This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>Leon, This is in no way an insult to you and how you run this board as I do feel that you do a great job and work hard at making it a good place for information. With that being said in one post Leon said how much he would like some of the other collectors with incredible collections to post on here. Well the fact is they do not and will not post in forums because it opens them up to personal attacks like Jim has been opened up to. Why? Because he mentioned something about the value of cards. What is wrong with that? We all know the value of these things. Heck even Jay started a post about how strip cards are not cheap anymore. That has to do with value. TBOB started one not long ago about how hot caramel cards were which had alot to do with value of cards. Now I don't bring this up to in anyway criticize those board members for that but I just don't understand why Jim gets attacked when he does it. I guess my main point is this, if we as a board would like it to grow and be the best it can be it would be nice to cut down on the personal attacks and respect people's different opinions instead of attacking them like they are not entitled to think differently. To those people who attack Jim for talking value, we all think about value at some point. We can collect because we love it but we all know the value and we ALL are "guilty" of talking about the value of vintage cards at some point. All of us! Not just Jim. In closing I would just like to say there are more important things to worry about in this country than to have a fight over who is more of a true collector on this board. We all either lurk here or post here because we enjoy old cards. So I would like to challenge all board members to clean things up a little with less personal attacks so we could show some of these great collectors what a friendly board we can be and maybe, just maybe we could get a couple of them to post here and share their collections or information with us.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>There may be a little class warfare going on here. The majority of the contributors on this board collect within a reasonable budget, and with vintage card prices soaring they may begin to feel that they are being pinched out. And the other wealthy collectors continue to purchase rare cards unabated. This may be one reason there is some resentment on the board. That is just the way things are and always will be. Maybe it would be better for those blessed with very deep pockets to put less emphasis on the values of some of these cards that only they can afford. But don't fret- when it soon costs the price of an E107 HOFer to fill up a tank of gas, it will all even out (one way or the other).

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>this is a great board and i frequent it numerous times daily.yes sometimes it does get a little touchy,but leon does not allow personnel attacks.disagreements are a part of life and they are always going to happen,even it the vintage baseball card world!

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Chris and Barry,<br /><br />Agree with all your points.<br /><br />There are a lot of graded card collectors(some occasional posters) who have e-mailed me the past 2-3 weeks asking me if I was sure I knew what I was doing as any post I made I would open myself up to attack by certain named participants. Sure enough it happened--all I had to do was mention the value of another persons collection to support my point that the most valuable collections were those of graded card collectors--namely Merkel, Louchios and Fogel and the crazed responses started.<br /><br />Regardless, I plan to continue to post on topics like this and will not be so reserved in responding next time. <br /><br />Too bad because I think this board has more to offer than any I have seen but a number of collectors just don't want to participate in something where they are open to attack.<br /><br />Jim

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- To take it a step further there is of course a great deal of inequality in this country- just take a look at the wretched video coming out of the Gulf Coast and recognize immediately that not every strata of society has suffered that devastation equally. And there will always be resentment from those who have less. Hal Lewis is a friend and someone whom I have great respect for- he has done things for me that are beyond what I would have expected from anyone. But when he goes on the board to show off his purchase of a 100K+ Wagner- and he has every right to do it and be proud of it- it's going to rattle a few collectors who have to forsake a vintage card because it just cost them $50 to fill up their gas tank. I think this disparity is one of the main reasons that collectors are feuding on this board- the "have nots" are getting tired of seeing what the "haves" recently added to their already vast collections. You have every right to discuss some of the country's great collections but it will cause some hard feelings and that's just the way it is. It's no fault of yours. It's just America.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />Very astute observations and I agree completely.<br /><br />Jim

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Daniel Bretta</b><p>I have to say that I pretty much stopped posting here because some people are rather rude. I posted a picture to imageshack where people can rate the picture and some people rated the picture a 1 out of 10. I doubt that I will ever share anything from my collection ever again on this forum. Most people here have been helpful with my questions and I may continue to lurk but why put in the effort if you're only going to get negativity.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>edited to remove post suggesting that Jim share more of his collection with us... at the request of Mr. Vargha.<br /><br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>Any forum with a substantial number of people will fall to this, one way or another. There's no way around it; it's being human unfortunately. While most of the folks on here can work through things in a mature fashion, occasionally Leon has to step in and remove someone.<br /><br />Little tiffs and jabs shouldn't keep anyone from enjoying this board. We all collect because we love cards, even though we may do it in different ways.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Dan, I'm sorry about your experience, that really sucks. And Barry is right: there is resentment and people with expensive cards do feel a bit leery about showing them here because of that hidden and not so hidden bad feelings directed at them. I don't think Jim's motives were impure, I just think he collects differently than others on this board. I also don't think some of the hostile reactions were surprising either: after all, anyone who posts here has baseball cards as a top passion, so when they see cards that others' have that they cannot afford it does tend to make them jealous. I feel the same way when I see a card I can't have; it's just human nature. And considering the state of the world right now, perhaps we could be a bit more tolerant of each other?

