Justifying a Big Purchase
 

Hey folks,

Could use some words of encouragement. I’m staring at a scarce pre-war card that has blown me away.

It’s not cheap (for me at least). It would be the biggest card purchase of my life but I can pay for it in cash today. It doesn’t impact my ability to pay for any current or future bills.

That said, I am still hesitant for some reason and I am not sure why. When I’m buying to later sell, I can justify it much more easily. This one is going to be a very long hold.

What do you tell yourself in moments like this? How do you handle the mental gymnastics?

Any help is appreciated!

-Don


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The way I see it, you only live once. As long as you can afford it and aren’t overextending yourself, I say go for it. Of course, this philosophy has also resulted in me redoing the master bedroom and bathroom for my wife😳.

I would not do it unless it's absolutely the RIGHT CARD at a CONSIDERABLE DISCOUNT to it's Real True Value that you can pay for in CASH in PERSON IN OTHER WORDS NOT ON A AUCTION HOUSE OR RETAIL PLATFORM

You Said your hesitant for some reason and are not sure why....all I can say is TRUST YOUR GUT.

Go for it. So far, I haven't regretted a few purchases like that. Worst case, if you buy at an ok price, you can sell it if you have to. It's not like you are wasting your money.
.

I have a couple of rules for when I make big purchases myself. Maybe this will help you.

I'll only spend what I consider to be a lot of money if I feel as though the card I'm buying is easily resold at a later date should I need the money back. That rules out most esoteric cards but it also means I generally see a pretty good return on what I buy (largely spending big on Cobbs and Ruths, for example. Easily sold later and usually for more than I paid).

I would say that since you are putting this much thought into it and posting here asking, go for it.

There have been a few rarities I've missed on by waffling over the purchase despite having the cash on hand and ready. I don't regret missing them since something else has always come up to make me quickly forget, but there are a few pieces in my collection that I will have for a very long time that I don't regret paying for, and would be disappointed if I didn't own.

I would guess you're naturally a saver when it comes to finances. There's nothing wrong with that. Your hesitation is really just your body's reaction to saying this doesn't feel right. So I would start by asking yourself why am I hesitant about this? Would spending the money make you feel less secure? Does it feel wasteful? Greedy? Would you be resentful of the card? There is a lot of introspective stuff that only you can answer. Having a good friend/spouse that you can bounce your feelings off of without being judged or telling you what to do/not do is a great thing in these situations.

For me, it really depends on what is going on at the time. I always pay cash so if I don't have enough, I don't get it. That includes making sure I have enough set aside that if something else I want more comes up I can still get that as well. Other things I consider is how easily I could recoup my money if I end up not wanting it down the road and what are the chances I'll see the card for sale again. I can also say that the more I've spent on a card the easier it has been to spend that same amount again, but I always have that same hesitation when I spend more than I have before.

What is the real downside: if for some reason perhaps you have to sell it in the next few years for reasons unknown currently, maybe you consign to an auction and lose a few percents of what you paid?

Since you have no plans to sell, I say go for it. Doubt very much you will regret it.

Most of my regrets past 7-8 years have been what I DIDN'T buy.

Big purchase
 

Hi Don- first, I admire your willingness to ask the question. If I read you correctly, you are sound financially and wish to buy the card in question perhaps as a bucket list item, or a sentimental favorite that happily is valuable as well. There are folks on net54 who consistently default to a resell value mentality that is clearly their prime mover. You aren’t one of them. Steve Nap makes a great point about regrets frequently coming because you don’t buy, rather than when you do. You sound squared away to me. Buy and enjoy! Heck, if you are willing to share in the future, I’d like to know what it is:) Trent King

I would buy it if it is a card you really want and you can afford.

The downside is very small as others have mentioned if you ever need to cash it out for an emergency expense.

I would use a slightly different analysis.

Let's assume that you can't ever sell it. Either because no one wants to buy it, or because no one wants to pay more than $1 for it. And if you're planning to keep it for the rest of your life, then this seems like it's really going to happen anyway, since only your heirs will care about whether it's worth anything.

Based on that assumption, would you get sufficient enjoyment just by having it in your collection for the next few decades (or longer) that it makes your purchase worth it? If so, then it seems like you have your answer.

Typically when I'm paying a gigantic pile of cash for a piece of cardboard, it's because I've been questing for it for a long, long time, and there's a big hole in my collection where it belongs. And another one might not come along again for decades. So I take a deep breath, remind myself how important the piece is to my collection, and pull the trigger.

