am sort of undecided but if she helped terrorists, like it looks like she did, then I have very little sympathy. I don't know the whole story though....
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Posted By: <b>ramram</b><p>Hey Jeff - Just curious if Abdel Rahman has tried to ask you to pass on any coded messages to his buddies? (i.e. Tell Ty Cobb to get his T206 and attack the N172) <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Rob M.
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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The intention of this thread was a litmus test to see who watches Fox News<br />and who doesn't. Come on, no one was surprised to see Leon saw the show and <br />Barry didn't.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Clever observation David. Now you know how we will vote this election day.
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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Due to all the lawyers on board, I was thinking this was an early screening<br />for Supreme Court Justice.<br /><br />The follow up question was to be, "What flavor was your cappuccino while watching Keith Olbermann?"
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Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>David<br />Isn't he that crazy lib ? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />O'Reilly guy's drink coffee.... not that foreign stuff.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Rahman isn't a baseball fan, he prefers football instead (he loves to see the bomb thrown); therefore, I could never represent him.
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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>O'Reilly's audience HAS to drink coffee so they don't fall asleep in front of the tv in tha lounge in the nursing home.
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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Obviously Scott's quote was tongue in cheek, but it is worth pointing out that<br />most US coffee is imported, whether it's used to make a frothy mocha or a greasy<br />spoon drip. I don't care what party one belongs to, few are eager to drink a cup<br />made from beans picked from the hills of Jersey City.
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Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>Thanks David.<br /><br />Hence the <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Adam, don't kid yourself-O'Reilly is the highest rated cable talk show, period, in like every demographic. More young people watch him, by far, than anyone else.
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Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>Jeff, <br /><br />I was sure you were joking, but my search for a smiley face emoticon in your post has, like Al Capone's vaults, shockingly turned up nothing. This left me a bit concerned for the future of our nation, so I was hoping you could clarify what qualifies as "young people" today? <br /><br />If "young people" are really watching O'Reilly, I would suggest that perhpas the most likely scenario would be that a marijuana-induced remote control malfunction has left their television on Fox when they were searching for The Colbert Report and they were too stoned to realize that Stephen Colbert wears glasses. Maybe they were watching the playoffs on Fox, then switched to Comedy Central, then accidentaly hit the "last channel" button without realizing it. I can definitely see the appeal of watching Bill O'Reilly if you think his show is tongue-in-cheek political satire dripping with yummy irony. Especially if you're high! Doritos and Bill O'Reilly: Curing the munchies of America's youth since 1996!<br /><br />But really, I think you're probably just taking a jab at Olbermann, so I hereby pronounce you today's net54 Worst...Person...In The World!<br /><br />-Ryan<br /><br />P.S. Insert smiley face somewhere above. Wherever would offend you the least.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Ryan- I'm with you. If more young people watch O'Reilly is that a feather in O'Reilly's cap or a condemnation of how conservative America's youth are? When I was young I would have used an 8" x 10" of O'Reilly to roll joints on, and have a few good laughs along the way.
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Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>O'Reilly's allright in my book. <br /><br />I think his value's are what we need in this country at this point in our history.<br /><br />I guess i'm not a young'en anymore but his value's and thoughts on where our country needs to go ring very true for someone like me. <br />( White married male w/2 children and a buisness to protect)<br /><br />Am i in the minority ? I can't believe that.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>No Scott, you are probably in the majority, and that is what is so disheartenening to me. Where is all the moral outrage that we felt growing up during the Viet Nam war? Don't want to get too carried away, as I know Leon does not like these political threads. But I need to rave and rant every once in a while to get it out of my system.
