Theft at Philly Show
 

I saw some chatter on YouTube about a theft of a nice, graded 1933 Goudey Ruth (Red) from a dealer who was set up at this past weekend's show.

Does anyone know if this in fact happened or know any specifics?

I was set up at the show and I did not hear anything about that.

I did hear about it, though I forget who the victim was. Apparently the classic 2 guys distraction ploy.

Hopefully they were caught on video, although I guess so far that hasn't solved the Dallas case as far as we know.

Even more incentive as a dealer to stay home and do your business completely online.

With the huge amounts of cash behind dealer tables at shows, these thieves may eventually start weighing the logic of robbing dealers for their money as opposed to items which have to be fenced. Cards have many different ways to be identified; cash does not.

Just one of countless reasons why I'd never set up at a show again. I've done enough of that to last me several lifetimes. What was fun over 30 years ago is today my idea of a horrible way to spend a weekend. Not interested in the torture of getting cornered into long conversations with people who don't spend a dime while a potential sale walks away, let alone the increasing risk of theft or robbery.

The day will come when dealers at shows won't bring expensive cards to shows anymore.

I heard the same thing.

This is now a trend at major (and some small) shows. Be very vigilant out there. Especially to and from shows.

Or they will hire some professional security help.

There was security walking the show floor but I only saw 1-2 security guards/cops.

Yes, I can confirm the theft.

A dealer was also targeted and followed from the show. They had their car windows smashed and had a backpack stolen from their vehicle. This is discussed on the Blowout Forums and was told to me directly by the dealer.

Talking to two close friends who set up, that is the third time a dealer has been followed off-premises and hit in the last year.

It has happened at the WaWa down the road and at other food establishments.

That last part is scary.

I think some dealers and patrons have taken a cavalier attitude towards this. Not meant to be scary, but whenever you have a large amount of cash and collectibles in one location, they can be targeted very easy. It scares me when I see dealers set up by themselves with no help. I hope that changes in the future.

Be it ever thus. I'm sure there were thefts at the first show ever held and just about every one since. If it gets endemic, security will have to be ramped up accordingly. When I was a kid in the 1950s, we knew that if you left your bike or baseball glove unattended too long at a playground, they might not be there when you got back. Now, if dealers are getting mugged, that's a whole new ugly ballgame, and the promoters and venues will have to beef up security to try to stop it. Dealers will have to travel in pairs or packs, etc. Cameras everywhere, of course.

Two thoughts:

1. To be blunt, most show promoters don't take security into account. Its minimal at best, even at the bigger shows. I don't think that changes.

2. Thefts have happened , but 2024 has (sadly) been a banner year for big times thefts. Two that stand out are the Memory Lane Fiasco and the Dallas Show Theft. We are talking about over a million dollars of items stolen. If that doesn't change how people act at shows, then nothing will.

Wasn't there a similar theft from a car at the National? Thought I read about that.

I spoke to the local police who attended the show. They had other private security too. Stinks in general that we have some bad people.

The theft at food stops nearby is pretty scary. I never even considered that possibility and often stop right outside the show as there are a good amount of choices. So as vigilant as I think I am, apparently I've just gotten lucky (or my stuff just doesn't inspire thieves lol)

Word has gotten out over the past few years that many if not all dealers at these bigger shows are wearing, carrying, and or transporting large some's of cash to and from venues. All are hopefully keeping there business to themselves and alternating routes and normal routines at these shows...mix it up next time. They know the dealer circuit...and your behavioral patterns. They see the same dealers at the same shows month after month quarter after quarter year after year doing same..don't do the same routine mix it up a little.