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>I am very opinionated and thus probably disliked by as high a % of board members as anyone, but I post pictures all the time and very rarely get insulted.<br /><br />Chris, you wrote: <br /><br />&lt;&lt;Well the fact is they do not and will not post in forums because it opens them up to personal attacks like Jim has been opened up to. Why? Because he mentioned something about the value of cards. What is wrong with that?&gt;&gt;<br /><br />You just mixed apples and oranges - Jim was attacked because someone disagreed with his assessment of collection values - what does that have to do with his posting pictures of his collection? Also, posting in a public forum opens ANYONE up to attacks, regardless of their net worth or the value of their collection - I think we have a good representation of the "social strata" posting here, but of course there are plenty of wealthy collectors, "mid-size" collectors, AND collectors like myself who post here.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p> I havent chimed in on any of these posts because I am relatively new here. I can tell you I collect mid grade T206's and have become very passionate about them. When I see a fellow board member aquire a great card, I am happy for them, not jealous. Its their passion and I have mine. I just look forward to the next card I would like to buy. If every time someone aquired more than me in life and I was jealous, I'd go through life as a bitter person. I'm happy with what I have and love seeing everyone elses prizes. Not taking sides at all in the price verses collector thing, but I am in awe of JC's graded collection, as I am in awe of alot of collections on this site. in fact, I love seeing everyones collection. Some day I'll post mine and someone might start collecting vintage because of it. Just my 2 cents.<br><br>Moral Values " What would you do if no one was looking? Only you would know" Instilled in me by James W. Brennan Sr.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p>Geez Dave, it sure didn't take you long to be an ass on this thread. I realize that Leon will probably delete this post (and rightly so) but it needed to be said.<br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>At first I thought I didn't like all the controversy on this board...I didn't like some of the back and forth stuff between posters. But then I realized - hey, I wouldn't visit this board as often as I do if it weren't for these type of threads! Maybe I'd visit a couple of times a week, but because of these threads, I click on this site at least 10 times a day. Controversy brings eyeballs. Is that good or bad? Only the site owners can decide what they want.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I can honestly say that I have never attacked anyone becuase of jealousy of what they have in their collection or how much it is worth. If that were the case, I would be constaly attacking Leon, Hal, Jay Miller and others whose collections I admire. <br /><br />My problem with Jim and his is ilk is his attitude. He comes across as very elitist and very condescending. It may not be intentional, but that is the way he comes across to me and many others on the board. For evrey person that has come to Jim's support on this board, I've gotten 10 emails from people telling me they wish they had the nerve to say the things I do. The most common comment I've heard about Jim is that he has a mild form of AJM.<br /><br />Like Scott, I'm not afraid to speak my mind. This keeps me from winning any popularity contests around here, but I can live with myeself because I am honest with my opinions and it's a great way to relieve any pent up stress rather than going over to Lee's place and giving him a beating. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14> <br /><br />I have nothing against talk about money here when it involves escalating prices, dropping values, etc. I do have a problem when someone's sole fixation is the value of other people's collections. That is pretty much what CU board and the registry is for. If you are going to come here, ask about that topic and then flat out dismiss raw cards, then why bother?<br /><br />Jim, I really have a hard time believing that these heavy hitters, whose name you seem to love to mention every chance you get, are scared to post here. These are supposed to be strong, successful men. Why in the world would they be intimidated by fellow card collectors. Seems to be a charater flaw that wouldn't be condusive to success in personal life.<br /><br />Chris, this place really is a friendly place, but if you come in here like a bull in a china shop, don't expect a warm welcome.<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>hrbaker</b><p>Passionate people are passionate about what they are passionate about! I think that's a tautology but I know it is true. Vintage card collectors are no different. It's an open forum for the most part and you can chose to read and respond to what you like. If you post an opinion (and certainly if you post it as fact) you can expect a response from passionate people, pro or con. Vintage cards are a hobby for most of us and a business/hobby for the rest. No one is entitled to own or collect anything. If you can afford it and chose to spend your money on it - great! If there is something you want but can't afford - tuff darts. That's fact of life that applies to most anything. I have several nice cards I have owned for a long time that if I had to buy them today they woud be out of my range. Does that make me mad, jealous, envious? No, it's a fact of life, much like a larger house, nicer car, etc. I try to keep this love of mine in the realm of a hobby and out of the peeing contest folder. I celebrate with people who can acquire great cards that they want and if they choose to look at them as both a hobbyist and an investor - so what. I have a limited amount of income that I chose to devote to my hobby, I have to make my choices based on that. The fact that there may be some things I would like to have (read: not need to have) and chose not buy becuase of price has nothing to do with anybody else and what they do.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I must admit that in some ways, I have been priced out of the recent market and would love to share recent purchases if I in fact had some recent purchases. I have no resentment to those who have the funds to be able to purchase high priced cards. When someone purchases a high money card and displays their newest acquisition on the Board, I applaud them for it. I enjoy looking at the card/s whether it be a raw Poor card or a PSA9 of something significant.<br /><br />Does anyone honestly think Keith O. or Larry Fritsh or anyone would get attacked for sharing his/her/their cards on this Board? C'mon. Some people enjoy sharing their collection with people and some don't. Too each his own. <br /><br />Does anyone attack Hal and his finds? There's a big difference between Jim and Hal. Hal would never use words like "existence" and isn't caught up pretty much only in the value of his purchases. Simply put, Jim rubs me the wrong way in some of the things he says and comes across as being very condescending. This comes across to a large majority of the Board as a person from Iowa once did. <br /><br />To say this place would better be suited if we limit the in fighting is simply incorrect. This is a very placid place full of good people. There are many opinions and if you make your opinions felt in a manner that doesn't offend or isn't worded properly, then there you might hear something from a fellow board member. This Board is about collecting and the love of collecting and some people simply don't understand that. <br /><br />DJ

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I am not sure that jealousy or envy are the core emotions driving some of the posts. Jealousy comes from begrudging someone their success. I honestly do not believe that there are many people here who are that petty. I think it is more accurate to say that many collectors are fed up with the money element being the focus of discussion and are voicing their disapproval when money is mentioned as the key to collecting. When someone relatively new comes out of the box talking money, money, money and brings postwar cards into play to boot, it turns off a lot of people here and they say so. It isn't that the value of cards is taboo or a bad topic (I enjoy a good investment thread and usually get into it), it is that making money the focus of everything really doesn't sit well with some of the posters here. Lots of us, myself included, come here to avoid talking about money, so when we see a post that cheerleads monetary considerations as the core of collecting, we react. <br /><br />I also think some folks also have to lighten up and remember that this is a community of collectors. There is no place for ad hominem (personal) attacks. If you make a post and someone trashes your opinion, trash theirs back, but don't trash them. That other Adam got run not merely because he was as venal as can be but because he was disingenuous, rude and intolerant of others. <br /><br />Edited to say:<br /><br />Personal attacks are encouraged on the following: the Dodgers current ownership and management team, Barry Bonds and the rest of the syringe boys, All reprint sellers, Roy Huff and his cut out compadres, Joe Orlando, PRO grading and Bud Selig.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>"There's a big difference between Jim and Hal. Hal would never use words like "existence" and isn't caught up pretty much only in the value of his purchases. "<br /><br />I don't ever remember Jim telling us how much he paid for any of his cards. Quote some for me please.<br /><br />And even if he did, what's so bad about that? Is he putting you down because he can afford a card that you may not be able to? Did he say "I paid $XX,XXX for this card and you can't afford it, haha". Quote something like that too if you see it. Thanks.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I love how broad statements get construde as being only direct toward Jim. <br /><br />Adam, you left out Joe Orlando<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>fixed it

