EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>PART I<br /><br />Provided here are the hi-lites from the resulting data acquired from the very popular EPDG<br /> Thread (362 posts) by Barry Arnold. Forum members' inputs exceeded 700 cards in the multiple<br /> surveys in this Thread which reflected several 1000's of cards in members' collections.<br /><br />1st..order of confirmation was that the El Principe de Gales T206 back is indeed a tough back to<br />acquire. Inputs from small and large T206 collections yielded only 1 in 100 cards (1%) that had<br /> the EPDG back.<br /><br />2nd..A subset of this survey developed....in that an EPDG back is not supposed to exist with any <br />T206 cards that are not in the 350 Series. And to this end, multiple surveys resulted in which<br /> possible T206 candidates in the "150-only" category were gradually eliminated as more inputs<br /> were provided.<br /><br />3rd....Also, in this process, the "Piedmont Primacy" theory was developed which identified certain<br /> 150/350 cards with exclusive Piedmont 350 backs (which have proven to be very scarce). This will<br /> be discussed in a subsequent post in this Thread.<br /><br />Shown here are the three remaining cards from this survey (and also other surveys) that still have<br /> not yielded any confirmed "350" backs. These 3 are Ames (hands/chest), Ewing, and Schulte (front<br /> view). Depicted with them are all their confirmed backs.<br /><br />We are still searching........does anyone have any 350 backs on these three cards ? <br /> <br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/aamewisch.jpg">

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>judd hamlin</b><p>New to the forum- missed on the EPdG thread, but let me throw my 2(06) cents in. I've informally tracked front/back combos for quite a while and can add that I've seen the Ames with a Piedmont 350, but no other 350's. I've also seen it with EPdG, Hindu and Old Mill. O-fer the Ewing and Schulte.<br /><br />Of my 500+ T206's, I have 25 EPdG's, most of which I grabbed in the 90's (mostly Sloate, Lipset, Doubleheaders/Wheat, Howard's and EPSCC) and have noticed that there are many fewer on the market in the last couple of years, and that they are becoming more dear as less are coming out of collectors' hands than are going in. In terms of series breakdown, my 25 are as follow: 150 only- 0; 150/350- 11; 350 only- 8; 350/460- 5; and 460 only- 1.<br /><br />I sent my list in to Bill Brown (if I did it right), but thought I'd add by back breakdown to help anyone else's research<br /><br />American Beauty 350 w/frame: 23<br />American Beauty 350 no frame: 4<br />American Beauty 460: 3<br />Broadleaf 350: 5<br />Broadleaf 460: 1<br /> To which a note- several years ago, at Ft. Washington (right after they moved) a dealer had a small stack (8-10) of Broadleaf 460's- I purchased a Snodgrass and an O'Leary. All the cards were VG or worse. Never saw that dealer or those Broadleafs again. I hope some of you grabbed those, or maybe even purchased the O'Leary from Barry Sloate.<br /><br />Carolina Bright: 7<br />Cycle 350: 32<br />Cycle 460: 6<br />Drum 350: 2 (Jackson, Sweeney-Bos.)<br />EPdg: 25<br />Hindu (brown): 30 (13 of which are SL's)<br />Lenox: 2 (Abbaticchio, M. Brown)<br />Old Mill: 23<br />Old Mill SL: 32<br />Piedmont 150: 33<br />Piedmont 350: 40<br />Piedmont 350-460(25): 9<br />Piedmont 350-460(42): 2<br />Polar Bear: 41<br />Sovereign 150: 24<br />Sovereign 350: 43<br />Sovereign 460: 7<br />Sweet Cap 150(25): 9<br />Sweet Cap 150(30): 13<br />Sweet Cap 150(649): 9<br />Sweet Cap 350(25): 10<br />Sweet Cap 350(30): 28<br />Sweet Cap 460(25): 1<br />Sweet Cap 460(30): 8<br />Sweet Cap 460(42): 2<br />Sweet Cap 460(OP): 5<br />Tolstoi: 19<br />Uzit: 1 (Steinfeldt)<br /><br />Hope this helps someone and I'll be happy to try and answer questions this might engender.<br />I would also like to see stats on Southern Leaguer breakdown by back- I've alsways thought it was 45% Piedmont, 50% Old Mill and about 5% Hindu, but the Hindu #s may be a little high from what I've seen over the last few years.