As I said, if it becomes endemic, promoters will have to beef up security, passing along the costs, of course. But very large thefts have occurred going back many years, the 1991 Anaheim National from McKee/Bosley and Huggins and Scott getting their truck hit in the parking lot at Valley Forge some years ago coming to mind, I'm sure there have been others in addition to innumerable smaller thefts over the years. A wild guess would be that there are 100 individuals and teams at the National every year whose sole purpose is to try to rip dealers off, and any good sized show will have a dozen or so there for that purpose and that purpose only. As for personal security, I remember at the Chicago National in 1998 getting a little tipsy while sitting in on a late-night bar meeting of autograph heavyweights that lead to the formation of PSA, then walking the skyway back to my car on the roof of the parking garage and thinking, "this is not smart, I've got thousands of dollars of cash and collectibles in my bag, and there is not another soul in sight, anything could happen." I was lucky and made it back OK, but just the thought of what might have been made me more cautious after that.

Starting to feel inevitable that something really tragic happens one of these days.

Got to wonder when insurance companies will start to jack up rates, or else charge extra for shows. Seems like it’s only a matter of time.

I attended the show and didn’t see any security, as a matter of fact the checkers at the door weren’t even inspected wrist bands, it’s a shame with this beautiful hobby that people steal right in broad daylight.

Every vendor was very kind and knowledgeable, this breaks my heart and makes me furious.

Gold is being watched too
 

A Gold dealer friend of mine purchased $54,000 in Gold Bullion Coins. He was being watched by thieves during the coin show. They followed him to a Cracker Barrel. While inside they popped the door lock and took his briefcase with all the gold coins. If he hadn't left the coins in his car, they had put a spike under his tire to rob him. His good fortune they got what they wanted--

The theft at the National was from an unlocked car. I believe a briefcase with around $275K was stolen.

One dealer I see at shows for a different hobby has boxes of items. All small and easily stolen if someone really wanted to.
But all the expensive ones are only represented by photocopies, and you have to ask to see them. One item at a time, and they have a couple people in the booth.

The off site stuff is more worrying, as they could just as easily target an attendee who bought a great card.

That is a very nice 4. I feel terrible for that dealer.

That's really nuts, not to at least keep the briefcase in the trunk if the car has one or keep it with you at all times. But the car unlocked with the briefcase inside? There's no words for that. And they must be playing in a different league--how many bring 275K in cash to a show, even the National?

Here's a link to an article about the theft at the National. While I was surprised by the amount of cash, I was told by a dealer at the Philly Show that having that much cash on hand at the National is not uncommon.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...rs-convention/

You better believe it. By both dealers and buyers.

Again, all the more reason to be vigilant.

Is not common sense anymore to not leave $54,000 of gold or $275,000 of cash or cards in your vehicle parked in a public access spot?

The victim of a crime is never at fault, but your odds of being one are greatly higher if common sense is not utilized.

Show thefts in Canada as well
 

My friend is a full time coin dealer and has told me that dealers are being followed into underground garages after shows and held up at gunpoint.

He also mentioned a dealer being followed from a show in Montreal and when he stopped in Kingston for lunch, his car was rifled and there was over half a million dollars in cash and bullion.

He had air tags inside the bag but they were cut out and ditched by the bad guys

One of the funniest things I had occur as a dealer was when a customer walked up and asked me if I wanted to look at his cards. When I reached out for his small stack of cards he pulled back and would not let me take them. Guess he though I was going to rip him off. At that point I told him I wasn't interested.

It seems two things could help alleviate some of the risk:

• Stop dealing in cash -- just use the same methods we do here to make sales/purchases. I guess this would require some to pay taxes who don't wanna. It does seem illegal drugs and card shows are the last paper money businesses.

• Hire private security or have a close associate with a .38 or .40 open-carried on their hip to tell criminals you aren't the target they're looking for.

I was going to write that must make for some interesting scenes at their banks, but then I realized that money never sees the inside of a bank. It must be like the Sopranos, where Tony would hit up a shoebox in the ceiling or a trash can in the back yard when he needed cash.

Are other big collectible shows like this? Coins, stamps, comics, toys, etc., are they mostly cash in/cash out?

I'm sure they're the same -- just remove "card" and insert "collectables." I think there’s a lot less $$$ rolling around at those.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

At this point I think there are more $1 million+ sales in coins than cards

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...xpensive_coins

Funny how many folks anguish over how terrible Atlantic City is. Has there even been a big Atlantic City theft? Can’t recall one.

