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Off Topic: Los Angeles Members Please Check In
These fires are massive and roaring through inhabited areas. Hoping all are safe. One broke out near us early this morning. No immediate threat; it is about 4 miles away and being blown in the opposite direction, but the air quality has gone to crap. I am basically hunkered down at home for the day, just in case the winds shift and I have to gather the animals and move.
Anyone in LA, please let us know you are safe. |
I have been watching the news, as others have. Devastating fires. I hope things get under control soon.
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Fires in the Los Angeles Area
My daughter lives in Pasadena, about one mile east of the Pasadena Convention Center, near Lake and Del Mar. She called my wife and me informing her that it was recommended everyone in her area voluntarily evacuate. We immediately drove up from where we live in Whitter to pick her and her roomate up to stay with us until the all clear message is announced. Traffic flowed very well on the 210, but the smokey air and fallen trees around my daughter's area reminded us that anything is possible.
I hope to see you at the Pasadena show in a few weeks. Phil aka Tere1071 |
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Sadly, my Son-in-Law's grandparents lost their home today in the Pasadena area. I can't imagine losing everything. Horrible.
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I have a home at Washington and Lake in Pasadena, which is just south of Alta Dena. We evacuated late last night, but I drove to my house early this morning at 4 am to see the fires and check on my house. I drove up Lake for around a mile north of Washington, and that's where you could begin to see smaller fires, which had been started by floating embers from the bigger fires closer to the mountain. There are something like 200 total smaller fires that all make up the Eaton fire. Thick smoke is everywhere and so are downed trees from the 70 mph Santa Ana winds from yesterday. Fortunately, the winds died a lot today. Pasadena has so many trees that it's a match box waiting to be ignited. We are staying in a hotel now, but I'm still working during the day.
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Thank you, Phil. Much appreciated.
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you are in our thoughts and prayers
Hoping for safety and peace of mind for all that are going through this situation. Reminds us all of how fragile our lives can be and how quickly things can change. Keeping all Californians including my Net54 collector friends in prayer during this difficult time.
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I've heard from several collectors in the LA area; all are OK.
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Greg |
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My thoughts and prayers are with the entire California community.
Bob |
Seems like between wildfires, earthquakes, etc., California is a difficult place to live. I don’t think I’d quite have the stamina that some of you guys do. Best of luck to those affected.
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Unbelievable destruction and the fires are still burning and spreading. Pacific Palisades has been nearly wiped off the map. It's truly devastating. There are large areas affected by these fires and my heart aches for what these people are going through. Stay strong and we are praying for you.
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Living in California
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Thank you for your kind thought, James. My daughter is fine and the flames at this point aren't moving in her direction. Once there is containment, we will take back home. Phil aka Tere1071 |
My thoughts are with everyone. Our daughter lives in San Pedro, and my neighbor is a fire fighter in Glendale. We are closely watching everything that's happening. I'm in San Diego county and we lost our electricity yesterday. SDG&E shuts off the power in the rural areas as a safety precaution.
My wife and I are hoping everyone in the fire areas are safe. Losing a home to fire is devastating regardless if it is a small little house or a mansion in the Hollywood Hills. It carries the same impact. |
God bless
God bless...Jerry
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Similar to the Palisades, Altadena has nearly been totally destroyed. With the high wind speeds over 60 mph on Tuesday and early Wed, embers were flying everywhere. I drove within a few feet of several smaller fires. Very scary and surreal experience, and because there were not enough fire fighters and water, many homes were simply burning to the ground with no attempts to save them. Over 1,000 structures destroyed. It looks like a war zone! Sad for all the people who lost their homes!
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Incredibly sad. I feel for all who’ve been impacted and those worrying that they might be.
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Unfortunately, the last I heard, they only made it out with a change of clothes. Everything else was lost. |
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I'm in North Hollywood (which is generally nowhere near actual Hollywood) and while we have no fire concerns, the crazy winds were a concern while they were happening. Our only issues were being without power for the better part of two days, but my burning man alum wife had her solar powered generators and candles up and running pretty quick. We lost cable / internet before the power went out, and while we got power back late last night, we just in the last hour or so have gotten back on line.
First I cheked the email backup which is pretty legendary, and I'm ignoring it. Next were all my go to porn sites of which net54 is near the top of the list, they all managed to survive me not being around. This thread needs a card... |
My wife and I stayed up late last night talking about all the LA fires. I told her that my gut says incompetence is partly to blame for the quick spread of the two biggest fires, Palisades and Eaton. I saw the Eaton fire firsthand on Wednesday morning, and there were no firefighters trying to save homes in the southern portion of Altadena. I saw dozens of homes burning in a span of 20 minutes, and there was not one firetruck present in the area I was in. Apparently, there were not enough firefighters available. In my opinion, that is not a sufficient excuse. Not having enough firefighters is a sign of incompetence in my opinion. When I saw the fire up close, we were already 12 hours into the Eaton fire, yet the fire was still burning out of control.
