Top 3 — Most Important
 

Who are the top 3 most important baseball players (in your opinion) of all time and why?

Ruth, Jackie, the Third I don’t know 🤷*♂️

I'd argue Anson, Ruth and Jackie.

Anson was the first star to make the game marketable. He was the draw, he popularized the idea of a pitching rotation, and using signs as a means to communicate with players.

Ruth and Jackie because they ushered in new eras for baseball. It is ironic though that if it wasn't for Anson's extreme prejudice towards Black Americans, and the subsequent "gentlemen's agreement" that baseball should be segregated, then Jackie's impact would've been lessened, as their would've been no color barrier to break.

Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson
Curt Flood

Cobb - first superstar
Ruth - the ultimate superstar
Jackie - broke color barrier

+1

IMHO…Ruth-grew baseball internationally, Jackie-broke the color barrier, McGwire/Sosa-reinvigorated fan’s love of the game with the Home Run chase of ‘98.

Ruth, Jackie and Branch Rickey. I'll give Rickey a spot since he was a player years before. He deserves it. Find me three men who changed the game more than these.

Creighton
Ruth
Rickey

Well said. These would be my three also

Ruth, Robinson and Tommy John!

Cobb, Ruth, Jackie

That’s easy
Anson
Cobb
Ruth

Side note
Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa brought me back in to collecting

John Ward
Babe Ruth
Joe DiMaggio

Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson
Curt Flood/Al Spalding (tie)

Honorable Mention: Clemente

How about pitchers:
1. Young
2. Matty
3. Johnson

As many have said, it's gotta be Ruth and Jackie Robinson - but I would add Rube Foster as the third

Two pitchers come to mind that caused MLB to change the rules while they were still playing.

Amos Rosie threw so hard that the league moved the pitchers box farther back in 1893, to its current 60' 6".

Bob Gibson was so dominant that the league lowered the mound in 1969 from 15 inches to 10 inches.

Neither rule change affected their subsequent performance.

Wally Joyner
Matt Nokes
Brien Taylor

Ruth
Jackie Robinson
Roberto Clemente

Tinker
Evers
Chance

All the other good ones were taken. Thought I’d be different…. :D

These were the 3 I thought of before I opened the thread. Tommy John, already said above, is another good one.

I had to read Rickey a few times before I realized you didn't mean Henderson.

For cards...

Wagner
Titus
Bartirome

I agree with these 3


But flood was a game changer

I think we're cutting hairs asking about generational game-changers. All of the following are exceptional choices for top three most impactful individuals:
1) Anson....for good and bad.
2) Ruth.... popularized the game around the world and helped keep interest after 1919 cheating scandal.
3) Rickey & Jackie should be a pair honored together.
4) Curt Flood for his free agent lawsuit.
5) McGwire and Sosa should also be considered as a trio with Bud Selig. Their choices and opportunities for good and bad changed baseball.
6) Rob Manfred...I think he's an idiot, he can't censor himself, but he's trying to modernize the game to attract younger viewers and in 20 years he might be revered for his actions.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

In 20 years Manfred may also be known as the first commissioner to allow gambling to infiltrate MLB.

+1 Hard to argue with that, but it is tempting to put Willie Mays into the mix. Nobody drew fans like Willie, the most exciting player of his generation.

And the guy who permanently ruined extra inning baseball during the regular season

I would argue with it, as King Kelly was the game's first superstar, not Cobb

.......
 

Gehrig
Jackie
Hodges

You will not find any better gentleman of the diamond.

Ambassadors who embodied the purity of the game and played it the way it was meant to be played.

Matty begs to be on this list so he is tied with Hodges. :)

Christy Mathewson

Babe Ruth

Jackie Robinson


Babe and Jackie, for obvious reasons. Matty broadened the appeal beyond where it had been; he brought an air of respectability to the baseball player as a professional.

Yeah, its hard to pin down one original superstar.

There was Ross Barnes, George Wright, Jim Creighton, King Kelly, and Dan Brouthers among other early stars of the game.

Quite a few well thought out responses...

