SGG at the National - Onsite Grading?
 

Any news if SGC will do onsite grading at the National this year? I haven't seen a release yet. And I am not referring to pregrade, but rather having a card slabbed onsite by SGC.

I asked them about it (more specifically reholders) at the last Philly show and the guy didn't go on record as saying yes but that they had "a lot of plans" for the national. My takeaway was that reholders and grading seemed likely but who knows.

I wonder what these "plans" are. Would be a boom if they did something spectacular for the National.

If you are getting cards graded at the National, it is going to cost.

I have a good felling SGC will be slabbing on-site this year at the National.

Anyone know of an update about SGC grading at the National? There is speculation on other boards that they will grade onsite there, but nothing confirmed.

Anyone have an update? Crickets from SGC on this topic.

A friend asked this question yesterday, I said nothing has been mentioned by SGC so idk...based on the past several years I don’t know what to expect. Hopefully they come and grade on site for the first time since 2019.

I submitted to them at the Chantilly show and asked this.

They said their plans will be communicated soon, but it’s most likely Raw Card Review and verbatim quote, “something like this”, referring to take home submissions.

It was a younger fella so idk if he has the whole picture but either way, SGC can’t let PSA dominate their bread and butter at the national (pre-war).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wonder if SGC has made a corporate decision to not grade on site and Major card shows. This is National if you can’t do it for this one what can you do it for?

Last year, PSA announced their national plans in the first week of July. I believe SGC was within a day or two of that announcement stating they wouldn’t be.

I’d expect to hear something in the next week or two.

SGC cannot be considered a big player in the card grading game if they do not grade cards on site at the National.

The National exposure of grading on site is huge.

They should also make the pricing reasonable, no more than their current pricing structure to entice business and make the collectors feel they are getting a good deal.

They could cut off new submissions after Saturday and catch up any backlog by the end of the day Sunday. If they have to take limited stock back to complete after the National, they can offer free shipping as a perk.

They cannot take the #1 spot from PSA in the grading game but they might just bleed off some business from them if they approach this National correctly.

Just one opinion of course.

Thanks, I guess we will see. I wish SGC's marketing would improve, it leaves a lot to be desired.

No more than their current pricing structure? 10 fold their onsite staff travel, lodging and other expenses? 10 fold their freight costs to get the necessary equipment to Chicago…. All at the same cost they can do it at home for? I get needing/wanting exposure for a brand that is more economical than other grading options …. But they are a business first and foremost. That said I hope they grade on-site … but I wouldn’t expect it to be less than 2x or more their regular submission pricing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Beckett and PSA has graded on-site at the National as far back as I can remember going back 20+ years and their announcement a month before the show is usually to inform the public on what type of specials they'll be running.

Taking a look at the dealer floor map, there's no way SGC will be grading on site with slabbing because they just do not have the purchased floor space. If they were going to grade/slab on site, they would've announced that long ago.

Interesting about the floor layout.

I really hope SGC doesn’t fumble the ball and not grade at the National yet again.

Has not hurt them one bit not showing up to do onsite. Their regular service is so fast and reasonably priced unlike PSA and BVG that maybe they do not feel they need to be at the National to grade.

All I know is that if I like a company, I want them staying in business and making decisions that are good for their financial health--not ones that cater to my convenience.

I just participated in a group sub with SGC. My cards were back in a week.

No need to grade at the National.

SGC at National
 

The last time I got an onsite grade from SGC was years ago in Strongsville.
Other collectors have touched on this, but the bottom line is they don't feel
the need to set up camp in Chicago and do something less efficiently than
they can do at home. They get cards out quickly to submitters, and uprooting
to Chicago does nothing to further that goal. Trent King

For the last three responses, I am surprised at this sentiment. If going to the National and you like SGC, wouldn't you want to have cards graded onsite?

The bottom line for me is this is just bad optics for SGC. If all the other grading companies are grading onsite and SGC is not, it just begs the question why. And has begged this question now for 4 years running.

