eras committee candidates baseball HOF
 

Does anyone know what date the eras committee will announce their HOF candidates? last year they did it on Oct 19th? This is for
The Classic Baseball Era, consisting of the period prior to 1980 and including Negro Leagues and pre-Negro Leagues stars.

November 4th according to a tweet by Jay Jaffe.

https://x.com/jay_jaffe/status/1849569944712905089

Chad

Dick Allen
Ken Boyer
John Donaldson
Steve Garvey
Vic Harris
Tommy John
Dave Parker
Luis Tiant

Allen missed in 2022. I don't think he's eligible again so soon?

Vic Harris and John Donaldson from the Negro Leagues?

It’s Cobra’s time.

Vic Harris and John Donaldson from the Negro Leagues?

I hope Harris gets in. I purchased a Type I photo of him a couple of years ago. Can’t be too many of them floating around haha.

They voted on Donaldson recently too. I hope that isn't the final list.

Maybe they changed the rules but I read Allen isn't eligible again until 2026. I think it's every 4 years. Not seeing anywhere online where the list has been officially released. I thought Boyer was up last time too. I think both have legitimate cases given today's standards. I don't see any daylight between Tommy John and Jim Kaat. I'm a big Tiant fan. Parker feels to me like Hall of Very Very Good. Garvey no.

I'd be fine with all the major leaguers listed by MuncieNolePAZ (I had said ballot but looking back Jaffe said the ballot won't be released until tomorrow) except Garvey and Parker - their basic stats far outstrip their overall value.

I don't think Vic Harris belongs. Harris was an outfielder with an okay glove and a career OPS+ of 112. BR places his career value at 10.6 WAR for 645 games - and that's assuming that the Negro Leagues were 100% as good as the white major leagues, which I am skeptical of. I think he'd be close to the the worst hall of famer if inducted - probably better than Tommy McCarthy but not better than many others.

I have an open mind about Donaldson - he's an unusual case and I'd have to study his career deeply to be sure either way. His brief time in BLK/NLB is uneven - he seems to have been very good in 1918 and 1919 but undistinguished in other years. Because of that, the case for his greatness would have to depend heavily on his time pitching in the semi-pros. He dominated there, but a thorough study of the quality of his opposition would have to be made before we can know what that really means.

Donaldson was voted on in 2021 as part of the early days ballot. I would like to see new players considered.

No love for George "Tubby" Scales... *sigh*

Just refreshed my memory. Where the heck was he from 1930-34 when he had no stats? Those would have been his peak years.

I am not sure why his, or anyones, stats with the Montgomery Grey Sox arent included in any tallies. '32 was when the Negro Southern League was a de facto major league but the numbers never show up. Likely not enough box scores to complete the season, but it seems they should add what has been found.

Me I would vote for Tommy John #1

His pitching stats should get him in AND he has a surgery named for him. That covers the fame.

Honestly, any one on this list is worthy and it would be a shame to have either Allen or Tiant go in after they passed when we could have gotten them in when still alive

Rich

Vic Harris was a tremendous ballplayer and an even better manager. He managed the Grays to first place 8 times in 11 seasons and never had a losing record. He was sort of Joe Torre candidate. Although I think there are many more deserving negro league players. starting with Lundy, Marcelle, Beckwith, Scales, Wright, Poles, Redding, Home Run Johnson, Oms, Rap Dixon, Fats Jenkins, Nip Winters, etc. But Harris was the best manager, hands down, and deserves to be in the HOF for that alone.

Seriously bizarre list. I just read that Vic Harris was also just voted on in 2022.

This category is supposed to be for players passed over but about if the list was voted on in the last 5 years. What has changed in terms of their candidacy in that short time?

If you put the same names over and over and over and over on a small ballot with a small discussion group voting, you’ll eventually get those names voted in.

Steve Garvey would be my pick

Is there a source that this is in fact the ballot? I am not finding one, and I am reading pretty definitively Allen for example is not eligible for another year.