1 Cap Anson
2 Babe Ruth
3 Jackie Robinson


4 AG Spalding
5 Curt Flood
6 Ty Cobb
7 Christy Mathewson (people would go to see the college boy pitch)
8 John Montgomery Ward
9 Lou Gehrig
10 John McGraw

Lefty O'Doul should be on the list somewhere for fostering professional baseball in Japan.

1) Doc Adams: wrote the “Rules of Baseball”, invented the shortstop position, advocated for the 9 man and 9 inning game, set the base paths 90 feet apart. Should be in the HOF.
2) Babe Ruth
3) Jackie Robinson

Harry Wright
Ruth
Jackie
=====
Ruth and Jackie are undeniable....I also thought about Spalding and Ward instead of Harry Wright for the 19th Century slot..... Others who come to mind are Rube Foster (the father of the first Negro Leagues and a great pitcher), Cal Ripken (for reinvigorating the game post-strike), John McGraw for strategic impact, Ned Hanlon for his "managerial tree" (which included McGraw !); Amos Rusie and Bob Gibson both semed to bring about rule changes; Ted Williams (not just for his singular excellence as a hitter but for speaking out for including the Negro Leaguers in the HOF); Roberto Clemente; and, projecting out a little, I think Ichiro Suzuki will be considered very important.

Other players were truly great but I'm not sure how "important" they really were: Nichols, Young, Cobb, Speaker, Gehrig, Hornsby, Ott, DiMaggio, Mantle, McGwire, Barry Bonds, Pujols and ARod...

Ruth & Jackie are obvious.

Curt Flood is an interesting choice though, ultimately, he failed. Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally were the ones who ended the reserve clause.

Maybe Barry Bonds - his destruction of the record book brought us steroid testing.

Baseball was a much more popular game when Cobb came along, as a result, I believe his influence was much greater on the general public. Just look at the popularity of baseball cards in 1909-1910 compared to earlier years or the rise of the Sporting Life and other publications that really took off after Kelly was big. Cobb was in every newspaper, he had a nickname, he was in plays, people loved and hated him and showed up in huge numbers when he played to see him or boo him. He held out and negotiated his contract, something nobody ever did before and he made being a "ball player" a more respectable career, whereas before ball players were bums who couldn't get real jobs. And, his face was all over trading tobacco, confectionary, and candy cards.

Maybe Kelley or Anson, or Lajoie or Wagner for that matter, were superstars on the field/to the people who played. To the general public, Cobb was the first superstar baseball player - which to me means he transcended the sport and thus did more for it than anyone prior.

I came here to say that, though more in the context of Anson than Cobb. King Kelly was a fasciating player in that he was the first to transcend baseball and be a full blown celebrity.

However, Anson was a renown racist and an influential one who probably was the MLB figure most responsible for delaying integration until Jackie Robinson finally broke that barrier.

I think racism in baseball has been addressed, the more relevant question is how we avoid creeps like Wander Franco from having sex with minors.

I would have to list six. The first answer to almost any baseball question is Ruth. Jackie, for obvious reasons. Cobb, for obvious reasons. One not mentioned, yet, or not mentioned much, Mantle.. The personification of baseball in one of its greatest decades. An American folk hero. Clemente. Not the first Latin player, but the first great one. And finally, same concept, Ichiro.

To me that’s like saying: “We’ve discussed that already but wasn’t John Wilkes Booth a hell of an actor”?

I'm sure my comment would be taken that way. Is there a point where racism is not the only narrative? Racisim is a horrible thing and should never be tolerated. We should recognize Anson's racism and the general Southern racism that is thanfulliy dying out. That being said, let's not be lazy and rely on old racist memes. Shouldn't we be more concerned with the bad behavior of our current sports stars no matter the color of their skin?

Agree. In no way am I minimizing racism, but actual violent criminal behavior is, to me, worse than the most vile words. My mom used to say, "Actions speak louder than words..." Beating up a woman is worse than calling her a racist name.

My Grandad
My Dad
My Son

This would be my three.

Chad

This is a sincere question for the Anson people:

King Kelly's career overlaps almost entirely with Cap Anson. Did baseball need Cap Anson while it also had King Kelly?

I'm not buying into this idea that Anson was unusually important to the sport's early popularity. I think King Kelly was doing the exact same thing at the exact same time and was probably far more famous while he was alive.

But was he the inspiration for Casey at the Bat?