Sgc
 

Parkplace- I’m surprised that you are surprised. SGC has a reputation for very quick returns that is well deserved. The National does nothing but impede their best attribute while adding logistical nightmares. They are staying true to their model. There will be people lining up at PSA, very likely for outrageous in-house prices and very questionable results. That’s not SGC. Trent King

If you have cards worth a considerable amount of $ and would enjoy the peace of mind of dropping them off/picking them up in person rather than taking your chances with putting them in transit that's where it makes sense and why I'd like to see it. It has nothing to with beating their already solid turnaround times.

Bingo. And then if they aren't doing that, you might go to another grading company to have it graded there.

Again, we are talking about the biggest card show of the year. If you can't make the effort here.... I just don't know.

It may not be a floor layout thing. I distinctly remember in 2018 (albeit different venue and I understand that) they took cards literally underneath the convention center where they had an encapsulation machine doing cards.

Hard to come up with a legitimate reason not to be there grading from the point of view of business development. It's basically saying we are happy playing a very distant second fiddle to PSA and really don't give a shit what anyone in the hobby thinks about that.

This.

Agree with you 110%, Trent. Stay with what works.

It's like a certain politician's base, the faithful will excuse anything.

Fixed it for you.

Sgc
 

Peter- or, instead of an "excuse", it could just be an utterly accurate
observation based on years of experience. I find it hard to believe the powers
that be at SGC got together and decided to defy net54 members specifically
about grading at the National. It's not a "bad business move" or some act of
defiance, it's simply not their way. The fact that the folks at BMW
manufacture motorcycles, has not compelled the folks at Mercedes Benz to
follow suit ("Oh my gosh, we have to do exactly what BMW does or people
won't buy Benz anymore!"). This is a tempest in a teapot (as usual).

Trent King

I’m thinking $150 a card like last year.

Sgc / national
 

maybe we should go to the show and just have a great time.

Sgc
 

Bigfish- BINGO!! Trent King

I plan to. Thanks.

Had SGC same day grade some cards for me at the last pre Covid national in Atlantic City 5 or so years ago. Was really cool. There was like zero line there and seamless. It was great. Having a hard time believe those few days set their business model back in any meaningful way.

Gee zero line...I wonder if that just might be a factor. LOLOLOLOL. Ummm...any idea what it cost and the time involved in moving a grading operation to another location? Again, you can get almost immediate turnaround with their present model.

I really do not understand the arguments for them to be at the National grading other than people being people and wanting what they want without any regard for how what they want comes to fruition. SMH.

Remember there are also a ton of meeting rooms at the Stephens Convention Center and you don't have to be on the main floor to have a place to do grading on-site.

Many of the rooms are big enough for grading. I know one year Beckett had people in both the main floor and in a meeting room

Rich

While it's possible that the logistics are not cost-effective. I would point out that SGC graded at LOTS of shows in the past, not merely the national. Were they really flushing money away multiple times a year for many years?

Re SGC grading onsite at the National, half of me says, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do." The other half of me says, "no need to be a copycat." :confused:

Eating into PSA’s commanding lead in market share doesn’t seem to be a priority. It’s their business and if they are happy where they are more power to them. I’d have to think if they they could begin to close the gap with PSA they’d be a much more valuable business. In the modern card realm and Pokémon and Magic stuff they are essentially irrelevant.

The owner is probably happy doing what he's doing and isn't driven by ambition at this point. After all, he's made huge sums of money as a card (whatever noun you want to use), and seems to be doing very well in life. Just speculating but it makes sense to me. Not everyone in life is driven.

The fact that SGC didn't generate long grading lines (or any lines at all for that matter) while their competition had lines wrapping around the building tells you everything you need to know about about why they've chosen to not grade cards at the National. Especially nowadays where the shows are perpetually patrolled by an army of social media "influencers" who can't wait to post videos comparing them against PSA and trashing them for not having a line.

Add in the fact that it doesn't make economic sense for them to send a grading team, and it's really a no-brainer decision.

Actually, I think I've changed my mind already. They could generate long lines simply by offering a $5 grading special (or some other very enticing low number that gets new customers' hands on SGC slabs), while not getting too slammed by implementing some restrictions on that (maximum of 5 cards & $499 declared value). It would generate huge buzz in the hobby, and would have all the influencers praising them instead of crapping on them. The marketing value add would greatly overcome any labor costs in grading a large volume of cards.

