Genuine question, what is with the National staying in Chicago
 

I may have missed this thread, but why is Rosemont hosting for all of the upcoming schedule?

It’s easily the worst location for me and my complete inability to handle oppressive heat. My medical conditions cause me to reach dangerous levels when my heat regulation is challenged. Have they given up on changing locations? This may be the end of trying to go to the National unless Chicago works on the convention center…but I am not holding my breath for anything but weak lip service. Others may say different but I think Stevens is a complete sh*thole.

I'm with you. I've always felt this way. It's a complete dump that needs to be imploded. I would be so happy to watch its destruction.

When was it built, anyway? It doesn't seem that old, yet was worn down even 20 years ago.

Agreed. If they insist on keeping the National in Chicago, they need to move it to the McCormick Center.

https://www.mccormickplace.com/

The Donald Stephens Convention Center isn't that great but it's a great location, imo. Easy to get to, easy to get to stuff around it.....all in all, I like it and wish it would stay there. Everyone has their own view.

I doubt McCormick is an option
 

They have a sweet deal with the Stephens Center, I imagine - McCormick would be in another league of costs. It's not that convenient for the suburban crowd that goes to the National either.

But guys, jeez! - I get the heat, but that's the time of year. It's hot everywhere. Stephens is far superior to the other recent venues IMHO, and it has a lot of hotel space right there, which the others don't have. The Cleveland hotel situation last year was really deplorable - we were in an inconvenient shithole in which nothing worked, AND it was as expensive as the Rosemont places.

Agreed. The place is a dump but it’s easy to get to and is connected to hotels. And there are some restaurants within walking distance. If it can’t be in Baltimore, Chicago is the best place.

Probably too expensive to rent.

On a random note, are we at the point where there could be a “modern” national ( say mid 90’s cards and newer ) and then a vintage national. I realize some people collect both.

To answer the question specifically, if I recall, when Mike Burkus (RIP) spoke at one of the Net54baseball Dinners, he said it was cost, ingress/egress, and being able to do a contract several years out, were the main reasons for where the National was held. For those that don't know, Mike managed, and helped found, the National since day one until he passed in late 2015.

Seems like a short sighted move. Like anything else, you want to grow the business model. Expose it to more people. Would make more sense to have in different locales. Give people opportunity to make it a vacation, etc. With present location you are just churning the same hard core base of people year after year.

Chicago a nice town. Business takes me there a few times a year. Nothing interesting about it as a convention locale.

Considering how close it is to the airport, the number of hotels and restaurants in walking distance (plus the Chicago Dogs ballpark, shopping, casinos), it's a fairly good location. Yeah the AC sucks and the food onsite is a joke (although it's quite easy to have something delivered) but the way the whole thing is essentially in one place is pretty sweet I think. And if you want to go Downtown, there is public transit close by.

Simplest Reasons

1) As noted: Easy access to the show from the airport for out-of-town guests and dealers

2) The Stephens people know how to run shows. Air Conditioning should be better going forward. Cost appears from these comments to be reasonable for the promoters as well.

**** 3) The DEALERS who vote on where to put the show want it there. Until some location shows it can be better for them than Chicago, then folks we ain't moving. ******

4) As noted; Plenty of food and hotel options accessible. Baltimore, St. Louis (1995) and Anaheim are also great locations for hotels/walking to the show/accessibility to dining places. Atlanta is improving on those levels but unless you like heat more oppressive than Chicago can be, then that's not for you.

Load in and out sucks at Stephens, and I can't believe that doesn't bother more dealers. Other than that (and the AC situation last time which was insane) I like the location.

I feel like the AC situation was a freak set of circumstances. The Vrbo we rented had the AC go out while we were there that week. The repair guy that came said it wasn't broken, it just couldn't keep up with the unusual heat they were faced with and froze up. Sounded like it was happening all over the city that week.

Pure laziness.

I doubt the National goes to another location in the next 10 years.

I vote to change the name to the national sports collectors convention Chicago Rosemont. It’s actually historic.

I’ve been to shows there in March and November, and both are HOT. I can’t imagine July.

I'd be more likely to go if it was held in a more vacation-y locale, like Miami or San Diego.

There are always complaints on here about the location of the National, but I don't think overall attendance has really been an issue in the last few years. Maybe some net54 members aren't going, but plenty of other people are.