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I have to agree about the fact that Jim doesn't rub his purchases in anyone's faces. He does focus on the value of the collections, but so what? You guys have to realize that if you're focusing on putting together high end sets (whether from the 50s or prewar), money is the dominant hurdle, not necessarily ingenuity or creativity. And if you're spending big bucks you are certainly focused on what the cards are worth on a month by month basis. Remember, even rich people don't like tossing money into the gutter. That being said, I happen to enjoy Jay's collecting habits and finds and truly respect the fact that the guy has spent a grand over the past year or so and has come up with so much. How in the hell can you not be impressed by that? The guy really loves this hobby - this religion you could almost call it. So while I identify strongly with Jim's concerns and interests as they are very similar to mine, I also identify with Jay's passion, purpose and dedication. It really blows me away. Believe me, I'd love to have a beer or 4 with both of those guys and talk cards all night.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>Even if half the members dislike me becasuse I'm female, or because I'm a freak, I learn more about my own and other peoples' stuff here than I could anywhere else. Yeasterday I found out I'd bought a modern reprint instead of an original photo. Now who else would have told me that? At Tri Star yesterday afternoon, someone who reads the board but never contributes said what a GORGEOUS photo I'd gotten of Josh Gibson--that's all I'd be hearing if I didn't post things here, and people didn't read and respond to them.<br /><br />I'm very greatful for this board. Forum. Whatever,<br /><br /><br /><br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Once again Jay cannot keep from making things up and using them to attack me. Jay, look in then mirror--what keeps you from winning any popularity contests is you act like a jerk and attack people--thats an easy one. Collectors look at what you say and say why would I want to post here when you have someone who acts like an idiot.<br /><br />To remind everyone who read what Jay says and think there is a grain of truth in it--I have never talked about the value of my collection and I made 1 post about the value of someone elses to illustrate a point--that the most valuable collections were held by graded card collectors. Yet Jay calls it my sole fixation.<br /><br />Saying that--I think that anything that relates to pre-war cards is fine here--and and I recall our moderator thought it was a good post.<br /><br />Thanks to all for their public and private support.<br /><br />I will add--read the boards--people want you to stop the personal attacks and get back to talking about topics related to vintage cards. I will not initiate but as Leon said it is fair to respond to someone who attacks you--continually.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Wow Jim, I am the sole reason that keeps people away from here? LMFAO!!! Aside from your post that you started mentioning you completed your SK set in PSA8 or better, when have you started a thread that didn't involve the value of cards or a collection? I took you to task for having an unhealthy fixation on values. Call it an attack if you like, but that doesn't change the fact that you do have an unhealthy fization with the value of your cards and that of others. You also prove once again what an elitist and norrow minded attitude you have by claiming that the most valuable collection are only those that are slabbed. <br /><br />And you wonder why people have taken a dislike to you? Stop playing the victim and own up to what you are and realize that not everyone is going to like you and what you post about. I know I can't please everyone and don't pretend to.<br /><br />Added - Jim, trust me, if I was making a personal attack on you, Leon would be the first one to delete and I would most likely be getting a personal email from him to. So don't assume that jsut becuase you get taken to task for something means that it is personal attack. Stop you whining, stop playing the victim. Geez.<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>csmoking,<br /><br />What are you talking about?<br /><br />I'm not bitter about not being able to afford certain cards that others have. I know I will probably never own a Wagner. I'm content with that. <br /><br />The problem I have is with the behavior of individuals and how these individuals handle their opinions. I've had a back and forth with Jay but I don't think he's a jerk. I don't think he's the reason people don't post.<br /><br />I want to know something. About what Jay wrote in a previous thread addition:<br /><br />"My problem with Jim and his is ilk is his attitude. He comes across as very elitist and very condescending. It may not be intentional, but that is the way he comes across to me"<br /><br />Seriously, is this an attack? <br /><br />DJ <br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Boy you are a rare bird.<br /><br />The three most valable card collections are those that are slabbed--this is not elitist this is factual and I backed up one with documentation. You know little about graded cards--pay attention and learn!<br /><br />I "wonder why people dislike me"--thats an interesting statement as I never wondered it before and I have a lot of friends who collect. <br /><br />Interesting how you try to reinvent what you have said about me in the past...and try to say it is not an attack when everyone seems to refer to it.<br /><br />And lastly--yes--several collectors have told me that you primarily and secondarily are the reasons they stay off the board.<br /><br />Once again I am responding--lets see if the attack man keeps it up. Can he control himself or will he go the way of Adam Moraine.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>DJ, I thought I was clear. I'll re-iterate.<br /><br />DJ wrote :<br /><br />"Does anyone attack Hal and his finds? There's a big difference between Jim and Hal. Hal would never use words like "existence" and isn't caught up pretty much only in the value of his purchases. Simply put, Jim rubs me the wrong way in some of the things he says and comes across as being very condescending. This comes across to a large majority of the Board as a person from Iowa once did. "<br /><br />Specifically, this section: "and isn't caught up pretty much only in the value of his purchases. " implies that Jim is the opposite due to the sentence previous to that: "There's a big difference between Jim and Hal."<br /><br />You are therefore directly implying that "Jim IS caught up pretty much only in the value of his purchases."<br /><br />I find that statement false. So in response, I ask you "I don't ever remember Jim telling us how much he paid for any of his cards. Quote some for me please."<br /><br /><br />As for your most recent post:<br /><br />"I'm not bitter about not being able to afford certain cards that others have. I know I will probably never own a Wagner. I'm content with that."<br /><br />I never said anything about you being bitter. Where do you get that from my post?