What an absolutely boring list.

Ah. I guess in 2022 they restructured the era committees so the old rules about eligibility after rejection must be moot. To your point, it does seem if you put people up over and over again eventually more and more will get in.

Boyer and Tiant would head my list. And I'm ok with the rest, although I have reservations about Garvey.

A vote tor Dick Allen - nearly his entire career (1963-1977) played during a modern pitcher-dominated dead ball era - yet a .912 OPS , that and his 162 game average is much better than any other hitters on the list ..
Admittedly his abbreviated career doesn’t help

I feel like usually the ballot is quickly broadcast around the online baseball world but I’ve seen this ballot basically nowhere except the Hall’s own site.


I would vote for some of these guys, but it kind of gets ridiculous when it’s the same handful of names the selection committee wants to put in over and over and over again. This format guarantees they will pretty much all be out in eventually. It’s not like we have a shortage of candidates who merit honest consideration, and have not had 25 chances. A number of 19th century players for example I don’t think have ever seriously been considered. While I would vote for Dick Allen, just putting him on every ballot until he eventually gets selected is not a very honest or meritorious selection process. How you frame and set up votes effectively determines eventual outcomes, and that’s what they keep doing with the vet committee’s here - feed the same names to a very small group of voters until those names get picked.

Steve Garvey has been on the ballot 20 times, including 5 by the veteran's committee (2011, 2014, 2018, 2020, and now 2024). He got 37.5% of the vote in 2020. I don't understand why they can't give someone else a chance, especially after he didn't come close to getting in the last time.

Dick Allen has been on the ballot 21 times, including 7 by the Veteran's committee. But I believe he missed by only 1 vote in both 2015 and 2022 (68.8%).

Too bad they couldn't Allen in during his lifetime.
Same goes for Tiant. (And Minnie Minoso and Gil Hodges).

I think Allen and Tiant are both deserving.

Tiant had been vocal about wanting to be elected while alive:

“I already told my family, ‘They put me after I die, don’t go anywhere. Don’t go to the Hall of Fame, don’t go to Cooperstown, don’t go no god— place,’” Tiant said. “‘Cause I think it’s wrong what they do.”

Tiant doesn’t see the benefit of posthumous induction.

“What good is that they put you after you die?” Tiant said, adding, “You can’t do nothing with your family and your friends.”

I think it is helpful that the number of candidates has been reduced from ten to eight. I've said in the past that it requires collusion to vote someone in per this process -- especially when the ballot is balanced with many relatively worthy candidates. It should also help that Garvey and Parker will get no support imo.

Dick Allen recently missed by one vote and Vic Harris by two. That might indicate they are more likely -- but sometimes the support just disappears, e.g., Bill Dahlen a few years ago.

I expect that all on this ballot, except Parker and Garvey, will eventually be inducted, unless they get LaRussa/Reinsdorf/Baines-type support.

Parker will get in, probably within the next 10 years or so

It's pretty sad that the Major League choices only extend back to a lone 1950's debut. There are an abundance of more deserving people to choose from. Tiant?

Wasn't Hodges rejected about a million times before he made it?

I'm a big advocate of Tiant and Dick Allen.

Garvey, despite the fact I think he's a schmuck - probably belongs in as well.

The fact that the HOF encompasses baseball from is beginnings to the year 1980 in one category is a joke. When the man that contributed the most to in establishing the rules for baseball (Doc Adams) is not in the HOF, There is something really wrong. The HOF claims to be the claims to be the bastion of baseball history. Unfortunately, it has become a bastion of the flavor of the month.

Bill Dahlen and Jim McCormick fans in shambles.

I don't know enough about the NL players to opine on them, but the rest are Hall of Very Good.

I really wish they would put Glasscock on a ballot.

Yep. I remember wondering as a teenager why Hodges wasn't in. It finally happened 30 some years later...

And how many times does this make for Boyer?

