Brent has left PWCC
 

According to reports I have seen Fanatics informed employees via email. It wasn't that long ago he reportedly was offered an astonishing total by Fanatics to sell but turned it down. Evidently he also made terrible decisions to loan millions against cards at the very top of the market with the result that PWCC was worth one dollar at the end. A stunning fall.

So Brent walked away with nothing? :eek:

Perhaps he was paid some salary or severance, but received only his share of one dollar for the sale of the company itself.

I call BS. Zero chance he walked away with nothing. Brent would rather watch it fail and crumble to the ground than walk away with nothing. Don't believe everything you hear. Brent got paid.

Anyone have a source for the price paid, $1 or a lot?

I have no opinions one way or the other and everything is anecdotal. According to ESPN:

Despite PWCC layoffs in late April that eliminated roughly 25% of its workforce, Fanatics has announced that "all of PWCC's 125 employees" will move over, though it's not immediately clear how PWCC's platform will be utilized or integrated.

It's believed, according to sources close to the deal, that the acquisition will prove beneficial to the still-to-come Fanatics Live, a live shopping platform and commerce service for collectors. Fanatics Live, expected to launch in the second half of 2023, will focus on money-pooled case and box breaks to start.

According to Cardlines:

We don’t know the exact sum of the sale. But according to a source familiar with the deal, it was executed at a meager price. This will surprise no one since PWCC has been in serious trouble for a while now.

In April, the company fired one-quarter of its workforce, a total of 30 workers. Reportedly, none of those fired received any severance pay. That is both an indication of the ethically challenged practices of PWCC and a sign of their financially troubled position.

In an internal statement, PWCC assured their remaining employees that the move was designed to “restructure and streamline PWCC into increasingly efficient, technical, and data-driven departments.”

But many of their workers were understandably not feeling reassured. However, Fanatics’s company purchase will provide a much-needed cash infusion for PWCC.

While PWCC was in financial trouble, that doesn’t mean Rubin got to name his price. According to sources, Collectors Universe and at least one potential buyer were in the mix to purchase the vaulting and auctions company.

Indeed, Collectors Universe may have been pretty close to making a deal. Therefore, the price was probably not optimal from the perspective of Fanatics.

The true story may never be told....many side deals behind closed doors take place on the DL in this industry, that's life...the truth lies somewhere between. Either way I can say his impact on the Industry over the past 15 years has been massive.....right, wrong, or indifferent he has exited stage left for now. Many in this Hobby/Industry are akin to toenail fungus they go away, remain dormant, but always come back in some way shape or form.....stay tunned.

I agree I cannot picture Brent walking away with nothing.

For all the problems PWCC had and despite what many people thought about the company many many people were using it.

IT has a variety of values including its Data Base of customers both sellers and buyers.

What that value is and what he was paid I do not know. Hope we all find out

Wonder if all the vault users want their stuff now

I would think they are in a better position since the acquisition. Also, with the change at top, it puts a bit more legit (to me) perspective on PWCC. I haven't bid in their auctions in years but will now start to do so.
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I would think they are in a better position since the acquisition. Also, with the change at top, it puts a bit more legit (to me) perspective on PWCC. I haven't bid in their auctions in years but will now start to do so.
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Could easily see some package whereby he runs the company into the ground and then the new owners pay him a handsome no show consulting contract for a few years. Seen that a million times.

I had one direct incident with him and he was an obnoxious blowhard.

Also remember one National where he was taking a lot of heat and he was nowhere to be seen. But his wife was manning the tables. Tells you a lot about someone. Always looked to me like an overgrown weasel.

He didn’t walk
Away with nothing if fanatics took up any debts pwcc had. I have heard everything Peter posted is true. If he had let it go under he’d have lost more than selling it for a buck and having them assume all debts. It’s not the first time a deal like this has taken place in this hobby. One of the boards favorite conpanies was acquired in a similar fashion. Letting it go under would have cost him more than he could lose from everything I hear from people that know the principles and are familiar with the deal. I don’t know if it’s true for sure but it is absolutely what I have heard.

Bear in mind I am an idiot, but I would think letting people borrow money against baseball cards might not have been the smartest move that they pulled off.

Sounds just like the kind of dude Id want holding my $350,000 “asset” in his personal vault. Yep.

Funny, very few people have actually admitting using the vault. Odd.

Whatever the case, Brent is still sitting pretty. And don't worry, he will pop up elsewhere. They always do.

One interesting coincidence for me and this in no way shape or form involves Leon:

The Monday it was announced that PWCC was sold I no longer was prompted to use a sign in screen and enter my password for Net54.

