SUBJECT: BEWARE Steve Verkman, Keith Vari, Leland’s, Clean Sweep & Paragon auctions
 

My name is Joe Borozny. I have been collecting cards and memorabilia for almost 40 years. I am posting to share a situation with the hobby community to ask for any advice (lawyers – is there any legal course of action here?) and help prevent others from falling victim to what I did by Steve Verkman and Keith Vari of Clean Sweep, Lelands and Paragon auctions.

I am in an exceptionally challenging life situation involving my health and the health of my family and feel forced by that to sell my collection. I have not been very active in the hobby the last few years, but knew of Lelands as I had purchased from them in the past. I reached out to discuss the possible sale of my collection through Lelands. I explained my life situation to them – they were verbally very sympathetic. Keith Vari called me up on November 30th, said he was in Staten Island and was on his way over to look at my collection. Keith did not communicate that Steve Verkman was with him or that they intended to take anything that day. They came with a 2 trucks. Steve told me that he would take my entire collection for a 60% (me) -40%(them) split. I questioned that 40% sounded like too much on top of the 20% buyers premium - to which Steve in part replied “it’s a lot of work”. There are numerous items in my collection worth thousands of dollars individually (Tom Seaver contracts, Nolan Ryan contract, Rusty Staub Game used Jersey’s, rare Topps Test issues to name a few). I estimate the whole collection is worth well into six figures. I feel stupid for signing the contract (see attached) and letting them take so much of my collection without checking in with other hobby contacts first (they DID NOT take it all as discussed, but cherry picked all of the more expensive items), but felt pressure both from them as well as my life situation.

I checked in with a couple of old hobby friends a few days later and was told that an auction house taking 40% of the hammer + the buyers premium was anywhere from gouging to criminal. I desperately need the funds to pay off debt and medical expenses. When I reached out to both Keith and Steve to discuss and attempt to renegotiate or get my collection returned, I was told I was in a binding contract and there would be no renegotiation. I am attaching a copy of the contract.

1) If you are an attorney and believe you can be of any help please reach out to me

2) If you find yourself ready to sell your lifelong collection – think twice before contacting Clean Sweep auctions, Lelands auctions, Paragon Auctions, Steve Verkman or Keith Vari.

wow
 

Wow

Not Seeing Attached Contract
 

I am not seeing the attached contract? Is there a place to see it I am not aware of before making any kinds of judgements or opinions.
Thanks Tim

I’d love to see the contract, looks like it didn’t attach.

Steve's Response
 

Steve Verkman is out of pocket and asked me to post this for him. I am cutting and pasting....thanks


Hi Leon,

Can you please post this for me:

"This post is not accurate. With very large collections that involve hundreds and hundreds of lots and photographs, we do have to charge an extra fee.

The labor involved in this is extremely extensive and we take care to break these collections up over hundreds of lots to maximize the value for our consignors.

Mr. Borozny will get 60% of the buyer's premium, this was explained to him over the phone.

We explained to Mr. Borozny at the time how much work would be involved in this collection, that literally a team of people would be working on it, so we will have to charge for that.

We have never and would never take advantage of someone. The amount of work going carefully through a collection of this size, with most items not organized or authenticated, is a massive endeavor.


Thanks much - Steve Verkman"






.

From the AH statement posted by Leon, it sounds like the consignor will get the hammer price plus 60% of the BP?

If so, that seems like a pretty solid deal for the consignor.

Probably would be helpful to take a gander at that contract to see what it says.

If correct then it would seem to be a good deal for the consigned, but since there is also mention of having to charge an extra fee due to the amount of work involved, it seems unlikely the consigner would be getting the full hammer price plus 60% of the BP.

I would agree with the above as well, if indeed the consignor is getting the full winning bid amount plus 60% of the buyer's premium. Sounds like a possible miscommunication between parties...that contract when we see it should hopefully spell out this scenario.