My guess is that Allen and Boyer get in. Not awful, but could have been so much better with more historic candidates.

As I've posted to match other sports, the BB HOF needs a "contributor" category.

Doc Adams. Lefty O'Doul. Curt Flood. etc

Rich

I sent my Dick Allen GU flannel in to SGC (Dave Grob) to get evaluated/graded last week. I'm counting on him getting in and wanted to get pre-HOF pricing.

Rich is right about Contributors

I’m probably in the minority, but I wish the Hall of Fame would considered the PCL pre-1946 as major league service years. I don’t think it’s necessary to rewrite the record books, but guys like Lefty O’Doul, Buzz Arlett, and Jigger Statz are glaring omissions to me. I’m also of the opinion of that if the Cuban Winter League was important enough for American Baseball executives to try to dictate how the league operated it should be considered a Major League as well.

What about Dwight Evans? He seems comparable to Garvey and Parker

WAR
38.0 Garvey
40.1 Parker
67.2 Evans
Not even close. But Evans gets no love.

Bobby Grich?

Probably won't happen, but I would love to see Allen and Boyer in. But that's personal feelings; I don't know their stats.

Dwight Evans, like Bobby Grich, and Keith Hernandez straddle the 1980 cutoff, which I think puts them at a disadvantage.

Garvey and Parker straddle it too. The difference is that unlike Hernandez, Evans or Grich, neither Parker nor Garvey were very productive after 1980, when they hit 30 years old. Yet Garvey and Parker seem to be favored by the committees.

Pulling for Tommy John to be elected with an assist from Dr Frank Jobe

288 Wins (most wins following surgery)
Only pitcher to compile 80 or more wins with 3 different major league teams

Would also get guys like Joe Torre and Dusty Baker for their total body of work since they were very good to great players and highly successful managers. Yes Torre got in and Baker will as just managers, but they were much more than just HOF Managers.

I'd say Dave Parker did a helluva lot after 1980 ... I mean the dude was getting MVP votes at 38 and 39.

Overall,

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...0Impressed.gif

We scream bloody murder over Harold Baines (38.8 WAR, 2800+ hits) and they give us Steve Garvey (38.0 WAR. 2599 hits), and Dave Parker (40.0 WAR, 2700+ hits). Same guy. I loathe the Red Sox but, as much as it pains me to say so, Evans is a way better player than any of these guys and is far more deserving of the HOF.

Ken Boyer and Graig Nettles are basically the same guy. Boyer had a better average, Nettles had more pop. 3B is an underrepresented position, so I would be OK with Boyer if Nettles goes too.

Tommy John is a participation trophy, as is Tiant; David Cone, Rick Reuschel and Kevin Brown had similar careers to them. John's wins are an accumulation stat; he averaged 13 per year. It's the Don Drysdale-Milt Pappas argument all over again.

As a lifelong Pirates fan, I love(d) Dave Parker -- and Garvey was certainly a great player. I just feel like there are countless others with similar (or better) credentials; namely be beloved Al Oliver.

Every thread needs a card . . .

Attachment 639697

Evans was never THE man on teams that had Yaz and Rice and Fisk (and Lynn was more popular), then Boggs. I think that hurt his public perception.

My favorite player growing up. Never flashy, never egotistical, never sought the spotlight. Just went out there and played. A kind, low-key, private family man.

I'd like to see him inducted but there are definitely so many more who need to go in before him--not to mention SO many less.

I don’t understand how Donaldson and Harris get voted on again after a couple of years have past, without looking at a few other noteworthy Negro League candidates like Lundy, Marcelle, Beckwith, Oms, Poles, Winters, etc.

It’s really infuriating!

The HOF is probably hopelessly screwed up. It is now a collection of players that were at worst pretty good but not including some that are considerably better than many in the hall. And the only player ever admitted with 100% of the vote was a fricken relief pitcher.

Am I the only one who feels like the HOF's own ridiculous ballots are going to kill the committees they established?