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>JUDD<br /><br />Very interesting to hear of your Ames with a P350 back. Also, do I understand that<br /> you have (or have seen) Ewing and Schulte with P350 backs ? And, can you positively<br />confirm these cards ?<br /><br />In the EPDG thread (and other surveys) no such backs for these cards have surfaced.<br />And, we are talking about a total sample of 5000 - 8000 T206's.<br /><br />Incidently, you can find the EPDG Thread (by Barry Arnold) on Page 6 of this Forum's<br /> listing (approx. in the middle of that page). You will find it very informative; if you<br /> are patient enough to read most of the 362 posts that are in it.<br /><br />TED Z. <br /><br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Hi Ted,<br />I think Judd's "O-fer" reference means that he has NOT seen Ewing or Schulte (Front View) in 350. I am not too surprised that he has seen Ames (Hands at Chest) in 350; I guess that leaves Ewing and Schulte (Front View) as the sole survivors among the 150-only candidates. The interesting thing about Ewing (which I'm sure has not escaped your attention) is that he IS available with EPDG; thus, if he is a 150-only subject it suggests that the known 150-only subjects (other than Wagner and Magie, of course) may be possible with EPDG. We should think about offering a bounty for Ewing and Schulte (Front View) in 350. I'd be willing to chip in. By the way, I like the graphic in your post.<br />Scot

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>I too am curious as to why the Ewing has a EPDG, but apparently no 350's. Does this card fall under the same category as the Nichols AB back?<br /><br />Lee

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Top drawer elucidative summary, TRex.<br />As we continue to digest the groundbreaking efforts of Scot Reader's work,while observing the formation of the T206 super set, <br />and the gradual unfolding of the PRIMACY OF PIEDMONT THEORY, we anticipate<br />discoveries are just around the corner.<br />Then a T206 scholarly monograph will be in order.<br />Right?! Ted et al.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />Barry<br /><br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>judd hamlin</b><p>That would, in fact, be no sightings of either with 350 backs. I do not have the Ames with the 350, but probably didn't think too much of it at the time I saw it, pre-VCBC, this site, etc.<br /><br />I'll also throw out the Hindu SL bit again- what is the consensus on population (not just graded) for these cards, and are some more "common" (read as less impossible) than others?

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>There was a dealer (Old timer, I forget who but with a really awful toupe and lousy prices that he did not bargain down; anyone else know?) with a book of hundreds of T206s, and he had several pages of EPDG.

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>JUDD<br /><br />Regarding the T206 So. Lgers with HINDU backs. Brian Weisner is the expert<br />on the availability of these particulat HINDU backs. Brian has noted that 37<br />of the 42 possible So Lgers exist with HINDU backs.<br /><br />Regarding this series with respect to Piedmont 350 and Old Mill (So.) backs,<br />all 48 cards in this series have either of these backs.<br /><br />I am sure Brian will respond and elaborate on this subject better than I can.<br /><br />T-Rex TED

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Adam- by your description it sounds like Irv Lerner.

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Millerhouse</b><p>Dear Ted,<br /><br />I notice that your depiction above is missing a Sovereign 150 back for Ewing. I have one. If you're interested, I could dig it out and forward a scan.<br /><br />Let me know.<br /><br />Dan

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>DAN M.<br /><br />No need for a scan on Ewing......until now I had not seen a Sov 150 back for him.<br />Although, I expected one to eventually show up.<br />Thanks much for this input, I will have to modify my graphic to include your input.<br /><br />TED Z

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>PART II<br /><br />Quite quickly, as the numerous inputs to the EPDG Thread were received, an interesting<br />pattern became evident. Certain cards that were primarily 150-Series cards on rare oc-<br />casions would show up with a Piedmont 350 back. But, never with a Sweet Caporal 350<br />or Sovereign 350 back. Multiple surveys, reflecting 1000's of different backs, confirmed<br /> this Piedmont exclusivity.<br /><br />This factor actually reinforced an earlier theory that the T206 designers first produced<br /> the Piedmont cards in each Series. This fact appears evident by considering the MAGIE<br />and Joe DOYLE errors. They exist only with Piedmont backs (as is simulated in the 1st<br /> picture here). We can only assume that both these errors were caught very early (the<br /> Doyle quicker than the Magie); and therefore, production of them did not get beyond<br /> the initial Piedmont press run. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/amageedoyle.jpg"><br /><br />There is a 3rd card in the T206 set that appears to have been printed with only Piedmont<br />backs and that is the Carl Lundgren (Cubs) card. However, the P350 version is quite rare.<br />Also, this card can be found with an EPDG back. However, this is an extremely rare card. <br />There are 6 more "150 Series" cards in the set that are short-printed exclusively with P350<br /> backs (no Sweet Caporal 350 or Sovereign 350) and these cards will be depicted in the<br /> forthcoming PART III post. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/aclundgren.jpg">

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I couldn't remember the name but I remembered that rug and the overpriced cards.