I think this may be the case. I don't ever recall that venue being as hot as it was last year.

It’s July/August…it’s going to be hot just about everywhere.

I haven't been to many Nationals, but I was at Chicago in 2023 and I loved it. I was there for Fri to Sun in 2023 and the temperature wasn't too bad. I was told it was worse on Wed and Thurs when loading doors were open and let all the cool air out.

I'm going again this year and really looking forward to it.

Rosemont has hotels within walking distance of the convention center, easy access to the airport and space for lots and lots of dealers.Chicago also has good travel links for most of the country.

I can definitely see the attraction of having it in other cities too, The National organisers have been very clear about the conditions for shortlisting cities. I suppose the big question is whether some of those criteria could be modied.

These 'Collectorisms' were based on people's reactions to one of the recent Nationals:


1027. The Stench of a Thousand Buffalo (loosely translated Ojibwe)
The hot, putrid and stifling air quality inside of a poorly ventilated show venue.

See also: ”Air Conditioning, Air Conditioning, Air Conditioning” - an adage expressing the three most important factors in determining where to hold a large card collectors convention.

See also: Breaksweatus Operandi (BO) (Lat.) - the unchanging, odiferous mode of slobs who never think of taking their fellow showgoers into account as they once again leave their deodorant sticks back home and unused.

See also: Smellpox - the rancid haze that envelops and infects you as you stand tightly crammed in around the dealer tables.

See also: Tactfoulness - the purposeful use of your malodorous ‘fragrance’ to make people scatter and free up space around you, so you have more room at the tables to comfortably operate in.

See also: Flop Sweat Equity - although you regret your stink is affecting people, you know the gamey odors emanating from your body were earned honestly through your hard work in the card show trenches.

Stephens knows their a/c is non functional and outdated. After two years of debate, the city council finally passed a vote to replace the roof top units for new last year. It was not a fluke, it is poor maintenance and management. It takes quality RTUs to move air when the venue is that packed.

The issue is, with the usual speed of local government this just might be completed in another 2-3 years. Until then I am out for my safety.

I don’t feel like I need to explain but for the 2 cents folks saying heat is everywhere there’s a difference when you have gone multiple rounds of chemo, lost all heat regulation with the meds killing my thyroid, and having literally no large intestines left to absorb water. The multiple ER trips for dehydration or heat stroke have told me there’s firm limits I am still learning. I’m not just being a pouter for giggles on this one.

I was at the show in 2023 Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Thursday was pretty warm, but not unbearable (and I'm a person who gets hot and sweats relatively quickly). I would estimate it got up to high 70s to low 80s on Thursday. Friday and Saturday were basically normal room temperature in the low 70s. Obviously, if you have particular health conditions, your mileage is different. But for the vast majority of people, the AC problem was overblown.

Hopefully it is better than last time.
But I am looking forward to it in Chicago and love the proximity to the airport, the hotels and best of all looking forward to seeing some old friends and new friends and actually seeing some of you in person

I believe I remember reading it was built in or around 1975.

As a lifetime Chicago area resident, McCormick place is a great venue but not one that is considered convenient to get to. I believe the second time the National was in Chicago it was held at McCormick place and I really was an awesome location in terms of show space but I didn't enjoy the mile walk just to get in the door. My family would always attend the Chicago Auto Show held at the same location and always felt it just wasnt a place we suburban residents really wanted to go to. Mayor Stephens in Rosemont recognized this which is why he built his empire...I mean the convention center where it was built.

Actually McCormick was the 3rd Chicago show in 1993

1983 and 1989 were held in hotel ballrooms

Rich

If I'm not mistaken, they're asking dealers who already are at the National. The ones who'd want it to move are already not there and not voting.

Yes they are, but if those dealers want to stay in Chicago, that's where we are staying. Hate to tell you this, but that is a simple equation. You got to get the votes from people who are paying for the tables

Rich

Baltimore will never be an option. Not even close to enough space required.

Atlanta should be a reasonable option but dealers love Chicago and Atlantic City. I personally also love Chicago for reasons everyone has listed above.

This.