If no one from this list gets in again this year, what is the point of continuing this era so that the same group of people can be voted on again and again? There wouldn't seem to be a purpose and then the entire sentiment behind this process is useless.

I would suggest that Tommy John would be lower on everybody’s list without Lewis Yocum, who was instrumental in developing the “Tommy John operation”.
Lew and I were surgical residents together at Northwestern. Considering the longevity and increased use of the procedure today, why not put Dr. Yocum on the Hall of Fame ballot. He also served as the team physician for the Angels for several decades, so he could have an Angel’s hat and a stethoscope on his HOF plaque. I do believe his procedure has made a significant contribution to history of baseball and every hall of fame needs a doctor. Dr. Jobe’s clinic is often associated with the Tommy John procedure, but Jobe gave his associate, Yocum, the bulk of the credit for its development.

Unfortunately Lew passed away in 2013.

I would prefer Tommy John's surgeons get in before he does.

Yes, it's just push, push, push these same tired names, while for reasons nobody seems clear on, a long list of truly deserving candidates are ignored.

+1 could not agree more

If Lou Whitaker doesn't get in on next year's modern ballot then what are they even doing over there?

Kenny Lofton better at least be nominated. Him being a 1st-ballot-and-done rejection is an insult to those that want to ignore all the roiders. The one dude that most likely didn't roid, played against roiders, got cheated out of All-Star appearances by roiders, and still performed like he did for his full career...what the hell?

Yeah, Lofton's treatment was a travesty. His skill set simply was not appreciated. In 1993, he had 148 singles and 81 walks. He also had 70 stolen bases. Basically, he turned a third of his 1st base reaches into doubles. Not too shabby in the field either w/4 GGs.

As my handle suggests, I believe Evans earned enshrinement.

I am prepared.

There needs to be a limit on the amount of times a player can appear on era's ballot.

I wonder if Donaldson's potential election would open the door for a player like Perucho Cepeda. Both had mythical careers largely outside of the Negro Leagues, though Donaldson did spend some years with the Monarchs.

Was lucky enough to pick up this Vic Harris Type I a couple of years ago hoping he got in eventually. 1939 I believe.

Harris back

Fantastic item, Brendan!!

I emptied my savings and went b*lls to the wall loading up on his rookie cards, so I'm ready to rake in the dough!!!!!

Attachment 639896

That's fantastic! I need to go through my boxes and stacks. Maybe I have one too!

It is surprising that the most popular WAR names like Grich and Whitaker never make it onto these ballots

The current eras committee that is voting later this year is for pre-1980s players. Whitaker's production mainly came after 1980.

The bulk of Grich's production was pre-1980, but I think he gets hurt by the fact that his career straddles 1980, with significant production after 1980.

1980 is an arbitrary year, and I think it hurts players like Grich, Dwight Evans, and Keith Hernandez whose careers straddle 1980.

And it apparently hurts EVERY white player who debuted before the mid-1950's.

Who? Wes Ferrell, Stan Hack, and some guys from the 1800s? Bucky Walters? Larry Doyle?

I'm not thinking of anyone else and some of those guys aren't HOF material to some people. I would only consider Ferrell and Hack and a few 1800s guys, myself.

It seems like pre-50s white dudes are very well represented to the point that the pool of players to consider is really shallow.

I believe he’s talking about era factors in WAR.

Everything before mass airplane travel and integration is hard to handicap. There's also a bit too much (imo) downplaying of the talent of players who played during WW2 who have their accomplishments diminished because of the dilution of talent displaced into the military.

There's got to be PCL players that are HOF-worthy who just wanted to stay on the West coast and we've probably lost their greatness to history even with impressive counting stats...made more difficult by some years having nearly 200 games a season.

Whitaker didn't even make the last ballot as I recall.

Nor did Lofton. It was half 'roids guys (Belle, Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro) plus Mattingly, Murphy, Schilling, and McGriff, who got it in.