Now, on a separate idea. I just hope that Brent Huigens and Bill Mastro never get together on a behind the scenes running of collecting.

Like Whack-a-mole

Can only imagine that Fantastics valued PWCc's 'good will' at zero. Wonder why?

It's funny, as many issues as I had with him, and of course he knew it, our interactions were always pleasant.

I think it's mostly modern guys.

I was at that National and remember it well. Brent was in hiding for most of the show, while Betsy was thrown to the wolves. It was basically Betsy and a 300 lb. security gorilla manning the booth.

It was a very busy National, but the PWCC booth was almost abandoned, with the only visitors being people who wanted up-close and personal views of some highly graded altered cards in PSA holders. People were closely scrutinizing all the 8s, 9s and 10s - all offering their own theories of how and where the alterations appeared most evident.

It was truly a disgrace, but I suppose most collectors have short memories (provided the number on the flip suits them).

So we have an anonymous ‘source close to the deal’ credited as saying it was a “meager price”. Nothing for $1.

Brett fanboys having no source at all, they just can’t imagine their favorite fraudster losing.

Good stuff.

I have a couple of corroborating anonymous on the $1 but I know that doesn't persuade anyone. Of course if it includes debt forgiveness it's really semantics, you could say it's $1 plus the debt.

Logistics. They bought an existing vault with staff and inventory already in hand. No need to reinvent the wheel and no need to reacquire the customers. When you compare the outlay needed to build, establish and staff a new facility, picking up PWCC was probably a cheaper means of getting a vault. It's the T. Boone Pickens theory of oil exploration: why spend $50 a barrel drilling for oil when you can buy the stock of a company with proven reserves at the equivalent of $35 a barrel?

To the skeptics, details on deals like these are never disclosed but typically in this hobby when some details start to circulate they are closer to the truth than fiction. So while ya might want concrete info, it does not mean it did not go down as suggested.

Everyone now knows the company was in trouble over lending issues and possibly or seemingly close to insolvency. The $1 paid is likely what was paid with some incentives to Brent.

That Brent is gone when just 3 months ago he gave this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMdXQNQkbpc interview that indicated a great deal of passion and a vision for his company, an exit would be the last thing I would think he was wanting. Think the shit hit the fan over there.

The irony of this interview is that early on he talks about his departure from Engineering to build PWCC and his inspiration was seeing all these PhD's he was surrounded by run companies into the ground. What a difference 3 months makes...

You hit it on the head.

If he sold it for dollar but had all liabilities assumed, he honestly made out like a bandit. The outstanding loan catalog can easily be imagined to be in the realm of 8 to 9 figures at the speed they were moving. The original financing approved was for 175 million. :eek: Who knows the default percentage both current and future of that idea with current devaluation of collateral. If the devalued assets are the written collateral, it would completely make sense to walk from those debts.

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/n...it-175-million

If they had moved to any bankruptcy, additional lawsuits to protect personal property outside the business LLC from creditors would have cost a ton to litigate...win or lose. The financing aspect would not include the additional civil possibilities for any other scandal if it should surface either.

Thinking he got a big payday seems illogical. Thinking he received an incredible super-sized life preserver would be logical and one hell of a win.

With Brent's quick departure, I don't see the company name PWCC lasting much beyond Labor Day.

Time to move on! not surprised by the move, another year with hobby stories about PWCC - maybe Fanatics will change the name

Happy collecting everyone!

Jimmy

I would have thought they would have changed the name by today, but we shall see.

I wonder if the new ownership and shedding of Brent will allow the company to re-enter the Ebay world.

Their excuse for getting rid of them was kinda weak. Do you think Probstein can prevent their consignors from bidding on their own items? How about other sellers?

The ebay claim was that persons affiliated with PWCC were doing the shill bidding.

If they change their name & became a new company, their shouldn't be any problem re-joining ebay

Exactly; Brent wins, by not losing.

Fanatics takes over PWCC's debt, he saves what he already has.

Steve

Mutual and no other details? Oh ok. I would say it was anything but amicable but I could be wrong.

Basically, Fanatics got all of the info they need from him and then cut him loose. Happens all the time in business mergers. Show me the ropes and clear out your office please...

I had some tobacco cards in there for awhile but decided against having anything in there earlier this year. Now if I happen to win anything in their auction, they're not in the vault for very long at all.

I do like the idea of a vault and all of its benefits. You just have to be sure you trust the vaultmaster and in the PWCC case, well.....I emptied my vault..haha!