Wish they'd get more of a variety of locations in the rotation. A beach destination would be great, or add in Vegas or NYC (Javitz Center?). ATL, Dallas, etc. I really enjoyed the 2016 AC Nat'l (I know a lot of people hate AC), and Baltimore 2012 was great. I think the only Chicago one I attended was 2008. Was fun, other than loosing my shirt on a Boston Garter I consigned to Mastro's Live Auction. :rolleyes:

I believe some of the more pressing challenges are:

- finding a large enough venue to host the show given how big it has become.
- being able to book said venue far enough in advance (assuming it is even available during the period of time needed.
- and a HUGE issue which many of the present stock of dealers may not even keep in mind given how long it has been since it was a factor - Rosemont is non-union venue. You would not believe how much cost it adds to have the show in a place where unions are part of the picture...it would eliminate a wide swath of exhibitors immediately or after they feel the pain of paying those bills once they certainly are not going to do it again (in many cases).

Sure the non-union angle / cost consideration is huge. Apparently union costs have severely affected Javits in NYC.

Dallas does not yet the infrastructure to support a NSCC. Maybe someday but it's a few years in the future and for the people who complain about heat in Chicago, well DFW blows away Chicago on that front

Those two years that the National was in Baltimore (2010 and 2012) were fantastic.

I don't know if dealers truly love AC. I thought when they voted for the next few locations, there was an offer for AC to be free (or almost free) for dealers, and it still wasn't picked. Someone else may be able to provide better details about what the offer was, but from what I remember reading, it sounded like they were really trying to push AC and it didn't happen.

Not for me. Some here have complained about the heat inside the Chicago venue. What about the heat that was outside the venue in Baltimore?! I've never felt anything that hellish on this continent before or since. While the venue was fine, we all still had to be outside at several points during our visit.

Trust me, dealers would set up on Mars if they could make a buck. Again, it goes back to convenience.

I'm not sure you can blame Baltimore for it being hot in late July or early August. There are plenty of suggested locations (Dallas, Las Vegas, Miami to name a few) that are likely to be far worse as far as heat outside than Baltimore.

Having travelled all over the continent in every type of weather, I can attest that there's something especially menacing about the summers in that particular area.

Nobody ever suggests Boston . . . maybe too expensive or not big enough. Cool city.

I'll always advocate for Indianapolis. Foot travel from hotels to the convention center is very easy; the downtown is full of restaurants, bars, breweries, etc.; the Triple-A Indianapolis Indians are right next door (and now Caitlyn Clark/Indiana Fever that time of year). There's a reason why the NFL combine, Final Fours, and a ton of other events (including a Super Bowl) are held there.

I'd love to see that!
I spent my first 32 years on this floating space rock about 2.5 hours south of Indy and still have tons of family in Southern Indiana and Northern Kentucky. I could knock out a National and family visit in one trip. :)

I'd expect literally any east coast city to break the attendance record in 2025. I'm in south central PA, which on a map is pretty close to chicago. But in reality it's a 10 hour drive. I'm somebody who can walk a show easily in 3 hours. It doesn't take me 3 days. So when the drive is 20 hrs total and I'm walking for 3 it just really isn't a great time.

Chicago is a national for people who fly and spend money on things that aren't cards, plain and simple. So that eliminates 9/10 collectors.

Based on distance and population alone (which should be the factors used) it should be held in the northeast every year,
In one of the following states
New York, Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, Connecticut, DC, Maryland. Statistically, these places will bring the most people every year. Because they are drivable from each other.

Personally I think DC with so much to do that isn't just the show should be the permanent spot. But there are other contenders too, I know the amount of collectors in Virginia who would go to a national if it was held in their state could bring a national crowd just from their state.

Each year the National will break the attendance record from the previous year, so I don't know how the hell the Stephens Convention Center will be able to handle the huge crowds.

I'd be all for Indianapolis or Cincinnati, but I feel like the reasons why these (and everywhere else) aren't happening have been discussed to death.

It should be held in a somewhat central location who's airport is a "hub" with lots of direct flights from every part of the country. The Convention Center should be an easy commute/shuttle ride from the airport. There should be a great number of hotels that are within walking distance to the convention center.

That's why Rosemont is a popular choice.

I would like to see the "National" delve west of the Mississippi once every 3-4 years. Las Vegas would be a great choice. Anaheim and San Diego are not as centrally located, but would be awesome locations as well. If San Diego can host Comic-Con, they can handle the National.

