Alex Rodriguez Thinks He Is Entitled
 

I don't vent much, but when this article "Alex Rodriguez doesn't understand why Yankees haven't retired his No. 13: 'It bothers me" came out recently, it definitely hit a nerve with me. I've been an Alex Rodriguez fan and collector since 1995. What irks me about him, even after all the negative crap that he has done, is his constant narcissistic and self-entitled attitude.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/alex-...retired-number

Arod lied about doing PEDs, got caught, then did it again; being suspended for the entire 2014 season (that sure helped the Yankees; great job Arod). He initiated a lawsuit against Baseball, Players Union, over PED investigation (which he was guilty of), which he later dropped. He sued the Yankees Doctor, which he later dropped. His negative conduct, at times, as a player with the Yankees, wasn't something to be proud of.

After all of the above, and more, he doesn't understand why Yankees haven't retired his No. 13. And to top it off, admits feeling slighted when Joey Gallo was allowed to wear the number during his disastrous run with the team. Yes, slams Gallo in the process.

Here's my advice to Arod, "keep your mouth shut! You're not entitled to anything!"

He's also a lousy announcer. I don't understand why ESPN hired him for their broadcasts. Before they moved him to ESPN2 (I think with Michael Kay), if I ever wanted to watch the game he was announcing, I would mute the sound so I didn't have to hear him.

I can understand self-centered people but he’s diluted on top of it. The last thing anyone remembers A-rod for is NOT hitting 700 home runs and getting suspended for an entire season. Why would the Yankees celebrate him in any way?

More full of himself than anyone I have seen in my lifetime.

For all his "all about me" BS stats, he is the most un-clutch hitter I ever saw.

Coasting on past glory is not the worst strategy for a franchise when your current team kind of sucks...

The Yankees are a mere shell of their former franchise.

As a life-long Yankee fan, this bothers me the most.

100% agree. They are a shell that has gotten by on branding alone. They don't even need to be the world beaters they used to be, to print money.

Totally. I still can't get over the fact that they trot out guys like IKF and Josh Donaldson while ostensibly trying to win baseball games.

According to fans of the Cincinnati Reds, the most unclutch hitter of all time is Joey Votto.
And as for shell of former glory, this makes me feel good. They have won 4 titles since Reds last won in 1990. However, I'm sure they will figure out how to right their ship. Yankees owner is still better than the Reds owner.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

I think A-Rod might be the most insecure "elite" athlete in history.

I'm still shocked after all these years that he even agreed to move over to 3rd base from SS, to accommodate Derek Jeter, when he came to the Yankees to begin with.

That was the only way that trade was ever going to happen, so it also shows how much he wanted to be "loved" by New York.

I'm a Yankee fan, and even I'm surprised at the accumulated statistics that A-Rod put up while with the Yankees...so a part of me says he may have a point.

A bigger part of me says "hell no", for many of the reasons already illustrated in this thread.

He might be more popular if he actually owned up to his "villain" status, but his need to be loved, adored, and paid attention to by everybody in his orbit...just makes him all the more insufferable.

I'm pretty convinced the only reason he only dated "celebrities" for so long, was because he thought it kept him "relevant"...not because he was ever in love with any of them...and I think they all figured that out about him at some point.

Both A-Rod and Clemens were likely taking PED's of some sort, while with the Yankees...but I believe most Yankee fans have much more positive thoughts about Clemens.......who was also a bit of a villain, but never pretended to be a good guy about it.

Clemens was kind of an asshole...but A-Rod was a vain, insecure, backstabbing asshole, and nobody really likes that in a personality.

I think the next number will be CC but never A-rod. Maybe Matsui down the line.

A-Rod
 

Fun! I rarely miss out on an opportunity to bag on this douche (that HAS
to be worth some points)... A-rod is the emperor with no clothes! Amazes me
when people cite him as a player who should be HOF. His entire career is
PED driven, the whole thing! What a tool.

Trent King

They hired him, paying him a lot of money, and even extended his contract. Somebody likes him at ESPN
And for all he has done wrong some how he still always on the news, is an astute businessman making loads of money and he is an owner of a basketball team.

That's what I do every time John Smoltz starts talking.