A dealer was walking around the 2022 show with a busted up face after being mugged outside the show

Official post from the dealer himself.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...800f4dc270.jpg

Theft at Philly show
 

This is sad news, I am sorry for Paul Borges that he was victimized in this
way. A few observations:

1) Seems like surging popularity of the hobby has incurred this
consequence. Where large amounts of money and valuables are, bad
people are also. I recall telling someone that the floor of the National in
Cleveland looked like a casino.

2) It is hard to overemphasize the need for ALL parties to be vigilant at
shows. Organizers- especially at larger venues- get the proper security!
If you have to charge $5 entry instead of free admission to compensate,
do it. Those who transact the most will consider it a drop in a bucket.
Sellers- take a helper whose function is to watch your stuff. Don't default
by saying it's inconvenient, do it. Buyers/guests- be watchful at all times.
Don't throw some hissy fit about "rights violations" if you are required to
show a valid form of ID (not your Avengers membership card). Make it
harder on the bad guys and they may skip the show you are attending.
Doesn't that sound desirable?

3) Someone above mentioned no cash at shows. Wow, I have no words.
Of course cash needs to be at shows- the people holding the cash and
event organizers need to work to make it as safe as possible.

4) For those of you who choose to carry a weapon or who are thinking about
it, know the laws in your state that apply. This is especially true for carry
in vehicles.


Since certain segments of this board tend to turn even the most helpful
or thorough comments into a cause to engage in hyperbole, I am not
suggesting a police state at shows. I am also not suggesting that shows
should look like an episode of Gunsmoke. It's clear there's a burgeoning
problem and that acting, rather than talking about it, is the answer.

Trent King

That truly sucks. I didn't read the whole thread, I hope he at least has insurance.

I started doing shows when I was 12 in the late 80’s, I was as lucky enough to be mentored by some of the dealers that had larger collections, most are deceased or on their last leg, but even back then it was the norm to have a firearm on you(at least for the guys who had something worth stealing). Not sure why it would change now, all of the cards are worth that much more. I’m not a gun advocate at all, I don’t even own one, but it does make sense to carry, I would think. Or maybe people are getting to soft these days.

The laws and anti gun lobby make it very hard
 

Each state has it's own laws and restrictions in terms of who, where, what type and when a gun may be carried and many do not reciprocate permits from other states. It is a frequently changing literal maze of laws and regulations. You also can't shoot someone for stealing (at least in my state), only if there is a threat of imminent physical harm and no means of egress. It is important for anyone considering this to thoroughly learn and understand the laws in their state and any other state they are thinking about carrying their weapon into.

All of the theft threads get into guns before the end. It is not a solution. Even in 2nd Amendment honoring free states it is not legal to shoot somebody for attempting a theft.

These incidents have not been thieves threatening the dealer or anyone else, or doing so in a way that would make a reasonable person fear for the lives of themselves or others. It's been breaking into an unoccupied car (or in one case, just opening the unlocked car) or grabbing while a dealer isn't looking. That's not a legal reason to shoot them, nor is it an ethical one. Carrying a gun, if one so chooses, is a responsibility that requires one to de-escalate, not shoot anyone who breaks a law, especially in a public venue. It is a tool of last resort, not a first resort to show how tough one is or to shoot any lawbreaker. In none of these of incidents would even drawing ones weapon be legal or ethical. In none of them would responsible carry have changed the outcome whatsoever.

Theft at Philly show
 

G1911- The weapon issue has 3 components:

1) An individual carrier may feel safer while carrying.

2) Carrying a weapon to react to a robbery- NOT a theft- is certainly
plausible. Guys who follow a dealer or collector to their homes have
moved past theft, and into territory where a carrier could articulate the
use of a weapon for defense.

3) Again, the mere presence of a weapon might well persuade a bad guy
to try someone else. "An armed society is a polite society".