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Which cards are supected of being in the Pied 350 only category?<br /><br />Lee

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>PART III<br /><br />Besides Carl Lundgren (Cubs), there are six additional 150/350 cards in the T206<br />set that appear only with Piedmont 350 backs. And, I find this very interesting,<br />since these 6 cards are available in the 150 Series with Piedmont, Sweet Caporal,<br />and Sovereign backs. Anyhow, there is a logical explanation for these particular<br />cards not fully continuing in the 350 Series; and, Scot Reader (in his book) details<br />these players' trades, or transfers to Minor Lge. status during 1909-10.<br /><br />Furthermore, if one is trying to complete a "Super Set", or just collect all the front/back<br /> permutations with just Piedmont cards; they will have a tough time finding these six<br /> P350 cards. They are definitely "short-printed" and surveys have indicated that their<br />availability is a mere 2% of the 150/350 population of any one of these 6 cards.<br /><br />Shown here are these six....Bill Dahlen (Boston)....Bob Ganley....Tom Jones (St. Louis)<br />Ed Karger....Vive Lindaman....George Mullin (throwing).<br /><br />Occasionally, these six cards are found with either a HINDU or EPDG back. Also, an<br /> OLD MILL back is possible, but very, very rarely.<br />But, so far no Sweet Caporal 350 or Sovereign 350 backs have been found.<br /> <br />So, once again guys....check-out these 6 cards in your T206 collections and let's see<br /> what backs you have ? <br /> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/a6p350.jpg">

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>I think might be time to check on Sweet Cap 350 onlys from Bill's Data to date. There appear to be cards that are Sweet Cap 350 only.<br /><br />Lee

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>LEE B.<br /><br />I have never looked into the possibility of SC "350-only" cards. But, I will remind<br /> you that I am near completion of my 520 card "Piedmont-only" set (minus Wagner<br /> and Plank) and I have not come across any missing Piedmont card in this entire<br /> run of T206's. But, an educated guess is that if you tried to complete a T206 set<br /> of only Sweet Caporal backs you would need approx. 510 cards (minus Wagner &<br /> Plank) . <br /><br />But you seem to be skeptical about what I am saying; so, if you combine all the data<br />in Scot Reader's extensive survey and the data in Bill's Spread Sheet and the data we<br /> have tabulated in Barry Arnold's EPDG Thread, you will see that for every Sweet Caporal<br /> input there is a corresponding Piedmont input for a given card. But, the reverse is not<br /> true for about a dozen cards that are P150 or P350 (but no SC or Sov counterparts).

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p>Hi Ted,<br /> A Sweet Cap set would be a lot less than 510. No Southern Leaguers, that's 48 less in one shot..... Be well Brian

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>BRIAN W.<br /><br />It's been a long day.....what can I say.....except you are so right.<br />When I was typing that 510 number, something in the back of my<br /> mind was telling me....it's incorrect.<br /><br />So.....510 - 48 = 462 cards<br /><br />I have started this "T206 craze" with an "Piedmont-only" set, and at this<br />point, I am just 29 cards shy of completing it<br /><br />It's obvious then, that an "Sweet Caporal-only" set is easier to complete.<br /><br />So....I dare someone to try it.<br /><br />T-Rex TED

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Hey guys....I guess you are getting tired of T206 Surveys ?<br /><br />I don't blame you.....but how about just one more ?<br /><br />Please check-out these six T206 (150/350) cards in your sets and give me your inputs<br />regarding their backs.<br /><br />Bill Dahlen (Boston)<br /><br />Bob Ganley<br /><br />Tom Jones (St Louis)<br /><br />Ed Karger<br /><br />Vive Lindaman<br /><br />George Mullin (throwing-HORIZ.)<br /><br /><br />Thanks for your time and effort, it is appreciated.....T-Rex TED<br /><br /><br /><br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Mullin horiz - SC150 Fact 30 2nd Dist NY

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>steve yawitz</b><p>Bill Dahlen (Boston) - SC 150/30<br />Tom Jones (St Louis) - SC 150/649<br />Vive Lindaman - PD 150 x 2<br><br><a href="http://imageevent.com/yawie99" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://imageevent.com/yawie99</a>