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>BlackSoxFan</b><p>Is it just me or are we spending more energy on a thread like this than any other (hint) on the board?<br><br>Regards,<br />Black Sox Fan<br /><br />- - - - - - - - -<br /><br />I'm Smart Enough To Know, There Are A Lot Of People Who Know More Than I Know<br /><br /><a href="http://www.blacksoxfan.com" target="new">BlackSoxFan.com</a><br /><a href=mailto:shoelessjoe@blacksoxfan.com?subject=Ne t54>email me</a>

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I was going to respond to csmoking but Ted talked me out of it. You are correct Ted.<br /><br />DJ

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>peace brothers.<br /><br />can't wait for the auctions for Hurrican Relief. I think that will be neat.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>"Why can't we all just get along?"<br />Rodney King

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I'm sitting here trying to figure out this litinay of attacks I've made against the board that has made me so notorious. <br /><br />The first altercation I recall was with MW. Don't recall what it was about anymore, but I picked up the title Dunderhead from him. When we met at the National you would have never guessed that we ever exchanged bad words and I probably spent more time at this table talking with him than any other.<br /><br />I've had my run ins with Scott Forest, but in the end, I still think he's a decent enough guy and have a lot of respect for the knowledge he brings to board. <br /><br />then there is AJM. What more can be said there.<br /><br />Anyone else I missed can step up. But be warned, be prepared for a bloody onslaught :-p<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>With thousands of people dying needlessly in New Orleans, let's all be thankful that we have good health, a warm place to live, and a little extra money in our pockets to participate in what today seems like a frivilous hobby. How about taking a break from this thread and looking at the bigger picture? There are crises in the world and we are arguing over what? Slabbed cards? Disparate personalities? Let's all lighten up. Sorry to be preachy, it's just how I feel.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>steve k</b><p>Anyone who states that they are some kind of &quot;pure&quot; baseball card collector and is not interested in the value of their collections, isn't fooling anybody else, they are only trying to fool themselves. Why? - I have no idea. If you've ever paid one penny for a baseball card, or sold a baseball card for one penny, you are then excluded from being a &quot;pure&quot; or whatever term you want to use, collector. <br><br>Really, the argument that pure collectors don't think about the value of their cards, is just plain silly. Money is an object in baseball card collecting whether wanting to admit it or not. That being said...yes of course there are degrees of who may be more of a collector versus investor than others...but so what!<br><br>Some people should learn to mind their own business...whether a person wants to only collect or invest in baseball cards, or do both is fine with me and should be fine with everybody. We are all part of a great hobby.<br><br>Steve<br><br>

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Jim, I pay attention and learn all the time. You haven't contributed anything my knoweldge of cards since you appeared here. Actually, you really haven't contributed anything other talk about slabbed cards and values of collection that couldn't be found on the CU pages if anyone really cared about that.<br /><br />I am willing to bet I've forgotten more about collecting baseball cards in the 10 years I was out of the hobby then you currently know. There is more to collecting baseball cards than a plastic slab and where you rank on the registry. Instead of worrying about whether or not I've attacked you, how about you try showing us that you really know something besides plastic slabs because around here we collect cards.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>Are you serious Steve? I consider myself a pure collector and I don't think about the value of my cards. I'm not fooling myself. I know myself better than anyone and I can honestly say that. Don't speak on the behalf of everyone with those kind of statements. This thread will only increase with more friction. <br /><br />(expletive)! I have to get away from the VBC for a while. <br /><br />DJ <br /><br /> <br /><br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Steve, no one has claimed to be a "pure" collector. Jefferson Burdick and the guys from 40s and 50s were probably the last of the "pure" collectors. We are all well aware of the values of our collections. It's just that when people come in and make that their sole focus money, there are gonna be some people that have issues with that because there is more to collecting than just the value of your collection.<br /><br />Well, guess I'm wrong, DJ made hte claim while I was writing this <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Jay<br /><br />My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>Why do kids bicker over pieces of cardboard? Why do adults bicker over pieces of old cardboard? Is it like who has the fastest or biggest vehicle? Some sort 'compensation'?<br /><br />No offense, but who the hell fights over pieces of cardboard?<br /><br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>Imagine the perfect world... Imagine complete harmony and homogenous thought... WAKE UP!!!<br /><br />There's always going to be differences... it boils down to how we all play in this virtual sandbox together...<br /><br />Jay - Are you an antagonist? With that said... Bonds does roids...!!! just kidding (I should have used the past tense - ok, just kidding again).<br /><br />It's a public forum and something that some people don't realize is that "tone" can easily be misunderstood. It's difficult to present "tone" in cases when people write a quick two or three sentence reply without a lot of consideration. Something compleltely innocent is misinterpreted and then we have discontent. <br /><br />If there's a better board, please point me in that direction so that I can compare it to this one. I'll probably be a bit disappointed in the other board. <br /><br />I guess this thread could be used for suggestions to improve the board... <br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Bonds has 'roids? OMG!!! No wonder he has been unable to play.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Here's a thought. Jim keeps saying we don't know him. How about if he posts about something other than plastic, money and supposed personal attacks by me. That's all we have to go on so far, so he really can't complain about us not knowing him is that is all he ever posts about. That's all we have to go on.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>It's pretty arrogant to assume that "rich" people would be attacked on this board because others are jealous of what they can't have. I'm not jealous of anyone's PSA 8 1951 Bowman set-- couldn't care less.<br /><br />Jay's point of 12:49 PM is exactly right: nobody here is "attacking" Hal, Jay Miller, or most others with fantastic megabucks collections. Why? Because they don't appear to think of themselves as superior collectors because they can afford more. And that's just exactly how most of Jim Crandell's posts do come across. To Jim "Advanced" equals monetary value. <br /><br />That's the long and short of the issue, right there. <br /><br />All this "class warfare" stuff is beside the point, and a bit silly compared to what's happening elsewhere in the country (not that Barry's initial post in this thread wasn't painfully acute in many ways)<br /><br />Tim

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Tim. (Shortest post ever.)

