Memory Lane sold cards they didn't have per SCD
 

Well color me shocked. Shocked I tell you...

Anyone hear anything about this or know more details? SCD claims that Memory Lane ran auctions for $2 million worth of cards that were stolen from the hotel at Strongsville and they just allowed the auctions to run anyhow, in hopes that they might be able to track them down lol.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...om-ohio-hotel/

Wow, wonder if the D304 Matty was one of the cards.

Gypsies?

This has to be a first, no? How many of those cards were Ryan's and did they ever inform him? Seems a little irresponsible (huge understatement) to have shipped 2 million dollars worth of cards to a Best Western for the hotel to receive on behalf of the card dealer. I mean what could possibly go wrong?

They had 3 weeks to find the cards but they let them run anyway? Hmmm...

This one trumps both the 51 Bowman Mantle being stolen in the line for ice cream and the dude who held the brown paper bag full of $1 bills while the customer took a pile of cards to show his son.

When I arrived at the hotel in Strongsville Thursday, Joe was in the lobby having a prolonged conversation with the authorities. I guess I now know why.

I think things are going to change after this debacle. I never felt comfortable about AH’s displaying consigned items at card shows thousands of miles away from their headquarters. Especially with today’s prices. It’s too risky. Is insurance going to cover all of this?

Wow, I really dislike people who steal, especially when it's an inside job which I would bet dollars to donuts this is.

In my best Desi Arnaz voice, "Best Western, you have some splainin' to do".

This doesn’t make sense, why would ML keep an auction running if the items were stolen? Something doesn’t add up.

Good question. I guess it depends on the requirements of the policy. It is possible they would decline coverage since it was not sent to someone who was a party to the transaction. They essentially sent it to a stranger and told them to hang on to it for them for a few days. :eek:

In the hopes that the cards would be found, which is unlikely.
What it does do is establish the value of the insurance payout for the consignors.

Maybe kept the auction going so they would have values for insurance claim?

I really hope that’s not the case.

I'm not sure how else would you establish insurance value?

Leaving the auction run actually makes more sense than trusting a shipping company with a small box worth millions of dollars.

And leaving the auction run only makes a tiny bit of sense to me.

Lol, no. Of course not. Not if the details in that article are correct anyhow.

Now I'm worried that they won't be able to pay me for my lawsuit... Ugg

Not sure either, but if I’m a bidder I am bidding with the assumption the card is not stolen. I think that’s a fair thing to assume!

Correct

So if I went after a card they can't deliver over another card I also wanted, I guess I'm just SOL...Or if I sold stock, paid a big capital gains tax to finance a card they can't deliver....now what????

You’d have to keep the loss of the cards close to the vest then too. If people knew they didn’t have to pay, they might bid things up for unscrupulous reasons.

I don’t even want to know how thieves are able to monetize heists like this. For those of us who appreciate the artwork and rarity in cardboard, this is no different than paintings being pilfered from galleries, in my view. Pisses me off.

From the article:

"The cards remained in the auction in hopes that police could recover them prior to last weekend’s close but as of Monday night, they were still missing and company officials spent Monday informing buyers of what happened. All were fully insured so consignors will receive their proceeds from Memory Lane."

Are you saying consignors will not be compensated fully for the hammer price of the missing cards?

Tonight will be the second night in three that I won’t get much sleep. I’m pretty devastated.

Did you get a Dear John email?

Imagine assuming that the staff of a Best Western in small town U.S.A. can be trusted with a $2 million package, just for a few days…

By selling them to the huge number of collector's that won't care they are stolen. Our most frequent topic is explaining why lying and fraud are okay, they won't have a hard time moving stolen goods in this hobby.

Phone call and email. I just hope and pray the cards are recovered and the scumbag thief serves hard time.

Integrity is definitely in short supply nowadays.

Sorry to hear.

Want to disclose what card or cards?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4fe03cbd49.jpg

Truly sorry to hear that, bidders got the short shrift but I don't see how it could have played out differently.
I'd assume if the cards are recovered you would be given first option, which isn't much of a consolation but it's something.

And I agree, some flunky Best Western thief should definitely spend some time in the cooler.

Holy Shit Daryl, that's a gut punch.

Yes, that’s correct.

If ML uses Collectibles Insurance Service, if I read it correctly, it appears they will have no coverage. The attached is from a standard dealer policy that a friend just sent me.