Brian

60/40 split of the whole deal or just buyer's premium? Believe OP thinks it's the whole deal. Which depending on the contents of the whole collection may be a fair deal. What OP should have done is take all the valuable cards and give those to the auction house for 100% + % of the BP (if possible). And then sell the rest as lot to wholesaler. 60/40 split of the whole collection on consignment at auction might come close. In Verkman's defense, hauling, storing, sorting, categorizing, marketing and selling someone's whole collection is a sh*t ton of work.

My interpretation is that the consignor is getting 60% of the hammer + buyers premium. If that is the case I think it is pretty shocking. My guess is that if in fact this is a six figure consignment that other auction houses like REA, LOTG, HA, Brockelman, etc would have given the consignor full hammer plus some BP points. That said, once you sign a contract that's it. People need to ask questions before they sign, not after. If it is a bad deal the consignor only has himself to blame.

From the ops post
Sounds like..if everything sells for 100k
Hes getting 60k + 12k bp
If that's the case he's getting robbed
If he's getting 100k + 12k...hes doing fine
So we need clarity

I note the response post does not actually contradict the main 60/40 split claim, concedes there is some split "extra fee", and gives specifics of only the buyers premium discussed "over the phone", rather than the actual legal contract.

We need the contract for anyone to judge or evaluate, OP. If it is too big to upload, someone can help shrink the file sizes.

The biggest item I’ve ever consigned was barely five figures so I’m pretty ignorant on the negotiations of larger consignments, but is 60% of BP realistic for collections this size? I’ve always assumed getting any large chunk of BP was reserved to ultra rare and ultra expensive items. (Ex: pages 1-5 of the REA catalog.)

Steve--My experience is that full hammer plus 60% of buyers premium is reserved for solidly six figure consignments. However, from Verkman's response it doesn't sound to me like that is what the original poster is getting.

If this doesn't work out to OP's satisfaction, it would probably be best to speak with an attorney. With the potential monetary value/amount, that would probably be best. I am certain that this is not the case here, just speaking figuratively, but there many corporate charlatans out there just chomping at the bit to swindle someone out of something valuable.
One of my brothers in law is an attorney, and I can't tell you how many times he has gotten me, my sisters, and other family members out of situations that could have ended very badly for us.

Would someone truly kick him back 60 percent of the buyer's premium in addition to the hammer price on a deal like this? That hardly sounds like something anyone would need to justify by reference to how much work is involved. I would think not, and that the agreement is for a 60/40 split of the TOTAL proceeds as others have said, but I guess we will find out.

Looking at this response, it does seem to only indicate that the consigner would be getting 60% of the buyer's premium. I believe the buyer's premium is 20%, so if this was the case the consigner would only be receiving 12% of the final winning bid amounts.

Of course this can't be correct, so once again a little better communication would hopefully clear things up.

Brian

-
OP, best of luck recovering from your life/health situation.

I know nothing of the amount/value of items in your collection, the negotiation that took place, or what industry standard is for an AH within those parameters, so I will defer to others responding to that aspect of the post.
-

Let me attempt to translate and I speak misconstrued emails, partial communications, and knee jerk reactions fairly fluently.

I believe the buyer will receive the full amount to the sale plus sixty percent of the hammer fee but will be assessed some unspecified fee for the the labor involved or for some lower priced lots...

I believe in general terms if an item sold for $1000 and the hammer fee was $200, the consignor would get $1120 but may be assessed an undetermined fee.

I think the fact that two auctionhouses showed up with trucks didn't help a lot. I can see the wisdom of it as big collections need a lot of outlets and some things would fit better with Lelands while others would fit better with CSA. This could have been allayed with better up-front communications, preferably in writing, which may or may not have happened.

I suspect if they had just shown up and offered 100% of the hammer fee and arranged for pick up later, everyone would have been happy.

Agreed. Numbers aside, the pickup was sloppy. Give the guy a couple days heads up to look through and enjoy his collection one last time.

the way it reads and the response sounds like the op would end up with $720 not $1120
if 1120 hes doing great if 720 hes being robbed
the op would not be complaining if hes getting 1120 on 1000

So, if it sells for $100,000 how much does he get ?