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>bruce dorskind</b><p><br /><br />What makes America great, all of our faults aside, is that we all<br />have the opportunity to achieve.<br /><br />Only in America can a kid from anywhere (just ask Bill Clinton)<br />grow up to be President.<br /><br />I have been in this hobby for 26 years.<br /><br />Many of the people with great collections were self made entrepreneurs,<br />and many were men of very modest means.<br /><br />Many great collections were owned by people of limited means,<br />chemists, school teachers, Topps Gum employees and two postman.<br /><br />I know, I visited their homes, or in some cases trailers, and traded<br />cards.<br /><br />The fact that someone is worth $10,000 or $100,000,000 <br />has little to with his collection.<br /><br />The fact that some of us are agressive and go after what we want is<br />simply a personal decision about allocating resources.<br /><br />The same people that criticize successful businessman who choose<br />to collect PSA 9 Goudey Cards are the same people who complain<br />about working more than 35 hours a week or wondering why they<br />never get a break.<br /><br />Nearly everyone has had a chance to achieve fame and greatness in<br />their lives---and those who worked hundred hours every week<br />while others watched and complained should not be attacked because they<br />are successful.<br /><br />The personal, inappropriate comments of a few members on The Board<br />who complain about high prices do not reflect the Darwinan nature of<br />the world in which we live.<br /><br />If you want to complain, why don't you complain about the Chinese or<br />The Indians who in a few short years, through massive effort and incredible<br />hard work have captured so much of the world's wealth.<br /><br />I say God Bless all the Google Billionares, and those collectors with <br />the extraordinary vision, taste and courage to do whatever it takes<br />to build the finest collections in the world.<br /><br />Without a Guggenheim or a JP Morgan...the world certainly would not be able<br />to share in the great masterpieces of Western History.<br /><br />Look at Burick's collection in the MET or Spalding's collection in the NY<br />Public Library or Sir Wharton Tigar's Collection at the British Mueseum<br />or a large piece of the Barry Halper or Frank Steele Collection at <br />the Baseball of Fame.<br /><br />Perhaps, those who complain, should take a long look in the mirror.<br /><br /><br />Your comments welcome<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Steve--right you are.<br /><br />Jay--sorry to disappoint you but my posts will probably concern graded cards--obviously the future of the hobby(and for that matter most of the present) with a few posts about the value of graded cards thrown in just to piss you off.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>How can you post about the best collections out there omit cards graded by, for example, SGC? Compare the following:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.psacard.com/set%5Fregistry/display_rsets.chtml?setid=83&numberofcurrentsets=5 000&listname=current" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.psacard.com/set%5Fregistry/display_rsets.chtml?setid=83&numberofcurrentsets=5 000&listname=current</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.sgccardregistry.com/index.asp?action=2&setcategory=1&setid=243" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.sgccardregistry.com/index.asp?action=2&setcategory=1&setid=243</a><br /><br />On this comparison alone there are two T206 collections that never get any credit -- look at the two SGC T206 collections at or above 98%.<br /><br />I just tend to have an issue with your posts because they are PSA slanted, and ignore other graded issues (SGC, GAI) and the value of unslabbed collections.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>T206 Collector,<br /><br />Are you saying that any of the SGC T206 sets rival Louchios's T206 collection?<br /><br />First, I don't think there are many GAI complete high-grade sets so lets exclude them.<br /><br />Secondly, SGC--I love em. While there are some outstanding individual sets, not aware of anyone who can rival the big PSA collectors in terms of breadth of collection.<br /><br />non-graded--forget it.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Jim, in all seriousness, what do you have to offer this board? I'm not saying you shouldn't post here, but you've contributed nothing to further anyone's knowledge, but have proven to be a major sore point since your appearance. With your last post you've made it abundantly clear that unslabbed cards are not real, and if they don't come from PSA are marginally valid. This is why people think you are condescending and pompous horse's patoot.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>BlackSoxFan</b><p>The only "reason", if you can call it that, that the most valuable ungraded collection is worth less than the most valuable graded collection is because an ungraded collection isn't graded!!!! Gee doesn't that make sense... by the way...aren't there other topics on the board .... That's because this whole grading thing has done whacky things to prices...i would be much less than surprised, and border on certain, that if you were to grade that said collection, it would dwarf the graded collection! To assume that every big time collector gets things authenticated is i think a bit of a stretch!<br /><br />Regards,<br />Black Sox Fan<br /><br />- - - - - - - - -<br /><br />I'm Smart Enough To Know, There Are A Lot Of People Who Know More Than I Know<br /><br /><a href="http://www.blacksoxfan.com" target="new">BlackSoxFan.com</a><br /><a href=mailto:shoelessjoe@blacksoxfan.com?subject=Ne t54>email me</a>

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>Nobody could want it any simpler than this:<br /><br />Jim Crandell (still obsessed with the overall $$ value of collections, his and others, for reasons that escape me): <br /><br />"non-graded--forget it."<br /><br />There you go-- <br /><br />And everywhere else, Jim plays the innocent victim of other people's vicious "attacks" on his chosen method of collecting! <br /><br />Disclaimer:<br />I have nothing against Jim personally-- never met or dealt with him. I'm willing to believe he's a great guy in all kinds of ways. I'm just reacting to what I see him post on this board, again and again, ad nauseum.<br /><br />Tim