I hadn't seen Arod in years and saw him when watching a playoff game recently. He seemed to have by far the darkest tan I have ever seen on him. Is this something new?

Last year, I think Smoltz announced most of the Phillies games and by the end of the World Series, I had heard enough from him. This year he hasn't done any of their games so I haven't had to listen to him until the Phillies (hopefully) get back to the World Series. Still, I would take him any time over ARod.

Asshole? Absolutely. One of the most unlikeable players ever? For sure. Still unlikeable? Yep. Overrated as a baseball player? No.

Without knowing how long he was really on PEDs and what the true impact on his playing ability was, I think it's hard to say if he's overrated or not. If he was using them his whole career then how do you really know?

You could say that about almost anyone except Derek Jeter. How do we really know many more guys who didn't get caught weren't using?

A Rod
 

Peter- you just can’t stay on topic, can you? Keep it between the lines? No sir, gotta be different…the topic HERE is A Rod, not “other players”. “Other players” aren’t lamenting one of their former teams’ lack of interest in retiring their numbers, in some feeble attempt to stay relevant. That’s A Rod, and this is somewhere in the neighborhood of his one thousandth display of jackassery. He was a carpetbagger his entire career and his stat line is an asterisk- all of it. Any defense of him is you just playing games. Trent King

Agreed I am not a John Smolz fan either

It was a perfectly fair question in response to Jay's, because it brought up the difficulty with evaluating anyone during the steroid era including ARod, but I am sorry it triggered your OCD about going off topic. Hope all is well with you.

The Yankees retired Andy Pettitte's number in 2015; years after it became public knowledge that Pettitte was a steroid user and got dragged into the legal problems of that time over it.

The Yankees determined that steroid use is not a disqualifier for number retirement, nor is bad publicity in regards to it.

So... why wouldn't A-Rod's be retired, if the Yankees will retire the numbers of Steroid users? He was a far better player than Pettitte.

Seems like common sense that he would, thus, both qualify and merit number retirement.

Arod seems to do some serious triggering, LOL.
He was still a generational talent, that happens to be a douche.
I think there are many of those out there, that likely weren’t/aren’t as talented.

You know the answer. When a nice guy does it, they forgive it.

I would never ask a leading question I damn well know the answer to is corruption, hypocrisy or indefensible double standards.

There's a lot to be said when a media- and image-savvy person like A Rod publicly expresses resentment for his number not being retired and, even worse, that someone who didn't end up having a great year got to wear his number.

That's exactly why his number hasn't been retired by the Yankees. I don't think it's either necessary or sufficient for a player to have the greatest individual stats to get their number retired by their former team. Look at Gooden and Strawberry for the Mets. On the other hand, if a sizable part of the fan base uses words like "douchebag" and "self-centered" to describe you, it's going to be an uphill battle. Why? Because the fans don't want to see the jersey of a self-centered douchebag hanging from their rafters.

I don’t know why Pettitte got brought up. He pitched 16 seasons for the Yankees, won 5 titles, and was one of the most recognizable players on the championship teams. There were only two other Yankee pitchers with retired numbers when they retired his. He’s an all time Yankee. Alex Rodriguez was not.

ARod
 

Good morning net54ers-

bk400- perfectly put.

Peter Spaeth- I've said it before, bears repeating. People who dive behind
words like "triggered" have surrendered their legitimacy at the starting gun.
The mere fact that I called out your extraordinarily short attention span
doesn't mean I'm triggered- it's called discernment, and mine is based on
example after example. Truly, I'm stunned you didn't shoehorn an insult
about SGC while you were attempting to move the goalposts-again- on a
topic. The topic is ARod, not Pettitte, "other guys", etc.

Bottom line- ripping on ARoid is FUN low hanging fruit, which is entirely on
him. His 12 years with NY produced 1 Series win. He consistently feuded
with their front office, was suspended an entire season, and generally made
everything he possibly could make, about him. He admitted to steroid use
as far back as 2001, and Biogenisis clearly coincided with his prime Yankee
years later. He was a constant distraction who cared only about himself. I'm
no Yankee fan- an understatement- but their history is rich enough that they
can say "thanks, no thanks" to retiring this clown's number.


