1935 Chicle Nagurski-thoughts on this one?
 

Purchased this off eBay and from what I gather it’s an authentic copy but altered. The seller requested a min grade of 5 and it came back altered. Given that PSA deemed altered what’s the best way to sub this to make sure it’s gets slabbed? I need to tell them slab if altered correct ? I like the eye appeal of this copy so I was ok buying an altered copy.

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Yep - slab if authentic
If that card is authentic you got a pretty good deal ,
The seller should’ve had it Slabbed authentic.
You can only hope the PSA “altered-do not holder” penny sleeve actually belongs with that card . (It Looks good to me)
Have PSA grade as they see fit , maybe you’ll get a number - but it needs to be Slabbed considering the value involved .

1935 Chicle Nagurski-thoughts on this one?
 

Yeah I’ve done a lot of checking on it. Had all the minor print defects on the back and front as well. I’m thinking I will crack it out and submit correctly to get slabbed. I really don’t see where it’s altered either maybe it’s cleaned?


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Oh .. I didn’t realize it was still ASA graded , 🤔

I don't follow? ASA is ancient and long since gone, no? So assumed it was taken out of the ASA holder and submitted to PSA?

No it was subbed in the ASA holder. The seller sent me the sub form


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That "DO NOT HOLDER" seems pretty ominous unless that's standard.

1935 Chicle Nagurski-thoughts on this one?
 

Pretty sure it’s standard, they don’t holder altered cards unless you specify, which is what im asking about. I want them to holder the card .

Also looking at the way the seller subbed it with min grade of 5, it didn’t make grade and wasn’t specified to holder if altered.

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So are you going to specifically add the request to encapsulate even if altered or are you going to risk paying for a $499 "do not holder" cardsaver?

pretty sure I can sub to be graded and if it doesn't get a number grade have the encapsulate it as authentic altered. Assuming id have an outside chance to get a number grade if I did it this way and cracked it out?

You do have to request that, specifically. Otherwise you're going to end up with a cardsaver if it's deemed to be altered.

If you don't absolutely have to have it in a PSA slab, SGC might be a great option. A little less expensive to slab and you can just check a box when you make your submission so they will encapsulate it regardless if it receives a grade or is determined to be altered.

No it doesn't have to be in a PSA slab, but I want it in a slab. I like the SGC option you pointed out. If they deem it altered the SGC slab would just say "Authentic" if the card is deemed authentic but altered correct?

No, it will say Authentic and then the specific reason it was determined to be altered.

Or sometimes will say Authentic Altered if there are maybe multiple issues…not sure exactly when they use that version versus the more specific verbiage.

But I don’t think you can get a straight Authentic if they find an alteration.

1935 Chicle Nagurski-thoughts on this one?
 

I know I have seen altered SGC cards that just say "A" so I was curious. Im not totally sold with PSAs assessment that this one is altered either. I think sometimes they are biased or don't grade accordingly if you ship encapsulated in a different holder, especially one that has been gone for years and not very reputable. Didn't buy it for a number grade however, like I said bought it for the eye appeal willing to accept that its likely altered. Who knows, still might get a number grade maybe with SGC over PSA especially if I crack it out?

Yeah, the “A” is gone now with SGC. Can’t get a slab that just says that anymore.

ASA grading was the brainchild of Alan Hager, who many will remember. He was a retail dealer, wholesaler, author and grading company owner. He was also one of the great con men in the industry at the time. Virtually any high grade card of his slabbed by ASA has a good chance of being altered, but I never heard of any cases of him have ASA "grade" a bogus card. If resubmitted to PSA, you should certainly get an authentic and, now that PSA is providing graders notes you can pinpoint the alteration.
It is a beautiful card much coveted by football collectors.

Thank you thats great information and makes me feel even better about my purchase. I’m going to crack it out and sub accordingly to make sure it gets holdered.


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It sounds like you have litte to lose in getting it reslabbed. Let us know how ti turns out. Most of us in the hobby for very long have had ASA holders. Most are just overgraded.
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I’m excited to get it re-holdered and now looking for an outside chance it even gets a number grade. That would be the ultimate score if it does. Card arrives tomorrow from the seller I’m anxious to check it out in hand and with a black light to see if I can find any areas of alteration but mostly just to hold it and verify it’s authenticity for myself.


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1935 Chicle Nagurski-thoughts on this one?
 