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>steve k</b><p>&lt;&lt;&lt; there are gonna be some people that have issues with that because there is more to collecting than just the value of your collection. &gt;&gt;&gt;<br /><br />Jay - I don't think anyone here would disagree with that. I would have to imagine though that even the hardest-core card dealer, in it for the money, he would even have a few cards in a "collection."<br /><br />DJ - Sorry if the post came across a little bit blunt - sometimes that's Philly style debating and having lived in Philly for over 40 years I just can't help it <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />But the point DJ was that value and money and investing are a big part of baseball card collecting and that most certainly includes pre-WW2 cards - we can't stick our heads in the sand and deny that. So in my opinion these things should be of focus at VBC. It of course won't be discussed in every thread and probably not in most threads. I enjoy threads such as Jay starts about the history behind some cards and players - sharing his knowledge about this - and it is appreciated. <br /><br />Where Jay irks me though is when he makes statements towards Jim such as "I am willing to bet I've forgotten more about collecting baseball cards in the 10 years I was out of the hobby then you currently know." Who cares and it doesn't matter! <br /><br />Jay - I have probably forgotten more about 50s and 60s baseball cards than you know. Perhaps not. But who cares and it doesn't matter! - especially in a pre-WW2 board <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> But Leon does allow an occasional off topic post-WW2 thread and I contribute when I can. When it comes to pre-WW2 cards I shutup and read and learn...and I enjoy doing so.<br /><br />But Jim's posts about investing and values are also quite interesting. I see no reason whatsoever why even a so-called "pure" collector such as DJ should mind threads such as these. I don't open every thread here...if a so-called "pure" collector doesn't want to open a particular thread then simply don't open it.<br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>THE BEST POSTS HERE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH VALUE OR WHO HAS THE BETTER COLLECTION.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>You guys don't understand... and it reminds me of a Wes Westrum quote... what a smart man, played under Durocher, who learned from Frisch, who learned from Mr. McGraw. The quote in a moment.<br /><br />I, for one, and maybe the only one, DO NOT value graded cards more than ungraded. If what you mean is selling price, you may be right. But value, true value... I value being able to actually hold the card, touch it, and think of others who held it before me. My first Cobb card I bought from Lew Lipset, a T206. A bit worn, has a pin hole at the top. Most of you guys would trash talk the card. Some kid had that card on his wall, above his bed, maybe. He might have seen Ty play... My great uncle was a car dealer. He once told me about a trip he took to Detroit, on the train, from south central Kentucky. It was 1922, he was an employee at the automotive place at the time. He, the owner of the place, and another employee went to Detroit to pick up 3 automobiles and drive them back to Kentucky. They stayed overnight. He told me they went to the ball park and saw a ball game. Washington was visiting. My uncle Paul saw Walter Johnson pitch, Ty Cobb get a hit, and Ty then steal a base. Uncle Paul had to be close to 90 when he told me that, his eyes twinkled. I can hold a Ty Cobb card, and that has value to me. More value than physically touching a piece of plastic. <br /><br />To get value selling a card, I won't argue against plastic generally adding value. As for the value of a card to me that I plan to keep, plastic would decrease the value of the card to me, decrease the pleasure I derive in owning the card.<br /><br />Wes said, "Baseball is a lot like church, many attend, few understand."<br /><br />Hell's bells, I wish some of the semi-collector speculator knuckleheads would move on beyond our little cardboard bits; why not get into gasoline futures??<br /><br />Sometimes I may be wrong, but seldom in doubt.<br /><br />Frank.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>Steve- I think people hate being classified and I didn't like being judged. I honestly don't care about the value and I'm not a fool for not accessing any sort of value on my collection. Generalizations cause out of control threads...like this one. <br /><br />I honestly (this is my opinion) think that this Forum isn't for everyone and those people should go to the CU. The ones that harp and harp and harp about dollar signs should be given the torch and asked to leave the Island like our friend from Iowa whose legacy was the longest thread when he told everyone that if you collected PSA1's to PSA3's, that your cards were worthless.<br /><br />Sure, graded cards is perhaps the future but last I knew, the cardboard itself is what makes the plastic around it valuable and believe it or not, some perfectly good cards do exist without this plastic lucite fitting.<br /><br />This thread is a room full of screaming people. <br /><br />Robert, you are correct!<br /><br />DJ

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p><br /> Hi Guys, and Gals,<br /> I don't know DJ or Jim, but would advise you to participate in the threads that interest you and ignore the rest. Why increase your stress level over someone's opinion on a chat board anyway? We have enough of that in real life. Collect what you enjoy or invest in and forget about what everyone else thinks.<br /><br /> Cheers Brian

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Dear Jim;<br /><br />Let me be the first to say I’m sorry if I am wrong about you. But one more time I have come to this conclusion by what you continue to say in your posts and how you come off while doing so. <br /><br />Jim I also don’t think everyone or the select few you now have a beef with are plotting or dreaming up ways to bum you out, please don’t flatter yourself. We simply are disagreeing with you and voicing an opinion about you and your beliefs. <br /><br />The same way you would if I was to post or make a general statement like graded cards are lame or something. If I did that would you not post in disagreement or say I was nuts, of course you would and I would be a big enough person not to cry the blues about it. <br /><br />I wonder how many of your defenders would rush to the aid of me or others if I was here saying the things you have been saying, without dropping powerful collecting names every second. <br /><br />And as of late I myself find I’m only replying to you and others continued whining that you are the target of some grand evil plan. <br /><br />This forum is just fine we share, we argue, we trade and voice opinions about people places and things that’s the whole point of this place. <br /><br />You think I’m wrong and we’ve gotten off on the wrong foot, email me and let’s talk. If you don’t like me that’s fine, I’m ok with that but please stop burning this torch that you are the unfortunate victim of circumstances and hostility it’s simply not true.<br /><br />Also Leon if you are reading this? On many occasions you’ve asked unless you have proof of something or someone, don’t bring it up that general accusations should not be allowed. Would it be wrong to think that if Charlie Merkel, Don Louchios and Marshall Fogel or any other names Jim can pull out of his hat, have issues with the board and its select members. That Jim should only post his own issues not the issues of other people. Who seem to have un-proven issues with the board that only Jim seems to know about, these are grown adults who can voice their own opinion are they not?<br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Kenny Cole</b><p>Sometimes its not so much the message as it is the delivery. To my way of thinking, it really doesn't matter whatever someone else feels about graded or undgraded, who has the "best" or the "most valuable" collection, blah, blah, blah. That's they're opinion and they're entitled to it whether I agree with it or not. Where the acrimony seems to come in is with the tone of some of the posts, or at least the perception (or, arguably, misperception) of that tone.<br /><br />This isn't life or death stuff and I quite frankly don't care whether its Marshall Fogel or Larry Frisch who have "the best" or "the most valuable" collection. I'd like to see them both, not so that I can decide that issue, but because they both have some wonderful cards that I'd like to see/drool over. I don't dispute that cards have value. I also confess to trying to keep aware of what my more prized cards are doing price-wise. However, that being said, I generally collect cards because I enjoy doing it, regardless of what they're worth. To my way of thinking, you can't put a dollar value on that. If others are more concerned with collecting for the value of their cards, that's great too. Why should I care as long as I'm happy with what I'm doing? Seems to me that it isn't, or at least shouldn't be, that big a deal. <br /><br />Kenny Cole

