What is the one thing that has changed most since you started collecting?
 

I saw this question on another forum and wanted to get Net54 take on this topic. What is the one thing that has changed the most since you started collecting?

I have collected cards for over 35 years so I thought long and hard about this topic. For me, its information, specifically card pricing tools. I remember the old days of book value and these new tools have helped both collectors and dealers get a more accurate idea of value.

What say you?

I think my brother and I were the last two kids to play with their cards. We knocked down the leaner, flipped, covered etc. on top of that we invented games based on statistics and wrote notes on the cards. That stopped around 1985 for us when I saw an issue of Baseball Card Magazine and found out that a Wade Boggs rookie was worth $13. We had dozens of them, we were rich! Until we read about something called "condition"

Information for sure is at the top of my list...to be different i'll say "availability" or access to cards has changed the most. Back in the late 80's/early 90's you'd only see the cards that were right in front of you. No internet...no auction infrastructure like we have now. The first time I saw a tolstoi backed t206 I paid up big time because I had already had a Drum back and I thought tolstoi were impossible to find!!!!

I think the scope of collecting has expanded.

First it used to all about Baseball and specifically cards. Now it seems all sports have been on an update with NBA the hottest and then NFL, and even Soccer and hockey has really picked up.

Second. Fringe collections are becoming more main stream. Postcards became Cards, different items like Pictures becoming hotter commodities and now Pins seams to be on the upswing. Even Pokemon Cards, Hugi Go Cards etc are becoming mainstream collectables.

Third. Vintage is steady but Modern is really exploding but it has major swings in prices and focus while the market figures it out

Fourth. Alot of new money is coming in the collectible realm,

The prices paid for T206 cards. I never could have imagined that THE most common pre 1930’s set in existence would sell for multiple times the same player’s cards in sets exponentially rarer. I get why people like it but I have always valued true rarity over everything else.

I get the back rarities and understand the price on those more than a Common back T206 card.

Obviously the prices have changed. Used to be a 1984 Topps Don Mattingly was worth as much as a T206 Hall of Famer in similar condition.

Two other things that really stand out are how much easier it is to find almost any card you're looking for now (thanks to the scope of the internet) and how much the hobby cares about centering. It never occurred to me until the 21st century that being off-center would impact the price of a card; and if it had, I would have presumed that very off-center cards would sell for a bit of a premium (as they do for T206s).

People buying because they are afraid prices will "go up".

The whole Gambling Aspect tied to selling

Breaks...Raffles.. from Cases Down.. Half Cases, Boxes, Packs, Modern and Vintage, Teams, Players..and Facebook Raffles on graded and raw cards sometimes as much as hundreds of dollars a chance.


Sellers have many many more ways and platforms for moving cards now as compared to 20 plus years ago.

It's interesting to watch.

Got my first T206 in 1973

Biggest change is the move away from collecting to investing in cards.

The demographics have also changed. Used to be the main collectors were prepubescent kids and middle-aged guys. Now I think it's largely young men collecting modern cards and elderly men collecting vintage cards.

How I find cards. Some of the 1966 and 1967 high numbers took months and many trips to shops and shows to find. Now they are super easy to find.

I was collecting before autograph cards started to be inserted into packs (early 80s), but I can't believe we're at the point where having 5-10+ different colored borders with a number stamped on them is often worth more than an autographed card.

Make something a red border and stamp 1/5 on it, that's generally more valuable by a huge amount than an autographed card (unless it's also got a rare border and a stamp).

I'm not a "rainbow chaser" but I don't got a problem with them. I am a bit shocked at how much people will spend on a 1/5 - 1/10 - etc that's just a border color change and a stamped number.

The biggest change for me and my collecting happened many years ago, when I was about 10 years old in the mid-1970's. The advent of the Rookie Card craze. When I was a young kid, nobody cared about rookie cards. In fact, we were disappointed when we pulled them as we would have much rather pulled the stars - Reggie, Ryan, Seaver, Bench, Pete Rose, etc.

I would have to echo "information" and up to date pricing knowledge. With the growth of sites like Ebay, what I used to think was rare suddenly showed up in quantity. Plus, the sites that quote the latest sales data (not asking price) gives you a realistic idea of what you should be paying for items in various grades.