I am not at all clear on the debt situation, but unless the debt was literally forgiven-- a tax event--he likely has co-liability, whether primary or secondary. I suppose the debt could have been paid off as part of the transaction, in which case he basically did get paid. Otherwise, I assume that he has indemnification or reimbursement rights in the event Fanatics defaults on the debt, but that still leaves him on the hook while the debt remains owing; i.e. I doubt he was completely released. I also assume that he signed personal guaranties on these debts, or else he has no exposure absent fraud or similar skullduggery.

Finally, I am uncertain what what was meant in the original post. Loaning money against undersecured assets (overvalued cards) does not create debt for Brent-- it just adversely impairs collectability for him. So long as his borrowers are current on repayment and don't default, there is nothing to see, even if he used those loans as collateral to get his own, provided there is no provision that allows his lender a right to call its loan due upon the occurrence of certain events.

This is one of those days where I'm just a step or so behind on my thinking. Hopefully others can make it simpler for me.

Many of them walked away from their loans, is my understanding. That created (bad) debt because of the money lent not being repaid .
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Likely he went from an extremely wealthy dude to a regular wealthy dude. There are worse fates in life.

Correct...and now they held cards whose values dropped lower than what the money loaned out was.

So Brent took all the money they had and called it a loan or dispersement (depending on how many owners they had) which basically left just the tax to pay on it. I’m sure he was making an attempt to pay back the company 1.5 percent a year to keep it legal, based on his lawyer advice. In many ways it’s a lot better than paying yourself a big Salary. Maybe for Brents next adventure he can do something with Bill Mastro and conquer a different industry. What ever happened to the FBI investigation to?

Sounds like what a lot of commercial lenders are experiencing in office buildings. They prefer to carry the non-performing loans on their books rather than realize the losses. Brent probably did not have that option.

The loans were ultimately made to customers with cards in the vault. The way asset based lending works, there is a steep haircut relative to the card price. If a customer had $100k market value of cards in the vault, they were likely only able to borrow $60k, maybe less. It’s unclear to me what exposure PWCC had as a firm. The hedge fund provides the capital for PWCC to tap for lending. If the borrower defaults, PWCC simply sells the cards in possession and pays back the hedge fund. In all likelihood , the hedge fund is the direct counterparty to the customer and PWCC simply stands in the middle and collects a fee with no risk. The beauty is that PWCC holds the assets, so the only risk to the hedge fund is that the price falls below the haircut value.

I’d be really surprised if it was close to 60%. Hell, once the dust settles on an AH consignment, a seller is generally lucky to see 2/3 of FMV.

And yet everyone talking about this seems to agree PWCC had huge debt and was taken out by Fanatics at a token price. What else could account for that debt if PWCC had no risk in thesa nonperforming loans?

Maybe so. But in this case it’s PWCC selling through their own channel so not sure they wouldn’t just sell the card with no vig. I don’t know much about the details other than what is on the internet, but I do know that lenders barely take any risk outside of a disaster scenario so I think my originally description is close to accurate/.

Looking at the timeline, my guess is that PWCC’s revenue dropped substantially once they left the EBay platform in 2021. The lending business came a year later and was likely a creative attempt to generate revenue and save the business (as they still had the vault) the market didn’t cooperate - No one was flipping cards anymore, which would have been only people demanding loans. It was actually a brilliant idea, but the market dried up.

See my next comment below. Post eBay I am guessing the revenue dried up and they were on their way out of business. That’s good enough for a token price.
Not sure I get why there would be a huge debt ? Why would loans be non performing with a huge haircut? If you read the public articles, there is a hedge fund financing all this . They are asset based lenders , they lend against collateral- machines , cars, paintings , baseball cards. they don’t take risk, its all about the haircut

That's why I am thinking a rational hedge fund did not make these loans, Brent did or at least took on some significant risk and did not do proper valuations. We need to find someone who borrowed and see what the arrangement was.

Perhaps they valued the cards for what they sold at when PWCC was shilling to reach a fake end result, not what they could honestly sell them for when they needed to do so.

Card Needed Here. And popcorn ?
 

Lots of the biggest modern cards fell like stones last year, whether it was the end of a frenzy, steroids, injuries or just poor performance. The 1986 Fleer MJ RC PSA 10 was a $700K card for a minute 2+ years ago and has settled back down to a pre-pandemic sub $200K range. If you loan 50% on a card and the card drops 70%+, you are at a loss, especially if you use either recourse financing or entered into specific debt covenants to get the cash to lend out, if your lending decisions were injudicious, and if you offered non-recourse loans to the card owners. My guess is that some combo of those factors was in play. PWCC may not have been insolvent but it could easily have run afoul of loan covenants that would allow the lenders to take control and force a sale. Maybe don't get greedy and stay in your lane, and definitely don't bet your company on a fickle market.

https://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_men0r5EREN1rq0hnm.gif

PWCC wouldn't be the first lender to get killed by collateral declining in value. Look at the commercial real estate market. Many banks are playing 'pretend and extend' for zombie commercial real estate loans right now; they know the values of their collateral have tanked. Office building owners in SF and NY and other major cities where remote working has taken root are handing keys to lenders and walking away from hundreds of millions in investments. I'm involved with one such scenario right now where my clients are waiting to see if the borrower defaults in October when the next installment payment comes due.