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I strongly disagree with Bruce's suggestion that people who are critical of well-heeled collectors buying PSA 9 slabs are lazy muddlers complaining about people who work hard and have gotten ahead in the world. Let's cut through the self-congratulatory Calvinist rhetoric: the guys who were pioneers and whose collections would be worth fortunes today weren't rich. Timing is everything, my friend. 25 years ago people handed me boxes and bags of old cards for free just to get them out of their attics and garages. If I was 25 years older and was spending the equivalent fraction of my income that I spend now on cards starting in 1980, I'd have an immeasurably more complete, complex and diverse collection than the one I've put together now, and my collection now doesn't suck by any measure (monetary, breadth or otherwise). <br /><br />No one begrudges anyone their worldly success and no one is trying to take away or disparage anyone's hard-won wealth. But this isn't a Darwinian world, it is a chat board of (mostly) well off white (nearly all) guys who collect expensive toys. I am fed up with the smug natural selection comments that are all the rage among the wealthy in this country. There are so many factors that we have little control of that put us into our present positions: birth, education, US citizenship, etc. We who collect expensive baseball cards for fun, I have a news flash: we have already won the Darwinist race. The difference between the folks who buy PSA 9 cards and brag about how expensive their collections are and the people who spend what they can afford and derive their fun that way isn't a reflection on their relative merits as human beings or their morals. Please don't insult collectors of less impressive means who are passionate collectors simply because they don't measure up to some arbitrary standards of financial success. <br /><br />Personally, I encourage and welcome all wealthy collectors to buy as many high grade PSA slabs as possible. I WANT you to bid them through the roof becauee it means you will be chasing them and not be collecting what I collect. <br /><br />And BTW, I have no problem with the Chinese and Indian entrepreneurs who have come up from nothing...as long as they don't collect baseball cards <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>John J. Grillo</b><p>I think someone should be able to pass a little expertise on graded card collections or the challenges of pursuing a graded card collection, and likewise, graded card collectors can learn a lot from the likes of those who mostly pursue raw collections on this board. We should respect the challenges both raw and graded card collectors have to face.<br /><br />I have no clue whether or not there are raw sets that can compete with some of the best on the PSA or SGC registry, my guess is that there must be. I recently spent the afternoon with a former student of mine who had what looked like at least Near-Mint, Mint sets of a run 1960's football sets. He never heard of PSA or SGC (and believe it or not, he thought Beckett was the only graded company out there).<br /><br />With that said, it sounds so naive when some claim you can't be a true collector or words to that affect if value is a prime concern. My guess is that most of us here are interested in the value of our collections--even though we do not plan to sell. And because someone is not afraid to admit it and post on this board, we treat him as some sort of Darth Vader.<br /><br />This board is limited to vintage baseball. I love my vintage boxing but I understand I cannot come on here on rant about boxing cards. I am pursuing a "Boston" T205/6/7 team set so I like to lurk here and learn a little. If graded card collections are discussed, it should be kept within the subject limits of this forum in my opinion.<br /><br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Amen, Adam. Very well said.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>bruce dorskind</b><p><br /><br />The point, Boxing Man, is that people should have the freedom to collect<br />what they wish, and say what they wish...much as you did.<br /><br />No one is bragging about the value of their cards.<br /><br />The Four Base Hit and The Just So I own were among the first 15 type<br />cards that I ever purchased. I recognized early on, much like collecting<br />art, you rarely go wrong when you aquire the very best in top conditon/<br /><br />I also disagree with your view of the rich in this country. For the most<br />part, they are wealthy because they worked harder, risked more and<br />never gave up...just like the guys who made it to the major leagues.<br /><br />It is not a question of a PSA 2 collection being better or worse than<br />the highest rated collection in a registry.<br /><br />But don't deny for a moment, that this hobby, much like collecting coins,<br />art or Rare furniture is competitive and collectors are in competition,<br />albeit, usually not life or death for the very best items.<br /><br />That is why Mastro and Lifson realize astronomical prices for items<br />the first time they are offered and said items often fall in subsequent<br />auctions.<br /><br />I am hardly Calvinist in my views. I do believe that the differences betwen<br />rich and poor have more to with effort and determination than anything<br />else. And that most of the succesful people I have ever met built<br />their businesses and built their collections whether it was based on luck<br />or visioion or pure blood sweat and tears<br /><br />I was 24 when I realized the rarity of Four Base Hits, Just So's and Boston<br />Garters...everybody else was chasing after Hank Aaron cards...does that<br />make me lucky? I hardly think so.<br /><br />This hobby is about the History of America's sport...and America has and<br />always will be a country based on individual achievement and visionary<br />competitiveness. We all compete with each other evey day. Don't overlook<br />that point. <br /><br />I appreciate your consideration<br /><br />Bruce

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>Say Bruce,<br /><br />Speaking of this board being better... <br /><br />This is a great group of people that contribute here. How do you feel about contributors that make statments on the board and then say they will follow through by mailing information to another board member and not following through? <br /><br />By the way, I appreciate your offer to me to mail me a 1923 article you found about OJ cards but never following through on it. I provided my mailing infomation as you requested, waited and nothing. I emailed you a few more times and then figured you just didn't care to send it. If you are going to say you mailed it then that's great, it never made it to me and you stopped responding to my emails. <br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Fred

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>I meant a "copy" of the article.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Thanks to all but its obvious the only way Jay and now Tim(who is he)will stop attacking me is if they wear themselves out. They are so crazed with jealousy and hatred that they are getting delusional.<br />The world is changing guys--you can either get on or be left behind.<br />If you want to keep up the attacks fine if thats what you are about. I've been told I can fight back.<br />Is it wrong to say that people don't want to post here because of the arrogant attitude of Jay and others?<br />Is it wrong to say that graded cards are the future of the hobby?<br />Is it wrong to say that graded card collectors now have the most valuable collections in the hobby?<br />All these are indisputable in my mind.<br />Sorry to shake up your world but a little truth is good now and then.<br /><br />Jim<br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>zach</b><p>No offense to anyone but isn't this board about vintage baseball cards? How many threads are we gonna have about money and how the board could be better before we get some card talk ?