Ebay. My local card shop used to have everything I needed. Once I went away to college and lived in a town where there was no card shop I was forced to turn to ebay in 2004. Wow. What a world. I didn't collect a lot in college because I had no place to put them. But I sure wish I did! 2004 had amazing deals on cards that you just can't find today.

The decline in trading cards with your pals. When I was a kid, the only ways to get cards you wanted was to trade with your gang or, if your meagre allowance permitted, buy another pack and hope for the best.

Sets v. Singles

I have a theory as to why. The earlier generation of baseball card collectors were mostly the older baby-boomers and they were taught by their parents (WWII vets and Depression kids) to finish things and that the satisfaction was in the work of completing the task. For generations the finishing of a set was the key. When I grew up in the 1980's I remember having this conversation with my father about why one card was worth more (84 Topps Mattingly) when it was just as common as the other cards. He could not get it no matter how much we talked it over. He was born in 1934 and it did not make sense and never would.

Almost nobody completes sets anymore and I think the trend will continue to get worse as older collectors pass away.

100%% Agree Set Builders are a thing of the past especially when it comes to the younger generations who seems to only be interested in making profits off cards, vintage or modern. I get asked over and over again are you selling any of your Mantles, Ruth's or Jackies...

Biggest Change
 

I've been collecting for 60+ years and I agree with Prewar Cards statement. We built sets when I was young and those high numbers in the 60's were tough. I sold most of my sets to buy my first house. ( I kept my Post Cereal and Jello cards) As I started to get back into collecting I concentrated on Detroit sports teams. The thing I dislike is trying to build a set NOW. I tried a 2012 Heritage set, Too many cards, too many SP. I tried a 2012 Gypsy Queen set.....Same result. The fact that the availability of cards is great as compared to when I was a kid is a positive. It's just that there are SO MANY cards it's difficult to decide what to pursue.

The biggest change in many ways has been the money.

Hindsight is 20/20, but man I should have bought differently.

Collecting trends have changed back and forth, I think at some point set collecting will come back. If only because it will be impressive having a complete 600 or 700+ card set when commons in nice condition are $20 each.

Or, it will go the opposite way, and commons will become essentially worthless.

To me the PSA Registry and Pop Report have had the biggest and longest lasting impact on the hobby and business...total game changer. It put commons on the map and brought more money into the hobby.

Grading of Cards, numbered cards and ebay. As a kid , I could only get cards from the local party store until they ran out and then you waited for next year.

The 2 things I have to say that have changed the most are:

1) When I started collecting in the mid 70s, Topps was the only card in business and they issued 1 set per year. No inserts, no parallel brands, etc.

2) The internet greatly changed the marketplace. I'd venture to say that I would have never SEEN 70% of the cards in my collection, much less have a chance to own them.

Exponential increases in both Supply (digital mechanisms to bring cards to market) and Demand (increased awareness from digital news and marketing, and proliferation from pandemic). Thus skyrocketed prices.

So true. And then later, I found myself collecting nothing but rookie cards. Boy how times change.

How the "valuation" of cards has completely changed...

511. Evolutionary Cardwinism
The incremental change in valuation from, say, a Hank Aaron card being worth, “My friend’ll give me three Mets for it! Dyn-o-mite!!!” when you were a kid, to putting it under a blacklight to root out any unseen flaws, using calipers to measure centering, and so on, to formulate a specific monetary dollar value for it today.

The internet, Slabs & Card Registries!
 

The creation of grading card companies and their slabs and their associated card registries changed everything...but not for the better. The internet and eBay especially has made access to cards and memorabilia easier to find.

Patrick

The number of buttheads that are trying to screw the collecting public. 100X increase in population of these dirt bags.

Ok - a couple of things:

INTERNET - You can find anything you want on the internet - doesn't mean that T206 Wags is real.

TPGs - Without them, some collections may be worth 100X less than they are today.

I have been collecting on and off since the early 1980s. So much has changed. Yet in so many ways things are the same.

The two largest changes I have seen is (1) card grading and authentication / TPGs, and (2) the internet, which has fundamentally changed how we buy cards, exchange information, interact with other hobbyists, etc. Without the internet, I would know at least 50 less people, many of of whom I consider legitimate friends.