Makes sense. I read more about this - geez I did not realize modern fell THAT much. And I understand some borrowers just walked away from the loan and cards lol. Seems like really low quality clientele. Curious if that’s considered defaulting from a personal credit standpoint

Let’s not forget Charles Keating and the Lincoln Savings and Loan scheme. Their assets included old surplus of military equipment from the 60s and 70s. I lost half my early child hood savings with that scumbag.

I still can’t quite get over how far and fast he fell. Not quite tSam Bankman – Fried, but up there.

Hubris Peter, lots of folks in business confuse making decisions based on their ego Instead of sound business practice, slippery slope indeed and the more you decide for your ego and less for practical business the harder the consequences. Plus he's shown he lacks moral character by throwing his wife to the wolves at the National while hiding in the corner.

I would say the card doctors, he knowingly dealt with, for decades are more indicative of his character then the single show with Betsy. He had a lot of things going for him, and in fairness was something of a visionary, but, as you say, his hubris, and in my opinion, lack of a moral compass, ultimately did not serve him well in the hobby.

I still remember meeting Brent to pick up my winnings when PWCC was still just a couple of small offices in Oakland. He should have just cleaned up the shilling and bad behavior and stuck w/ ebay. Here is one card that I won from PWCC a few years ago.

Nice card and one saying comes to mind with Brent. Pigs get fat and Hoggs get slaughtered.

Well, there's no trimming on that one, Gary. Also, a very nice and very underappreciated Ruth card. Tough set. Another one:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...Unc%20Ruth.jpg

Mutual and Amicable don't have to go together.

Like
___ You!
Yeah, well ___ you too!

Mutual but hardly amicable.

Or
You didn't do this right!
Well it is working properly, but every shop has a slightly different way of doing things. Maybe our methods just aren't a good fit for you? There's another shop just up the road that you could try that might be a better fit.
Oh, Ok then, I'll go there.

Amicable, but not exactly Mutual. (He was a jerk, I sent him to our competition, who was sloppy and charged at least 3x as much.) And he was happy enough about it to recommend us?! And came back about 6 months later with a much better outlook on things. )

That was my point or at least the point I was trying to make.

It's typical for an organization to soft-pedal the termination of an executive. I place no stock in what Fanatics said about it.

How soon until Fanatics rebrands the business?

<6 months
The name is a liability not an asset.

I think within a month, if not tomorrow.

And how long until Brent resurfaces in the hobby?

Any hot takes on potential new names? Do they sort of include a bit of the prewar name in the new entity name? Or just something completely unrelated?

That depends on how long it takes for him to get over turning down 350 million and then getting booted out of his own business. I cannot see Brent working for anyone after building PWCC. If someone can set aside the fact that he is as unethical as they come, his creativity, work ethic and ingenious ideas (assuming they were his) would be an asset to many companies but what a liability.

Would have to be that company who does not disclose who their key employees are.

Well we know this can’t be so, Brett’s fanboys have informed us he couldn’t possibly lose because he’s Brett. He always comes out on top no matter what.

Net54 is full of many geniuses, Greg. 8 months ago I got a 2nd on my house, liquidated my retirement accounts and bought cards with the proceeds. I got the advice from a few guys here.

I assume the Brian B who this member is posting about is the former FBI agent?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=8077

If so that is certainly a twist. Lemme see how this works...the agent who was conducting a multi year long investigation into PWCC leaves the bureau and ends up working at/for PWCC? And this info gets leaked now, a few days after we hear that Brent left PWCC?

I am refraining from commenting until I make sure the Brian B he refers to is the former FBI agent.

It would be even more ironic if Brent had stayed at Fanatics. Former target of your criminal investigation now your coworker.

The entire thing is just...uncomfortable. Hey this is a great hobby but you must keep your eyes trained just on your cards.

I am happy to report the FBI is still knee-deep in the hobby. I spoke with 3 Special Agents that are here and they seem highly interested in the hobby. I wish there were 50 of them investigating (no, that doesn't make sense, just sayin').
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