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>TRex.<br /> there's no way I'll ever get tired of this one!!!!<br /><br />ganley sweet cap 150 fac.25<br /><br />lindaman epdg<br /><br />karger pied 150<br /><br /><br />all the best,<br /><br />barry

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p>Ted<br /><br />As Barry said I'll never get tired of these T206 survey's<br /><br />Dahlen P150 SC150<br />Ganley P150 SC150<br />Jones P150 Hindu<br />Karger P350 SC150<br />Lindaman P150 SC150<br />Mullin P350 EPDG<br /><br><br>Drew

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ron</b><p>Ted, This is what I have,<br />Dahlen P150 fac 25<br />Ganley P150 fac 25<br />Jones P150 fac 25<br />Karger sc150 fac 25<br />Lindaman p150 fac 25 hindu<br />Mullin sc 150<br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Mike (18colt)</b><p>Dahlen (Boston) -- Hindu<br />Ganley -- Piedmont 150<br />Jones -- SC 150<br />Karger -- SC 150<br />Lindaman -- Piedmont 150<br />Mullin -- Piedmont 150<br /><br />Mike

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>OK, here are my T206's for this survey......<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)....P150, P150, P150, HINDU<br /><br />Ganley................P150, P150<br /><br />Jones (St Louis)....P150, P150<br /><br />Karger.................P150, P150<br /><br />Lindaman.............P150, P150, P150, P150, EPDG<br /><br />Mullin (horiz).........P150, Sov150

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>judd hamlin</b><p>Based upon my recording of front/back combos here's what I've seen for the 6:<br /><br />Dahlen P150, Sov150, SC150(30), EPdG<br />Ganley P150, SC150(30), EPdG, Hin<br />Jones (STL) P150, Sov150, SC150(25) + (649), EPdG, Hin<br />Karger P150, Sov150, SC150(30)<br />Lindaman P150, SC150(30), Hin<br />Mullin (Hor) P150, Sov150, SC150(25) + (30), EPdG

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Art M.</b><p>Here is what I have for the six card T206 survey...<br /><br />Bill Dahlen (Boston) - P150<br />Bob Ganley - sc150 30, p150, p150<br />Tom Jones (St Louis) - p150, sc150 30, sc150 30<br />Ed Karger - p150, p150, sc150 30<br />Vive Lindaman - sov150, p150<br />George Mullin (throwing-HORIZ.) - p150, p350, epdg (2), sov150 (2), sc150 25, sc150 30 (3)<br /><br />Art M.<br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanx for your inputs guys and gals......<br /><br />The total count of inputs so far is 89 for these 6 cards.<br /><br />WOW.....only 3 reported Piedmont 350 backs (Karger and 2 - Mullin's).<br /><br />So far this is slightly higher than the 2% figure I noted above.<br /><br />But, we need more inputs on these 6 cards.....come on all you T206 guys,<br />post your inputs ?<br /><br />T-Rex TED

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>tdc</b><p>Have the following:<br /><br />Bill Dahlen (Boston) - P350<br />Bob Ganley - sc150 30<br /><br /><br />thanks,<br /><br />tdc

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Bill</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />Here are the cards that I have:<br /><br />Dahlen Boston Piedmont 150<br />Ganley Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 30<br />Jones Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 30, Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649<br />Karger Piedmont 150<br />Lindaman Piedmont 150<br />Mullin Throwing Piedmont 150<br /><br />The "Super Set" data has shown Piedmont 350 for all of the cards, except the Lindaman, and Lindaman Piedmont 350 just recently sold on ebay. No Sweet Caporal 350 or Sovereign 350 have been seen.<br /><br />What about Pasorius? Haven't seen a 350 series card.<br /><br />Bill

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Bill and Scot Reader<br /><br />I have no info on Pastorius beyond the 150-Series. Have we overlooked him ?<br /><br />He had a very short Major Lge. career (1906-1909); and, only a few games in 1909.<br /> Therefore, can we conclude that the T206 designers did not extend him into the 350 Series ?<br /><br />But, Pastorious has always been classified as a 150/350 card. So, can we anticipate that<br /> he may eventually appear as a P350 (only) card ?<br /><br />We need to include him in this survey.<br /><br />Thanks....for any info on this card......T-Rex TED<br /><br />P.S....Bill I have a few more backs to give you that are not on your current SS.