Great personal example is my recent pickup of a 1959 Bazooka Mays Complete Box. Thread here: https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=332462

For me, part of the current calculus is that I've been keeping my powder dry for pieces that are truly that rare. I curtailed my purchases for pretty much all of last year, and focused on paying off the house. Now that I've invested heavily in other areas, I have a lot more flexibility to spend on my collection.

A key element for me is whether the piece is really that rare and difficult to find. Stuff that comes onto the market every few weeks or months? I can buy that stuff next year or next decade when the market has calmed down to what I feel is the right price. If I blow all of my cash today on pieces that I can get any time, then I won't be ready for the stuff that I really want. Stuff that's impossible to find? That's why I've been saving my pennies, so that I'm ready to pounce when those items come onto the market.

In terms of the financial future, I've posted my darkest fears here enough that I don't need to repeat them in great detail again. But an assumption that you can re-sell any time you want and only experience a small loss seems to be overlooking the very real possibility that the current market could tank hard. Particularly given the run up in prices over the last 2 years, with prices in just about every category rising 500% to 1000%, it seems folly to suggest that the market couldn't drop by 30-50% or more. But I seem to be in the minority in holding that opinion. Bottom line for me is I wouldn't base my decision around the expectation that you'll be able to resell it without taking a painful financial hit.

Agree with most on here...you're likely going to regret not getting it in the future, especially since you're not over extending yourself financially.

There are several cards I wish I would have jumped on at the time (in the past and recent) that I know I won't really have a shot at again, and it still bothers me :).

Best of luck with your decision!

Bill

Buy it. If, having bought it, you are incapacitated by remorse, then sell it. All your questions will have been answered.

Well stated advice:
 

I think both of the above offer incredible thought-provoking responses to your question. The only thing I would add is in the financial side of the equation - If the card is of a "blue chip" player like Ruth or Cobb, I would consider the card highly liquid, resistant to downside risk and easily sold if need be. If the card is so expensive because it is a really obscure "common player" I would share concern as to possible price volatility.

I echo all of the great advice already posted. I would add that if you are married, I believe it would be wise to obtain your wife's blessing.

I know that I am overly cautious and conservative when it comes to spending what to me are larger sums of money, perhaps because my parents never had much and we lived very frugally (my dad was wiped out during the 1930's depression, and I don't think he ever recovered mentally). Hence, much to my regret, I have passed on several WaJo cards over the last 25 years that I wish I had in my WaJo collection today.

This is what I do. If I have to try and justify a purchase it is time to turn around and run away.

Wise words here.

Due to just such a previous purchase, I now have some limits in place.

Under $1k, no limits.
$1k to $10k - wifely notification required, but after purchase is fine
Over $10k - wifely approval required prior to purchase

And in my case, she views any single purchase or payment in the aggregate. So just because I buy 30 pieces at auction doesn’t mean that I get to skirt the rules by dividing the total purchase by 30!

Edited to add: I did negotiate one exception. If I sell a piece first, then I can reinvest the proceeds with reckless disregard to any approval or notification requirements.

Some great responses above... I will only add that in my experience collecting prewar cards over the last two decades or so, my main regrets are passing on some cards that I now wish I had purchased. Particularly, a few that are very difficult to find.

I prefer to think about it in investment terms. There is no question a sportscard is an "alternative investment." For investing, even if you are doing so responsibly with a mix of bonds, stocks and real estate, it is not considered unwise to have a small percentage of your portfolio in alternative investments like art, collectables, cryptocurrency, etc. for diversification. Of course, if 90% of your life savings and retirement is in shiny cards of current minor league ballplayers (or even rare vintage cards), you might want to rethink your portfolio holdings.

Will all of these investments go up in value? Of course not. But, historically, several have increased in value over time. On the flip side, a 40% loss on a Mickey Mantle rookie stings, but is not substantially MORE likely than a 40% drop in the stock market. And, in both cases, the market has recovered as time passes.

To me, vintage sportscards are like pieces of art. Plenty of financially savvy investors have a portion of their portfolio in fine art. The advise of art investors is to do your research, find something that speaks to you, and buy at a fair price. Let the market do what it is going to do while you enjoy your art.

The wife caveat is a big one. I look to mine to slow my impulse buys (but she always encourages the purchase). But, if your wife is concerned about your finances and would be more nervous or upset if you had more money tied up in your art, then there is no way you are going to enjoy it as much as you are going to not enjoy an upset and/or worried wife.

Is it your main wheelhouse of collecting? Maybe you're hesitant because it's not what you normally buy?

I have bought a few cards outsideof my normal habits (I prefer memorabilia) over the last 18 months that I turned around and sold to purchase my main interest. One memorabilia item got shipped this morning and it's a doozy!