Remember, we all know that brush fires can get big fast. Heck, my family and I had to be evacuated in 2018 due to the Woolsey fire! And in that 2018 fire, the fire burned uncontrolled all the way to the sea. If not for the sea, how far would that fire have burned? When did it become acceptable for fires to burn out of control and destroy thousands of homes? The other big problem is that there was not enough water to fight the two largest fires. The fire-hydrants went dry not long after the fires started. So it appears that California's leadership was not prepared for these very large fires that grew quickly due to very fast winds. The winds were part of the problem but poor planning and slow response were also to blame in my opinion. |
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"The leadership wasn't prepared..."
I'd like to know, given a colossal population who are determined to live there, how the leadership could have been. |
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I served on a nuclear sub in the late 1990s. After each torpedo drill where we engaged a simulated enemy sub, we deconstructed every minute detail to determine what we did right and what we did wrong. In the case of Eaton, the fire started around 6:30 pm on Tuesday, and the Santa Ana winds were blowing at 60 mph sustained winds. Obviously, that’s incredibly fast! But I also experienced the 2018 Woolsey fire, which raged not far from the current fires, and in that fire, the Santa Ana winds played a big role too. In Woolsey and Eaton, the fires burned uncontrolled. So after Woolsey, what lessons were learned? The Wolsey fire burned 100,000 acres and destroyed over 1,600 structures. Also, the 2018 Camp fire destroyed 153,336 acres, caused 85 fatalities, displaced more than 50,000 people, and destroyed more than 18,000 structures. So it is incorrect to say that we had not seen a fire this big before. Are we to accept that some fires are too large to control? That we are powerless to prevent destruction of thousands of structures? That widespread destruction, hardship, and loss of life is inevitable? Well, I’m a submariner, a career military officer, and I will never accept those terms. We must understand what our leaders did right and what they did wrong, and I am currently under the belief, that there is a lot of blame to go around. Should our leaders be pointing fingers and assessing blame? No, because they must focus on saving lives and homes. But we as concerned citizens should be asking questions because these fires are still raging and we must ensure our leaders know we will not accept incompetence. As the fires continue to burn and more homes are threatened, our leaders must have the requisite sense of urgency. Citizens help promote that. |
I am not from LA, prior to this once in a lifetime perfect storm of an event, was anyone protesting that there were not enough firefighters to battle a potential disaster, or is this hindsight?
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People seem to forget or are not aware that such large fires are not unprecedented in California. Just a few years ago (2018) the Camp fire destroyed 153,336 acres, caused 85 fatalities, displaced more than 50,000 people, and destroyed more than 18,000 structures, causing an estimated $16.5 billion in damage. At the same time that the Camp fire was killing thousands, the Woolsey fire mowed down over 100,000 acres and destroyed over 1,500 homes.
So very large, simultaneous brush fires are not unprecedented in California. If some do not want to hold leadership accountable and then accept that these large fires will destroy everything in its path and burn uncontrolled, that’s part of the problem. I’ve been evacuated twice now (Woolsey in 2018 and now Eaton) and in both cases, the fire got to within a half mile of my two homes. I think when you are so close to the problem, the urgency for answers is much greater. Also, I am dangerously close to losing my homeowners insurance. Insurance companies are simply saying no; they won’t insure certain homes. |
Thought the excerpt from a Wall Street Journal article, written by someone who lost his home, would be of interest to the forum (emphasis mine):
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In Chicago they had "Shot Spotter", until the new Mayor cancelled it this past September. That's not really the point. It was used to detect when gunshots went off, so police could be dispatched immediately. Police on the way b4 911 called.
In this day and age, and maybe with the use of drones or heat maps or what have you, how come they can't detect a fire before it becomes massive & spreads. I know that may be easier said then done, but if you had some detection type service once they are alerted to a fire, maybe they can provide an all out assault to stop or contain. |
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:rolleyes: |
And people probably applauded her for getting the budget more under control even if it was a small amount relatively. Can't have it both ways.
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"While water supplies from local fire hydrants are not designed to extinguish wildfires over large areas, losing supplies from fire hydrants likely impaired the effort to protect some homes and evacuation corridors."
~ Governor Gavin Newsom Exactly. if the city (fire hydrant) water system had been re-charged from local reservoirs (there are two large ones within 30 miles of the Eaton fire), could more homes have been saved? A local Altadena man's charred body was found next to his house, and in his hands was the water hose he was using to try to save his house. |
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Are some of you actually pretending $500K to other city services would keep fires from burning houses?