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Hi T 206 scholars!<br /><br />My Pastorius is 150 Piedmont.<br /><br />The super set is turning out to be a fabulous data bank, isn't it?!<br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Barry<br /> Ther are 2 cards of Pastorius with Sweet Cap 350's for sale right now. Be well Brian<br /><br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Bill</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />The "Super Set" is has over 3500 different backs now. I just input a Pastorius 350 Piedmont. I emailed the collector that submitted it to confirm that the data was correct. Here is a list using the data gaithered on the "Super Set":<br /><br />150/350 Series with no cards in the 350 Series<br />Ames Hands at Chest<br />Ewing<br />Hinchman Cleveland<br />Schulte Front View<br /><br />150/350 Series with only Piedmont 350 <br />Beaumont<br />Chase Pink<br />Cobb Green Background<br />Conroy Fielding<br />Criger<br />Dahlen Boston<br />Davis Chicago<br />Ganley<br />Jones, Tom<br />Karger<br />Lundgren<br />Mullin Throwing<br />Pastorius<br />Shaw St. Louis<br />Waddell Throwing<br />White Portrait<br /><br />Keep the data coming. Bill

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>BRIAN W.<br /><br />I just sampled 10 T206 Pastorious cards and their backs are......5 - P150, 4 - SC150<br /> and an OLD MILL. The OLD MILL implies there must be a "350" somewhere.<br /><br />Where did you find the 2 - SC350's ?<br /><br />T-Rex TED

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> T206.com. Busy Brian

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>J Hull</b><p>Ted,<br />Here's what I have:<br /> <br /> Dahlen (Bos): P150<br /><br /> Ganley: P150<br /><br /> Jones (Stl): P150<br /><br /> Karger: P150, P150<br /><br /> Lindaman: P150, P150<br /><br /> Mullin (horiz): P150<br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>joe</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />Mullin Hor- SOV 150.<br /><br />Joe<br><br>Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>tdc</b><p>ted,<br />I have the following additional cards to add to your survey (along with the Dahlen,Boston P350)<br /><br />Ewing - P150<br />Hinchman Cleveland - SC150 and P150<br /><br />Cobb Green Background - SC150<br />Criger - P350<br />Davis Chicago - P150<br />Ganley - SC150<br />Pastorius - P150<br />Shaw St. Louis - P150<br />White Portrait - SC150 and P350<br /><br />Hope that helps<br /><br />TDC<br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>BILL B.<br /><br />P350's for Criger and Hinchman are reported here....tdc.<br /><br />Brian W reported a Tom Jones P350 in the EPDG thread.<br /><br />Scot R. reported a Dahlen P350 in the EPDG thread.<br /><br />I have seen Cobb (green) with P350 on ebay, recently.<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs) was also reported in the EPDG thread.<br /><br /><br />Please add these new cards from me to your SS......<br /><br />Matty (white cap)....SC350/30<br /><br />Bradley (port)..........P350<br /><br />H. Davis..................HINDU<br /><br />Joe Dunn.................EPDG<br /><br />T-Rex TED

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Please check-out these six T206 (150/350) cards in your sets and give me your inputs<br />regarding their backs.<br /><br />Player............150-type......HINDU......EPDG......P350<br /><br />Bill Dahlen.............13............2............1... .........1<br /> (Boston)<br /><br />Bob Ganley............17............1............1.... ........0<br /><br /><br />Tom Jones.............17............2............1.... ........0<br /> (St Louis)<br /><br />Ed Karger..............14.............0............0. ...........1<br /><br /><br />Vive Lindaman........16.............1............2..... .......0<br /><br /><br />George Mullin..........19............0............4...... ......2<br /> (throw-Horiz)<br /><br />Total # of inputs = 115<br /><br />Total # of P350 = 4<br /><br />Let's have some more back inputs, guys.....we really want to see if these special T206's<br /> exist with Sov 350 or Sweet Caporal 350 backs.....?

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>BRIAN W.<br /><br />Ole Buddy....we are waiting for your inputs on these 6 cards......?<br /><br />I am certain you have at least a few new ones to add....and the "only" P350 of<br /> Tom Jones that has been reported.<br /><br />T-Rex TED<br /><br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> Yes, I have the 350 Piedmont Jones and probably a few of the others,but haven't had time to look. I'll try tonight. Be well Brian

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />I recently owned a Ganley with Piedmont 350. The only reason I bought it was because it had a 350 back and I had never before seen Ganley with a 350 back. It was F-G and I sold it on eBay for $20 earlier this year before I knew anybody else cared about 150/350 subjects who are difficult to find with 350 backs. Now I regret it.<br /><br />Of course, we all recently saw Lindaman with a Piedmont 350 back at auction.<br /><br />And we all know Brian W. has Jones (St. Louis) with a Piedmont 350 back.<br /><br />So, correct me if I am wrong, but aside from Ewing and Schulte (Front View), who have not yet been confirmed with any 350 back, the only subject conventionally thought to be a 150/350 subject who nobody seems to have yet seen with a Piedmont 350 back is Wilhelm (Hands at Chest). I expect he will turn up in Piedmont 350 with sufficient looking.<br /><br />Scot