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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>SCOTT<br /><br />Your in the majority.....I watch O'Reilly (sometimes I agree with him and other times<br />I don't); but, in any event about 2 MILLIOM viewers watch him every nite.<br />And, my 20-year old Grandson prefers FOX to the other lesser news stations.<br /><br />Jeff is correct that a large number of young people are getting their news from FOX<br />or the Internet.....as opposed to the "Old Media".<br /><br /> So RYAN, I do not appreciate your uninformed comments. You can't be serious, man ? <br /><br />On that M(ost) S(enseless) NBC channel, that "liberal weenie" Keith Olberman is lucky<br /> if he gets 200,000 viewers.<br /><br /> Hey RYAN, do the math.....that's a factor of 10-1.....so, who suddenly made you the "judge"<br /> of Net54....of who is deemed "good" and who is the "worst" ? ? ? ?<br /><br />I have never met Jeff Lichtman and I do not know him; other than reading his posts on<br /> this Forum. And, I like what I read from him.<br /><br />What is with you guys ? Do we need to run a SURVEY to see who favors the FOX news<br /> network vs. the C(ommunist)NN ? We don't need that kind of "crap" on this Forum.<br /> I tune into this site to be educated and to contribute regarding VINTAGE BB cards,<br /> or chat about BB in general.....not someone's political "B.....S".<br /><br />T-Rex TED
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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>We need more people with the values and concerns of Lou Dobbs, not Biull O'Reilly.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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Posted By: <b>Mark Evans</b><p>While I am squarely in the Adam/Barry/Ryan camp, I would make the point that my beef with O'Reilly and Olbermann, as well as most other commentators, is that they present complicated issues in too simplistic terms. Most of the tough issues we face have at least two arguable sides but such a presentation typically lacks drama and fails to instill passions. I think we would all be better off if there were some tv commentators who both educate and entertain in an even-handed manner. Ted Koppel's former Nightline show comes to mind, although perhaps not everyone would agree. Mark
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Ryan, I'm trying to find something in my posts here that indicate that I either like O'Reilly's show, like him or support any of his positions. All I reported was his show's demographics. Alas, I cannot - but that didn't stop you from jumping to conclusions about me. I had taken a neutral political position on the Stewart case when I was on - that she belonged in jail (unlike most liberal thinking), just not a de-facto life sentence (unlike most conservatives). I also supported O'Reilly's position that the country has gotten way too negative when it comes to political criticism. After the show was over, I only received one death threat from someone who presumed I was a lefty (even though my comments implied no political leanings at all). I'm simply amazed at how angry people are in this country - both liberal and conservative - which causes them to not think clearly sometimes. I think it's bad for our country, period, regardless of one's political affiliation. <br />
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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Everyday I'm pleased with my decision to leave both the Republicans and Democrats behind. Neither of them represent my values and the "shouting heads" programs are like political junk food, lots of rhetoric, little substance. My life is actually more informed, and more happy with out the CNN's, Washington Posts, and Fox News' of the world.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jeff- I think you made a very good point and we even prove it on this board- that the country is very split and likewise very angry. The Nov 7 elections should be a good indicator of just how outraged people may or may not be. And you really got a death threat? There are so many nuts out there. And Ted, while you are free to dislike the way Keith delivers the news, calling him a Communist is hitting below the belt. That's just an old schoolyard ruse that doesn't hold much water. But we're still friends. I take it back, you called the network, not Keith, Communist. My error, but same sentiment.
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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>And....NO Where did I refer to KO as a "commie"....just a "liberal weenie"....there is a difference !
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Ted- you are right, I did misread your post. But "liberal weenie", that's actually a funny term. I guess I'm one of those too, but I've been called worse.
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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>And may I add (as I think to myself) that I try to be very careful who I discuss political matters with. I tend to be more conservative, but most of my friends are democrats, and when we approach issues, we always make ground rules. Terms like "liberal", don't really describe anything, and mean different things to different folks. What my friends and I have agreed on is that the art of civil debate is long lost in this country. Our media is so catered to our niche and interest, that if we don't want to, we don't have to think outside of the box; creating lazy mindsets and lazy politics.<br /><br />James (The Christian, anti-Christian-coalition, anti-neo-con, anti-war, anti-death penalty (except for terrorists) Conservative)
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Posted By: <b>Bill K</b><p>I'm sorry, there is no way I can watch O'Reilly after hearing that nasty phone sex tape; where his co-worker sued him. The mental image of that whacko is burned into my brain.<br /><br />Give me Jon Stewart every day of the week and twice on Sunday.<br /><br />Bill<br><br>My personal collection - <a href="http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/</a>