This is LA. The city gives 1.9 billion to cops. Billions. 1.9 of them. 900 million to the fire department, cutting 17.5 million of it burnt down a bunch of houses? This isn't a money or budgeting issue. It is perfectly fine to think your money is funding stuff that isn't needed, or it's wasted, or whatever, but budget allocations to other things and small fire training cuts aren't helping save houses. Houses aren't burning because incompetent people don't know how to put out fires. Water, water availability, land/scrub management, wind...some things can be controlled, some can't, but it's not money keeping things from happening. |
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Tired of idiots spreading lies and misinformation when people are suffering. |
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Maybe Gossage or Hrabosky are free to help fight the fires? They were excellent firemen in their prime. Maybe they still got it!
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I doubt the $17.5M made a material difference here. I also doubt that California has to burn down every 1-3 years and we have to have water shortages frequently, and there is nothing we can do about the problems. Perhaps they could not direct as much fresh water into the ocean as they do now. A host of measures and ideas have been proposed long before this particular fire, with very little ever actually being done. Current California policy is clearly not working as this serious problem gets worse, but of course the most important thing is government never ever be held accountable or criticized since there is no meaningful opposition in the state to blame policy on. Attention is rarely focused on solving practical problems, instead of publicity stunts and virtue signaling about meaningless drivel.
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“Nearly 100 fire engines, trucks, and ambulances are out of service awaiting repairs. LAFD is already severely understaffed and experiencing unsustainable call levels and having these million dollar rigs out of service only makes things worse.”
~ LA Councilwoman Traci Park, Aug 6, 2024. "As an all-risk fire and rescue agency serving more than four million people, the LAFD is one of the busiest and most understaffed big city fire departments in the entire country." United Firefighters of LA (UFLAC), Sept. 6, 2024 “My message is the fire department needs to be properly funded. "It’s not." - LA Fire Chief Crowley. Jan 10, 2025. The $7 million reduction in overtime hours "severely limited the Department's capacity to prepare for, train for, and respond to large-scale emergencies.” - LA Fire Chief Crowley. Dec 4, 2024 “The LAFD is extremely understaffed and under-resourced.” - LA Fire Chief Crowley. Dec 17, 2024 Right, it does not appear that money was an issue. |
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This doesn't seem to be a left/right weird ass political issue. This is a big deal that needs real solutions. The billions of personal property lost is a big deal. The displaced economic resources fighting this fire is a big deal. If blame is really important, the damage is so extensive this very specific series of fires will be studied and results/suggestions will be made. This event is so destructive it will change policy. What changes are to be made should matter more than anything. Money, hiring more people, and building new stations will most likely be part of these changes. While labor seems to be a major concern with these current fires, there is no amount of in-house labor or firetrucks driving to locations that have an impact on what is happening as much as water availability, localized water demand issues at a given moment, brush/land management, wind, etc... |
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The real culprit for this once in a generation catastrophe is a confluence of zero rain fall (It's been over 75 years since Los Angeles has had less rain during this period) and hurricane force Santa Ana winds that blow the opposite way of normal wind currents west to east from the ocean. When the high winds downed any air support on Tuesday night, there's no amount of increased budget that would prevent what took place. You also have to remember how spread out Los Angeles is and with 4+ fires starting within 48 hours of one another stretched resources thin. And logistically it takes 2+ days to get personnel and resources from outside the county, state and country to get to the affected areas. Right now there are water planes from Mexico and Canada in the fight as well as firefighters from many neighboring states. |
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May I also remind you that municipal governments are elected to take care of municipal matters such as water, sanitation, garbage removal and roads and not to advance any kind of social agenda? Quote:
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It appears that yours is to make excuses for politicians wasting taxpayers' money so that less is available for what's really critical. :mad: |
Yeah, we should let those homeless people rot and not take care of them, especially if they're gay or trans. Sure, SOME of these expenses listed by FOX seem egregious, but that's probably true of the budget of any major city anywhere, or state, or the federal government, regardless of the political leanings of the leadership. And as AJ posted, I don't think there's been any showing of any causal connection here. Nor has there been any showing that all the money spent on these programs would have gone to firefighting, there are probably lots of departments competing for city funds.
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There is a wide reasonable chasm between funding drug needles for abusing illegal substances and transgender cafes for homeless people and not giving a rats ass. I'd love to stop having my money spent on the dumbest anti-science shit and enabling drug addicts. There is plenty of tax money to solve the real, actual problems in this state, from fires to homeless.
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Perhaps you are skeptical of the CDC, and in some areas there is reason to be, but according to them, and probably many other agencies, needle exchange programs benefit more than the "abusers."
https://www.cdc.gov/syringe-services...php/index.html |
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:mad: |
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It doesn't seem Ontario is doing much better. What do you suggest?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...bers-1.7426934 |
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Okay, done.
