O/T The concept of a non-sports "rookie card"
 

Does this make sense only in the sports context, or is it reasonable to call a musician/actor/other historical figure's first card a "rookie card" as well?

For instance, this 1971 David Bowie, or 1972 Michael Jackson.

There are countless examples, many of which are truly hard to find.

Peter, you've been doing it for years. Please by all means-keep it going, you're my education I believe their isn't(shouldn't be) another term for it when it comes to any card related hobby��

I guess one difference is that the "rookie" concept in sports is tied to a season, whereas in non-sports it's just a question of when someone got around to making a card that can be dated, but I don't find the term objectionable.

A few more. 1968 Stevie Wonder. 1961 Aretha Franklin. 1965 Bob Dylan.

1963 Patsy Cline. 1959 Johnny Cash. 1971 (rare) Willie Nelson.

1959 Chuck Berry. 1975 (rare) Bruce Springsteen. 1967 Dolly Parton.

I had to go looking for a Johnny Cash of my own on the bay and noticed two of the listings mentioning RC in the title...

Just be careful because, as in some sports like soccer, the designations are frequently wrong and to make it worse there are certain cards PSA badly misdates.

Hell, even a topps Sideshow Bob got in on the act

1935 Duke Ellington. 1975 (only one I have ever seen) Joni Mitchell. 1967 Waylon Jennings.

Outside of sports I always preferred the term “first card” which seemed to be the description used in collecting I remember before Beckett added XRC to the lexicon. But honestly it doesn’t bother me in the least to see rookie card, I really like your listings with these because I always learn about something I usually know nothing about.

Switching gears. 1937 Humphrey Bogart. 1939 Ronald Reagan. 1950 Marlon Brando.

1936 Ingrid Bergman. 1939 Judy Garland. 1945 Frank Sinatra.

1954 Peter Sellers. 1964 Sean Connery. 1976 Sylvester Stallone.

I like the concept. I am waiting to be discovered and haven't appeared in my first movie yet. I guess all my cards would be considered pre-rookie cards.

1936 Rita Hayworth. 1950 Marilyn Monroe. 1964 Catherine Deneuve.

The problem is that defining a rookie card outside sport involves a variety of cards and card adjacent items from all over the place. Often the earliest card will be a postcard or a promo card. For example, the earliest Marx Brothers card I know of is the vaudeville Exhibit card from 1926.

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...arx%20Bros.jpg

For recording artists the earliest card is usually a promo item from the label.

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...20Cab%20PC.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...way_%20Cab.jpg

Or a studio card for an actor:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...o%20Bacall.jpg

That’s all logistics. Where I think it goes too far is RC on a fictional character. Umm, no. They don’t exist.

Thanks for creating this post. I’m heavy into non-sports. I firmly believe in “first card”. The notion of a Ulysses Grant rookie bugs the shit out of me. Some eBay seller was offering a 1932 Caramel Washington “rookie”. George actually has cards about 50 years prior. IMO, it has trickled down from sports cards as non-sport has gained traction in the last several years. 1964 MLK first card.

1901 Winston Churchill. 1935 Queen Elizabeth. 1961 JFK.

1952 Chagall, Matisse, Picasso.

Would any royalty have two?
One as prince/princess and a second as King/queen?

Or would that be treated more like a draft pick card or minor league card?

Oh the possibilities.

If fictional characters can have RCs, how about inanimate objects?

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ize/img389.jpg

LOL. Here is her first as Queen in any event. 1952.

1964 Beatles. 1968 Doors. 1970 Led Zeppelin.

1980. Pretty sure this is his first.

Now.... can a "rookie card" be local?
Like say Ichiro. He would have a Japanese rookie card and a US rookie card.

The Queen was queen for a variety of semi independent countries.
So a Wales rookie, a Scotland rookie....depending on where the card was issued. There are probably ones where there is no locally issued card.

And yes, I'm a _ trouble maker at times.

I never really looked to see what cards were produced during Jim Morrison's lifetime. I know Jimi Hendrix has several options from before his death. What about Janis Joplin? I could only find a 1975 Panini as her earliest card when looking her up a while back, but I would have thought she would have something earlier.

Peter, do you know if the 1975 Panini is Joplin's first card, five years after she died?

Janis has a 1974 card but as far as I know nothing during her liefetime.