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Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>Ted, <br /><br />Glad to hear you're an objective critical thinker when watching O'Reilly ("sometimes I agree with him and other times I don't") just when I thought O'Reilly was like a preacher and his viewers, the choir. Although the tone of your entire post does smell a little choirish. You obviously didn't get the "worst person in the world" joke if you think I am playing Net54 judge. Still, I'd be interested to hear what information in my post I am "uninformed" about. Would you mind specifically addressing the factual inaccuracies in my post? If possible, please do so in a way that sounds less like Zell Miller than your last post. Thanks. <br /><br /><br />Jeff, <br /><br />I didn't mean to imply I was drawing any personal conclusions about you, other than assuming you may have been taking a jab at Olbermann. If that was not true, I apologize. I even offered an olive branch in the form of a smiley face at the bottom of my post, although I still refuse to use the actual emoticon. And where did I say anything about you liking, not liking, or agreeing with O'Reilly? I wasn't challenging (and don't care about) your political views, nor those of other board members. All I was, and still am challenging is your statement about young people. I would still like an answer as to what you are defining as "young people."<br /><br />Incidentally, I agree with you on the predicament the country finds itself in, with the anger people feel on all political sides often suspending their capacity for rational thought. It's exactly this kind of emotional vulnerability that makes people susceptible to propaganda, in all its forms. I can generally distill a decent idea of the truth from whatever news source it comes from because I have an understading that each particular media outlet will have their own particular bias. In fact, it's often useful to hear the same story reported several times, each with a different bias. My concern is that most "young people" might have a harder time not believing what they are shown on television. This is where a show like O'Reilly's could dangerous. Not because of what he believes in or says. Like him or not, no one's going to say he's an unbiased reporter of the truth, right? At least, not with a straight face. I don't care what people believe, I would jsut hope they had a chance to develop their beliefs on their own, because they actually believe them, not because of some unquestioned loyalty to their family's views or vague idea of political correctness or whatever else. Really, all I am raling against is intellectual laziness. <br /><br />Believe me, I fully realize where the great majority of this board falls along political lines. I completely understand that most board members will view me as ignorant for saying these things. I am not blind to that and it doesn't bother me. We are a unique group on this board and there are many differences between us, but it's important to remember that we are not a microcosm of the country. Let's not pretend we're a diverse group here.<br /><br />-Ryan
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Nobody should be looking to Bill O'Reilly as their moral compass. Unless sexual harassment, lying and bullying are all okay with them.<br /><br />And anyone claiming FOX news to be unbiased and fair and balanced really needs a reality check....just a quick check with them this morning and I can see they are on full alert scary mode running with the NFL Dirty bomb story which even the federal government says is baseless, but hey gotta scare up them votes somehow....
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dan- you know the tactic: only Republicans can save us from terrorism; if the Democrats come back into power, they'll be welcoming the terrorists into the country with open arms. I am amazed that that tactic has actually worked and has been so successful. Why do people actually believe it?
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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Duly note that I've seen no more than five minutes of either show, and don't<br />offer my political views on this board, so my earlier comments were strictly<br />jokes-- except the part about no one wanting to drink coffee from Jersey City.<br />
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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />Who believes it? Most real conservatives don't buy it, many die-hard Republicans are admitting Iraq is a failure, Republican political candidates want nothing to do with Bush, who believes it now?
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I don't believe it, but I think the voters have been scared into believing it. But if they no longer do, Nov 7 should be interesting.
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Let's see, the so called conservatives turned a budget surplus into the largest deficit this country has ever seen. Pork barrell spending is at its zenith and Bush has never used his Veto power once to strike any of it down. So far 8 Republicans have been either indicted or plead guilty in the Abramoff scandal for taking bribes, Denny Hastert looked the other way when a Republican member of congress was showing a little too much interest in underage pages. Tom Delay is under indictment for money laundering. Bill Frist under investigation for insider trading....not to mention his creepy admission to dissecting cats in his apartment when he was in college...oh and don't forget how he diagnosed Terry Schaivo from watching a videotape. <br /><br />And I didn't even mention the federal government's embarassing response to Katrina, wiretapping Americans, destroying Habeas Corpus and the wishy washy attempts to claim they are protecting Americans while at the same time doing nothing to secure either the Mexican or Canadian border and outsourcing our port security to a company in Dubai - a country that supports the Taliban.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dan, you've got my vote.
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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Neither party will have enough votes to do anything after November 7th. I can't wait.
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Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>"only Republicans can save us from terrorism; if the Democrats come back into power, they'll be welcoming the terrorists into the country with open arms."<br /><br />Unfortunatlly Barry i do believe this. I don't know how people can see how the mid to late 90's philosophy of nonretaliation can be seen as the road to take.<br /><br />As for O'Reilly. Like Ted there are time's i agree and time's i don't. But i do believe he is trying to do good and show how important it is for us as a country to have some sort of value system to follow. (Moral compass) ? I guess is a good phase.<br /><br />Where these sex charge's ever proven ? Not sure i heard that.