If it's truly going to be a main PC item, go for it. The more expensive items I own are the ones I still think "I can't believe I own that."

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ben lol

My thought process is if you can afford it but you are still hesitant, don’t pull the trigger.

Maybe that’s overly simple but it works for me.

A good opportunity to sell something else to help pay for a dream card. Whittling down or consolidating your collection is a-ok. Easier to justify if you help by selling a lesser card.

Only you can make the decision. But if you are having doubts, maybe right down the pros and cons and go from there.

I am in the same lines of thinking as Andrew here. I’d go for it if pre war iconic player and a scarce card you won’t regret it.

I vote for go for it
Since you have the cash and do not have to charge/borrow very good sign.
If it gives you enjoyment go for it
If it is a solid card it is probably liquid and relatively to sell if needed.
If you are looking as an investment it is just a form of diversification and it is good to diversify

Asking a bunch of junkies and investors will always result in a ‘do it’ consensus ;)

I would look at what percent of your cash on hand this represents, and the ease of selling it. Being able to pay for it in cash doesn’t mean tossing most of your savings account at a baseball card is wise, though it’s better than 401K draining. A rare card often has few buyers looking for it. If your gut says it is fiscally irresponsible, even though you want it and your bias is of course to do it, that’s the clue not to do it.

Purchase
 

If it is a Cobb, Jackson, Mantle, Ruth or Robinson in a PSA or SGC holder and the price is right…should be a no brained IMO.

greg lol

A couple posters have mentioned avoiding "escoteric" cards. I'd love for that to be more clearly defined, what cards are considered escoteric by the posters who only think about "Ruth,Cobb,Wagner..."?

A big part of being a collector is which mentality you choose to follow. For me, and it was something I had to learn (so it can be done!), it has greatly helped to realize that you can part with items and it's OK. It becomes easier the more you do it. You'll find another copy of X card if it's meant to be, or something even more appealing to the future version of yourself will inevitably appear. Appreciate what you have, but don't squeeze the cards too closely to your heart. They are pieces of cardboard that bring enjoyment, but let them visit you for a while on their journeys then allow them to move on if that's how it's to be.

If the card and price points check out and it's something that you can afford without strain, just buy it. If you do find yourself pressed to sell down the road and end up making a tidy profit, you just might find your whole mentality changed on your behalf due to that nice flip you made! :)

One thing to think of is what is your history with making decisions. If you struggle with making choices and often find yourself thinking too long and missing out on an opportunity, then this would be my suggestion:

When I buy a big card, there is always a component to it of "Do I think I could sell this for about what I am paying if something happened and I needed the money?" I think that's a good question to ask yourself. If the answer is yes, and you really want the card, I don't see any reason not to buy it.

If however, you tend to make quick decisions (and be happy with them afterwards) then maybe you should listen to your gut and be cautious. Maybe the price is too high and know it would be tough to sell it if you had to. Or maybe the seller wasn't pleasant and somewhere inside you know that would impact your enjoyment of the card, etc.

My answer depends on whether or not this is a card Im looking to add to my collection (dont do it!) or not (hey man, go for it).

Edited to add: I havent done this in awhile, but in the past when I struggled with choices I'd flip a coin and see the results. My gut instinct would almost always spring forward and indicate whether I really should or really shouldnt.

Hey, if the price is right and you think you could sell it later if you had to, I say go for it. You've put thought into it, you have stated that you have the means and can pay cash.

The few times (not just collecting) in my life when I didn't go and do something like this, I've regretted it later.

Let us all know what you decide and what it is...I'm dying to know.

An esoteric card is a card that has a very limited audience. Here are some examples:

Jimmy Claxton ZeeNut
Ten Million Obak
That Uncle Sam card in the T209 set
"Rare" Old Judge team cards

All of these cards are valuable and they all have their buyers. But those buyers are never going to outnumber the buyers for a green Cobb T206, which you'll never have any trouble selling.

You might have to wait for the right buyer in other circumstances, which makes it harder to get your money out when you need it back.

The bottom line is that no one can predict the future. If you have enough cash to live for six months in your current lifestyle and you feel your job would be secure, even in a harsher than predicted recession, then I would consider the purchase. Otherwise, I would pass and work to add to my savings.

Agree completely with this.

Tell us what you decide, and post a pic if you buy!

No offense to board members who have posted, but I don't rely on strangers' advice to help me spend my money.

Frank, is this like when Bill Murray made that Somerset Maugham movie?


If I have any doubts, I pass. There are always other nice cards coming up later.

What About Bob?

Something like that. I can't recall, which also helps not regretting not buying stuff.