Additional information and contract added to original post
 

1) I didn't know Steve was coming, I had been in touch with Keith. Steve showed up with him. In looking at his consignment terms on his website under the "Integrity" section - see attached screenshot - he states they charge a 10% commission on items selling over $500 and 15% for those selling under $500.

2) While Steve says I am getting 60% of both the hammer and buyers premium that leaves the "house" taking 40% of the entire sale - considerably higher than advertised and considerably more than industry standard for such a valuable collection. I have already been contacted by another auction house telling me if I am successful getting the collection returned they would take it on consignment and give me 100% of the hammer + a percentage of the buyers premium.

3) Additionally, while I was looking for other items to show them, Steve was digging through and took items without my knowledge which I discovered after they were gone. My suspicion was confirmed when Steve sent me a list of items in his possession.

I think he was being proposed was not well explained or else not well understood.

Sounds like the consigner is getting 60% of all including the buyer’s premium. That doesnt seem out of line considering the esoteric nature of this collection (i would hardly call the noted items top sellers like a Ruth or a mainstream set or card), the fact that it seems like most of it is ungraded and unauthenticated (costs involved there as well), and it sounds like a lot of smaller items that all need to be catalogued and written up for sale, there is a lot of work here for Steve and crew. Many AH and dealers would have trouble selling the low end items at all, something that Steve can handle.

I have worked with Steve V for 36 years in this hobby and find him to have the highest integrity in the business, a knowledgable dealer who works hard for his consigners and clients. While we dont have all of the information involved, I dont think this is a fair portrayal by the OP.

Paul

The contract is not very detailed, so I can understand the consignor's confusion. In the first column, under "Schedule A: The Property > Description," it just says:

MASS CONSIGNMENT BETWEEN LELANDS/CLEAN SWEEP AUCTIONS
60% CONSIGNOR 40% AUCTION HOUSE
CASH ADVANCE $15,000
NO ADDITIONAL FEES
60/40 SPLIT [illegible] AUTH.

In the second column, under "Seller Reserve," it just says what appears to be:

60/40 SPLIT
40% LELANDS

There is no way that diner receipt looking piece of paper with scribble on it is what a company uses for a 6 figure consignment contract….right?

Sure looks like it.

So we have 3 options here. I think…

Consignor gets one of these:

• 60% of hammer and 60% of buyers premium
  
• 60% of total sale price (hammer + BP) same as above
  
• 60% of hammer

All of these are horrible for the consignor but with a $15k cash advance I could see them being valid unfortunately.

In response to the comment
If the consignor is getting 60% of the total
That's. Okay,?...wow...the auction house taking 40%
He might as well bring his cards to a loan shark
Extra work?...,isn't that the JOB of the auction house
To organize, take pictures etc
Geez

Now it makes sense why the rebuttal was incredibly vague about how the OP is untrue and the only specific was about a phone call and not the contract.

The contract sure seems to give the cosigner only 60%. I don't see the BP mentioned at all, but maybe that relates to the sellers reserve column. I don't know why, but I expected a vaguely professional real contract for a six figure plus deal. OP's claims seem to be on the main points factually correct.

Hard to see 60% (possibly even lower in reality with the vague or non-existent BP references in this 'contract') being fair and reasonable. If they did indeed cherry pick only the good items as OP said, and thus are not doing a ton of work with low value stuff to get rid of, OP has been bent over.

Points 1 and 2 are the same thing. Point 3, plus the email clarification Leon shared, becomes the same as points 1 and 2. Conclusion: it's a straight 60-40 split with no additional costs assigned to seller.

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV or Net54, but my guess is the $15,000 cash advance is something auction houses like to do, to seal the contract. In other words, I think the willing exchange of cash makes a contract more binding.

Lawyers, please correct me if I'm wrong.

What you see pictured here IS the contract in my opinion.

It is pretty clear that the consignor gets 60% of the hammer and additionally 60% of the buyer premium based on Steve's note.

So, if the hammer is $100K, he gets $72K minus his 60% of the authentication fees which could be substantial.