Trent King

Well said! Even after baseball, Arod continues to do everything he can to stay relevant, which is just more annoying to me. He takes his gum disease, like it's something new he discovered, and goes on shows to share his story, wanting to warn everyone, so he can save the world. Freakin annoying! It just never ends with Arod. It truly is difficult to like the guy.

I will say this. Putting all of his bull crap aside, I still always loved watching him play baseball.

He also opted out during the World Series. Nine out of ten memories a Yankees fan has of A-rod are about BS like that.

There is no reason to look at stats or accomplishments for A-rod. This is about being a Yankee fan and considering whether or not he really has any place in any discussion about the greatest Yankees. I can't imagine there are many of us who think he does.

You will also not see anyone wearing a number 13 jersey at the stadium.

Because, as very directly said, Pettitte is the clear and obvious proof PED’s are not a disqualifier and was less impressive numbers wise. A-Rod is the #1 Yankee 3B, and it’s not particularly close even. He’s an “all-time Yankee” by math if not emotion.

Why would there not be emotion involved? This is about retired numbers not stats or WAR. Pettitte is a fan favorite beloved Yankee and has nothing in common with Alex Rodriguez. Fans will never link them so there’s no reason to say because fans love Pettitte they must love someone else.

Because this thread was pretending it was about his PED use and scandal, which is a complete fiction with Pettitte as the obvious proof of that. The claim that Pettitte is an all time performing yankee and Rodriguez is not is laughably absurd. The real answer is that A-Rod is cast as a villain, and this has nothing to do with merit, consistency, or fairness. That’s the entire point.

Arod
 

Packs- good luck now that 1911 is weighing in. He’s never been wrong, just ask him. The #1 rule for 1911- he’s always right, and for heaven’s sake don’t question it… Now, for actual reality. Your point about emotion being part of number retirement- which again, Arod himself made news- is spot on. He is NOT an “all time” anything. His entire offensive output is asterisk- all of it. Trent King

Retiring a number is all about fan service. Talking about stats is meaningless to the conversation. Alex Rodriguez is a not a beloved player for any of the franchises he played with. The Yankees retiring his number wouldn’t make any more sense than the Mariners retiring it, which I highly doubt they’ll ever do.

Fundamentally, retiring a number is about fans saying goodbye to the player. No one is holding a candle for Alex Rodriguez.

All equivalencies are not the same. False equivalencies are neither pragmatic or logical. One guy being an asshole, doesn't cancel out another guy being a much bigger asshole. (There, I just said the same thing 3 different ways, for anybody who doesn't understand my point)

Yankees have no obligation to A-Rod...and A-Rod played out his contract as if he had no obligation to New York or even his own Players Union, whom he tried to sue when they couldn't overturn his well deserved suspension.

Most team union heads wanted to kick him out of the union after he pulled that stunt. He has no respect within the league, never mind within the Yankee organization.

A simple Google search shows his scumbaggery knows no bounds. Baseball related, and non-baseball related.

I don't care if David Ortiz has a PED strike against him or not. I don't care that I've rooted against David Ortiz for a large part of my adult life as a Yankee fan. Every time he subtly (or un-subtly) emasculates and embarrasses A-Rod on National Television, it brings a little smile to my face every time.

Don't care how much A-Rod's laughing (or crying) all the way to the bank. That doesn't garner respect from me. That doesn't mean he's "doing something right". :confused:

Call it hypocritical if you want, but I've long ago come to terms with the fact that "hypocrisy" is one of the most overused and misused terms in our language. We're all hypocrites in some way shape or form. Some more-so than others. Best to just acknowledge it and move on.

ARod
 

Packs- sounds like we are on same sheet of music here and saying it differently. ARod has one thing to hang his hat on in his one man effort to get a number retired- that’s personal achievement. That one thing has been rendered null and void by his own stupidity. There is NOTHING great about ARod, so the team sees no need to retire a number at his request. Trent King

Then make that argument in the first place. From post #1 this thread largely pretended it is about steroids; which is demonstrably false. You chose to make the argument the difference is that Pettitte is an all time Yankee but the far and away greatest 3B is not and this is not meritous is also demonstrably false.

