Happy Festivus! Airing of Grievances 2023 Edition
 

December 23 is Festivus! Time for the annual airing of grievances. What grinds your gears in the collecting hobby?

Here is the 2022 post: https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=329338

For me, it’s people in the hobby who say one thing and do another (seen a lot of this in 2023). If you are going to say, follow through!

What’s yours?

I'm sick to death of anal-retentive, spoiled brat, silver spoon in the mouth graded cards and all the stupidity surrounding them.

I'm sick to death of card investors and investment brokers. Hope "the hobby" collapses.

I'm sick to death of the stupid prices of cards. Of course this ties in with the two points above.

I'm immediately sick of eBay's AI description of cards and sellers who use that feature.


This 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth Sports Trading Card is a must-have for any baseball fan or collector. This card features the iconic athlete in his signature batting pose and has been graded for quality assurance. Whether you're a fan of Ruth's legendary career or simply looking to expand your collection, this card is sure to impress.

The card is from the 1933 season and was manufactured by Goudey, a trusted name in sports cards. It is a single trading card and comes in a PSA 4 holder. Don't miss out on the chance to own a piece of baseball history with this stunning Babe Ruth card.

“x” has ruined the hobby. [emoji849]


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There are so many that if I started now, I might not finish until the new year.....

Someone asks for a price on an item. The answer is provide. And they then vanish and nothing is heard from them again.

Come on man ... Make some noise to wrap up the communication that you started! "I'll take it" or "Thanks but I will pass on this" or "Would you accept X?"

Something!

Rampant card doctoring and the indifference of most of the hobby to it.

Overpriced, overproduced, out the back door 1/1's that are endemic to a hobby (not even a hobby at this point) that will ultimately collapse on itself.

Fanatics taking over EVERYTHING. (This will only make things worse for the actual hobbiest.)

Case Breaks. Seriously WTF is that all about????

Not being able to buy a true wax box of cards anymore. What in the hell is a blister box, and why do they exist?

SP's, SSP's, SSSP's SSSSSSSSSSP's. And induced error cards (that is not an error card, just another damned hyped up variation).

Excuse me while I go outside and yell at some clouds.

Seriously. There can't be that many people getting into terrible car crashes right after inquiring about a collectible.

Even worse...someone contacts you about a card and makes an 'offer'. You agree to the 'offer'. Then when it's time for the payment, the potential buyer asks for an even lower price after doing more 'research'.

Happened to me last week via messaging on Ebay. What a jack-off.

Absolutely! Grading has almost ruined the hobby and priced many out of it

I agree but this goes the other way too...seller writes that they're considering offers, potential buyer writes with "would you accept X?" and never hears anything back.

Yes!! And why not list a price with the item?


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Or after submitting a reasonable and fair offer on eBay, the seller raises the BIN and blocks you.


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Non-vintage sellers selling vintage, pricing their inventory at 10x the value.

Hmmm.... when it comes to this "hobby", I don't think I want to get started.

I will say that I still enjoy looking at the stuff, but it's lost a little sparkle.

Sometimes all the whinging gets old.

I am just glad I am still upright, sniffing the air and trying to enjoy what is left of the hobby.

Grievances: None

Small annoyances: Some

Joy: A whole lot. Finished my T220 Master dream set this year, got up to 23/24 uncut sheet panels from that set, and picked up more rarities or unique pre-war stuff than I had planned. Had a ton of fun with research and piecing together more of the ATC picture. Picked up a lot of vintage football I've had a blast with. Crossed a few of the last cards off my post-war Topps/Bowman wantlists. Christmas is fun.

I lament the apparent end of vintage card scholarship inside grading companies. I've got some free time, if they need people willing to scour Newspapers.com and write cogent, 100% correct opinions! :D

And a card

100%. You shared many of those pick ups here and I enjoyed them all.