I doubt any other auction house would have done any better on the cut based on what is likely a very unorganized collection with little authentication and hundreds of hours of work involved.

Ebay takes 12.35% with the seller doing all of the work.

Sure, you give an auction house 5 items worth $100K they will be happy to give you the hammer and half of the BP as they make $10K for a few hours of work. Do that 100 times equals a million dollar take for probably less time than this collection will take to process and sell.

I know Steve Verkman well and he has always been very fair in my dealings with him.

You would have to know the actual volume and contents of the collection to make an intelligent evaluation of what is a fair deal to the consignor.

If you offered to sell outright a collection like this one that was worth $100K on the back end to any auction house, you would be very fortunate to get $50K for it. He will do much better in this scenario.

There truly are two sides to every story and we have almost no information on either of them but Steve has been in this hobby for 35 years or so and has a record to stand on that I trust based on 30+ years of experience dealing with him.

It may be possible to void or rescind any contract. It depends on the circumstances. On the one hand is an older gentleman with a severe medical problem. On the other, we have a very sophisticated auction house who negotiates these contract a lot. Hmmmm.

Do they have any termination clause listed?

It looks like the date on the contract is November 30, 2024. The OP didn't say when he talked to Steve about trying to renegotiate the terms, but if it's already been 2 months, I would think that a fair amount of time has already been spent working on the consigned items. Even if the contract was somehow broken, I would expect the auction house would have to be compensated for any work already done.

If consignor raised the issue early enough, consignee may be out of luck even if they did some work.

The contract says no additional fees so if there are significant costs for grading or authentication, those apparently are being paid from the 40% that the auction house is getting which does make the fee seem more reasonable.

The OP also has had a $15K advance against his eventual take for over two months.

Last line on the contract appears to state 60/40 split on authentication which likely means the same ratio for that expense as on the final take. At least, that is how I interpreted that line.

I doubt very seriously the AH is covering all of the authentication fees.

You're right. I missed that.

Would the prior line, stating no additional fees, contradict (or negate) that final line?

Also, on that last line, who pays the 60% and who pays the 40% isn't specified. In other places, the consignor GETS the 60%. Does that final line imply the consignor gets, or pays, the 60%?

Would that ambiguity create a legal loophole?

Based on Steve's response via Leon, it looks to me like the consignor gets 60% of the total sale (hammer plus BP) and the AH gets 40%. In a vacuum, if the collection really took 2 trucks to haul away, I agree with Steve that that sounds like a massive amount of work (and payroll for his employees) to go through and scan and list. That's just looking at the monetary part.

It would be interesting to hear from other AH owners on how they structure taking a massive collection that is going to take them tons of hours to bring to market.

I would be more worried that the contract doesn't detail what was taken. I am not casting aspersions, I have no reason to believe that anyone is being dishonest, but we advise our clients to make sure that their contract is itemized to a degree that they feel protected.

As for the 60/40 split. I definitely take it to mean of the total sale price including BP.

If this was for one $100,000 item it would be nuts, but if it is for a massive collection I honestly don't think it's out of line.

When we do a massive collection it's almost always on a tiered schedule so they pay less the better the items are, but the cheap stuff is going to cost a fairly significant percentage. 40% might be a bit more than we wind up averaging over a whole collection, but it honestly doesn't strike me as all that weird.

If other companies are offering him 100% plus BP I hope he can get the collection back because that would be stellar if we're actually talking about two truckloads worth a few hundred thousand. That's a LOT of inexpensive items that take just as much work to do properly as the good stuff. I'd worry that these other offers would only cherry pick him even further so that they're only taking the premium items to give him those terms.

The OP who appears to be a knowledgeable collector could have shopped around for a better deal, no? I am not seeing any grounds to rescind this contract. It certainly doesn't sound unconscionable or anything.