To be clear enough that even you will have a hard time twisting it, I am not
remotely suggesting that weapon possession is the primary deterrent at
shows. I have never thought to myself that I may need to protect my life
at a sports card show, and hope I never will. The weapon carry conversation
is one aspect of a wide range of precautionary measures which, if
undertaken diligently and consistently, would often prevent more drastic
measures. I'm well aware you think quite highly of your knowledge base, but
I'm very, very confident on this issue. We should all be on the same
team here, I can't imagine anyone thinking that continued high dollar
theft/robbery at shows we attend, is something to ignore or pass to others
as "their problem, not mine".

Trent King

1) I mean sure, carry for other things if you are going to do so responsibly and with control.

2) I have yet to see any evidence of such an incident? It's probably happened at some point in the last 40 years but absolutely none of the threads we have had this year about this spate of thefts ever posed any danger to anyones life.

3) Again, it is not legal to draw your gun and brandish it on someone for committing a theft or you suspect committed a theft. In none of the actual real world incidents we have discussed would producing the weapon, a requirement to persuade a bad guy to stop, be legal or even ethical.

Guns are for extreme cases where there are no better options, not a tool to stop anything negative or to feel good.

When did I say thefts should be ignored? I'd leave to see where I said that.

Theft at Philly show
 

G1911-

1) Some commenters in this thread very clearly mentioned incidents of
showgoers being followed beyond the show site. This goes beyond mere
Theft by deception.

2) On the other hand, not one commenter (that I recall) mentioned or
advocated brandishing a weapon at a suspected thief in a show hall.
Rather obviously, lethal force isn't justified in such a situation- but again,
no one mentioned it as an option, other than you in the negative.

3) This really isn't difficult. People are searching for ways to protect their
property or person at shows or beyond them. Personal carry is just one
way.

4) Again, I am very well-schooled in this area so I'm not going to take the
bait for some contorted debate. The notion that people are willing to
discuss gun carry is a symptom of this growing problem at shows, not the
cause. My comment about "passing the problem" applies to all of us.

Done and dusted, Trent King

Trent, I may not be following you, but how does carrying a weapon act as a deterrent unless would be thieves know the dealer has one? Do you put a sign on your table saying you're armed?

1) Followed, and an unoccupied vehicle broken into at a restaurant parking lot. That's not free rein to use your gun. Again, the gun would not have helped this incident.

2) As I recall, someone did bring that scenario into the 500 post thread on the front page about the in-show theft. It was a little concerning.

3) How is the presence of a concealed firearm going to deter a criminal unless it is first drawn? Read your previous post? Again, it would not have changed any of these cases. I am all in favor of carrying a gun, but it is not for these kinds of thefts.

4) You don't seem to be very well schooled or responsible whatsoever.

Done and dusted 'em

Theft at Philly show
 

G1911-

1) That was NOT the only incident mentioned in this thread. I have NOT said
that people have "free rein" to use a gun as it suits them.

2) My comments are restricted to this thread, not some 500 post thread in
the past. It's likely you made 80 of those 500 posts anyway, so I'm sure
it's a clown show. People on THIS thread are discussing yet another
high dollar card show Theft and ways to deter/address them.

3) If you really need to be told how a presence of a weapon- concealed or
not- may deter a person with criminal intent, you don't belong in this
chat. (Maybe start with a Google search for "open carry", if you can
manage it).

4) You are a dullard who can't follow basic lines of thought. Frankly, I'm
astonished you've stayed on topic this long, albeit incorrectly. The people
on this thread have posted consistent remarks except, naturally, for you.
You are the one who turned reasonable thoughts into Mad Max conditions.

Get help! Trent King

1) Then you shouldn't be objecting and throwing a fit because I said a gun is not an appropriate solution for these kinds of thefts. If you don't believe a gun is the appropriate solution for the situation that is the topic, why are you mad? Try to follow the actual statements instead of just that I live rent free in your head and you're angry.

2) My comments, which you are replying to on schedule for your monthly breakdown, are explicitly about the spate of 2024 card show theft threads and said directly this multiple times. If you don't want to talk about that, then don't reply to talk about it. Kind of obvious, no? EDIT: The dataset shows I made 11 of the 517.