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>BRIAN<br /><br />I have included your Tom Jones (P350) in the updated tabulation.<br /><br />SCOT<br /><br />I am including your Ganley (P350); and, the Lindaman (P350) you reported in the<br /> EPDG thread in the updated tabulation.<br /><br />Also, I am adding Wilhelm (Hands at chest) as an additional card to this survey. I<br /> will start it off with the 4 cards of him that I currently have (all 4 are P150).<br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/awilhelm.jpg">

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Hi Trex,<br /><br />my wilhelm (hands at chest) is a P150.<br /><br />you are amazingly conscientious and consistent in keeping tabs on the<br />various pieces of this most interesting 'back puzzle.'<br />many thanks<br /><br />and to all the T206 scholars<br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /><br />Bill Dahlen Bos Hindu, Piedmont 150<br /><br />Bob Ganley Hindu Piedmont 150<br /><br />Tom Jones Hindu Piedmont 150, 350 Sweet Cap 150, 649<br /><br />Ed Karger Piedmont 150<br /><br />Vive Lindaman Piedmont 150<br /><br />George Mullin Piedmont 150<br /><br />Wilhelm Hindu, Sweet cap 150, 649<br /><br /><br /><br /> Sorry no more 350 rabbits in my hat. Be well Brian

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Updated 6/14 and added Wilhelm to the list. <br /><br />Please check-out these seven T206 (150/350) cards in your sets and give me your inputs<br />regarding their backs.<br /><br />Player............150-type......HINDU......EPDG......P350.........SC350. ......Sov350<br /><br />Bill Dahlen.............14............3............1... .........1<br />(Boston)<br /><br />Bob Ganley............18............2............1.... ........1<br /><br /><br />Tom Jones.............20............3............1.... ........1<br />(St Louis)<br /><br />Ed Karger..............15.............0............0. ...........1<br /><br /><br />Vive Lindaman........17.............1............2..... .......1<br /><br /><br />George Mullin..........20............0............4...... ......2<br />(throw-Horiz)<br /><br />Wilhelm..................13............1......... ...0............0...........1<br /> (hands at chest)<br /><br />Total # of inputs = 144<br /><br />Total # of P350 = 7......and Wilhelm SC350 = 1<br /><br />Come on you T206 afficiandos....we need your contributions (it doesn't cost you anything)<br /> to this SURVEY to see if these particular T206's have Sov 350 or Sweet Caporal 350 backs ? ?<br /><br /><br />Edited to add inputs from BARRY and BRIAN <br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> Check with David Seaborn(Old Oriole), as he sold a large group of Sovereign's last year and may still have some pictures. Be well Brian

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>How do I contact David ?<br /><br />I am interested....as my next project, upon completing the PIEDMONT-only set,<br />may be a SOVEREIGN-only set.<br /><br />TED Z

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Dave Seaborn</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />Brian is right (good memory Brian), I had a very large group of T206 Sovereigns last year. Let me know what info you need, I'll try to see what I can dig up. You can put it here or send a more detailed message if you like (oldorioles@aol.com).<br /><br />Dave

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Dave....thanks for responding here.<br /><br />Do I know you from the Philly Show ?<br /><br />I am considering starting a Survey on Sovereign backs, similar to the EPDG survey.<br />This is possibly a lead-in to starting a SOVEREIGN-only set of T206's.<br /><br />I am 26 cards shy of completing a 518 card PIEDMONT-only set. So, I need a new<br />challenge.<br /><br />Ted Z<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>steve yawitz</b><p>Wilhelm SC 150/30<br /><br><br><a href="http://imageevent.com/yawie99" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://imageevent.com/yawie99</a>

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Posted By: <b>David Seaborn</b><p>Ted-<br /><br />I'm about to send an email to you, let me know if it's helpful...