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>O'Reilly gave Andrea Mackris anywhere from 2-10 million dollars to drop her lawsuit. Innocent people don't settle for 2-10 million dollars if the charges are false. She had him on tape doing some pretty disgusting things. I'm pretty sure O'Reilly has singlhandedly destroyed the falafel industry. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />How's that for morality?
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Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>I just pulled this up on CBS news.<br /><br />"O'Reilly lawyer Ronald Green had said he believed there were tapes of conversations between the two and asked a court to compel Mackris to produce them so they could be played publicly."<br /><br />Not sure thats a sign of guilt either. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Scott- back in the late 90's, 9/11 hadn't happened yet. Now the stakes are ratcheted up and if the Democrats get back in the driver's seat they better be ever more vigilant. I think they know that but we shall see. If not, we might as well sell our baseball cards now before we are all turned back into dust.
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Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p>when this Board gets back on track. <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Scott, how did Ronald Reagan retaliate against Hezbolloh for killing 200+ American soldiers in Beirut?
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>FOX, let's not forget that those long-playing favorites like NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC all have slants on the news too and while it's definitely off center it ain't to the right. And while you're perusing the halls of Congress Dan, there's a skeleton or two in a few dozen of the Democrats closets. Always the other guy..........<br /><br />Speaking of morality....hmmm....who was that guy named....Clinton?
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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>how did Ronald Reagan retaliate against Hezbolloh for killing 200+ American soldiers in Beirut?<br /> <br />By knocking off Grenada.<br />
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Steve- if you read my last post I did use the term "baseball cards". Doesn't that count as getting back on track?
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Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>I think back in the 80's the threat was not understood as it is now.<br /><br />No doubt looking back something should have been done than. But who knew where this was going ?<br /><br />Yes Iraq is bad right now. But i think the basic premise was right. <br /><br />How can you not feel it's either them or us.<br /><br />Most if not all that we are fighting in Iraq are committed to exporting there brand of Islam. If it is not dealt with now. Than when and where ?
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Posted By: <b>Bryan Long</b><p>This may sound very stupid to everyone that has posted on this thread so far, but after reading the entire thread I decided to give my opinions for what they are worth.<br /><br />I consider myself the typical young AMERICAN. But I do not watch the news and I rarely watch anything political. The media circus in our world has created the "Angry American." It is no longer about being informed, but being reformed into the mindless soldiers that both political parties are wanting the citizens of American to be. Whether you are talking about Olbermann, O'Reilly, or any other paid sell-out that stands in front of a camera pretending to be the all-knowing, all-powerful, follow-me type of person.<br /><br />Bush is not at fault for our problems. Clinton is not at fault for our problems. Who is? The media! The media created the "Angry American" because it means dollor signs. The angrier America gets the more they watch the news and follow the advise of so-called now-it-alls.<br /><br />We hear news everyday about who killed who, who robbed what and who kidnapped who - but why? Because that is what sells. Rarely do we hear the stories of the heroes the exist in our world everyday. A celebrity (or politican) dives in the ocean to save a drowning swimmer and it gets 5 minutes on the midnight news, but a celebrity (or politican) jumps in front of a on-coming car and you hear about it for several days. How the man had problems - his wife left him - his dog died of cancer - his gerbil committed suicide by hanging himself from his running wheel. And all of this because he voted for George W. Bush (or Clinton) and hates himself for it. <br /><br />We are angry because we are forced to be anrgy by what we are told - true or not true. Maybe becoming numb to the news and the members of the news that spew it out is making me a bad American - but if that is the case then Americans are filled with young bad Americans. Instead of following the rich and powerful for your information, do your own research. Instead of being told what the "truth" is - find out for yourself.<br /><br />-- OK after reading this I realized that it no longer had much to do with what the thread was really about, but I though that it may still have some degree of truth to it . . . so I figured what the heck, I may as well post it. I apologize for my ramblings. --<br /><br />Respectfully,<br />One Angry Youth of America<br><br>.