3) A concealed weapon cannot deter anyone, as they don't know you have it. Let's try to think. Are we now changing to one should open carry a gun to card shows so everybody knows not to fuck with you? Should I really be bringing my M4 to card shows to protect my baseball cards?

4) Yes, I am a stupid dullard. But at least I'm not a violent nutter who throws a fit when another poster says you shouldn't just shoot any thief or lynch politicians you don't like. Let's see the details of your certain to be third meltdown when I next post something against unnecessary violence.

Oh I see we're now on to open carry. Even assuming it were legal in the location, that's a great atmosphere for a card show.

I mean, maybe we should consider it. There could be additional benefits. If you bring your rifle with you, other people will probably get out of your way, allowing you to be the only person going through a dealers cards to pick out the best ones early. You can also use the pouches on your kit to store the cards you buy - that magazine pouch can probably hold a few PSA slabs you've bought too. And if the power goes out, you can just flip down your goggles mounted on your ballistic helmet and be able to see to continue examining potential purchases for signs of alteration.

An armed citizenry is not your vision of a utopian society?

I'm as pro-gun rights as it gets - but they are for sporting purposes, sustenance, protection in extreme danger, and a preserver of liberty, not really anything else I can think of. They are not to tote around to tell people not to mess with you, or to brandish upon or shoot a guy who did something bad but is not a life threatening danger to others.

Some basic common sense should tell one that they don't need to display a gun at a card show and it will accomplish nothing but making people panic. Legality of different jurisdictions aside, when I am in a rural small town in a free state, I have often open carried because of the context - nobody cares at all or panics or is worried and no stir is caused because it's outside my shirt instead of under it. At a card show, obviously you are going to cause a scene to nobodies benefit. Common sense, ya know?

Will my KISS Army card work? :)

Guns are not the answer. And before the gun people have kittens over my 'liberal' view, I own multiple and can shoot the wings off a mosquito with my rifle, so I am not a prohibitionist, but I am a realist. Have you met the average card show attendee? I don't think a good portion of them should be allowed to drive, and to think of them armed...yipes!

Theft at Philly show
 

Adam/Exhibitman-

Good God, not you too. PeterSpaeth and G1911 are..."special". They write to
see their words in print, or to start debate even if off the topic of the post.
Sophistry is too much of a preoccupation in certain corners of this board. I
am certain you are better than this.

Let me make this crystal clear: improving awareness and security at card
shows is not- not- simply about carrying a weapon. I've made it beyond
clear that preventative measures on the part of a) promoters b) dealers and
c) show attendees together, can make it much harder on those with bad
intent, to carry out that intent. This can and should involve enhanced
human security at large shows for sure, electronic security if
possible/practical, and steps to ensure that people entering actually have a
legitimate purpose for doing so. It should involve sellers with significant
card/cash value to enlist help at their tables, and for show attendees to do
their part by being vigilant with their own material as well. Gripes by the
"but" crowd- you know, people who say "I'd like to feel more secure at
shows but..."- are plentiful. I don't believe my suggestions would entirely
stop this problem, but they would stand a much better chance of helping
than an endless list of reservations about taking action.

In my first post on this thread, I said hyperbolists would come out of the
woodwork. It's precisely what has happened here, by precisely the folks
who I predicted would do it. The G1911/PeterSpaeth ploy of reduction to
the absurd came right out- shocking.

Last word- I agree the gun aspect has taken too much energy here. Bottom
line is individuals are free to take legal steps to protect themselves. The
wisdom of that choice is beyond this thread- it simply exists as a choice.
It isn't that hard, all parties at shows should take steps to ensure they aren't
a victim.

Trent King

Is there anyone on this board more arrogant, self-righteous, and personally hostile as you? Good god, as you like to say. I haven't said anything in this thread that would remotely warrant yet another personal attack from you. Here's one back -- fuck yourself. I doubt I've told anyone that before, but there's a time and place for everything. Here's some advice for you -- stick to the merits of a discussion, don't get angry, and don't attack people. How hard is that?