Thanks for the reply, Peter. I thought maybe I was missing something issued during her lifetime, but I had never seen anything. I am surprised it took four years after her death before anything was issued.

There are lots of holes on the nonsports side. But if you want a Janis lifetime, I think you need to go Type 1 photo.

Speaking of Jimi, here is a first year card, from 1968.

Three Dylans 1964-65.

1957 Buddy Holly and the Crickets. 1959 Kingston Trio. 1969 Simon and Garfunkel.

Man on the Moon
 

This is the earliest card I could find of Neil Armstrong

1963 Gelles-Widmer "Astronauts - Space Cards"

He was a late civilian addition to the Gemini Program and not as heralded at the time as the military test pilots in the program, so he made a group shot in this set, but doesn't look like he made any of the other various NASA based sets at the time, including the 1963 Topps "Astronauts" set.

Also from that set.

This looks like an amazing set! Looks like a new search to add to my eBay presets.

That's a nice one to, of the Mercury program guys. I think most of them also had their own individual cards within that set, along with also being included in the Topps/Popsicle set of the same year.

Yes, I sold the individual cards here a year ago perhaps.

Here are the Topps cards.

It's a great set. I love it. I pick one up whenever I see it for a reasonable price.

They're about the size of Tallboys I think. Very nice design.

Those are awesome!

I've had some over the years, but never in nice of condition as those.

Here is the Topps group card.

I personally think the term "rookie" should apply to sports cards only, but it's no big deal either way. "First card" or FC may be more appropriate for non-sports cards.

1957 Little Richard. 1959 Sam Cooke. 1966 Marvin Gaye.

Bogart is in an exhibit set featuring stills from movies in 1935 and 1936, and the cards are probably from 1936.

Do you have images? I was not aware of anything earlier than the 1937 card I posted above.

See here:
http://www.moviecard.com/zamerican/e...bit-gmenP.html

Note that Bette Davis, Lionel Barrymore, Chester Morris, Cesar Romero, Lloyd Nolan, and James Cagney are also all in this set - perhaps their first cards?

Bette goes back at least to 1933.

Found a major grail. Cost me next to nothing. 1952 promo card of Hank Williams, his only "card" issued during his lifetime to the best of my knowledge.

Elijah Wood's first card (one of the two kids playing the video game).
https://www.tcdb.com/Images/Cards/No...-6223354Fr.jpg

Looks like a card to me. Congrats.

Thanks Adam. The only other vintage Hank card I know of is this (criminally undergraded, it's pristine) 1965 Heather Country Music, but it's long long after his death.

1930s postcard of a very young John Wayne

This was moved from another section so a few more eyes can see it. Neat cards shown that a lot of us can relate to whether we collect non-sports or not.
.

I've been told that my 1899 Stollwerck Leonardo Da Vinci is his "Rookie Card" lol. Feels like a good excuse to post a picture of it.

I think the term “rookie” has honestly just supplanted the word “earliest” for all facets of card collecting. I’m fine with it. And I’ve started to dabble in the non-sports “rookie” collecting thing as well, but am way behind Peter with respect to this niche and am not as stringent with the “rules”.

As for Michel Jackson, wouldn’t his 1969 Victoria Vedetten Parade pre-date the 1972 issue from the first post??

https://photos.imageevent.com/derekg...20Victoria.jpg

That Jackson is from 1973. Victoria Vedetten Parade were issued in four series from 1965 to 1973 and PSA just ignores that and calls them all 1969 which has led to people mislabeling them. This is from the last series. I have this on good authority from the world's leading music card collector and from people in Europe.

I have started a collection of non-sport prookies. I have a feeling it will be quite small.

I think the term “rookie”’ is absurd in this context.

Hypothetically a guy performs on stage or screen for a dozen years and then ends for the first time on a card or similar item …. That ain’t a rookie anything. It’s a first something.

If Joe Biden or Willie Nelson ended up on a card this year for the first time, would someone with a straight face claim that as a “rookie” something?

Exactly. This term is infuriating when applied to non-athletes who don't have rookie seasons. It's used in an attempt to drive up hype and inflate prices by introducing such cards to sports-based collectors as "RCs".

Of course, this will lead to somebody asking how this then applies to executives and other non-playing personnel who may have cards issued as part of sports sets. To me, that's a bit of a grey area, but hey, they are involved in the sport in some way.