A consignment agreement should include details about the parties involved, a description of the goods being consigned, pricing and payment terms, the consignment period, the percentage split of sales between the consignor and consignee, insurance details, any liability releases, and provisions for termination of the agreement.
Key elements to include in a consignment agreement:
Parties involved:
Names and contact information of the consignor (the person providing the goods) and the consignee (the seller).
Description of goods:
Detailed information about the items being consigned, including quantities, specifications, serial numbers, and any identifying details.
Pricing and payment terms:
The selling price of the goods, the commission percentage the consignee will receive, and the payment schedule for the consignor.
Consignment period:
The duration of the agreement, outlining the start and end dates when the consignee is authorized to sell the goods.
Ownership of goods:
Clearly stating that the consignor retains ownership of the goods until they are sold to a customer.
Insurance:
Who is responsible for insuring the goods while they are in the consignee's possession.
Marketing and display requirements:
Any specific instructions on how the consignee should market and display the consigned items.
Liability releases:
Provisions regarding potential damage to the goods while in the consignee's care and who is responsible for such damage.
Termination clause:
Conditions under which either party can terminate the agreement, including potential penalties for early termination.
Dispute resolution:
How any disputes arising from the agreement will be handled, such as through mediation or arbitration.
Governing law:
The jurisdiction where the contract will be enforced.

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I know lawyers look for detailed contracts but these are very basic. There is a clause somewhere in there that states your signature makes it a binding contract based on the terms agreed to or some statement like that.

I believe the consignor pays 60% of the authentication fees based on the way it is written but that is a guess on my part.

You can still get out of a binding contract and that's what a consignment agreement is.

Well said Chad, are you in contract law?

Anytime I've consigned I've sent a spreadsheet with every card listed and confirmed each card received by the auction house. Not realistic in OPs case but is also the reason I try to keep my collection to 500 cards max of desirable cards.

I'm also empathetic to OPs situation, letting go of a 40 year collection during a stressful life/health event cannot be easy.

I think Verkman needs to step up and explain how he views this transaction.

If the OP is unhappy with this contract, he needs to speak with an attorney; see what legal recourse he has, if any. It's not going to be resolved via a card collecting forum.

I am sure he probably thinks a few things you should do too, Jay. :) I don't think Steve owes anyone an explanation more than I quoted him.

From what I have read, seen, and know, I don't think it's right to keep this thread on the front page to the detriment of the auction house, who has an auction closing soon. It doesn't look like they did anything wrong to me. Contracts can always be negotiated. I have done good and bad deals. The consignor didn't get a bad deal here, from what has been shown. But it can be talked about ad nauseam in this other section.

Sorry to be harsh and of course for the OP's circumstances, but it looks like a case of consignor's regret to me and IMO just from general principles unless this deal is somehow unconscionable under industry standards, or is somehow missing enough basic terms to make it enforceable which I doubt (sure the ideal contract would cover a host of details but that's not necessary for a binding contract), then the OP will not be able to rescind it. Plus it's already been partially performed, as Leland's with the OP's consent packed the items and took them away. And maybe he got an advance too, I'd have to reread it.

No, but I did stay at a holiday inn.😀

Haha!

Something I noticed in the OP's first post is the following parenthetical statement that I don't believe anyone has mentioned:

(they DID NOT take it all as discussed, but cherry picked all of the more expensive items)

So the auction house did not take everything, but just what they viewed as more expensive? And this took two trucks? I understand that there is a lot of effort to sort through a large volume of items, especially if not super well-organized, but the OP claims this bounty was cherry-picked. To me it sounds like the auction house made a one-day determination of the more valuable items, and seeing it in this light, gave the consignor a really low percentage of the final winning auction bids. I suggest the OP try to come up with a list of what was taken by the auction company, and let us know what that is.

If nothing else we can be on the lookout for when these items come up for auction, and see if the auction house has indeed been fair with their consignment offer.

brianp(arker)-beme

They came with 2 trucks, but did not take it all, so maybe what they took didn't require both trucks.