At the same time, much has stayed the same. Cards have value, rookies are most desirable, and people still collect, trade, and sell cards. I also remember when there was Topps, Donruss, and Fleer and where 1984 Donruss was preferred, but 1985 Topps was preferred, and 1987 Fleer was preferred (1986 just sucked all around). Then there was Sortflicks, and Bowman, and Upperdeck - just like today with so many (too many) options. In 1983, we bought boxes looking for Gwynn, Boggs, and Sandbergs, and we threw away all the commons, and then in 1985 We would buy boxes looking for the Gooden, Clemens, Puckett, McGuire, etc. The only difference is we did not call these “hits”. At card shows, the modern totally outweighed the old old stuff in volume, by miles, as it does today.

It’s the same hobby, just different

#1 change is Third Party Graders (TPGs).

For me it is by far the part I made bold. A card that in the 80s that took months to track down you can now have your choice of 100s of that card in seconds. The other stuff is amazing but to me it doesn't even come close to the availability of cards now to back then.

With the available funds, anyone can find and purchase anything they want. Not that easy back in the good 'Ol days..

Grading
It has taken alot of the fun and innocence of the hobby away for me

I'm in with the crowd that says it's the explosion of accessibility and information. Without even knowing that something exists, how would I even know to look for the things I think are the most interesting? (I'll leave it to the practicing economists to talk about how information is integral to an increasingly efficient market.)

3PGs are nothing next to this. I like the encasement aspect, and it is somewhat nice to have a bit more level field as far as condition assessments when exchanging. Still, buy the card, not the holder.

I can relate to most all of the comments above, but I'd say #1 for me is the advent of the TPGs, specifically the non-linear price differences for high (8, 9, 10) grade cards. Paying 10X (or more) for one card over another because of some small issue that cannot be seen with the naked eye has priced me out of owning high grade vintage cards. It has made that end of the market very competitive.

TPG “poor1” now covers a very large gamut of grades ,
In the early 80s a lot of vintage cards were accepted as vg-ex based on eye appeal but now fall into the poor category

Access. When I started as a kid in the mid seventies there was no infrastructure to the hobby. You pounded the pavement at antique stores and junk stores to find cards and when you did find a honey hole you guarded the information like a state secret. I had one place sold cards twelve for a buck. I used to get twelve cards and flip them at school for $0.25 and up per card then reinvest my proceeds and do it again the next week.

Lots of great responses here.

Follow up question…. What is one card collecting thing that will change in the next 10-15 years?

People will finally learn/comprehend that eBay sucks (especially for sellers), and it will die as a venue/exchange for buying and selling cards. It’s a shame bc eBay was once, hands down, the best market place for cards.

Prices

It’s gotten significantly harder to collect. I started as a 10 year spending $80 to $100 at a time and being able to buy a huge range of post war star cards and big time pre war. I bought my Matty white cap for $70. Even as late as graduate school I was still buying Ruth and Gehrig for $500. Now I have to sell to buy anything.

Someone overtakes PSA as the leader in grading. I hope it’s SGC.

Every time I add a $50 common to my t206 set , I know I am throwing it away

I've been collecting since the early 2000s.

When I started, the Hobby had slowed down, or so I was told from many collectors and dealers, when I first started going to card shows with my father. It felt a little more insular, which I don't think was a bad thing. Card collecting was more niche really.

The Hobby is much more exposed now, for better and worse. More people are involved, more money is being thrown around. On one hand, I'm glad that there is so much renewed interest in cardboard, but on the other, I hate the gambling aspect that has seemed to taken over everything now. Breaker culture, the livestream opening of new card products, I don't think it's good for the youth that is trying to get involved in the hobby.

My suspicion is that we are on the road to developing a very stratified, two-tier, (or more) collecting system where an entire piece of the hobby infrastructure caters exclusively to the hobby upper class and has no meaning to the rest of the collectors, and an entirely different segment caters to everyone else. We already see the start of this stratification in a variety of ways:

--Walk a show and see how readily the groups of collectors self-differentiate by class. Not many vintage collectors hanging around the breaking pavilion, and very few card bros are unloading their Zion cases at mom and pop tables of vintage cards.

--The proliferation of vaults. No true collector in the classical sense would give a s*** about a vault; what's the point in owning a card you can't even hold in your hand? An investor, on the other hand, would rather not risk the loss of transporting or bear the cost of insurance on a valuable asset.