If the argument is now (take 3) that yes, it has nothing to do with merit and is about narratives of heroes and villains independent of ascertainable fact, then we actually agree lol.

Again, why would it not be? Retiring a number has nothing to do with stats. It's fan service and something that is typical reserved for the most beloved players a franchise has ever had. There is no magic number for having your number retired. Nobody cares what your batting average was.

You brought up Pettitte like he informed the conversation, but he doesn't. Because unlike A-rod, Pettitte is someone fans loved.

Yankees should just start handing out his number randomly to no-hoper September AAA call-ups...see if they can get him to start crying on air, while Big Papi loudly laughs at him just off camera.


:D:D:D:D


My last post on this matter.







Probably not. ;)

I don’t choose the arguments other people make. I didn’t choose the canard of an argument that Pettitte is an all-time team Yankee and A-Rod isn’t. I didn’t choose the complete fiction that it’s about PED’s. Surely you can understand that Pettitte is the proof the original claim of the thread is untrue. PED scandal is not the line keeping him out, because they put in a worse player with PED scandals. No shit Pettitte informs that argument, because he’s the proof it’s false. I said from the get go media and fan narratives independent of fairness or fact is what it’s about. You seem to believe the same thing.

The first post was about why someone doesn't like A-Rod and did not include any references to anything the Yankees have said about A-Rod. If you're saying it's impossible to discuss retiring numbers at any point after that without talking about Andy Pettitte, that is not fact either.

I also have no idea what your beef is with Pettitte or why you're pretending he's not an all-time Yankee. He so obviously is and is so obviously beloved by everyone who follows the Yankees. I mean, what are you suggesting about him when you say things like it's a "canard of an argument" to talk about him being one of the all-time Yankees? How is that false at all?

.... I don't know how to make this any simpler. None of these words are complex. PED's is not the line; we know this because Pettitte was another PED user caught up in scandal over it they retired. That is why Pettitte is relevant; he is the undeniable proof that claim is false. This is incredibly simple.


I have given no opinion whatsoever on Pettitte, despite this lie of a claim. I liked him as a teen, he was a fun pitcher. It's just completely irrelevant.

I did not say talking about Andy Pettitte as an all time yankee is a canard, I say putting him and not A-Rod is a canard. A-Rod is far and away the all-time Yankee 3B. Pettitte is probably one of the starting pitchers. Your argument that Pettitte is a good retirement choice because he is on the all-time Yankee team is ridiculous, because so is A-Rod. Never did I "pretend" Pettitte is not, it's just that so is A-Rod so this is an absurdist argument.

You do a lot better if you argue against what was actually said and not bullshit you completely made up and is nowhere in the transcript.

Here is what your post said "I didn’t choose the canard of an argument that Pettitte is an all-time team Yankee and A-Rod isn’t."

Here is what your recent post said: "I did not say talking about Andy Pettitte as an all time yankee is a canard,"

I have bolded and enlarged the clause you are completely ignoring, so maybe you can figure it out.

You are still treating subjective things like they're provable facts or something. I said Pettitte was an all-time Yankee because he is. How do I know that? Because the franchise retired his number and put a monument of him in Monument Park.

You took that to mean there is some kind of starting nine or something that A-Rod belongs to and it's absurd to say he doesn't. But that has nothing to do with who fans consider to be all-time players for their franchise. Because once again, something like retiring someone's number or seeing them as an all-time player for your team is determined by the fan base and not stats.

I see we're doing the shift since you can't explain not being able to read the second clause, as usual.

We all know A-Rod is an all-time great Yankee and by far their best 3B. Your reformulation here is that "A-Rod is not because he isn't retired and Pettitte is because he is retired" - no shit, we know A-Rod hasn't had his number retired, Sherlock :rolleyes:. The discussion is whether or not he should be or it is reasonable for him to expect to be.

It is pretty obvious to everyone that you don't follow the Yankees, you don't have an informed opinion on who the franchise honors or why, and you don't know how Yankee fans feel about their own players.

But you are correct always.

And it's pretty obvious you can't read sentences with more than one clause.

What Greg is saying is really not that hard to grasp. I don't know why people are fighting it.