Also, all of would take to cover the entire grading team's expenses is for one high end card that someone doesn't want to risk sending in the mail to get slabbed at the National that otherwise ends up in a PSA slab because they weren't grading there.

In the early 2000's, they had lines at the National. Their grading prices were much cheaper than PSA and they were actually considered on par with PSA grading tobacco cards at that time.

I have personally seen collectors/dealers submit hundreds of cards at a time with them at multiple Nationals in that earlier era.

I agree with Peter that the ownership has enough money and could care less whether they are #3 or #4 in the graded card market.

I think they could generate a lot of business even at a $25 level at the National with some limits as you suggest but it is very unlikely they would undertake such a venture.

They promised a new and better registry 3 years ago when they zapped their old one and alas, nothing.

They are what they are. A competent grading company that has great turn times but no desire to be more than they are.

In the early 2000's they at least tried to give PSA some level of competition.

No longer do they try!

Yep. They have their loyal customers, the owner and employees can grade their own cards, it's all good.

Low Expectations Yield Low Results/Stagnant Results....Business as usual at Boca.

Last Year they did Pre Gradin at the National. how did they work out ?

So this year prob just take home subs or nothing.

I wish their ownership tried a little to improve.

Sgc
 

Johnny360- do you mean hiring a ton of unqualified people and producing glacial turnaround times nevertheless? That kind of “improvement”? Yeah…no. These dissents read very much like they are being written by guys who blow a gasket when the drive thru is down at their go-to place. It’s got zero to do with “low expectations” and that other nonsense. They aren’t grading on site because they have judged it doesn’t fit the strength of their business. How many of you who are complaining about this small “ affront”, would knowingly do something against your own business interest due to comments that basically boil down to online whining? What is that number? None of you? Got it…File this under “no big deal” and enjoy the National. Good heavens! Trent King

The hobby seems overly forgiving of this.

I don't think SGC is trying to steal business from any other TPG. Seems there is plenty of business for all concerned. If and when they need to make more money or take more of the market, they will, or at least they will try. Not going to the National is a very smart business move for them. Those who are all bent out of shape over it will still submit to them.

Agree. And the lack of a registry continues to boggle my mind.

Web developers and server admins cost money. They can't just give them $20 per hour and put them through a 5 hour training course like they can with graders. Who knew?

They obviously had trained employees to do these tasks when they HAD a registry for many years. If they could not improve on it, they should have just kept the existing one.

As long as the SGC faithful get their own cards back quickly and within two grades of accurate, they seem happy. After my last sub which I've posted about, I'm in the never again category, I think, unless there is some way to assure the grader knows vintage.

As part of my monthly nagging that I do to them, I gave them Hell again about the registry while in Chantilly last week.

What was the response?

The bigger problem was the story we were fed by SGC that a new one was coming. What you said may be true, but then don't promise a new one.

They promised me they were just tinkering with the wording of their guarantee and it would be back on the website shortly. This was, maybe three plus years ago.

Which is worse?

No guarantee, or a meaningless guarantee?

And therefore what? It was OK to drop the guarantee and lie about it? I am not sure I see your point.

HA. It was intended to be a primarily rhetorical question.

And to highlight that the existing guarantees we do have in this industry don’t mean anything. Ergo, the loss of the guarantee doesn’t seem to be a particularly terrible loss.

Trent got it absolutely right. If the objective is to make a profit, how can they possibly offer grading at a reduced price while paying for all the logistical and infastructure costs associated with on-site grading?

I just attended the Long Beach Expo last weekend where PSA offered on-site grading, drop off, and on-site autograph authentication. Here are a couple of my takeaways:

Cost: Cheapest was Express - $150 per card

Forms: All forms were to be completed on-line prior to the show and brought with the item for turn in. (I like this but will explain the problem later)

Lines: There was one line only to get to CS. The line was a mix for everything; drop off, pick up, grading, autograph authentication, etc.

Here are some observations.

Since there weren't separate lines for pick up and drop off, a big bottleneck occurred. The gentleman in front of me failed to prepare a turn in form to have his cards graded. After waiting in line for about 45 minutes, he had to leave the line - find a public computer to prepare his form (PSA didn't have one for public use), print off his form, get back in line and go through the process again. That's just to get to CS. (Yes, I know he should have followed the rules, but sometimes people don't read, or understand, the fine print).