It will be interesting to hear from Ryan on this. I for one didn't receive a call/email, but I just had some mid grade T206 and a T200. Old Mill E Collins PSA 6 was most valuable. Lots of winners of of Cracker Jacks posting in the ML auction thread here.

The article mentioned T206, Cracker Jacks, Caramel cards and Brunners as missing.

And Exhibits.

My CJ wins would not have made the Strongsville cut, I'm curios about the Matty though, that's not a card that would miss detection in the hobby. Much like trying to sell the Mona Lisa at a flea market, it's too hot. Unless a Russian Oligarch wants to bury it in his collection.

Insurance
 

Holy shit that sucks...I understand the insurance angle but that money could have gone to other cards in the auction...Jerry

Of course ML had insurance on the cards in case of theft at or loss on the way to a show.

There were 50 cards or so stolen, cards that are easily identifiable if they're either offered for sale at auction or sent into PSA or SGC, who I presume have already been provided scans of the cards and are on the lookout for these cards if sent in raw for grading. Anyone who buys the cards as slabbed would be buying stolen property; not a great investment I promise.

And I have no doubt Ryan will be made whole as if his cards sold for the prices realized at auction; that's what insurance is for.

My guess is some hotel employee stole them, having no idea either the value or rarity of the cards. He's probably panicked at this point, not appreciating what he stole at the time. I just hope he didn't dump them somewhere in an effort to get rid of the evidence. While it's incredibly frustrating for any of the winners of these really rare, special cards, the buyers aren't out any money, just a few hours of sleep. Travis, that can be count two of your humdinger of a lawsuit. :)

That’s some bad news. I’m crossing my fingers as I won two of the tougher T206’s in the auction. I just watched a couple of the YouTube videos from Strongsville to see if if they happened to be in the videos, but I didn’t see any T206 on their tables during a couple of the YouTube videos.

No VM or emails, so I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

Bob

They shipped them to the hotel? It's like asking for them to be stolen... Is that seriously something dealers at shows do? If so I would STOP doing that asap.

Drive them in a car, or armored truck if that's your thing. But don't ship them to a hotel your staying at that is going to be a mecca for expensive cards. Come on now.

Auction houses
 

Now other auction houses can say "at least our stuff doesn't get stolen in crappy hotel rooms and we pay our consignors within 30 days"...Jerry

My lawsuit has nothing to do with this. It's a small claims court filing.

Also, I am less confidence than you that the insurance company would pay out on this claim. Hopefully the cards are recovered.

You’re actually going to take the time to sue ML in small claims court? And then take a judgment from one state and try to enforce it in another state?

I’m reminded of the great Morris Albert hit of 1977 “Feelings”.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CyBcHU...FsYmVydA%3D%3D

Just curious - let's say the cards were found and a perp was arrested - would they have to be held as evidence until a trial? Or could ML sell them and ship them out to the winning bidders and use pictures/scans as evidence?

What if the perp was going to plead innocent. Doesn't that make it even more likely that law enforcement would hold on to the cards as evidence?

My guess is ML would care more about getting the cards to the auction winners than pressing charges. I have no doubt that’s all that matters to the auction house.

Yep. They pissed me off. Plus it'll be a fun learning experience.

Same state.

Interesting case for that amount of cards to be stolen and still auctioned!! Hate it for all the winning bidders especially the 14 CJ winners!

FYI Police detectives will only hold onto the cards as long as necessary to conduct their investigation. They would not be holding $2M worth or cards in property for the duration of a trial. All US courts are backlogged with cases since COVID so a case going to trial will likely take months to years.

Think about it if your 2020 Tesla was stolen and the police recovered it they certainly would not hold onto it for a trial to take place a year later. That would cause too many inconveniences especially if that was your only mode of transportation. Once the investigation is complete the property will be returned to the owner.

LOL. Yeah, the fact that a large heavily insured box showed up at a Best Western a few days before the card show next door . . . who could possibly have connected the dots.

Here's an insane thought . . . .hire a bonded security guy and put him on an airplane and throw in two nights at the Best Western . . . one rule . . . must take cards on the plane and never leave them from your sight. That means they don't go into checked baggage and don't even go in the overhead compartment. Just keep them in your eyesight until the moment you hand us the bag.

Nah, fk it, just mail them to the Best Western and hope for the, uh, best.