Perhaps.

I'll tell you who wasn't: Cap Anson.

The idea Anson's good outweighed the bad is not something I can ever get on board with. No one hurt baseball more than Anson when he championed segregation. No one robbed baseball of more until Landis reaffirmed it.

Doc Adams
Jackie Robinson
Curt Flood

It's safe to assume that the accomplishments of the latter two would have been accomplished by two other people if Jackie and Curt had never been born but not that baseball as we know it today would exist if Doc Adams hadn't, so I'll put him first.

+1. And I agree that King Kelly was just a big as star as Anson, so I don't see why Anson should be singled out as being more important to the development of baseball.

Totally fair.

While Kelly may not have been in as many newspapers, I believe all the rest of this applied to Kelly in his day.

To me, Jim Creighton was the first star player and Kelly the first superstar. That said, I don't fault anyone for putting Cobb on their "3 most important" list. I do believe that there should be a 19th century player on the list though. For me that would be Anson for (both good and bad) reasons others have stated.

I would think Cobb's place is earned because there was no one like him until he arrived. Every 19th century player paled in comparison to Ty Cobb. No one had ever considered someone could be as good as Cobb was until you saw Cobb.

He was simply the best player who ever lived until Ruth hits his prime and there have been very few players of his caliber since.

It's interesting, Thayer denied it, but Casey sure has that Kelly swagger, doesn't he?

I agree that Cobb is a top 2 player of all time. I guess that's the thing though - "most important" vs. "first superstar" vs. "greatest" are all different questions, to me at least.

I would say that Cobb played an important role between moving away from the old game and moving toward the new game that arrived with Ruth.

Cobb is still 4th all time in WAR and 2nd in hits. If Ruth never existed Ty Cobb takes his place. That puts him in the Top 3 in my mind.

There have been so many incredible players that in order to select my picks, they had to do more than just be incredible on the field. As in something gargantuan. Ruthian. Hell, he's his own adjective! Ruth changed the way the game was played from his time onward. He brought fame and more fans to the game on a global spectrum than absolutely nobody before or since has remotely come close to rivalling, and I don't see it happening again.

Naturally, Jackie and Branch Rickey make the cut for me because of their place in history. There wasn't anything more important for North American society vis a vis baseball than the Rickey/Robinson Experiment. The poster who said that they could share a spot might be on to something, but these are not hard and fast rules! ;) I gave them each a spot. No big deal.

For baseball diehards, some of your other choices are understandable to people in our circles, but they would be mean nothing to an outsider. Lowering the mound by a few inches? Laughable and meaningless to practically anyone you'd ask who wasn't a baseball nut. Even challenging the reserve clause really wouldn't phase an average non-fan. If they know the name Cobb, chances are it's more because of his supposed racism. Ask them about Babe, or about Jackie, and they'll undoubtedly be able to give you some info as to why they were meaningful. Jim Creighton? Pfft. I guarantee you there are many people on this very board who don't even know who he is.

Okay, but the question was who was the most important in our opinion, not in the opinion of a casual fan/the public.

True, and that was me explaining my opinion.

Creightons significance is his that he is primarily responsible for changing the game into a contest centered around the pitcher versus the batter rather than the batter versus the fielders. This is a titanic shift, the game could have developed very differently. The question is significance, not fame or likes or superstars. I would amend my list to include Doc Adams over Rickey, that was a great choice.

Please don't get me wrong; I appreciate Creighton.

Mark, I think you are missing the point. Anson's racism cost hundreds of great ball players the chance to compete at the major league level. That affected them financially, physically and emotionally. No matter what Anson did with a bat it can't, at least in my mind, overcome the harm he caused to the game.

It is undisputed Anson was an avowed racist, and that is shameful. But I'm not sure I see the connection between that fact and the view that Anson's racism prevented ballplayers of color from competing at the major league level. The color barrier was formally adopted after the Civil War at the 1867 National Association Baseball Convention, long before Anson became a noted figure in baseball. And it continued long after he had left the game.

At least three African-American men played in the major leagues before Anson refused to let Chicago play a team with a black player: William Edward White, whose light skin color allowed him pass as white, played one game for the Providence Grays in 1879; Moses Fleetwood Walker, an openly Black man who played for the Toledo Blue Stockings of the American Association between May 1 and September 4, 1884; and his brother, Weldy Walker, who played five games with the Toledo club between July 15 and August 6, 1884.