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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>RE:your post......<br />"Let's see, the so called conservatives".......<br /><br />Your litany of liberal "Talking Points" will not influence Americans in how they<br />vote in Nov. These did not work 2 years ago when G. W. Bush received more<br />votes than any previous President....62,000,000+. There are really two main<br /> factors which will determine this year's election.<br /><br />1st....Parents are very concerned about the safety of their families. And the<br /> fact that we have not been "targeted" in 5+ years since 9-11-2001 is very<br /> important to them.<br /> And, consider this....if we were to get hit again, all those mundane items you<br />listed do not mean a damn thing.<br /><br />2nd....Their "pocketbooks" matter....the DOW is at a record-breaking 12,000 today and<br />this is mainly attributable to the dynamic of BROAD-BASED Tax cuts these past 5 years.<br />People are seeing more of their income and are also happy with the EQUITY they have<br />gained (and are drawing from) in their homes these past 5 years.<br />Plus, here in Pennsylvania we are paying just $2.00 for gas....what is it going for out<br /> your way ?<br /><br />That's it guy......with POSITIVE factors like this......people do not want a change.<br /><br />The election of 2004 proved that "NEGATIVISM" does not win....the American Spirit is<br /> that of OPTIMISM.<br /><br />T-Rex TED <br />
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Not sure why some guy named Mike keeps emailing me saying this is TOO political and not giving a good return email addy. Discuss politics all you want to in this thread but let's don't let it permeate to others please....thanks
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Posted By: <b>Mike</b><p>OK, now I see how this has everything to do with vintage baseball cards and nothing to do with politics. Weak.
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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Bryan,<br /><br />Post of the thread, completely spot on. Arguing about such things is a complete waste of good energy.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Ted -people desperately want a change. I can't promise you a change will make America better, it very well may not. But I don't think we have ever had a moment in history where Americans wanted a change more than they do today. I think you are in for a surprise this Nov 7. Didn't we used to make bets on the election in the old days?
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Ted, I am a parent and I'm far more worried about guys like Mark Foley preying on my child than I am the next terrorist attack. If you feel the GOP led by Bush is making us safer with your strawman argument that we haven't been "targeted" in the last five years then go ahead and vote Republican. As FDR said "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself"....sounds like Bushco and Fox News have you mighty fearful. And that's too bad.<br /><br />As for gas being at $2.00/gallon who didn't see that coming? Manipulating the price of oil right before an election in which the GOP has absoulutely nothing else to run on? Why it's the least the big fat oil companies could do after the billion dollar windfall (read corporate welfare) they all recieved in the last energy bill.
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Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>EDIT:<br /><br />Nah, I should shut up. This is a baseball card board. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />-Al
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dan- I saw the same thing coming. A few weeks before the election, and gas suddenly gets cheap. That's the oldest trick in the book.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Hey -- wasn't this thread about me? Can't we get back to that? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Ryan, thanks for clearing that up. I just presumed by what you wrote that you thought I was an O'Reilly supporter because I was on his show (I'm also on other shows across the political spectrum). As for the young people that watch O'Reilly, I mean the age group of 18 to approximately early 30s. Certainly, Fox News has a large share of this demographic. As for Keith, it's a different type of show and has to go up against the O'Reilly buzz saw every night. He does like baseball cards, however, so he's ok in my book.<br /><br />Barry, I appreciate what you say about the need for change. Alas, in America, when one party is out of power for a while it is inevitable that they will get back into power as the status quo, i.e. the party in power, eventually angers all.<br /><br />I don't purport to know Bill O'Reilly in any meaningful way. However, I happen to think based on my limited dealings, that he is a decent guy and I agree with him a lot and disagree with him a lot. I don't color my views to take advantage of a show I'm on; I just say what's on my mind. The fact that he may or may not have sexually harrassed an underling does not necessarily color my view of him. After all, if Bill Clinton can do it so can O'Reilly. My point is, we shouldn't be so quick to condemn public figures for their personal shortcomings. After all, I'm sure all of us have done things we are not proud of. <br /><br />Finally, we really are in such a dangerous part of our history with what is going on in the world and all. I think finger-pointing and negativity solely to advance one's cause is not the way to go. It's selfish, shortsighted and doesn't advance the ball at all.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>An intelligent well balanced response. I for one don't think that the Democrats taking charge of the country is going to make things that much better at all. I just think that the staus quo is so hopelessly abysmal that we have to make a change. The current administration has failed miserably, embarrassingly so, so it's just time to give someone else a chance. Hey, they may not do any better, but our choices are limited. Fortunately in America we have choices.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Jeff- good thoughts well spoken<br /><br /><br />Bryan- "his gerbil committed suicide by hanging himself from his running wheel." <br /><br />Although an amimal lover I thought that was pretty good...