I have a massive Festivus screed scheduled to hit tomorrow morning on my Substack, so I don't want to spoil that, but I will throw this one in the ring here:

Obnoxious card bros braying like jackasses into their devices at shows as they stumble over and through other attendees while shooting their 'influencer' videos.

Hahaha, I like it. I think I'm going to start using it for my sports trading cards.

Some huge eBay dealer that randomly list half of their listings as “ undergraded “
Without even looking at the cards

For the love of everything holy, stop F*CKING constantly using the dumbass word "ICONIC"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (There aren't enough exclamation points in the universe to use at the end of that sentence!!!!!!)

Open a goddamn thesaurus!!!!!!!!!!

Other than that, Happy Festivus.

People who put tinsel on their Festivus pole. Just stop.. No tinsel poles please.

Iconic comment, bro

Look at what a simple search for the awful 'i' word returns. Twenty frickin' pages worth of individual examples, and I'm pretty certain the 20 pages is the default cut-off for searches. There have got to be THOUSANDS of pages worth:

Attachment 602344

If there is ever a newer testament to The Bible, this will undoubtedly be cited as a plague!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I have the following cards for sell"

"I'll take it" followed by having to chase people for payment. :D

These are sure to start a riot…

I hate comps and price guides. I decide what a card is worth to me. You decide what a card is worth to you. If we can meet somewhere on a price along the way, great! If not, that’s ok.

Tobacco backs are overrated. I collect baseball cards of baseball players, not tobacco ads. I could not care less what ad is on the back and I don’t need 12 of the same player’s card because the factory number or tobacco company is different. That’s just silly.

Blasphemy, I say! :)

My gripe
 

"I have $XXX into it, so have to sell for at least that..."

Your previous bad decisions or market corrections have no bearing on what it's worth today...sorry.

This card. I am very sick of this 1920 Zeenut of Nick Dumovich, and everyone else should feel the same way about it.

So sick that I think I am falling in love with this goofy little bashful guy all over again. I guess that makes me sick in love.


Brian (and in addition to my Dumovich rant, I am sick about how so many only see cards through dollar sign glasses)

One grievance that I think many of us have in common is this: You bought a few packs of cards for a dime when you were 10 years old, because you liked cards and thought they were cool but never dreamed they could be considered an investment or work of art. You kept that card in a cigar box with other cards you bought (for who knows how much money!!) at a flea market, to keep them in good shape. Flash forward 50 years and a few cards in that stash are worth $5,000 each, so you want to sell them. But then you realize that you're going to have to pay taxes on cards you probably used your hard-earned money (as a little kid) to pay sales tax on in the first place! Unfortunately, that now-grown kid hasn't got a chance in the "feats of strength!!"

I believe the asker was looking for a steal and when none was provided, they quickly scurried off.

+1

Originally Posted by jingram058 "I'm sick to death of the stupid prices of cards."

I'm sick to death of the prices of stupid cards.

I'm death to sick prices of cards of the stupid.


Brian

One mention (mine) of card doctoring and none of shill bidding. Did the hobby get cleaned up and I missed it?

Either we all have bigger complaints, or what you’ve always suspected is true.

Forbidden topics
 

Those topics make people question "Why?" they collect, seem to be worse or more visible than ever, and create rabbit holes of how you combat them (there is no easy way)...

I guess. Shill bidding once was the hottest topic in the hobby. And to me, revulsion to undisclosed card doctoring is something deeply engrained from day one.

For me, it's the price of unopened current product. Hobby boxes that used to be $80-100 with 24+ does are now $300 with 8 packs. With less value in the packs.

I think a lot of it has to do with most are just tired of listening/reading all the complaining. Then the big unpopular truth we see ALL the time. The huge eBay seller(s) that shills almost every one of their listings is a friend. So he is considered honest. Then change out shill bidder with card doctor and it is exactly the same. It is a close hobby friend so they are honest as the day is long. I have never understood this but I see it all the time.