"Regrettably, Anson used his stature to drive minority players from the game. An 1883 exhibition game in Toledo, Ohio, between the local team and the White Stockings nearly ended before it began when Anson angrily refused to take the field against Toledo’s African-American catcher, Moses Fleetwood Walker. Faced with the loss of gate receipts, Anson relented after a loud protest, but his bellicose attitude made Anson, wittingly or not, the acknowledged leader of the segregation forces already at work in the game. Other players and managers followed Anson’s lead, and similar incidents occurred with regularity for the rest of the decade. In 1887, Anson made headlines again when he refused to play an exhibition in Newark unless the local club removed its African-American battery, catcher Walker and pitcher George Stovey, from the field. Teams and leagues began to bar minorities from participation, and by the early 1890s, no black players remained in the professional ranks."
https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/cap-anson/

Anson certainly played a role for refusing to play a game against a black player, but the some of the claims made in this thread (such as 3 and 49) are highly dubious. The 'gentleman's agreement' predated Anson with rare exception and continued without any exemptions for decades after he left baseball (and a quarter century after the man was dead). Even if one insists on treating the past as if it is the present and a vehicle in which to expect 2023 values and castigate those in whom we do not find them, Anson's responsibility for 80 years of baseball history seems to be overstated beyond what the ascertainable facts support.

I have a very hard time seeing an evidentiary based argument as to how he cracks the list for this.

Here’s who I deem most important..obviously the “2” everyone already mentioned and…


Cy Young: 511 wins, 7,356 IP, 815 games started, 749 complete games, 25 1/3 hitless innings. Few of these records may never ever be broken. MLB has an award named after him for the top pitcher in both leagues. I feel a slot of importance should go to Young.


Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson

The Philadelphia Royal Giants helped too.

I think when we are talking about most important, we have to ask "If I had to tell the tale of baseball to a stranger and could only mention three players, who would they be?"

I have no argument against the Big 2 mentioned earlier - Ruth and Jackie. Both had immense impact on the game, on and off the field. But if we look back, Jackie's debut in 1947 was 76 years ago and the game of baseball has undergone some pretty significant changes in those 76 years. To me, the biggest was the introduction of free agency in the 1970's. Curt Flood started down that path, but he only only cracked the wall, he didn't bring it down. It was Catfish Hunter, on New Year's Eve of 1974, whose contract with the A's was voided enabling him to sign with whatever team he desired. There were some more legal maneuverings after that, but Catfish was officially the first free agent. That was the first big change in the balance of power in the majors and would set the stage for where we are today with player's salaries.

So my Top 3 Most Important are:

Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson
Catfish Hunter

Yeah but did Catfish himself do anything special to achieve that status? It was Marvin Miller, no? And Flood who had staked out the territory by being willing to defy the status quo.

Ruth
Jackie


98 Sosa/McGwire- it's cliche but I think every grandma in the US knew that race was happening. It captivated the whole country and by many accounts triggered Bonds into making a decision to dive head first into PEDs. His seasons that followed were cartoon like.

Does that mean that Pete Rose will be eligible to play again?

3
 

After Ruth and Jackie Robinson, one possibility for a distant 3rd is Matty. Back in the 19th century, ballplayers were a pretty rough bunch. Mathewson was a good looking, very clean cut, college man who didn't pitch on Sundays. He made baseball seem more respectable to lots of people, and he did alot to make NYC crazy about baseball at the start of the 20th century.

I like the way you think!:)

Might as well let him and Joe Jax in the Hall, when you have sportscasters keeping you updated on the betting line the Horse has clearly left the barn.

Important. In my lifetime, Aaron's lead up to and breaking the Babe's 714 is tops. But is anyone in my lifetime making this list of 3 ?

Can't go wrong with choosing Jackie Robinson and all the importance that brings to the table.

My instinct then goes to Cobb and Ruth.

Ruth, Robinson, Mantle

Ruth, J. Robinson, Cy Young...
.

Jackie
 

Well since Leon posted a card. I see Jackie as one of the most important as well.