Definitely a great point...not only did this hurt the winning bidders of the missing cards, some of whom perhaps would have shifted their bidding money to other non-stolen lots, but the consigners of some non-stolen cards in the auction perhaps could have had the action on their lots potentially minimized because of the decision to keep the stolen auction lots open.

Condolences to all involved, and just a sucky situation all around that, with some common sense precautions, probably could have been avoided in the first place.


brianp(arker)-beme

I didn't see this yesterday, but this is one heck up of a wake up this morning.

99.9% sure this isn't related, but given the name of the town in the title:

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/...-district-says

I received a call after Sunday night (a day after auction ended) telling me that a box of cards had been stolen. First, I was assured that I will be paid out 100%, on the final value of the auction, which I have no doubt will happen, whether insurance covers it or not (and I am sure they will). Second, I was told the auction had to continue in order to establish the fair market value of the cards, otherwise, how does anyone establish the value/hammer price. Third, I was told anyone who won a stolen card will be given the option, but not obligation, to buy the card at the hammer price + BP if they are found. Plus, they are optimistic the cards will be found.

A few other things:

1. The cards were stolen, not lost or misplaced. The cards got to their intended destination, were signed for and stored, and then taken. As far as I can tell, ML has done nothing wrong or irresponsible.

2. It sucks for the buyers, but they are out no money, only expectations. They may have missed out on another card, but they are in no worse position than before the auction started. The bigger issue would have been how much do you pay the consignors? Do you guess, do you just settle, do you litigate? Running the auction, which I am sure was done at the advice of both counsel and insurance, to establish value is certainly the best path with the least damage given the crappy situation that’s nobody’s fault. There is no winning answer under these circumstances. It sucks, millions $$ of cards got stolen and ML is on the hook. No bueno all around

3. ML owes me a lot of money. I have complete confidence I will get every dime (and have proactively been assured numerous times of that and I will get paid before insurance ever kicks in). I do not blame ML for this and I think they are doing all the right things under real crappy circumstances. I think it sucks balls for the collecting community bc the cards may be gone from the hobby forever. Hopefully the turn up.

From the way they shipped such expensive cards to running a phantom auction on items that were stolen seems pretty crazy. If I were an insurance company I’m not sure I’d take the results of a dummy auction as setting a value. Seems too easy to manipulate.

This is devastating, but only a matter of time until investigators work their way to the culprit and the cards are recovered.

I wonder if parties involved are thinking….

The Con goes on and on…..

I’m sorry for Ryan and for the collectors who thought they won these cards, but I am flabbergasted that ML decided to still run the auction with these cards in it. It’s not a good look for the hobby at all. I expect to see changes in the future.

Bad karma from the Goudey Gehrig situation?

Truly sad this happened. The moment it was known the cards were stolen, the auctions should have ended, so bidders could have focused their money on other cards they may have been interested in. If and when the cards were recovered, the cards could have been listed in a future auction.

And the end of the day, this sucks for everyone involved.

stolen
 

Best Western, they are OK,.. breakfast included, free Wi FI,

Probably should eat that buyers premium.

Perhaps Scott Russell of The Collector Connection can post about the legalities of an auction house selling items it knows it doesn't have in its possession. Scott has said he graduated from auction school, and I bet that topic was covered.

What does that mean? There is no con. ML had to do what they had to do and no doubt they took advice from counsel as well as others. There is a possiblity of the cards being recovered. It sucks for everyone involved. Hopefully, the cards will eventually be returned. Most of our pre war cards are like fingerprints, so there is a possibilty......
.

+1

As a consignor, are you given the option of having your card(s) not included in a card show display case? Wonder where this is in the fine print of the consignor agreement. I would expect my consignment to be in a vault.

+2 (coming from the consignor with the most to lose and a bidder who won a very rare and expensive card that will almost certainly not come up again for sale for many years).

The people most impacted understand and are satisfied with how ML is handing it. The situation sucks and is unfortunate, but there is no perfect answer. That said, I am sure that ML proceeded on the advice of counsel, the insurance company, the cops, etc.

Hypothetical: A collector's prize card is a rare Old Judge, of a player who was his great-grandfather, that's almost never seen. An upcoming auction has an example of the same card, but in much better condition. The collector, to raise needed funds, sells his example, figuring that'll cover part of his anticipated upgrade.