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p><br />Jim: <br />"Thanks to all but its obvious the only way Jay and now Tim(who is he)will stop attacking me is if they wear themselves out. They are so crazed with jealousy and hatred that they are getting delusional."<br /><br />Jim, mentioning "jealousy and hatred" really ups the stakes a bit too much, don't you think? It's just a hobby, after all. <br /><br />I have no interest in attacking you personally. ALL I WANT is for you to think twice before making comments ridiculing and belittling anyone who doesn't have a bunch of overpriced plastic slabs for his collection. <br /><br /><br /><br />Tim

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Jim, I consider you a friend and as such i should advise you to preface what you write here with IMO.<br /><br /> <br /><br />JMHO<br /><br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />edited to add: Chris (original poster) I agree with you.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>Edit: Oops. Sorry. I thought I was on the Beckett board.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Tim,<br /><br />I am not ridiculing anyone. I am simply defending myself--mostly from Jay's and now your attacks.<br /><br />Your view is obvious--"overpriced plastic slabs"<br /><br />The truth is that grading has been the savior of the hobby. I can't tell you how many people I have spoken to that gave up on the hobby because of card trimming, bleaching etc. With card grading these people have come back and are once again enthusiastic.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>I would also urge everyone to read Chris's original post--Jay and others are trying to change the subject from the way they attacked me in prior posts for publishing estimates on Merkel's collection.<br /><br />There should be no place for this kind of thing on this message board. Its about cards. Jay if you get the urge to attack me just stop---you can do it--simply don't respond to my posts if all you can do is make it a personal attack.<br /><br />Jim

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>Hi Jim,<br /><br />Let's try to keep it civil-- we can disagree about the importance of grading without personalizing-- that's certainly what I would prefer. If I broke that rule, I apologize.<br /><br />I really don't have a problem with card grading. I certainly don't see it as the hobby's savior, but it's probably an inevitable phase in a maturing hobby. I take advantage of it when it seems useful to me.<br /><br />As I've said repeatedly, I just don't like the implication that anyone not on the grading bandwagon can't have a superb collection, or be as knowledgeable about the hobby as one who has lots of 8s and 9s. <br /><br />Anyway, I'm going to swear off any more "attacks", because as I've said, I have nothing whatsoever against you personally, and arguing with people is not why I'm in this hobby. <br /><br />I would just earnestly ask that before you post in the future, you pause to consider that others have very different approaches to the hobby from yours-- and that theirs may be equally valid. None of us has a corner on "the truth" about this hobby.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Tim<br /><br />Edited for style

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>This is funny to me. I like graded cards. Nearly all my cards are graded. I love the cards, but am certainly aware of the value in the cards. <br /><br />Nevertheless, Ive never been attacked by Jay, Tim, Wonka, T206 or any of the numerous other people who have trouble with the tone/content of Jim's posts. Ive also noticed that these same people have no problem with Hal or his very high dollar (and mostly graded) collection. The main difference (and this has been mentioned above) is that Hal contributes to this board in more ways than I can count. For that matter, so do Jay, Tim, Wonka and T206. I hope that others view my posts as adding something to the board even though I am a relative newcomer to the prewar sector (less than 2 yrs). <br /><br />Jim, people seem to be begging you to just offer something that is useful and helpful - why not just take the opportunity to contribute your knowledge rather than continuing to make statements that come across basically as "F off, I'll post whatever the hell I want." <br /><br />Meanwhile, I guess its better being one of the peons without an "advanced" collection. At least I can donate a card or two to raise money for those less fortunate without sacrificing my rank in the psa set registry.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>In his excellent post, Josh said:<br />"Jim, people seem to be begging you to just offer something that is useful and helpful - why not just take the opportunity to contribute your knowledge" <br /><br />I suspect (Jim can correct me if I'm wrong) that Jim was trying to do exactly this when he posted about the monetary value of those high-grade collections. I was interested in his estimates for these sets, and he is no doubt quite knowledgeable about these matters.<br /><br />So I believe that was meant as a constructive post. But then things turned a bit sour, and both "sides" let slip some comments that probably shouldn't have been said, and we were all off to the races............<br /><br />But I've had enough, and maybe others have too, so let's try to get back to why we enjoy collecting (in our different ways)<br /><br />Regards to all,<br /><br />Tim <br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Tim,<br /><br />Fair enough.<br /><br />Two points.<br /><br />1)I agree there are those not on the grading bandwagon who have superb collections--just not in the top three in dollar value.<br /><br />2)Of course people with ungraded cards can know as much as those with lots of 8s and 9s. Its just rare this happens(kidding). I like this board because I can learn. While I have seen cards from most pre-war sets(collect about 10) and think I know a lot about baseball in that era I do not know intracacies about the sets.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>John</b><p>“Is it wrong to say that people don't want to post here because of the arrogant attitude of Jay and others?”<br /><br />Yes, only speak for yourself Jim try letting us know how you feel without dropping a dozen names. Let those people come forward and speak for themselves. <br /><br />“Is it wrong to say that graded cards are the future of the hobby?”<br /><br />No not at all, but don’t hold your breath and pout like a little baby when others disagree with your view.<br /><br />“Is it wrong to say that graded card collectors now have the most valuable collections in the hobby?”<br /><br />IMO, yes how the hell do you know what all of the collecting world has? Who are you the amazing card Kreskin?<br /><br />“All these are indisputable in my mind.”<br /><br />Good for you, I’m happy you have an opinion and I respect your opinion, now here’s a twist try respecting other peoples opinions too!<br /><br />“Sorry to shake up your world but a little truth is good now and then.”<br /><br />Truth is fine I guess but just because you threw up an opinion about these things Jim doesn’t make it gospel, get over yourself already. <br /><br />And one more thing let Charlie Merkel, Don Louchios and Marshall Fogel or anyone else you can think of, come in here and discuss the values of there collections since they are the ones who own them. <br />

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Josh,<br /><br />What do you think I am doing. Tell me how many collectors actually know the estimated worth of Merkel's collection or that because of the rapid escalation of graded card values that the most valuable sets are now held by graded card owners--not many. <br />I can contribute to the board mostly through my knowledge of the graded card market and the people in the hobby.I know virtually all of the major graded card dealers and am close friend with Baker and Rocchi of GAI and with Dave Forman--president of SGC.<br />I would suggest if people don't like this stuff don't post.<br /><br />Jim

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Sorry John--going to say what I want to say--I encourage you to as well as long as you don't attack me.<br /><br />Just don't pout like a baby if I do not respond.<br /><br />Jim

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>zach</b><p>many other people have great collections. One who I am pretty good friends with whose collection not many at all know about. Another is the owner of the Just So Young whose collection is suppose to be top notch.

This board COULD be so much better!
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Zach,<br /><br />Absolutely true. Lots of graet collections out there. I may try to expand my top three list and make it a top 10 or a top 20.<br /><br />Jim