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>above...the litmus test for just how upset the American people are will be November 7th....there were huge amounts of people sabre-rattling before the 2004 elections....but we are where we are because the votes fell the way they did (unless the voting conspiracy is as large as the big oil conspiracy.....guess the republicans not only control the gas prices but also the market forces of the entire world which caused oil to drop to below $60 per barrel). I voted for Clinton twice....okay, I admit it. Even as a Republican. I guess I can be treated for it now if I believe in a higher power.....hopefully all of us look at more than Donkeys and Elephants when we're figuring out where to cast our vote. This is NOT a one issue race. 2008 will NOT be a one issue race. If they are, we all lose.........
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>The world OIL market is not controlled by any one man or any one political party.<br /> It is a GLOBAL market force, and if you don't understand that then I am a fool to<br /> continue to discuss anything, anymore with you......bye.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>A world oil market controlled by very few companies all with a vested interest in making sure that one of their largest consumers is led by a party that doesn't want to look for alternative energy and also doesn't care how much they pollute.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>Dan,<br /><br />I as a parent as well. I have more fear of a bombing or highjacking as the world stands now. One errant sleazeball congressman i do not fear.<br /><br />Barry,<br /><br />Your not saying that the republicans are controlling oil are you ?<br /><br />I mean i wish it were that simple. Than each election cycle we could be sure of a republican victory. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Ted, I see great minds think alike <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Hey Scott - go back and read what I wrote. I didn't say that Mark Foley worries me more than a terrorist attack. I said guys like him. Mark Foley isn't the only pedophile in America.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>Dan,<br /><br />Sorry i misunderstood. But under the current topic his name being thrown out made me assume that thats where you were going.<br /><br />But...... I still feel i have more control over my family's protection in regards to pedophiles than a planned/random terror attack.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>Oil companies don't set the price of oil. If you want to say OPEC is manipulating prices, I'd agree some. They have a mutual interest of keeping oil at a reasonable level as it will keep people--ALL people from looking for alternative fuel sources. I'm not sure they REALLY care who's in office as long as the checks keep coming....The US is the largest oil consumer--FOR NOW. That will change in the upcoming years. You would have to agree supply and demand forces on pricing from India and China have had SERIOUS effects on oil. And hmmm.....NO hurricanes, reduced consumption by American public might have made a dent in the pricing model too. I've even seen stories about that on other media outlets than the evil Fox network. And....while we're talking about the current administration's efforts to find alternative sources, I'm not sure what Clinton in 8 years or Jimmy Carter in 4 did to further the alternative fuel sources. Too many people have too much to gain by keeping the status quo--both Democrats AND Republicans......<br /><br />We have at least a couple energy traders in our midst.....everyone's harping about contributing to the board in the other thread....how bout some contributions.....?<br /><br />
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Scott- I don't know who is controlling what, but doesn't Dick Cheney have an awful lot of pull with Halliburton? Let's just say I don't trust how this secretive bunch of misfits operate. I don't know how they do it, but they find a way.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />Than i want in.<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /> <br />And if this is so.....Than i really want them looking out for me. I mean to pull off something that complex.<br /><br />Edit to add...<br /><br />Index Value: 12,011.73 <br />Trade Time: 4:03PM ET <br />Change: 19.05 (0.16%) <br />Prev Close: 11,992.68 <br />Open: 11,988.92 <br />Day's Range: 11966.91 - 12027.74 <br />52wk Range: 10,161.60 - 12,108.90 <br /><br />Boy those Bush tax cuts have been horrible. Please explain why the Dems want to roll those back and how that would make the country better. <br /><br />For me it goes beyond just the security issue. Even though that is the biggest.<br />
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Tom, I admit I don't know nearly as much about the world oil market as perhaps you do, but all the coincidences seem fishy to me. And I do know that China and India have had a huge affect on the world oil market, but certainly it can't be as dramatic in the last 5 years to make Oil prices jump from $20 to $70/barrell. IMO higher gas prices in the US are a good thing long term because it will make the consumer look for more fuel effecient vehicles and in turn force more R&D into alternafive fuels.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Twice Tom? How does that old saying go? "Fool me once..."<br /><br />What percentage of Chinese own a car today? Very small.<br />What percentage of Chinese will own a car in the near future? Probably still very small but %10 of 1.5 billion is quite a few cars.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I do not want to get into this political debate but there are a bunch of very ill-informed statements in this thread.