The auction ends, the collector is thrilled because he's won and upgraded his prized card, but then the AH sends him and email, and SURPRISE!

"We didn't actually have the card we just auctioned and pretended to sell to you. We did it because we, for our own purposes, just wanted to see how high you would bid..."

But, hey, the collector is no worse off than before the auction, right? Except he no longer has his best, prized card.

When a catastrophe happens there are unintended victims. As a business, or a person with a conscience, you do the best thing at the time. The auction was handled correctly given all of the circumstances.

Completely SOL. I'm sure any of the good counselors could beg the question...."what are your damages"

This is horrible to hear. When I went through the same thing years ago, the defense switched from "where is your reciept for buying them" to a cock and bull story how I sold them cheaply, to 2 6'4" 250lb gentlemen, who knew nothing about cards, and subsequently wanted more money. FwIW they supposedly lost the entire sum on the Tyson/douglas fight that weekend.

I think it’s more than fair to question whether sending the package the way they did and continuing an auction of items they no longer had without saying a word are the best things.

Or just pick them up from the Fedex location near the airport on your way to the BW?

Not understanding the logic to send this shipment to the BW opposed to picking up at the Fedex location. At least if someone at Fedex pilfers the cards, the collectibles insurance would cover.

But this is not what happened. Also, there is a real expectation that the cards will be found and they will have the cards. Finally, regarding your hypo, what if the guy sold the card in anticipation of winning the other but was outbid and did not win it. Nobody made the guy sell his existing card BEFORE he wins the other card. That's on him.

I fully agree with Leon: "there are unintended victims. As a business, or a person with a conscious, you do the best thing at the time. The auction was handled correctly given all of the circumstances."

The situation blows. Plain and simple. There are no winners. You do the best you can under the circumstances, and, as any smart business would do, you follow the advice of counsel, the insurance company, and the police investing the case, all of whom (from what I have been told) said to run the auction.

Its a good question as to why the cards were not held at Fedex, but instead delivered to the hotel. My gut is that its because valuable cards have been sent to their end destinations a zillion times without incident, so there was no reason (until now), to change the practice. I bet going forward, AHs will send cards (if at all) to be held by FedEx/UPS for employee pickup. But there is no reason to change the way something has always been done until a reason presents to change.

I can't see how auctioning off cards you don't have can be either legal or ethical.

I would love for ML to comment on this, especially the last sentence. Maybe a statement will be forthcoming.

From the SCD article, ML is not the only one to do something like this:

"If it’s impractical to drive to a remote location for a show or other event, dealers often ship items ahead of time, tracking shipments and making arrangements to take delivery. One former auction house owner told us Monday that while the process can be nerve wracking, problems are rare."

Also, I would think that ML would have insurance to cover themselves for this type of occurrence. I doubt they would risk sending several million dollars worth of cards in a way that wasn't covered.

I agree with you Ryan. I won the Bat Off Cobb PSA 7.5. I don’t blame Memory Lane. I blame the thieves. Memory Lane is reputable and will do the right thing.

I am about as certain as I can be that ML would've consulted with counsel before making the decision they did. I don't remember ever discussing auctioning of things that have been stolen prior to completion of the auction. It's a pretty unique scenario.

A related concept that is covered and is legal is that there are a surprising number of auction companies (not necessarily sports) that auction items they don't have possession of. Whether they're allowing a consignor hold the item until they approve of the sale and in some cases even allowing them to ship it on to the final destination on behalf of the auction company. We are advised against the practice in school for a number of pretty obvious reasons. I've had consignors try and make these arrangements with me, we turn down the consignments. Amazingly though, it is not actually illegal (really isn't that in essence what an ebay auction is?)

I think it is admirable that a consignor, Ryan, is handling spokesperson duties here for Memory Lane. It has been established that Joe T. Is the best catalog writer in the business. Maybe he or another ML representative could come on the board and make a post or two to clarify the situation about what exactly happened and what expectations are moving forward.

This was my second thought after realizing that running the auction in silence was the best move to establish value for items that perhaps have aged comps or none at all.

It certainly seems like there has to already exist bonded receipt/delivery companies in all 50 states for high value shipments, collectables, art, etc. Just shipping to a contractor in Ohio and giving them a short drive vs. direct delivering 2 million in items to a business front that has likely 70% of in-house employees on minimum wage or close to it seems dangerously risky.

If this is not the case, I may have just come up with a business idea.