I believe the most heavily attended National of all-time was in Anaheim. There are endless hotels and restaurants within walking distance, and Disneyland, Universal, Angel Stadium, and the Beach are all right there (for non-collecting family members). So if they ever decide to mix it up, they should go west every now and then. Otherwise I'm fine with Rosemont.

I wouldn't assume that's a given. The modern market for shiny stuff, in particularly for football and basketball, is in the tank. Lots of those young dudes with the shiny little silver card cases have lost their ass big time in the last 2 years. The breaking business has taken a tremendous hit. The fractional goobers have all left town. The froth is off the market as we say on Wall Street.
Seems to me like a lot of the juice has been squeezed out of the lemon at this point.

I couldn't quantify it, but I suspect the amount of bidding on even the best most respected pre-war AHs is way down.

Indianapolis would be a fantastic location. The City really knows how to put on a show and everything is located within walking distance.

As an Atlanta resident I would love Atlanta. But the city sucks for getting around and restaurants/places to go downtown sucks. Perhaps at Cobb Galleria in Marietta.

Savannah Trade Center would be wonderful. But since the airport is small airline tickets there can get pricey.

I didn't realize Rosemont was non-union. I've done a lot of trade shows it is always a pain to deal with the union and/or the show logistics. You can't even change a light bulb in your booth in McCormick. In Vegas you can't use the elevator or anything with wheels to move your booth gear, hand carry only. So glad I don't do trade shows anymore. The extortion, I mean markup, for GES services at a lot of the shows makes Ticketmaster look reasonable.

A lot of locations are hot in July/August. They should have functioning AC though. You really don't want to think about Vegas, St Louis, or Atlanta that time of year.

2012 was a long time ago.

The voting was something like 175 for Chicago, 110 for Atlantic City and 50 for Atlanta for the 2026 National.

The bolded part is just not accurate.

Also Virginia can barely put on a decent regional show in Chantilly…

How sweet it was!

Baltimore was hot? Wait until you feel the heat in Atlanta! There is a reason why folks speak slower in the south; it so damn hot no one wants to move, even their lips! I live in the DMV and yes it is hot and humid during the summer but nothing as ungodly as the two days I spent in Atlanta at Braves games.

[QUOTE=JollyElm;2498813]
Smellpox - /QUOTE]

I giggled like a third grader at this.

Of course it's accurate. Most of the people going to the national in Chicago are flying, I haven't seen a n54er going that hasn't said they weren't flying yet. Like I already said, the northeast is the most heavily populated area of collectors, the ability to drive a short time enables people who can't spend exorbitant amounts on flights and hotel rooms the ability to go to the national. Its not subjective or an "I think I'm right" moment. Its objective and a fact. Crunching some simple numbers $100 in gas and a single day trip vs a $500 round trip economy flight and $200 a night in a hotel room or more depending on nights spent are pretty drastic differences. Most people aren't going to a show with thousands of dollars in their pockets. They are going with 50 or a few hundred bucks to spend on a single card or a bunch of cheap cards. So saving probably damn near $1000 after everything else is added up is massive.

I hear everybody saying they want a centralized national to be fair, and I respect that. But traveling to Nevada or the middle of Texas is just out of the cards for most people. That's a vacation for many, not a hobby trip. If the national wants to have the most people turn out every year it would be held in the northeast. That's all I'm saying.

And Chantilly never has any issues? And always has good turnout. So I'm not sure what that comment was about.

GENCON July 31, 2025- August 3, 2025 Indianapolis Convention Center. It has been there since 2003. The National isn't going to displace it.

Imagine that, a convention being held at the same place for over 20 years. We must have at least 5 threads a year complaining about where the National is or should be.

I'm sure we do. Because 99.8% of us would love to attend every year, and where it's located both brings in a lot of people and eliminates a lot of others.

I doubt that's different than how people feel who have other interests and attend other conventions like Gen Con. However, they must be getting enough people to show up for it to make it successful even though they hold it in the same place every year. It's probably not just the same people coming every year and others manage to figure out a way to get there if they really want to attend.

Has the National always been this week?