<br /><br />The first of these is the naive assumption that oil costs naturally affect gas prices. They do not. The price of oil quoted every night on the news is a spot market price; what can you buy it for right then and there. The price of gas at the pump is dictated by the prices charged by the major oil refineries for delivery of their products. The actual gas at the pump today was purchased as crude oil some weeks or months before by the refiners from the extractors, who in turn purchased it even before that from the producers (if the company is vertically integrated, it may be a bunch of subsidiary transactions designed to strand profits outside the USA tax system; that is a story for another thread). If the spot price of oil jumps to $100 per barrel tomorrow based on, say, investor panic over a pipeline explosion or hurricane, the price of gas does not HAVE to jump correspondingly because the cost of the gas in the tank isn't affected by that event. The fact that it does jump is indicative only of price gouging by the refiners by virtue of their linking the price they charge service stations for their products to the spot market. The only way to prevent this gouging is to institute a windfall profits tax that discourages the refiners from using spot prices to jack up prices at the pump or by regulating what they can do when setting prices. And before the free-marketeers cry foul, I suggest they get over the asinine assumption that the market is free; it is an oligopolistic structure without meaningful competition. <br /><br />The other thing that the defenders of the status quo fail to account for is that the price of oil on the spot market is not necessarily directly tied to what the extracting companies pay for the oil they send here. The Saudis don't take hold of a nozzle and ask the major oil companies, China, etc., to place a bid on the product like at auction. They enter into contracts over long terms granting concessions to explore, develop and extract crude. There is all kinds of forward purchasing, hedging and other arcane betting done by the oil companies to limit their exposure to the swings of the market. I think a few of our board members are in that business and could better explain it. <br /><br />The other misstatement I see over and over is the treatment of oil prices as fact-based. No one can say why oil prices are where they are with any certainty. As with any other commodity, the price of oil on any given day represents only the sum of the "bets" of the buyers and sellers that day. Just like a card's "value" can swing wildly from auction to auction. <br /><br />The point that a lot of folks also miss is that because gas pricing is artificially tied to the market for oil it is possible for producing nations, oil companies, refiners and politicians in power to manipulate the gas prices in the USA virtually overnight. The real reason for the Iraq invasion (as explained in the Neo-Con position papers on Iraq and setting aside all the rhetorical niceties that the pols and their devoted followers mouth) was to prevent Hussein from further open efforts to use the world oil market to manipulate energy prices in the USA. Ditto for the attempted coup against Hugo Chavez; he was openly advocating for using Venezuela's position as the #2 reserve in OPEC to reprice oil on a market basket of currencies or Euros rather than in dollars. The same kind of manipulation has been used by the Bush administration. In 2004, for example, according to Bob Woodward, the Bush administration made a deal with the Saudis to open the spigots in advance of the election to try and dampen consumer anger over energy prices by lowering gas prices. I am not surprised at all that oil prices have relaxed lately; Bush and the Republicans have been very good to the oil companies and oil producing countries. In addition to their $120 billion a year in subsidies, tax breaks and credits, since Bush implemented his foreign policies, the value of the oil companies' proven reserves has risen by over 2 trillion dollars, their profits have broken all records, and the do-nothing congress has refused to consider a windfall profits tax. Do you think they want a change in leadership when it means an end to that giant sucking sound in your wallet? I think not. <br /><br />Can I prove a quid pro quo? No, but the inference is there.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Adam- thanks for that detailed and informed response. You just made me look a lot smarter.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Yeah so what?<br /><br />My recommendation is to treat the Oil Industry the way we treat the Electric Utility Industry. That is: as a Public Utility. Install the PUC in charge of pricing, make sure that shareholders get a reasonable return for their investments, and cut the crap. <br /><br />This gouging has been going on (heavily) since the 1970 oil crisis, which I believe was predicated on the passage of environmental regulation requiring the capture of refueling emissions.<br /><br />In any case, continuing to allow this industry to manipulate pricing will be a vote for continuing our experiences over the past several decades. It is time for the govt. entity which we established for this exact purpose to take control, imho.
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Good for you, Adam. I agree with just about everything in your post, particularly the use of thepetrodollar theory as an explanation for the war and the business in Venezuela.<br /><br />-Al
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>Warshaw:<br /><br />Paragraph 1 seems to state that oil prices are not the reason for high gas prices. Paragraph 4 states that the Saudi's dropped the price of oil so energy costs can go down before the election. Huh?
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Board member on fox news last night ??? very O/T
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Thanks Adam. And even though I still look dumb I knew I was right. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>
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