--I don’t think it is any accident that the rise of organized investment-collecting catering to the hobby 1% and modern speculators has resulted in a two-tiered auction system where there are expensive catalog auctions and internet only $10 starting point auctions. Now I also happen to think that much of the monthly auction business is stuff that used to go to eBay instead and represents a shift in sale venue rather than an expansion of material per se. The way eBay's fees have gone up (owing to the quirks of eBay's system, the spread between eBay and a typical BP is around 5.5%), and the hostility towards sellers, make the monthlies quite attractive. Do I consign a $300 card to a monthly at 20% or do I sell it via eBay at 14.5% and be responsible for shipping and potential losses? It is becoming a closer question. But the salient point for our analysis is that there is a secondary tier of auctions that are quite popular with less well-heeled collectors.

-- Walk the floor at the National now as compared to a decade ago and it is obvious that the total number of retail card dealer tables at the National has declined markedly, while the total floor area devoted to auctioneers, service providers, corporate booths, card breaks and manufactured memorabilia (e.g., autographs and related paraphernalia) has filled in the gap. I think we are in for more of this, perhaps even to the point where the vintage card dealer is no longer the backbone of the National, as is the case with Comicon’s show floor versus all of the other activities.

In sum, the tectonic shift is already under way. What we make of it depends on us. The move to vertically integrate in a way that most collectors do not like or value leaves an opening for businesses to cater to the mass of collectors, and I suspect that is one reason why local shows and modestly priced auctions are thriving while a venture like Collectable, which sought to securitize cards and create a card stock market that required mass participation, fell on its face. The clientele who likes the financialization of card collecting can buy the big cards directly rather than trading theoretical interests in them and ceding control over the asset and its sale to the promoter, and the group that cannot afford them doesn’t want to screw around with a share of a card they never actually touch and cannot control.

Of course, this is all just spitballing: if I knew the future I would be buying and selling, not screeding on a chat board :D

Agree, grading prices, and internet.

Well said Adam, I agree +1

Digital cards. I just don't get it.

Agreed. Having never finished the 1972 Topps set, I was hellbent on completing the 1981 set. The thrill of opening packs and visiting card stores with my needs list. The satisfaction of finding the last few commons to complete the set. The frustration of spending close to $100 to complete the set and then attending my first show at the VFW in Dale City, VA and seeing a complete collated set for $20 at a dealers table. After that, I just purchased factory sets. The craziness of the 90's and my shift from new cards to vintage cards, autographs and memorabilia. Attending the Tuff-Stuff shows and monthly Tyson Corner shows. Dreaming of finally attending the National. Beckett's monthly magazine. Watching the entire market collapse only to rise again.

Sites like this one, with an array of hobby niches and knowledgeable collectors who willingly share and educate.

The internet. With the internet, you had the ability to research any set, without asking anyone any questions. If you searched and read enough, you would find just about everything you needed to know. I'm living proof. In 2008, I knew just about nothing about the T206 set. Online research, along with afterwards using my own theroy's of print groups and sheet layout's, turned me into one of the go to experts. I'm not as involved as I used to be, but the internet changed my collecting habits. It also made searching and purchasing just about any card, a reality. You just needed the money.

I agree, the internet. I remember in the old days, buying cards and being excited to find out what they looked like. For instance, I remember getting a package of 1963-1966 Twins from George Husby and seeing many of them for the first time. The 1963 Zoilo and Bernie Allen cards were great, but the 1965 Mudcat Grant and Mel Nelson were disappointments.

Now that fun is gone, as I can easily find out what any card known to exist looks like, because of the internet.

I started my second collecting life in the late 1980s. The standardization of grading through the advent of TOG is certainly a big thing, but since I rarely grade my cards that is not a major item for me. For me the major differences are that:

1. Rare 19th century material has virtually disappeared. It used to be that you could walk the aisles of the National, or any big show for that matter, and see all kinds of rare 19th century pieces. Now you see some common Old Judges if you are lucky and very little more.
2. Virtually all good material goes to auction. Dealers used to keep inventories of scarce cards and that was where you went to find them. Now, what dealers there are have very little that is interesting to an advanced collector.
3. eBay used to have auctions and it was possible to find nice cards on the site. Now Ebay is predominantly BIN offerings at ridiculous prices.