How is it absurd of me to observe that bringing a gun out is not a legal or ethical solution to non-violent thefts that never posed a physical danger to anyone? Of course you can't answer anything or back your statements because your solution of open carrying guns at shows to cause panics is retarded and you can't figure out how that makes any sense. This is the second time you have had a meltdown over somebody not endorsing violence. What kind of sick fuck objects to this?

All you do is blatantly lie about transcripts, throw randomly chosen insults, and come off like a potentially violent lunatic. I hope this is merely an online tough guy persona this dipshit has.

Where I come from, a normal reaction to someone disagreeing with you is to defend/explain your position. Nope -- Adam dares to disagree with the all knowing one and the response is "Good god not you too."

I know he believes that you and I, even though we rarely agree, are in some kind of conspiracy against him, but what did Adam ever do?!?!

Dunno. Dared to disagree with him? Failed to understand that his post about guns was not intended as a complete or even primary solution, although no one as far as I can tell interpreted it that way? Et tu, Adam?

Theft at Philly show
 

PeterSpaeth and G1911-

Thanks once again for proving my point. I'll stick to facts here (tough for
both of you, I get it):

1) Peter- You tell me to "go #!*& myself", yet I'm the one with the problem.
Where exactly do you come from, anyway? (Don't answer, it's rhetorical).

2) G1911- You exceed even your depths of stupidity. I don't believe you and
your buddy Peter are conspiring against me- I think you are both
egomaniacs. By the way, I did NOT "endorse bringing a gun out at
shows". For someone who pretends to be the ultimate rationalist, such a
blatant lie seems indefensible at this point. You are quite literally making
things up to defame me. My memory isn't what it used to be, but even I
can scroll up, partner.

3) G1911- I hope like heck you mistyped above and that you own M80
fireworks, not an M4. Yep, I've decided to believe that just for peace
of mind.

4) Adam did nothing wrong- he just bit into your inexhaustible desire to
turn the thread to what YOU want to discuss, rather than the poster.
Are the rest of us in any danger of either of you contributing a useful
idea of how to minimize thefts at shows? Or are you stuck in an endless
Moebius strip of inane chatter? I'm just a guy who dislikes hearing about
these high dollar heists and would like to discuss ways to stop them.

I'm done, please continue this 2-person episode of Short Attention Span
Theater. It won't entertain anyone else, but that hasn't stopped you before.

Trent King

2) - It is in the transcript, you fucking idiot. When you were informed that a thief cannot be deterred by a gun they don't know exists, you advocated open carrying at card shows before being unable to defend this dumbass idea. You are in the transcript having a meltdown because you are the only one who wants to show off guns at card shows like a god damn lunatic lol. The transcript of your repeated batshit crazy affinity to look for violent solutions defames you.

3) - Yes, it's the guy who is *against violence* that you are raging at in your second Net54 meltdown for endorsing non-violence that is the danger.

4) - Do you have any useful ideas or only the fantasies of a 12 year old COD player? So far your idea here is showing off guns, lying and screeching.

Right, you did not endorse bringing out a gun at shows.

3) Again, the mere presence of a weapon might well persuade a bad guy
to try someone else. "An armed society is a polite society".

And when you were asked to explain how a concealed weapon could deter anyone, you made clear you were talking about open carry.

3) If you really need to be told how a presence of a weapon- concealed or
not- may deter a person with criminal intent, you don't belong in this
chat. (Maybe start with a Google search for "open carry", if you can
manage it).

But we're the ones who are confused.

Will never understand Americans and their passion for guns. No need to explain or defend your views because it's all so foreign to a lot of us who live in countries without this culture.

Anyway, here's a great song from my country about guns which has nothing to do with the conversation here, but good music is good music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH8RoAPKoWk

Orville Redenbacher Deluxe
 

.. I MADE POPCORN :

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/204295...000001_NEW.JPG

Every thread about a theft results in ClementeFanOh telling everyone why his opinion is right and everyone else’s is wrong. It’s funny.