I look at it this way:

People need to find enjoyment in life, and often that costs money. Some people like to travel, or hit a casino once in awhile, while some will drop some dough at the local watering hole once or twice a week.

Some people take cruises, stay at nice hotels or eat out at good restaurants a couple times a week, or go to a movie theater every weekend. Some people will spend a hundred or more dollars per game attending sports events...

And so on. Here's the thing - the hobby that gives you pleasure does not involve spending money; it involves putting your money into something that will likely hold its value.

All of the other examples I gave above result in money being spent and gone. Your example is the opposite - it involves money being preserved. I'd say, not only go for it, but go for it and feel great about your decision because not only does it give you pleasure, it is also a wise move.

What you say makes some sense, but I don't agree that you cannot lose real money in the hobby. There are members here that remember bad advice they received regarding some of their own purchases.

Of course you can lose money buying a baseball card. But the other hobbies I mentioned are guaranteed money expenditures. How many baseball, football, basketball, or hockey games have you attended, where you get back any of your money later on?

That's precisely what I keep telling my wife.

It's an investment, not an expenditure!!!

"You keep spending money on baseball cards..."
"Correction. I keep investing money in baseball cards."

I had an opportunity to buy an item I really wanted, with a cost of $10,000+. I had the money, but hesitated for a bit because of the amount. I bought it and never regretted it. I’m so glad I didn’t pass on it due to price. I knew if I didn’t buy it, I would have regretted it. Enjoying it every day!

Mark S, I agree completely. People spend thousands on vacations and other things with zero possibility of getting any money back. But for some reason it’s viewed as risky to buy pre-war cards that have historically held value and often appreciated nicely. I have never understood the logic.

Andrew

I have spent several thousand on every trip to Europe and would never in a second trade any one of those many trips for a baseball card.

I do agree that unless you have to sell shortly after purchase you can get back at least half your money after fees on popular vintage cards. More if you don't pay taxes.:D

This is a great thread.

I do agree that unless you have to sell shortly after purchase you can get back at least half your money after fees on popular vintage cards. More if you don't pay taxes.

Pretty absurd statement me thinks. If I buy a quality vintage card at a nice AH like LOTG or Heritage for $30,000 and have to sell it, I will get back less than $15,000? No. That's a very unlikely outcome. Not impossible but pretty unlikely. I track a few hundred vintage cards, and very very few of them have dropped 50% in value. Actually probably zero of them.

And there wouldn't be any tax liability if you bought a card and sold it for a huge loss, so I'm not sure what that means.

I haven't sold one vintage card at a 50% loss and don't know anyone who has. Maybe I've lost 10-15% but that would be the most. And on 95% of my sales I have made a profit.

Fair point so lets do some math. I do not know the actual numbers so please provide them for me on a $30k purchase.

At $30K you are the person who will pay the most for that card so lets use the underbidders bid as what you can really sell it for. Then take off the buyers and sellers premium and the tax liabilities being a collector and not a business and what do you have left. Seriously I am curious.

Another factor for many buyers is the sales tax. Every card I buy costs me more than 10% extra to pay off my county. To flip it, I need to make more than 10% of the previous sale just to cover my initial actual bill.

Great point on the extra sales tax. I found it strange but ebay even charged me tax on an item I recently purchased from the UK.

Big purchase
 

Great, a compelling topic is once again off the rails. The poster is NOT
interested in 'flipping it" and said as much. Save that nonsense for another
thread or- here's a thought- start another thread. "Seek life elsewhere"!

Trent King

How often can you get on point commentary and a GI Jane reference in one
short message?

If one is spending what constitutes a lot of money for them, the ability to turn back into cash if they need too should be considered. 0 of my cards were bought with the intent to sell, but if I really need to, it's good that I can flip them and keep a roof over my head. If you're putting a lot of money into an item, you could factor in what happens if your life regresses.

I guess you haven't had a meltdown for a couple months though, so go ahead. You're due for another tantrum.

One can never turn a vacation, attending sporting events, movies, going to restaurants, bars, the circus, and so on "back into cash" at all.

The point isn't to try to calculate the percentage profit (or investment retention) of a hypothetical card, in a possible future sale. The point is, of all the ways people can find enjoyment in life while laying out cash, buying cards is far more fiscally prudent than most. And therefore, I would suggest, something that should let the OP's mind rest easy in that decision.

I am not disagreeing with you whatsoever. Any card is a better return than going to a bar.

I think one should factor in, if they are spending more than say 5% of their cash on a cardboard picture of a dude, what they could turn that back into if they needed to, and the likelihood they will gain or lose. If you end up needing cash, how much you can get back is very relevant. That it is a better return on investment even if craters than wasting money on booze or food or circus trips isn't the only comparison.