My personal view, strictly as a hobbyist, is that 40% of the net after authentication fees is a terrible deal and borderline exploitative in a situation like the consignor describes (assuming the recitation is accurate as to how it went down). I also find the "it's a lot work" excuse to be unconvincing; we all work hard. Probably the best thing to do is for the AHs to return the items and tear up the contract, and for the OP to return the advance (or to agree on what is to be kept to repay the advance). Legalities aside, the consignor is very unhappy and the situation is just distasteful enough to make it a potential PR nightmare. In this extremely competitive hobby, it is probably a business mistake to hide behind the contract and get trashed as a result. Happy customers may tell a friend or two; unhappy customers are sure to tell ten. I wonder how many readers here made the decision not to go with Lelands or Clean Sweep as a result of what they have read.

Now, as a lawyer, if I was consulted by a CA resident who appears to be a senior and in health-related distress, my go-to would be the financial elder abuse laws. In my state, one has to be very, very careful in dealing with seniors because the legal consequences of playing fast and loose with their assets are punishing. It is a hellscape of heavy civil and potential criminal penalties; one of my clients went to jail over a transaction that might not have been treated as a crime if his counterparty had been a 45 year old man instead of an old woman. If we take the OP at face value, it appears that some items that the consignor did not think were part of the deal were taken, and that the basis for the high fees (lots of work) may not ring true if there was substantial cherry-picking. One of the things that raises my concern if I was representing the auctioneers is the lack of detail in the contract. That, plus the two-on-one, speedy dealmaking in the consignor's home, are factors that can go into a determination of potential elder financial abuse. There is just enough doodie stink on the potpourri to be concerning.

Wow
 

I'm flabbergasted that there are people on here who think 40% is reasonable
I dont care if there's 1000 items to be sold
In this market the auction house could easily auction it off in 3 auctions if necessary...no extra work
That excuse is total bs..THATS THEIR JOB...I know auction houses that would line up to take that consignment and give the consignor 100 %...not only that but if its an easy 100k
consignment AH would give consignor at least $30k
up front

Without knowing more details about the actual contents of the collection (aside from the few items mentioned by the OP) and how well it was or wasn't organized, it seems pretty hard to judge what a reasonable split of the auction proceeds would be.

I've spent the last few months going through a collection that a friend of mine had which filled 2/3 of a 20 foot UHaul and had almost no organization to it at all. Knowing how much time and effort I put in just to figure out what I had, to say that an auction house could easily take care of a collection that maybe filled 2 trucks of unknown size seems a little unrealistic. Sure, that's their job, but just like any job, the more work involved, the higher the cost.

Is this a new policy? Feel like I have seen threads that could have been detrimental to an auction house during a live auction on the main board plenty of times.

I don't know if different ads appear for different users, but the banner on my front page has a prominent Leland's ad. I imagine that has a lot to do with it.

Im not. This board loves AHs.

+1

Perhaps the original poster could, as fully as possible, list what was in the consignment. Any images would also be helpful. Things should have been fully inventoried in the contract, but save that, a public list now may help to alleviate possible issues later. Other questions that the consignor may want to try to resolve are how and for what amount is the collection insured for loss or damage. As a SoCal resident I can vouch for the fact that the unexpected can happen. Also, how will the consignor be compensated. My guess is that the auctioning of these items will take some time. Will the consignor be paid as things are sold or only at the end.

I just bought a graded card collection of 8 two row shoe boxes that fit in the back seat of my car on 1 side that had 1200 graded cards in it. Can you honestly envision two trucks full being a measly 1000 items. Likely tens of thousands of uncatalogued items.

So the auction house will give the consignor 100% of the hammer, part of the buyer premium, and a $30K advance when their final take would be less than $20K. What world are you living in?

No new policy. Every situation is different. My position stands.
Thanks
.

It's also a country club comprised of very wealthy arm chair "sea lawyers" who know everything about everything. If you're not in the club, or go counter to the club's unwritten rules of buying and selling very expensive (pocket change to them) graded cards they just ignore you.

I am not offering an opinion on the OP's situation. If anything the facts are so freakin' opaque, and incomplete, and conflicting as to what the hell even happened here, any opinion on this board appears to me to more of a guess.