Have the card in hand today. After careful inspection it’s definitely 100% authentic. No light shines through the card and everything checks out against my other chicles. Looking at it under a black light I cannot see any areas of obvious alteration. No die or liquid spots show up and the corners and edges dont show signs either. Normally some signs of trimming show up under black light. The card measures up full size as well. I’m not seeing any signs of alteration or why it was deemed altered. This thing is beautiful in hand! Maybe one of the alteration experts can chime in here but I sure don’t see it?

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Congrats and good luck with the grading. I just don’t think I see enough border around that card for my liking. But I don’t know for sure that the edges have been messed with, by any means.

There are expected variations in the cutting process of old cards but this just seems slightly too small. Take a look at the borders of this one that I will post below (not my card) and yours below it.

And trying to measure the size of a card while in a slab is a little tricky because your measuring device isn’t flush with the card exactly. But it’s tough to say for sure.

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I'm somebody who has spent most of his life in another part of the hobby, but have still been looking at cards for pushing 40 years. Since I certainly don't profess cards to be my area of expertise, feel free to shoot me down! But what I am seeing here, besides what the fellow above me pointed out:

--top right corner is looking pretty funky from the front view.

--The corners and edges have a very strange wear/staining that feels quite manufactured.

Don’t disagree about any of the observations. I just didn’t see any new cardboard or areas of brighter under black lighting. Took some additional pics once I cracked it out.

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Really pretty, nice pics. I'll be excited to see the results.

First Congrats!
Since you stated it measures good, bc i only saw the bottom left maybe wavy & top right edge a bit batwing but that could be just a card titty thing/dinged corner
It looks like a 6-8 to me. I being really optimistic you'll get a grade, but perhaps a high grade atleast 5 or more+++

1935 Chicle Nagurski-thoughts on this one?
 

Subbed to PSA today via $499 walk through 5 day rate. Figure value is 10k at minimum which is inline with the level. Put the appropriate notes on the submission form so it gets holdered no matter what. Anxious to get this one back it’s a special card either way.


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If I were a betting man I'd bet trimmed.

How's the Nagurski coming along? I imagine you were delayed a bit by the holiday weekend but they should be cranking it out promptly this week, right?

I agree with the trimming crowd, looks lightly nipped top to bottom and left to right. That said, if that's all that's wrong it would be a win in my mind.

Very interested in the results.

its moving right along should know final result soon, PSA order tracker shows its in assembly now.

1935 Chicle Nagurski-thoughts on this one?
 

its a win win for sure, like I said bought it because of the strong eye appeal and to get holdered as authentic. If it gets a number grade thats all house money anyway. Im not saying it can't be trimmed but again I didnt see it in hand or under black light, borders are somewhat small yes but so are many of my graded centered chicles, also it measured full size, even slightly bigger. The centered ones do also appear to have smaller boarders. Here's one for reference.

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They're not going to leave you hanging over the weekend, are they?



ETA: Now I'm worried you're only getting a $499 cardsaver.



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1935 Chicle Nagurski-thoughts on this one?
 

I got the result Thursday just want to wait until it ships to my vault before I reveal. I will tell you it’s not a $499.99 card saver.


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i'm dying to know!!! I'm thinking its a high number grade!

After I had the card in hand I knew the chances to get a number grade were even better than I thought originally. I’m extremely excited my obversations of the card warranted the grade!

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Dang right! Great to see a gem unveiled in today's market!

Quick question, did this go thru eBay guarantee program? I had not seen that mentioned.

Again congrats, great card!!

Congrats man! Well played.

HOLY $%@!
What is this worth now??? 200,000 USD ???
CONGRATS !!!!!!!!!!

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This is how investinrookies is gonna' spend his whole summer

From what I'm seeing from recent sales, $200k seems a little generous. Maybe $30-50k, depending on how nuts the bidders are willing to get during the auction.

It's completely shitty PSA has no accountability for stuff like this. The previous owner tries to get it slabbed, get's shit on by PSA...then the card gets cracked and resubmitted and meets the requirements that were set by the previous owner in his submission. Really crappy for that guy, glad it worked out for you.




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This happens all the time and everybody knows that. Ashley will see red and Tom will see blue ...

The guy before him should've just re-subbed it ...

1935 Chicle Nagurski-thoughts on this one?
 

For sure it happens all the time, but how many $500 submissions (or $600, maybe $700 with shipping and insurance) does that guy feel is prudent or is able to make. We don’t know his situation, after one rejection it’s somewhat reasonable to think you’re throwing good money after bad.