Because it has nothing to do with anything. A-Rod can't put up stats that will convince anyone to retire his number. He himself would have been the catalyst and we know how that turned out.

Because I said it :D

ARod
 

Peter- You're correct in that this isn't hard to grasp, you are just getting the
"hard to grasp" item wrong (deliberately, in all likelihood)...

The original post was a self-described "vent" by someone who expressed
astonishment/contempt/bemusement about the continuous self-involved
exploits of ARod, who apparently had to start a campaign to get his number
retired by the Yankees (yes, he's burrowing ever lower into the desperate
former athlete category). This is very, very easy to follow UNTIL people
derail. You and the omniscient baseball guru 1911 fall into this category.
You and 1911 are essentially the "ARods" of this thread, actually- blissfully
unaware that you are in the wrong and dug in. Feel free to stay there, but
it won't make either of you right.

Bottom line: the Yankees organization clearly feels that they have no need,
and certainly no obligation, to honor a fecal stain who caused them
headache after headache. It's their call, everything else is smoke. Capisce?

Trent King

Oh, if only omniscience was as easy to achieve as recognize the indisputable fact that PED scandal is not the barrier to Yankee number retirement we would all be omniscient.

I am always amused when you and I are throw in together, Peter, considering that we do nothing but argue with each other and agree on almost nothing under the sun beyond some elementary underling facts of whatever the issue is.

Post 20 raised the PED question as to whether he was overrated as a player. I responded to that by questioning how anyone in the steroid era could be fairly evaluated, and Greg pointed out that PEDs could not be the reason for devaluing ARod by the Yankees given how they treated Petitte. This is all clearly within the subject, easy to understand, and I don't know what your issue is at this point, though I won't take it personally if you want to rant and rave some more.

ARod
 

1911- And I'm always amused when you anoint yourself the undisputed
arbiter of fact. Got anything pertaining to the initial point of the post? King

Trent King

It has been explained at length that the only thing that factors into a number being retired is how the franchise and fans feel about the player.

But you choose to discuss stats and PEDs, which can impact how fans feel about a player, but do not actually represent credentials for retiring your number.

You mean the original post that called out his PED use as a disqualifying reason? Yes, go read!

I know it's been a month since my favorite stalker has carried on his personal vendetta, but try harder.

ARod
 

Peter- nope, not gonna work. There's no ranting or raving, all breakable
objects in my home are quite safe. Blood pressure checks ok, good to go.
Try to stay on point next time- wait. Don't try, actually do it. Anything related
to the scope of the original thread post, or is it more diversion? Trent King

PS- I already know the answer to that question.

Since a preponderance of the evidence suggests people are unwilling or unable to read correctly, here is the original post making PED's and related scandalous conduct part of the on-topic discussion, bolded.

My question whether players from the steroid era (including ARod) can be fairly evaluated is clearly on topic to the OP.. Next point?

But evaluated for what? The article and thread title is about whether the Yankees should retire a player's number. There are no statistical parameters for that.

ARod
 

1911- yep, I just learned to read last week, so I'm glad you posted the
original thread again. Problem is, that post directly mentions narcissism,
entitlement, PED, and suing his own collective bargaining unit and Yankees
personnel(!). Once again, you pick and choose to support your own derailing
remarks... Not going to work, all you are doing here is digging in because
someone dares oppose you. Perhaps you should fire off an email to Yankees
management with your cogent explanation of why ARod's number should be
retired. I'm SURE they'll have his jersey up in no time- that'll show us!!

Lastly, I'm not a stalker and don't have a vendetta either. The vast majority
of my interactions on net54 are with collectors about cards. Once in awhile
I see a fly that needs shooed away. Since you have such a keen mind, I'm
sure you can figure out who is the fly, and who is doing the shooing.

Trent King

If, to be on topic, one can only restate the entirety of the OP and address every single point therein without focusing in on a claim therein or expressing differing opinion or contradictory fact, then how is your tantrum on topic? You're even more 'off-topic'. Are you going to call a foul on yourself? No?