There weren't sufficient graders, authenticators, or space on-site to handle the volume. One gentleman turned in numerous autographed guitars to be authenticated. There wasn't adequate space for storage, so they were moved to PSA's home office area for storage, etc. Keep in mind that PSA authenticates numerous other items at these events other than cards.

Customers, at least me, weren't notified when our items were ready for pick-up, which would have made the process more enjoyable.

From a manpower perspective it may not be feasible, but at these large events if they could be categorized by category, drop off, pick up and more thought given to customer flow it sure would make things easier.

Back to SGC. If the bottom line doesn't allow them to offer on-site grading, I don't think it is going to hurt their business model in the slightest. They currently offer great turnaround times at an affordable cost and do an acceptable job of grading. Why would they want to offer something that could possibly cause more harm than good and lose money in the process.

Just a few thoughts.

It's not, but I did not like the attitude or the disingenuousness.

If you will indulge me further, perhaps you could share why you feel the erstwhile guarantee would be meaningful, were it to be reinstated?

Wasn't this also around the time where SGC closed up the autograph authentication portion of their business after it was discovered that they had authenticated forged sigs on T206s? This way they did not have to write checks. Classy move.

Once again, the hobby forgives these types of actions by the TPG. We all bitch and moan about how strict they are, how unfair it is, how horrible it is they grade altered cards and refuse to buy them back, how expensive it is to grade or how long the wait is and now we are upset SGC will not show up to the National yet most or all of us forgive them for all of this and send them more money. There is nothing that they could do that would stop us from sending them more money.

Seems like a nice business to be in!

Unlike PSA where the horror stories are legion, I had never heard of SGC not honoring the "erstwhile" guarantee. And it was the middle third of the company's NAME for god's sake. So yeah trashing it was a big deal IMO.

Gotcha. I wasn’t familiar with the backstory that SGC had historically honored the guarantee.

Evidently they were concerned about all the altered cards being outed and wanted off the hook. Brazen move IMO, but with their loyal fanbase they rightly figured nobody would care.

Another rhetorical question not entirely intended to make your blood boil:

Is it better to eliminate a guarantee, or keep it and just decline to honor it?

I suppose those are the two outcomes we’ve seen, and it seems like the collective response has been a shrug, although some around here have noisily expressed their dissatisfaction with those outcomes.

Sgc
 

Another question, not rhetorical- wasn't the topic the "controversy" of SGC
not grading at the National? We've reached Groundhog Day status, folks.

Trent King

Do people think that if they kiss ass on grading companies in a public forum they might potentially get better grades down the road? :)

LOL! They might think that but what they fail to take into account is that the grading companies likely do not read this drivel. They would if we stopped sending them our cards but that happens a day after never.

Embrace the journey, Trent!!

Just because we start complaining about one thing doesn’t mean that we should be constrained to narrowly limit our lamentations to within the confines of the original source of our bellyaching. We need room to roam and fully explore all of our avenues for dissatisfaction.

Well, at least openly eliminating it has the virtue of candor, so i would say that's marginally better.

Anyone who followed the BODA threads and who is tuned into the extent to which altered cards actually permeate this hobby should have been able to predict the dissolution of any guarantee program that any of the TPGs pretended to offer. Just add up the total value of their potential exposure and compare that against their valuations as companies. They don't really have a choice here if they wish to remain in business.

Not necessarily , but I was contacted by a board member years ago who told me he doesn’t comment on grading companies at all. Too many eyes on the board he said.

They 100% monitor these boards.

What a sad commentary on third party grading, if the companies cannot even afford to stand behind their services. Imagine a car manufacturer that could not afford to offer a warranty. But in the hobby, where stuff, and flips, trump all, nothing seems to matter.

True and sad.

Can anyone get ahold of Peter to get an update? Again, just some conjecture on the post, no actual response from SGC.

Someone (that I don't know) just posted in a good, and usually reputable, private Facebook group that SGC is grading on site...

Does SGC know this? ;)

raw card review does not count


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They said that after every show, they have a sit-down to discuss customer concerns that were brought up at the show and the registry is always among the the top three things mentioned. They understand collectors want it, but I don’t know that they had a solid reply beyond that.