LOL (Room full of people who care)
Yeap, the doctoring is all cleaned up. Put a bandage on it, take 2 aspirin, and see me in 3 weeks.
.

“Make me an offer.”

Okay, I offer to consider buying your card if you put a price on it.

I certainly don’t want to condone it, but I think it’s just to a point that it seems a hopeless business.

It seems like it’s everywhere. The ability to police it is limited to nonexistent. And for poor slobs like us, if our only recourse is to post about it here, it doesn’t seem to accomplish much.

I suppose the other approach is to stick to beaters with big borders, because the odds are better that they haven’t been doctored. While that’s an attractive option, it doesn’t seem to move the needle with the rest of our world.

My complaint is that the major auction houses don’t have enough auctions. I recall at least five or six days last year when I awoke to find I had nothing to bid on. Damn inconsiderate of those folks. Hopefully, they can correct that in 2024.

Good one, Jay!!

I have never understood why that bothers people. If you know what you want to pay, make an offer, no?

In my personal experience, people in the "make me an offer" camp have been laborious to deal with.

Likely a small sample size; however, personal experiences tend to shape one's personal opinions.

Peter--I think the reason is that making the first move conveys information to the other party. If one is willing to sell an item for $X but the potential buyer indicates he is willing to pay $X+ then the seller has been advantaged by not making the first move. The same is obviously true if the seller shows an offer before the buyer has bid.

It bothers me because, if you really want to sell it, put a price on it. I'm not making an offer on anything. If you're trying to sell it, price it. Otherwise you're just trying to get rich.

How many other marketplaces work like that? Not many; not even a few.

Well I am assuming Eric or whoever it is, is savvy enough to start with a low offer. If someone has a card I want, I can't imagine passing up a chance just because I'm asked to make the first move.

It's atypical for sure, but so what?
How many other marketplaces have 90 percent of the items priced at levels nobody will pay? Those sellers put a price on their items, does that make people feel better about offering?

As opposed to someone with an absurdly high price?

True, but if no one makes the first move, nothing gets sold.

I tend to ignore absurdly high prices.

Going back to the "make me an offer" tactic:

I used to try to work with people who chose that route. In the vast majority of those encounters, I wound up buying nothing and spending lots of time doing so.

Nearly everything I chase is fairly common. For example, the last card I picked up was a '56 Ted Williams in VG-EX. When I was looking for that card, I simply passed by any listing (post, showcase, etc.) where the card wasn't priced. There are plenty of copies for sale at any given moment.

I'm getting too old to waste time with people who also want to squeeze every possible penny out of me. Now, if y'all will excuse me, I'm gonna go outside and yell at some clouds.

Make me an offer...
 

I remember a few years ago, a member here posted something I was interested in, with the "make me an offer" tag. I responded with, "so it's a reverse auction, right?" He got all offended, but that's what that is, basically. I haven't seen the douche muppet on here lately, so maybe he's gone now.

A reverse auction is pretty much what we all see on BST: you start your item at a certain amount and then keep lowering the price until it's sold. Although technically, a reverse auction format should tell you in advance when the price will drop.





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Mic drop!

Nor does the earth get repopulated with humans.

Brian

Graded cards for someone who is a collector is stupid. How do you display a bunch of slabs in a way that doesn't look like a bank vault rather than a collection?

If your thing is graded cards, then you aren't someone who collects cards in a hobby. If you collect graded cards, just come out, get it over with, and say it... you're are investor. You know nothing about the ballplayers, the era in which they played, or any of that. You care about what your cards are monetarily worth. You get all excited if you discover, God forbid, a wrinkle or a crease or an ink drop, or...cardiac arrest here... it's trimmed!

I couldn't care any less about that, because, for me, it's a hobby. I don't even care if my cards are counterfeit fakes, because if they are, someone went to an awful lot of trouble, more than the actual manufacturer ever did.