Well to be fair to PSA after I gathered more information from the seller they didn’t sub it correctly like I said. You don’t sub a card for grading that’s already holdered, that’s a cross over not grading. They also didn’t notate to holder it or specify a min grade. The seller sent me the sub form so I know this is accurate. Also, PSA wrote in the min grade so appears they had to reach out to the seller on exactly what they wanted done. Again, after I did my research on this it’s yet another reason I decided to take my chances with it knowing it would at least get an altered holder at a minimum. Seller should have just resubbed it as raw like I did.


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Yeah, I just thought they gave him a straight out “altered” result due to that cardsaver you showed. So however incorrectly he submitted it, if they didn’t just return it and kept his money, they sorted it out, evaluated the card and made a determination.

So I’m just saying if all the above is indeed the case…him going from “altered” to you as a “5.5” is sooooo much of a change of opinion to make without accountability.

Grading is a matter of opinion not accountability. It’s important to also sub correctly and remove any possible bias when submitting with regards to submitting in holders. I submitted a raw card and got the best professional opinion at the time of grading from the given grader. I don’t see anything wrong with any of this on either side.


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It could be a matter of both, that’s all I’m really saying.

Bronco
 

Congratulations. You took the risk and it payed off.
Beautiful Card.

Best Regards
John P

Congratulations.

I am surprised ASA actually had a legit card in their holder.

Have to add my congratulations as well. Happy I was wrong, lol.

congrats! I'm not surprised at all. A shame there's one less HAGER slab out there! Great Score!!!!

From chicken shit to chicken salad. Beautiful.

Such a clear case of bias on the original submission. You gotta know that PSA won’t take a shot at being burned on an ASA card.

Agreed. They probably never even looked past the holder.

A PSA 1 just went for $16,800 last night. There have only been a handful of sales this year all low grades. A SGC 3 went for nearly 30k in heritage as well a couple months ago.


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There's an old flip PSA 4 in H&S right now. Yes, I suppose that equates to a modern PSA -6...

I’ve actually seen the opposite, newer flips equate to 2-3 grades lower on comparable cards from older flips


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You missed my sarcastic minus symbol.

The "Mona Lisa" cards are:

Baseball: T206 Wagner
Basketball: Bowman Mikan
Football: National Chicle Nagurski
Hockey: C55 Vezina

I'm happy to say that I currently own two of these cards. :cool:

Fair enough. Maybe it will go nuts if it goes to auction. But $200k nuts seems unlikely.

Won’t be mine going to auction anytime soon. With only two 5.5s going to rely on other comps for value. A PSA 6 sold last year for nearly 100k but I’d argue eye appeal was not as good as mine and they’ve been steadily rising since.


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Biggest reason I was looking for a nagurski is its rarity and status in the hobby also the set and image is very cool. I’ve also heard it called the T206 Wagner of football, if that’s the case it’s way undervalued.


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Even better. So aside from insurance purposes (and maybe proving to the wife that this is a great investment of all your free cash flow), the current value isn’t particularly important.

Yeah it’s appropriately insured in my vault off site and she’s on board with the long term outlook on this card knowing it’s potential down the road.


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Totally agree. This could be a $5-10 million card someday.

It's definitely trimmed on the top edge. PSA just missed it the second time around. Not that it matters now though lol. Just don't crack it out!

This may be the funniest thing ever said on this board.

I'm glad I'm not alone in this thought, but we also are basing our opinions solely with the "aid" of scans. Maybe having the card in hand would change viewpoints. While we can hope that extra attention would be given to a high profile card, I'd be a complete fool to never put anything past anybody.

The borders of the PSA card look much whiter, is that just scan settings?

If Travis is right, that would restore my faith in ASA.

The card does appear small but I have seen lower graded examples with even smaller top and bottom borders. Might be trimmed but the two right corners appear to have been filed. The card does appear much more white after being broken out and then even more so once the card graded by PSA but the image is much smaller so hard to tell. All of this is based on scans which can be deceptive even if done on the same scanner.

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Those are two reasons. Both are A-OK with me, as I am the same way with nearly all of my cards.

Can assume anything going off the scan, again in hand all edges look the same under magnification and black light, also if that were the case it doesn't appear short in the holder? Not to mention the first pics are terrible and don't represent the card well.

Well I can tell you all I did was crack it out and sent the card in within 2 hrs of receiving it. The boarders were much whiter in hand which I attributed to the different pics/scans. Original was not a scan and PSA notoriously uses bright scan settings.