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>DAVID S<br /><br />Received your data and I am studying it.....thanks.<br /><br />How about it guys......any more inputs on these 7 - T206's of interest ?<br /><br />TED Z

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>I just acquired a the last two Lindaman cards I needed to complete all the possible backs<br />that are available for this particular T206. This is a subset of my T206 collection and I will<br /> try to continue this very interesting challenge for quite a few cards in this set.<br /><br />Just another way of collecting T206's that I thought you T206 guys might find satisfying.<br /><br />T-Rex TED <br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/alindamanb.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>congrats, TRex!<br />they look great.<br /><br />i'm going to go pull out my Lindaman EPDG so my 'green with envy' will diminish at least a bit. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br />Congrats on getting all the possible Lindamans.<br />Any sign of Ewing or Schulte with 350 yet?<br />Scot

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Have ever came up with a thoery as to when the EPDG were printed? with the Ewing EPDG and no 350's what doesthis tell us?<br /><br />Lee<br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p>Hi Ted<br />Nice display of the Lindaman cards.<br /><br><br>Drew

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>It's my understanding that Scot R. (in his document) and Brian W. (in posts) both have<br />addressed when EPDG backs were first introduced. That EPDG's were simultaneously<br /> introduced at the very beginning of the 350 Series cards.<br /><br />The Ewing card (with several EPDG backs) appears to be an exception to this "rule",<br /> as no 350 Series back have been reported (yet) in three different surveys.<br />Be patient....as the Tom Jones and Vive Lindaman cards have proven (later rather<br />than sooner) a Piedmont 350 back will eventually surface for Ewing.<br /><br />T-Rex TED

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Lee,<br /><br />It may be that EPDG printing started early on (earlier than, for example, Old Mill) and that at least some of the well-known 150-only subjects [e.g. Brown (Cubs on Shirt), Burch (Batting), Evers (Blue Sky), etc.] will eventually surface with the EPDG back. I base this on the Net54 Ewing survey that revealed him with EPDG and the fact that my own eBay survey data shows one instance of Brown (Cubs on Shirt) with EPDG--although admittedly I could have recorded this wrong or it may have come from an ebay listing that included the wrong back scan.<br /><br />If you'll indulge wild speculation, perhaps EPDG printing started AFTER Hindu, Piedmont 150, Soveriegn 150 and Sweet Cap 150 but BEFORE the 350 series printing, leading to a very short printing of at least some of the 150-only subjects with EPDG.<br /><br />Of course, it may be that my Brown (Cubs on Shirt) data point is wrong and that Ewing surfaces with Piedmont 350, in which case Ted's above analysis carries the day.<br /><br />Scot

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Lee's question reminds me that in your Spread Sheet....you show an EPDG back<br />for Mordecai Brown (Cubs)....a 150-only card. This unusual card really throws a <br />"monkey-wrench" into all our theories ?<br /><br />Do we have an explanation for this ?<br /><br />I ask this because of the Ewing card, which possibly there is no 350 card of him.<br /><br />TED Z<br />

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>SCOT R.<br /><br />Here we are 2000 miles apart and our minds are on the same "wave length".....<br />simultaneously.<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />See my post just above your query, which I have edited.<br /><br />I see two possibilities:<br /><br />1. Conventional wisdom holds: My eBay survey data point is wrong and Ewing exists with 350. This means EPDG print began with 350.<br /><br />2. Conventional wisdom is wrong: My eBay survey data point is correct and Ewing does not exist with 350. This means EPDG print began before 350.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Updated 9/25/2006 <br /><br />Please check-out these seven T206 (150/350) cards in your sets and give me your inputs<br />regarding their backs.<br /><br />Player............150-type......HINDU......EPDG......P350.........SC350. ......Sov350<br /><br />Bill Dahlen.............18............3............1... .........1<br />(Boston)<br /><br />Bob Ganley............21............2............1.... ........1<br /><br /><br />Tom Jones.............22............3............2.... ........1<br />(St Louis)<br /><br />Ed Karger..............16.............0............0. ...........2<br /><br /><br />Vive Lindaman........21.............1............3..... .......2<br /><br /><br />George Mullin..........21............0............4...... ......2<br />(throw-Horiz)<br /><br />Wilhelm..................17............1......... ...0............0...........1<br />(hands at chest)<br /><br />Total # of inputs = 167<br /><br />Total # of P350 = 9......and Wilhelm SC350 = 1

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Here is a list of cards that have 150 cards and only Sweet caps in the 350 series from Bill's data. Does anyone have any of these cards in 350 other than Sweet Cap?<br /><br />Bradley Port<br />H. Davis<br />Doolin<br />Gibson<br />Griffith Port<br />Hahn<br />Herzog NY<br />Lajoie, throwing<br />Lobert<br />McQuillan, throwing<br /><br />do we have others out there?<br /><br />lee