Since I first started collecting many years ago, the thing that has changed the most for me is my age.

Otherwise, I would say the internet. I think it truly multiplied the avenues of obtaining cards, changed how dealers and auction houses do business, and it opened up a whoop-ass can of information and research possibilities, leading to a board like this where we can more readily share our passion for our little corner of the hobby.

Brian

Yeah, what Brian wrote. Nice summary.

Since back in the day when I used to ride my bike down to Safeway to buy a few packs and play video games during my misspent youth, the list of things that has changed is pretty long.

But if you want to stick to a short list, then I’ll go with the fact that I no longer ride a bike, I no longer get my cards in packs from Safeway, and I have more than a few bucks a month of disposable income to fritter away on luxuries like cardboard. That last one might be the biggest change.

Another vote for the internet. Once it took hold, the hobby which had been one of local card shops shows and mail order changed rapidly and radically.

A lot of great responses
Here's something more for the pile
VAULTS!
I know why they are available, but it doesn't sit right, buying a card you covet
& you never get to have it in your hands

For me, I'd say access to cards in general. When I started collecting, I was about 8-9 years old and besides packs at the local grocer that i could bike to myself, I was dependent on my parents to drive me somewhere or help me order through the mail. I had access to the newest cards in packs myself and that was it.

I don't just mean driving to a store though, obviously. There weren't any card shops or shows I was even aware of within a reasonable driving distance from me. I would get to stop by Pacific Trading Cards every so often when we'd visit my sister. I would also sometimes get to go to the Pike Place Market and there were a few shops in there or close by. That was my experience, along with TCMA and Renata Galasso catalogs.

Ebay and the internet opened up the world and changed my collecting and by that time, I was also an adult and even had a little extra spending money. Of course by that time, the types of cards available had also exploded. Inserts, autographs, memorabilia, etc.

eBay sucks in many ways. But what’s the alternative? There is none. Seen people post alternative venues in the past and when I go there there is like 147 cards for sale.

I’d say the proliferation of auctions. Now it’s non stop. Used to be a huge event when big auctions were coming. Now it’s mostly a yawn. Massive auctions, one after another. Monthly. Weekly. Pop up. Missed that green Cobb? Don’t sweat it …
…. There will be a few hundred more coming. Heritage does massive auctions no even comments on. Even the REA cheering section seems to be down to it’s hard core members.
The non stop dumping of collections should tell you something about the demographics of the hobby and where it’s heading.

I don’t flip cards anymore or store them in a shoebox.

Your second post (and Adam’s earlier post), answers the question - auction houses. The relative savings that eBay provides a seller no longer outweighs the risk, work, and poor treatment that EBay affords sellers today. I would rather give up that extra 5% and know that my job ends the minute I send my package to the AH (using their account and insurance). And, I think this is exactly why there are so many auctions today - they are absorbing all of the sellers that eBay has lost.

If I had a nickel for every consignor who came to me complaining about Ebay I'd have a buck or two. Their seller unfriendly policies absolutely drive people to us.

Agree that all of the best pieces of my collection (minus 3) have come from ebay. Last year I found a 1990 KGJ Desert Shield at my LCS. That is the first vintage card I can remember buying locally in years.

What I most agree with Adam about is the vertical integration that we are seeing with Fanatics. It is going to bring about a tectonic shift into our hobby that will be unfathomable. Us vintage collectors will be looking at modern collecting and collectors and feel even more disconnected from them than ever.

I think Adams comment is insightful; and I agree "tiered levels of collecting" is already underway. But I think the stratification has existed for a decade or longer. I always thought I was too poor for auction houses when big ones would come along - like the Halper collection. Even now, I can realistically only get 1 or 2 nicer items per year ($1500 or less), which isn't enough to compete in auctions. I'm certain however that other collectors look at me and think I'm a big dog. Maybe I'm middle class? I choose to buy lesser HOF players because I feel I can compete and purchase items for them. I recently got a Barry Larkin GU Bat from 1990 because I sold items to pay for it. There is no way in Hades I could buy a comparable Babe Ruth bat from 1927 even if I sold every collectible I own. And think of the collectors on this board that routinely state they are looking for a "collector grade" version of a card. Even on this board we know who the Big Dogs are. But we small pups enjoy being here and when someone buys the T206 big three in less than a week (like occurred last year...or two years ago?) we yippy dogs feel fortunate enough to be able to say congrats and we are excited for the buyer....and I believe the feelings are true.