:) |
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Never mind, not worth it.
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:) A very curious use of quotation marks indeed. :rolleyes: |
"The LAFD budget for the 2023-2024 fiscal year of $837 million was also dwarfed by the city’s homeless budget of $1.3 billion." See Note below for URL.
What? really? You're telling me that hard working families, businesses, and homeowners have to take a back seat to the homeless? That is a sign of incompetence. I am willing to help homeless but not at the expense of safety for the men and women who are out there being productive. Oh, and since I work downtown near skid row, I know first hand that the $1.3 billion has really turned that place around. NOT. I have to wonder where that money is really going. Note: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...b9d0e6b5&ei=10 |
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Perhaps one day California will deal with actual problems instead of this kind of crap, but I doubt it. Subsidizing illegal drug use and denying human biology are higher up the priority list because reasons. |
It's not nearly so simple as branding these people "losers" or morally deficient.
https://invisiblepeople.tv/how-homel...their%20escape. |
All pretty surreal. Have numerous colleagues and friends who lost their homes.
I live in the hills of Studio City, just over the ridge from the Sunset Fire. I think we were fortunate because by the time the Sunset Fire broke out in the Hollywood Hills, the wind had calmed down considerably, which enabled the FD choppers to attack the fire from the air. Having the Hollywood Reservoir right there also helped with knocking that fire out with relative ease. I think had the Sunset Fire started in the first 24-48 hours of this ordeal, when the winds were raging, Studio City and Hollywood likely would not have gone unscathed. |
Adam, I am okay. Though I have 9 friends who lost homes. Thanks for asking. A tragic time.
Meanwhile, why is some Canadian dude crapping on my city while we suffer? He probably voted for Rob Ford. Government funding is what it is. But tell me what a billion dollars more would have done to stop 80mph winds, grounded Super Scoopers (thanks Canada for helping!), and generationally dry conditions? Not a darn thing, that's what. Let history be the judge if and where the blame should be laid. The current blame game only serves ideological division with its trollish, cherry-picked facts. Give it a rest. Angelinos, hang in there. A few more days of this wind. |
I agree, Dewey, and I am glad you are OK. We are too. We have family who evac'ed yesterday from the hills in Encino and we are all hoping that the winds reverse a bit and the fire doesn't crest the Santa Monica Mountains and burn down to the bottom.
I shake my head at the hubris of those who think there is any amount of spending that could have stopped these firestorms. We cannot control the winds or the rain. We have never had hurricane force Santa Ana winds (a category 1 is 75 mph; we topped out at 94 mph last week) during the middle of the driest 'rainy' season to date on record with single-digit humidity. I only know of one force that can intervene to stop that...and it ain't us puny mortals. Mistakes were made but they had nothing to do with finance, and it is a control fantasy to think otherwise. They had to do with building in the middle of arroyos and box canyons. Those decisions date back a hundred years. I've been part of the construction defect litigation community for 30+ years and an open secret among us practitioners is that the hillsides of Los Angeles should never have been developed and are a disaster waiting to happen. The usual issues are landslides and slope failures, but fire is going to be the issue going forward. Please keep a good thought for the people of this state the way we kept a good thought for the victims of the hurricanes a few months ago across the south and leave the feuding and political horseshit for some other time. It doesn't belong in this thread and is unseemly, peevish and cruel. |
As usual, I agree completely with Adam.
A $100 billion dollar fire budget wouldn't have stopped what we have witnessed here in the last week, and there's a good chance it will be repeating in the next week. Meanwhile, I was one of many who had their insurance coverage cancelled shortly before it might have been needed. Only a coincidence I'm sure. Doug |
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I have an idea. Maybe we (including corporations) could just be a bit nicer to each other and maybe do what's right even though it's not always the absolute best thing for our individual (or corporate) bottom line? I hear there's a book that makes a big deal about "do unto others". Oh wait, that's not how the world actually works. Even though a quite large percentage of people claim to follow that book, or others very much like it. Ok, never mind. |
Unbelievable, but I shouldn't be surprised, some are on here defending the absolute stupidity and utter incompetence of the California govt.
Has climate change been mentioned yet or orange man bad in this convo? That would also not surprise me. If people would have been vaccinated and boosted, these forest fires likely would have never happened!!!! Wake up people!!! https://x.com/JesseBWatters/status/1...Q26s%3D19&mx=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfbU2L3Kjl4 |
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Anymore political crap in this thread is probably going to get deleted, followed by an impolite PM. Thanks for the discussion otherwise. Hopefully they will get the fires under control soon. It's hard to comprehend when seeing the pictures. . . |
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