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>LEE B<br /><br />We have gone through this exercise before on Bill Brown's recent Thread.<br /><br />1st....I have the following P350 backs in my all-Piedmont set:<br /><br />Bradley (port)<br />H.Davis<br />Gibson<br />Lobert<br /><br />2nd.....Scot Reader's Survey shows P350 backs for.....<br /><br />Doolin (port)<br />Griffith (port)<br />Hahn<br />Herzog<br />Lajoie (throwing)<br />McQuillan (ball/hand)<br /><br /><br />Lee.....I am still providing front/back inputs to Bill Brown.<br /><br />But, more significantly, you cannot keep using his Spread Sheet as the final<br />word on these T206 backs. At this point, Bill's SS has only 3000-4000 samples.<br />The cumulative total of three other survey's exceeds 20,000 cards.<br /><br />T-Rex TED<br /> <br />

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Sorry Ted,<br /><br />I tried to find any other thread that had the info in it and coould not. <br /><br />Sorry to tread on YOUR thread, it will not happen again. I will no longer be responding. Good luck with your research.<br /><br />I believe that Bill has good close to 20,000 examples just 3,000 unique ones. That is where my questions arise.<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>LEE B<br /><br />No problem guy.....and don't be apologetic about it. You certainly brought to our<br />attention a valid question regarding the backs on some of these 150/350 Series<br />T206's.<br /><br />We still have not seen a Wilhelm (arms at chest) P350. But, as you observed there<br />exists an SC350 version of him. I was hoping you would start a new survey Thread.<br /><br />I'm not trying to be contentious, Lee. After all these years we are really starting to<br /> unravel some of the mysteries of this set. First, we have Bill Heitman to thank for<br />his precedent-setting book; and recently, Scot Reader's great document.<br /><br />Lee....don't stop posting here.....you are keeping me honest, really.<br /><br />T-Rex TED<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p>Hi Lee<br /><br />I have a Herzog NY with a Piedmont 350 back.<br><br>Drew

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I just went through the Sovereign collection and all the backs you surveyed were Sovereign 150, except for Jones which was Piedmont 350. So no new light shed.

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Barry Arnold and Net54 T206 guys<br /><br />Found this neat advertisement this past weekend in a nearby antique store.<br />No reference to BB cards, as this adv. preceded the T206 set issue by a year. <br /><br />El Principe de Gales first started producing Cigars in the mid 1800's.<br /><br />T-Rex TED<br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/aadvepdg.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>hi trex<br /><br />many thanks for the display of this beauty!<br />as you indicated to Lee, the breadth and depth of these recent 206 backs<br />discussions continue to be most illuminative, no matter what tributary we<br />find ourselves travelling.<br />again, a great ride!<br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br /><br />There is a Wilhelm (Hands at Chest) with a Piedmont 350 back on ebay right now. See link below:<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/T-206-KAISER-WILHELM-BROOKLY-DODGERS-PIEDMOND-BRAND_W0QQitemZ300034120024QQihZ020QQcategoryZ8684 0QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/T-206-KAISER-WILHELM-BROOKLY-DODGERS-PIEDMOND-BRAND_W0QQitemZ300034120024QQihZ020QQcategoryZ8684 0QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a><br /><br />Is that the last of the 150/350s that hadn't previously surfaced with Piedmont 350?<br /><br />Scot

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks SCOT<br /><br />Sooner or later, I knew a P350 back for this card would surface....I, too found<br />one, the link is posted below. Suddenly, two of them, when for a long time we<br />did not see any.<br /><br />More significantly, we still have 3 cards that have not really been confirmed<br />as 150/350 cards.<br /><br />And, also the six 150/350 cards, that I contend exist only with P350 backs,<br /> have not surfaced with any other Tobacco brand backs in the 350 Series.<br /><br />But, once again, I think we have exhausted interest in these surveys.<br />Whatever.....I will be posting another T-card controversy sometime soon.<br /><br />T-Rex TED<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Kaiser-Wilhelm-Hands-at-Chest-Brooklyn-SGC-30_W0QQitemZ300033302832QQihZ020QQcategoryZ57993QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Kaiser-Wilhelm-Hands-at-Chest-Brooklyn-SGC-30_W0QQitemZ300033302832QQihZ020QQcategoryZ57993QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a> <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Mike Ernst</b><p>Just getting caught up on things after a summer of Corvetting rather than baseball carding.<br />Of the 7 cards in question, 6 are 150-variety. Wilhelm, hands at chest is a Piedmont 350.<br />So now there are three of them very recently reported.