I will say that it's amazing to me how many people on the board denigrate AHs at every opportunity and seem to have little clue as to how much work they (or at least the good ones) actually do. Canvassing for items, collecting, sorting, organizing, handling sending off to grading, investigating and researching, photographing, preparing a catalog, doing mailing, etc. Some of you guys seem to believe that these guys running AHs are sitting on their asses all day long smoking cigars just waiting for money to pour in. It's absurd. To the extent I have any visibility into how they do business, it seems to be a shit ton of of work to build out an auction, deal with consignors, deal with bidders, answer phone calls the night of the auction, deal with pissed off consignors and bidders after the auction, ship hundreds of boxes out, track down missing boxes, etc.

Occasionally I sell a few items a month on eBay and it's much more of a pain in the ass than I really need.

Auction houses are legitimate businesses that perform tasks and functions, and don't just sit there waiting for money to roll in.

Cherry-picking the collection (if true) and taking 40% of the cut is a really, really bad deal for the consignor.

No reasonable person should have signed this contract when it was presented to them, for, if nothing else, that it is more like someone's notes than an actual contract and is wildly incomplete. A consignor need not sign anything put in front of them and should not, the auction house obviously is looking out for their own financial interests, and the consignor should know to do the same for themselves and do their due diligence.

This 'contract' is so poorly phrased and done that it should be pretty easy to get out of.

An inventory list would complete the evidentiary part from the consignors end.

It would be interesting to hear how the OP's post was "not accurate", as the production of the contract seems to validate most of them.

We can further deduce its probably not a fair deal to the consignor because talk of it had to be banned to the watercooler to reduce eyes on it, which does not happen to threads that reflect well on Lelands, only those that reflect poorly (previous example: https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=276894)

You are just an ignorant asshole sometimes that has a part of a story and then you make crap up. That thread you listed was posted 8 days after my wife of 25 yrs died tragically. I wasn't dealing with Josh Evans at the time and did what I did. Like I say, every situation is different. That said, just in case you don't like it here...

Did the OP already accept a cash advance?

Yes, I am all bad things and every insult is correct. What crap did I make up though in that post? At least 2 threads criticizing Lelands have, in provable fact, been sent to the watercooler. I said nothing about any deal you may have with Evans, much less when you had/have such dealings - that was a completely different poster in a different post in the thread.

Is there a rule that watercooler banishings cannot be brought up? Several people in the last thread and at least 2 others in this one are guilty of it too without receiving these insults or a ban.

Plenty of them on the board


Myself included.


A-- H---

Doesn't stand for auction house!

I was going to stay out of it but I changed my mind.

I was good friends with Joe from the mid 80's to the early 2000s. I saw a good chunk of his stuff. He had the best Rusty Staub collection in the world, virtuallly everything that existed that he could get.

About 90% of his collection is Rusty Staub. It includes multiples of every Topps card, all the Topps Test issues such as the 68 3D (I think he had 2 or 3 of them), Action Stickers, Discs, Punch-out, Greatest Moments you name it, he had at least 1 of each.

He had several original Jerseys, bats, balls, gloves, a zillion autographed items including mostly photos. You name it. if it was Staub, he had it.

I always thought it was insane that someone could be so obsessed with one player, especially a non hall-of-famer and I knew when he eventually sold the collection most of it would be hard to sell.

He should have gotten 100% or more for all the "cream" in his collection, but all the photos, newspapers, etc. I could see him getting only 50% at most due to the sheer volume.

Phil G

I never said anything about a ban. If someone gets banned then they did something they were asked not to do or they didn't follow normal rules. You might read the rules if you want to know what is in there. They have been posted forever....

Yes, I have seen them. So, what did I make up? You directly accused me of making crap up, which would be lying. Where did I do this? The documentary record supports exactly what I said, and I even linked it in my claim.

How about PMing Leon instead of ruining another thread with your off topic crap.:D

I am not spending my day arguing with you. Please argue with others. thanks
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Threads banished to the watercooler for criticizing Lelands is on topic in a thread in which that very thing happens :). It was public because Leon chose to publicly and falsely accuse me of lying.