Again - I never even argued that A-Rod's number should be retired. I said the reason preferred was demonstrably untrue, which it is, and it has nothing to do with a fair evaluation of performance or consistency. For the 500th time, A-Rod is not kept out because of PED scandal. We know this because the Yankees have already honored such players. That is the argument actually made. It is blatantly obvious. The bullshit people make up to argue against instead is not the actual argument made.

You come and bitch at me once every 2 months or so no matter what the issue is with these outlandish over the top overage over the most innocuous of statements. Remember when you threw a tantrum in one of Net54's funniest threads of all time about what a horrible guy I am and always right because I was against lynching people as a general concept? I sure do! https://net54baseball.com/showthread...=327610&page=3. It's a shame that, unlike Packs who for some reason is always exempt from the rule, I have to disclose my ID to the nutballs whose heads I clearly live in rent-free lol

ARod
 

1911- I vaguely recall you making idiotic remarks about me in a deliberate
misrepresentation of what I said. But, that essentially describes every
interaction you have, where someone doesn't mindlessly accept your
manifestos. Since I rarely agree with you, it often happens. You portray me
as some maniac, aren't even close to right, make claims about "appeals to
authority" and other inanities, then resort to name calling while still daring
to portray yourself as a neutral commenter without bias. Rinse and repeat...

Back to the topic(!!). Arod's habitual PED use is NOT the sole, or even
primary, reason his number isn't hanging in the rafters in NY. I certainly
haven't alleged it. He is a serial offender in numerous ways that alienate any
person from any organization, in this case fans of that organization too, for a
timespan of 12 years. He's essentially written the book on how to make a
group of people who were destined to admire him, despise him instead- and
he can't stop even in retirement. The results are in- he's not up there, and
does not merit it. He's wealthy, he's famous, and he's not respected. THAT is
his own fault and it's under his skin. Move on.

Trent King

The funniest part of this display is that everyone apparently agrees with the statement - that PED use and scandal is not and cannot be the reason A-Rod is excluded. Even when they agree with the statement, the normal nutter and the illiterates will bitch up a storm - and then wind up agreeing with the innocuous statement they evidently forget was allegedly the source of their tantrum.

How many average beloved players have had their number retired?

Andy Pettitte is a hint above average.

3 All Star appearances in 18 years, basically a 4.00 lifetime ERA. Eh.

ARod
 

1911- you and the facts have again parted company, you aren’t as level headed and unbiased as you claim. PEDs are one of a laundry list of reasons this tool isn’t getting what he craves. You’re wrong, it’s a cited reason but not the only reason. That’s the beauty of Arod- you can’t swing a stick without hitting a reason to dislike him. You 2 are alike in that regard. Try harder. Trent King

Yeah but 250 wins and all those postseasons, I hear you, but is there a better example of the "Packs rule"?

No, no average players no matter how beloved get their #'s retired.

Unless you count they were an average player, but then became a very good coach/manager, but just true average players no matter how beloved do not get their #'s retired.

If so the Cubs would have retired Buckner, DeJesus, Mark Grace, among others.

Gotta put up numbers.

But Pettite, maybe Michael Young (Texas), Jimmy Wynn (Houston), Strawberry & Gooden (Mets) are among the weakest out there compared to the Greats of the game that have their #'s retired.

While of course there some intangibles, it seems to me stats are the foundation and the most important consideration.

A lot of the Yankees have their number retired because of what they meant to the team. There are 23 numbers retired and 10 of them are not HOFers. One of the HOFers is Phil Rizzuto.

The Red Sox retired Johnny Pesky’s number.

The Angels retired Jim Fregosi’s number.

The Astros have retired 9 numbers of which 3 are HOFers.

The Guardians retired Mel Harder’s number.

There are other examples as well. It all depends on how you feel about sometimes all stars and whether you’re a fan of that team.

Off topic! This post deviates from the OP, and is thus off topic. Get on topic

True, but Pesky, Harder & Fregosi were all coaches/managers after their playing careers were over, so they stayed with their organization, so they didn't get their number retired by playing career only.

The Twins retired Hrbek’s number. The Padres did Randy Jones. The White Sox have Konerko and Buerhle. Willie Horton on the Tigers. Frank White on the Royals. It’s a fan service and if you’re loved it gets to be about more than stats.