Absolutely not true in every case, because I can attest to being the exception. I love my collection graded, I can’t tell you what any card sells for nor do I care, and I grade Authentics, 1’s, 2’s, etc. I’ll slab a card that I paid $5 for. Don’t care.

That's a rather unkind view of other collectors. People can collect whatever and however they want, whether it is raw, slabbed, modern, vintage...whatever. Just because I don't like it doesn't make them less valid as collectors. As long as they treat fellow collectors with respect and have fun with it, it's all good.

A card

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...20DiMaggio.jpg

I guess I must be into stupid stuff since I've owned two graded copies of this card. Couldn't just be that I enjoyed it so much that when I sold the first one I immediately started looking for its replacement...

ETA: nothing is wrong with being an investor either. Just don't be a douche.

I don’t see how any of the 3 groups - investors, collectors, or investor-collectors - are better than any of the other groups. The investors throw tantrums and attack if a collector doesn’t put the fiscal interest of investors over their own collecting, the collectors are bitter and angry at the investors and do much the same thing. It also seems to me that selling and buying cards is a painless and easy experience 99.9% of the time on either end, but that is evidently a minority view. And thus we have 67 posts in the holiday bitchfest thread and 6 in the Merry Christmas thread :).

Happy Festivus! Airing of Grievances 2023 Edition
 

Narrow take.

Just because I consider myself more a "collector" than an investor, does that mean I'm supposed to just totally throw caution to the wind with my resources and disregard what anything in my collection might be worth?

I have brokerage accounts and savings that are the bulk of my "investments", on which I hope to be able to retire one day. I'm not one of those counting on cardboard or PSA slabs to do that for me in 20+ years. But even if the cards are largely a fun thing for me as a hobby, clearly they still cost money to obtain. If I decide to get rid of something one day or shift direction as a collector, the monetary value of some of my collection might be something of interest to me, even if only for the purposes of acquiring new cards - maybe ya think? To be ignorant of such things as a collector might be the opposite of being a hardcore investor, but I would argue being totally ignorant of value at some point - especially if you are going to possess valuable cards - just makes you a dumb collector. Given all the scandals of late like slabgate, altered cards in numbered slabs and the like coming out of Covid - there is a certain price point by now that I will not buy a card above if it's raw, if I cannot physically inspect it in-person first. That's just common sense.

Maybe you don't care about authenticity, sorry; but I do; that's the entire freaking point. I recently was able to acquire an (admittedly low grade, but authentic) 1963 Topps Pete Rose RC. Why in a million years at this point would I ever buy a card like that raw online? That would make zero sense - again assuming I give a flip about authenticity. First, even in low grade - it's what I consider a fairly valuable (north of $500 anyway...) card. Second, this is one of the most notoriously faked / counterfeited cards of all time. Why take the chance, why waste my time? Yes even with crappy raw scans, I can generally tell if something is genuine or not online, I've been around the block enough times to know what to look for. But even if ebay would stand behind me, or some other entity - why would I risk going through the hassle of being out real money and having to wait on a refund or judgement when I could just buy a slab?

Sure, PSA and SGC and others have made mistakes, have made BIG mistakes, and undoubtedly will continue to do so. But once the dust settles from all of that is the more or less undisputed fact that they also get more than 95% of it RIGHT.

If you don't like slabs, or like I used to in the past - don't like the look, but can appreciate the limited value that the service provides even if you bust them later - who freaking cares? I wouldn't disparage you for hating slabs, or buying only raw. The more money you spend on raw cards, the more risk you take on. But risk tolerance is a hugely personal thing - whether you are a collector, an investor - or some combination of both - which yes sorry, is entirely possible and happens.

Maybe don't worry so much about how those different from you "hobby"...

Don't drink and post!

Well, I am totally not surprised by the responses. I would expect the regular posters to respond the way they have. net54, while I love it dearly, is what I would call "the palace of graded cards". That's how I see it. We had a saying in the Navy, "perception is reality".