I'm thinking that perhaps The Simpsons came up with this idea over 30 years ago. "A Methuselah rookie card!"

For musicians, should their RC have to be released around the same time as their debut album or first hit? Should I have to pay a premium for a A Taste of Honey card that was issued pre-Boogie Oogie Oogie?

Now, steer me to the Captain and Tenille RCs and Dion DiMucci superrefractors!

Love the facsimile autograph in modern script.

Don't people call 50-51 Toleteros Josh Gibson (issued after he died) his rookie card? There are certainly a number of first football cards issued years after the player's rookie season that are commonly called RCs.

This has never made any sense to me. Post-war vintage football is replete with "rookies" of long-time veterans. HOFer Frank Gatski's "rookie card" is a 1955 Bowman, his last year as a professional, as just one example (the 1946 Sears isn't a rookie because reasons). 1955 Topps All-American, 1952 Bowman, and 1948 Leaf cards that feature college players can be rookies, even posthumously, but the 1951 Topps Magic's are not. The inconsistent rules, the small set sizes, football rookies are more of a mess than baseball.

It seems to me some players just don't have a rookie card.

"First card" makes more sense to me to use for these things. The silliest is the fictional character rookies. I collect (i.e. hoard) the 1977 Topps Star Wars, or at least I used to do when I could buy bulk for a dime a pop. Ever since the 2020 increases, the younger crowd has been hyping "Luke Skywalker RC" and "Boba Fett RC" in the 1980 set in the Discord groups. Seems kind of silly to me. I suppose every single card in the 1977 set is a "first card/rookie" of whatever is featured.

Let's not forget about the ridiculous concept of some Laughlin cards being considered RCs. Forget about later career or post-career! Some of these were issued post-mortem! Your "rookie" had already been six feet under for 30-40 years. One player, Bill Monroe, died in 1915! That's 59 years before the card was issued. Sorry, that's not a RC for my taste. "First card" fits the bill.

But back on topic, there certainly are a lot of gorgeous music and non-sports cards out there. I may not agree with the RC designation, but completely understand the appeal.

Basketball too given the huge gaps in production prior to 1969. 1948, 1957, 1961 so lots of "RCs" of players 5, 6 years into their careers.

When one refers to a Rookie Card, is not the adjective rookie linked to the word card itself rather than the subject of the card. If you agree then all "first" cards are equivalent to "rookie" cards. Haven't we got enough to quibble about instead of this?

Frank "still waiting for my rookie card" Burkett :D

It seems in sports, all players must have a rookie card, so that would accord with what Frank is saying.

People have really scraped the bottom of the barrel of possible things to complain about when they get triggered over the use of 'rookie card' with regards to non-sports personalities, and h2oya311 put it perfectly when he said (paraphrase alert) it was just a general way to say 'first' card.

Frank, if you send me a pic, I will gladly plug you in to a 1972 Topps 'In Action' card that you can then call your rookie (meaning FIRST) card. The only proviso is you actually have to be doing something active in the photograph (any activity under the sun counts)...which seems to be getting tougher for many of us these days. :D

Mao’s rookie card?

https://goldin.co/item/mao-zedong-si...t-bookletjglht

He is in 1951 Bowman Red Menace lol.

Ha. Good one sir.

Not "one of the rarest and most coveted" items nor "an enticing investment opportunity" for Goldin's clientele of elite collectors of genocidal dictators, but the Red Menace card offers striking artwork of what appears to be the Wicked Witch of the far east and a sword wielding executioner ape.

This should be on the list for the "clientele of elite collectors of genocidal dictators". I'm not sure if it's actually his "rookie" card or not.

I have a few Stalin postcards from the soviet era in a box around here somewhere but I have no idea if the last one of the trio has a 'rookie card'.

Alexander's rookie would be a CDV of a statue probably but this T68 is the nicest old card of another one of history's great villains of violence and mass murder. Would have been cool if his teacher got into the checklist instead.

I'm only guessing if these are the earliest examples for these two. 1955 James Dean.

Dean yes, Heston no, this is 1954. I had one of those Deans, sold it, regretted it, and can not find another lol.

I think I bought it from you!:)

LOL could be.

I would guess these are all pretty close to the first appearance for all of these folks in 1888.