Here's another example: Babe Ruth has almost become unattainable to the lower end collector. In 2019, the entry level Ruth cards were Sanella, Churchmans, Butterfinger, Quaker Oats, and some strip cards. Look at those prices now! Older collectors still look at those cards and think...that much for Quaker Oats? Newer collectors don't know a difference. Think of all the posts, at least once per month, that ask "I have $$$, what should I buy?" That's stratification.


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folks at shows filming themselves interviewing themselves like their movie stars. YouTube channels telling you what to buy or and what not to buy . people taking huge and scary losses on the new stuff. miss going to the East Coast national Gloria show and just having a nice day.thx

One thing that has changed for me is
 

when I started buying seriously on eBay, I could search for "Baseball" and get a few hundred hits a day. Easy to work through. Today, one puts in a single player; say "Pete Rose" and the hit list has to be truncated.

I do not wish to return to the old days, for the continuing upsurge in prices has driven many desirable items onto the market. For example, Old Judge N172s and N173s of Sam Thompson were priced at five to ten dollars, but you could not find them, even at Bob and Paul Gallagher's booth at the old Astor House Card Show in New York. Today I'm lucky to find an example priced in mid four figures, but they are available.

Maybe you are right. Too many maniacs for me to deal with. And when work is busy I have no time to deal with a lot of stupid question, special shipping instructions, sending payment reminders, etc. Much easier to send to an AH. Though I do like selling smaller items myself occasionally.

I agree with, or at least don't disagree with, most of the previous posts, but in my mind most, if not all, of the things mentioned are a part of one over all encompassing change to 'the hobby' :

Very few of us collect for purely the FUN of it anymore.

This. Card discourse used to be mostly about cards, now it is mostly about profit margins. Compare money thread and pumper thread replies to research thread replies - almost nobody really cares about the cards themselves anymore. Most of the big changes are the result of this shift in approach.

A lot of us spend way more for cards and photos, etc. that we would ever have imagined. It's nice at least to sell a few items once in a while at a profit to offset the costs that could have been deployed elsewhere. Unless you are insanely wealthy or don't really care about condition or rarity, it's hard not to have some interest in the economic side of things.

If you don't watch out, Ed is going to Kargerize all your heads.

Attachment 574141

Brian (I suggest more fun, and less doughy residue)

I'm happy being one of the "very few of us."

I'm under the very few of us collector category. Outside of shill bidding, it's a ball.

If you are truly happy, no need to spend any time worrying about what other people are doing.
There are all sorts of collectors. Jay Leno loves cars. So does my brother in law. One has dozens of rare cars. One has a Camaro he has been working on for years. Both are car collectors. But very different types of collectors. To each his own. I would never say Jay Leno is less of a true collector because he spends a fortune of cars.

What doesn’t seem to have changed, at least on this forum, is the proliferation of “collectors” who seem to hate everyone and everything about collecting. And they come to a collecting site to tell everyone else all about it.

I'd say over the next 10-15 years there won't be any changes with nearly as large an impact as the spread of internet access and TPGs have had. If I had to predict something though, I'd say there will be more of a flattening of interest across different sports as in 15 years most sports card collectors will be outside of the U.S.

This, ironically, may be exactly what saves the interest in baseball (o beisbol) cards per se when the first generation of Topps collectors are no longer part of the hobby.

Anyway, stock up on those vintage field hockey and badminton cards while you can still afford them.

The One Thing That Changed the Most Since I Started Collecting
 

The Beatles broke up. Ba dum bum.

You could go to any collecting community and hear the same basic gripes. Somewhere right now on the Internet some collector of mid 1930s German S&M porn is bitching about the influx of new collectors who are in the hobby for all the wrong reasons and are ruining it. Seems to be a universal part of the collecting experience for some reason. It's important to some people to establish that their motives are the only pure and righteous motives for collecting. Kind of silly.

+1. We rarely talked so much about the money aspect 20+ yrs ago. I think the new age of flippers, big private equity buying into the hobby, and investors in the hobby have all changed it. And it's mostly for the worse for me...
.

What is the internet for if not complaining, virtue signaling, and porn?