There are only 2 reasons, and 2 reasons alone, for having your cards graded: you are concerned about condition, which equates to monetary value, and/or you are concerned about authenticity.

I like having my cards, and I like handling them from time to time. Likewise, the memorabilia that accompanies them. They are a direct link to both the era they come from, and to my very happy childhood.

I don't care about card grading. I am not worried in the slightest about my cards value, condition, or authenticity. They are fine for me. I doubt seriously if they are fake, but if they are, they were so well done that I can't tell. My wife and daughter will be fine if I pass away. For personal, selfish reasons, I hope and pray I go first. They will be financially fine, from my converted Veterans Group Life Insurance to real estate to health care. Not from baseball cards. They know their potential worth, but beyond that, very little interest. They both love modern day baseball, but aside from Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth, the rest of baseball history beyond the 1970s is lost on them. So you guys can get my cards and other stuff from them if I up and croak. Feel free to have them graded.

James, that's all well and good as long as you would concede the rest of us are not "stupid" simply because we hobby different from you.

N54 is hardly the only haven for graded cards. Look everywhere else around you...eBay, shops, shows, auction houses. They've been around for quite some time and are likely to stay. Whether you or I or anyone else likes it or not...

I just don't see this population you are describing. There are plenty of pure collectors here. I have never submitted a card for grading. I have cracked out probably north of 1,000 by now. There are several OBC low grade raw guys here. There are plenty of other raw or not-money focused collectors posting. I email, call or text at least 20 from people here regularly about pure collecting of raw cards. The most viewed thread of all time, by far, on the post-war board here is about print variants in which 90% of the cards shown cost less than $7.

I also hope the market will have a true collapse, as it will make cards cheaper for collectors like me. I understand a couple of the more intense or immature investors throw a very public tantrum any time it's said (50/50 odds we'll have a new thread tomorrow whining a collector isn't putting someone else's investment portfolio first) but most seem to understand collectors and investors are doing two different things that are advantaged by different market movements. Most people have to care at some level though; most of us don't have a guaranteed retirement and families who are fine no matter what happens to our stuff. Maybe I will have to care someday if things change or if I get really sick - 99% of the population is just one run of very bad luck away from having to scrape by or is scraping by already. I am conscious it is a position of financial privilege that I have been able to collect some cards at all in my life. Not all of us have that fortunate guaranteed future you seem to have. That's a wonderful thing, good for you, but most of us are not in that boat.

Most investors still know their stuff. I haven't come across anyone in card land who "knows nothing about the ballplayers" as you claimed. As a 100% collector and 0% investor, some of my favorite people in the hobby are in the investor class. A person need not have the same goal I do to not be "stupid". In fact we can usually benefit each other - they want money more and I want cards more, so we can usually work a deal out that leaves us both happy and satisfied. I even, dare say, have probably had more help and aid from the investor class in my boxing research projects and surveys than I have had from the true-collector class.

People can have different ends in a hobby and still be decent folk. My way, which seems to effectively be the same as your way, is no better than X or Y's way. There's just a couple extremists on each 'side' that can't stand to hear anything done differently from them. One of the nice things about a hobby like this is you get 100% free choice of how to do it. You can collect, invest, do both, be social and active, or just quietly do things your own way. What another person chooses to do, while interesting because it's my hobby, doesn't really affect me much.

John, I seriously concede that you guys are not stupid.

Greg, I truly love your well thought out posts. Thank you, sir.

Well, I haven't been around as much lately. Maybe I'm the douche muppet. Have no fear douche muppet aficionados, I'm alive and well. Hi Geno.:D

Haha...No, it certainly was not you, Frank!

Cheers,
Geno

All good. Thanks.

People who make (usually lowball) offers on eBay items with no OBO option. If I wanted to hear how much less you feel like paying, the OBO option would have been part of the listing. Get lost!