They could always change the dates :D

Agreed, with the proviso that the best venue I've seen for a card show was the Javits Center in Manhattan; I didn't care for Fanatics Fest but was impressed by the venue. The cost is hellish (tables would have to cost 3x as much) but the facility itself is exceptional and an easy walk to transport, food, hotels, etc.

I'm also in agreement about Chantilly. Not what it used to be. And a lot of dealers that used to set up are no longer.

I am going to have to disagree with you on these points.

The target audience of the show is not people with modest collecting budgets, it is collectors who are going to the show with thousands of dollars to spend, and they really don't care if the travel expenses are a thousand dollars more or less in any given year.

Also, the show is not the same as another card show. There is no economic argument that justifies the show in bargain shopping terms. If that is the focus, stay at home and buy on eBay. The National has bargains but is not the right show for bargain and budget-conscious collecting. It is the place for hunting down rare and obscure issues, finishing sets when you can see the cards in hand, finding crazy memorabilia, seeing insane eye candy on display, getting autographs, etc.

For me, at least, the most significant aspect of the National is that everyone goes. It is a great social week for me, a party to celebrate collecting with all the other at-heart ten-year-old boys and girls, a place to have hours-long conversations about cards like we did when we were kids. I dunno about most people but my wife and daughter have no interest at all in discussing which 1933 Goudey Ruth pose is the best one.

I agree with all of this. When I first started attending Nationals a couple decades ago there was a good chance I'd find a great, rare card to buy. As time went on, the Nationals became dominated by corporate sponsors/auction houses and the best cards I saw displayed were to be auctioned off in the near future. While I sometimes can still find a decent card to buy, I've adjusted my expectations and now really just go to walk around cards for a couple days, at least until I'm called back early for some kind of work emergency. The lower budget collector may still be able to find cards to buy but the powers that run the National aren't focusing on you. Which to me makes it a less necessary show to attend -- but if I can go I do go. I just don't feel as if I'm missing out as much if I don't.

I believe there has only been one year when it was different dates.

I know for sure 1996 National was the week before July 4th and some years it was the week later than now as the East Coast National was the following week.

A quick search for show programs on EBAY show 1999 show was a week earlier than now and 1990 was July 4th week. One could search other years if it is of interest but the point is there was a time the show was a different week than the past several years.

You are right, I believe the others were held at the Hyatt downtown.

This.

I went to the National in 2023 and was at the show from Wednesday through Friday. I spent around $2k on on flights, hotel, Ubers, and food/drink before I ever purchased a card, and it was well worth it just for the social aspect of it. I made one new buddy at that show and we still talk almost every week. This was only my 3rd National since 2002 as work or family vacation obligations typically get in the way; but I'll spend the money to go to any National I can, even if I had no cash for cards.

Food
 

I've never understood why the national doesn't invite every damn food truck in the city to set up outside. There were a couple food trucks inside at Cleveland last year (which is an AWFUL location) and those people made a killing.

I hope they do that for Chicago.

FWIW - As someone who flys in, I think chicago is a great location and honestly a great venue (other than the AC issue and the wifi issue a couple years back)

[QUOTE=commishbob;2499136]That's EXACTLY what you are supposed to do! :D

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're asking people in Chicago if they want to stay in Chicago. You'd get different dealers in California and then, if you hold it there, those guys are going to vote to hold it there again.

Those are the people who are, ahem, paying the bills for the show. We had a vote a couple of years for Atlanta, Atlantic City or Chicago and AC basically offered the dealers a rebate on their booths and we still ended up in Chicago.

I know it can be a tough concept for some people, but those people have paid the bills for the show have more of a right to determine where they want to be than you or I do. I'd love to see Arlington, TX continue to grow so we can have another NSCC here in the DFW area but I seriously doubt you'd get enough votes.

And I'll wager the promoters are always looking at other options to present to the people voting on the subject. But, frankly, in my opinion only, Chicago/ Rosemont is the best place to park the NSCC now and in future years.

Yes, people who pay the bills have a right to choose where it will be.

And the people who pay the people who pay the bills have a right to choose whether to attend.

I imagine at some point in the coming years attendance will start
to drop and the people who pay the bills will start to make other decisions.

No attendance is not going to increase every year.

And some of the corporate sponsors selling shiny nonsense and fractional bs will disappear.

Yes, attendance will increase each year.

+1