Also, lots of people conceal carry at card shows. Like A LOT. Especially in PA.

Theft at Philly show
 

Notfast has joined this miserable little battle. If ever I doubted my stance
in this matter, that doubt is now removed... And for the record, Notsmart,
I haven't claimed that I'm right and everyone else is wrong- that's just more
hyperbole from a tired mind. I have made the point that changes need to
happen at shows to make it harder on thieves, and suggested multiple
changes myself. Predictably, one segment started a 2nd Amendment debate
and ignored the actual thrust of the original post. I hardly think I'm right all
the time; however, I am capable of staying on point. How about you?

Trent King

Trent: no hyperbole or sounding off to hear myself think, just throwing some cold water on the Clint Eastwood control fantasies about guns.

Most people are not capable of handling a gun in a stressful situation, let alone in a crowd. They are not trained and have no experience. The few times I've brandished my gun for self-defense reasons at home I've been scared crapless and not sure if I could have hit the side of a barn cleanly had the sight of a big-ass gun not scared off the miscreants. I was not in a crowd, either. Armed in public in a crowd is not a place for amateurs. If shows allow arms, I am far more afraid of some yahoo with a handgun firing wildly into the crowd than I am of anyone stealing cards at a card show.

The laws on the line between self-defense and criminally culpable homicide are very fine and nuanced, again not a place for amateurs to play sheriff. We covered it in law school and just scraped the surface. Most of the popular 'knowledge' about it is folktales. As someone else noted, you can't just shoot someone who stole something, nor are the 'stand your ground' laws in the states that have them as absolute as the fantasists claim.

Now, taking on the topic of show security: I have promoted shows, set up at them, and attended them for nearly 50 years. I was asked into a group that wanted to run shows in LA and I opted not to join because of my concerns about security. It is just a matter of time before the sneak thievery and car break-ins move to armed robbery of dealers or the Los Angeles specialty, the smash and grab flash mob robbery. I do not wish to be on the liability end of any of that.

Most shows I have set up at since COVID have been in municipal facilities patrolled actively by local PD. I think that is the best way to keep the crime to a minimum, visible and active law enforcement presence. If I wanted to promote a show again, it would only be in a facility where I could get police stationed inside and I would also insist on hiring off-duty police officers for additional security.

I completely agree that show attendees and dealers will have to consider paying for security to be part of their future ticket prices and overhead expenses. There is just too much money sloshing around shows to count on amateurs to deter the crime.

I am in no way shaming any victims in saying this, but we hear so many instances of cards being swiped from cases. Cases are normally lockable; no matter how inconvenient it is to have to lock and unlock them constantly, please do so.

I've been followed home twice in my life, neither as a result of a card show. Just some asshole who probably saw me go to the ATM or something. Both time I noticed the same car making a series of the same turns and on both occasions I rerouted and pulled into a police station. The first time this happened to me the car didn't even realized what they were doing and pulled into the station too, then quickly made a U-Turn out of the lot.

Our theft threads this year could have been solved by:

1) Not shipping millions in cards to a hotel delivery room.

2) Keeping an eye on the case with extremely expensive cards or locking them in a case too large to effectively snatch and grab.

3) Locking their car in the parking lot.

4) Not leaving expensive cards in a unattended vehicle.

Basic common sense would have prevented all 4. A victim of a crime is not at fault, but a lack of common sense will make one a likelier victim in an imperfect world in which people do bad things. Extremist solutions are not relevant to what has actually happened, especially violent nutters looking for an excuse to display how tough they are.

Do you attend shows?

One small edit above.

As a dealer, it's a safe assumption that your cases (or the ones you are renting) have locks. All it costs you is extra time and care to fully utilize them.

"I spent my money on the Clapgo D-29. It's the most impenetrable lock on the market today. It has only one design flaw: the door...must be CLOSED!"

Your version is better!

Hopefully he does not :eek:

Thank you for this post, Adam. In my opinion, reading it was time well spent.