You don't know what the card is, the OP says it won't be sold for a very long time, you and Ben are speculating about whether there's sales tax, you're assuming auction house fees, etc., etc. With so many unknown variables, including what the economy will look like down the road, why try to pretend you can make any reasonable guess at what the unspecified card might sell for after an unspecified interval? This is where I think you took this thread off topic.

I don't think you actually read my post. Nowhere did I say or imply that I know what this card is, what it mights ell for. I never said a word about auction houses (who I have never recommended using and spoken against) whatsoever. I said these are things the OP, who does know the card and I would hope the market, should consider. I think sales tax is part of the calculation that wasn't listed in the total expidenture previously.

A card that you think will grow, even if you don't plan to sell, is a better buy when we are talking a signifiant amount of your capital than a card that is rare but with few buyers and which it may be difficult to get a good return on if you need to get capital back in the future. I am surprised this is controversial and it is obviously not off topic to the question about the wisdom in spending large amounts on a card.

On your deathbed, you always regret the purchases you DID NOT make.

Big Purchase
 

1911- if by “meltdown” you mean the ability to follow a directly stated line of thought, then sure. You can call it a “melt down”, Socrates. It just strikes me as amusing that the self proclaimed Professor of Dialectics can’t stay ON POINT. Don’t worry, I know you’re never wrong and, if you are in danger of being called out for being a clown, will try to institute your own rules to rescue your failing point. Seen it before 1911- you do you!! Trent King Original point still stands- make the buy!!

Big purchase continued
 

Mark17- thanks for your lucidity. Get ready for a furious tap dance by resident psycho 1911 though. He’s such a fun guy, not a colossal bore at all! Trent King

We have the question "What do you tell yourself in moments like this? How do you handle the mental gymnastics?" about putting a significant amount of capital into a card purchase. My post that one should consider their return if they need to convert it back into capital, as it is a significant amount of their capital, is directly on topic and answers the question.

Your post, #54, continuing your personal vendetta, which you hijack a thread every 2 or 3 months to do, last time bitching that I was not in support of lynching people, is not on topic to the question whatsoever and provides 0 answer.

Never change!

Buy it
 

In situations like this I have come to rely on my own sense of rarity / scarcity. I have put my eyeballs on 100s of thousands if not millions of items at this point in my collecting life. I know if i’ve seen something once or twice or a thousand times. I scale it in terms of time - does this item come around once a week, month, year, or perhaps only once every decade. I buy everything I rarely see because I don’t know if I will get another bite at the apple or not. I have no regrets with these scarce purchase decisions so far. If someone knows better than you how scarce this item is, and how infrequently it is offered for sale, then maybe check in with that person, otherwise trust your own instincts here.

Big purchase
 

1911- hilarious, you did exactly what I said you would. I’m stunned, truly. You can’t stay on point, but you are infallible so obviously someone else is at fault. Do you practice this outhouse-level fluffery on 8 year olds? Wait, on second thought don’t answer that- I just don’t care. Many commenters who manage to stay on point- despite being clearly inferior to your giant intellect- have espoused the opinion that the poster should buy. THAT was the point. Fini… Trent King

The card has “blown you away”. You can “pay for it in cash” and it “doesn’t impact your ability to pay any current or future bills”. Honestly, I don’t get the hesitation. Sounds like you can afford it and it’s something you really want. Buy it

Personally, I have many more regrets about things I did not buy than things I bought. Good luck. Please let us know how it shakes out

Sincerely,

A Junkie and an Investor (and a collector)

Ben, for a $30k(ish), you are not paying a seller’s premium. In fact, you should get a portion of the buyer’s premium. And you have no tax liability if you sell a card at a loss- you have no income, only partial recovery of basis which was after tax dollars and which is not taxable. So, your loss is likely your cost (including taxes and shipping), minus the hammer + whatever portion of the BP you may be able to negotiate.

I have had a "Sportscard Fund" separate from all my other income. It consists of money that is set aside to purchase items for my collection, items to resale, etc. It funds itself. At times the fund is full - other times not so much.

As long as you can afford it without adversely affecting monies you live on, and it's something you desire and covet, purchase the card. If you have doubts or concerns, my advice is not to.

NEVER, NEVER purchase cards that you can't afford to buy with cash! That's just me.

Good Luck with whatever you decide.

1. No one in their right mind pays a seller's commission consigning a $25,000 card. If they do, frankly, they are uninformed.

2. There is no tax ramification of me buying a card for $30,000. Or a million dollars.

3. If I sell something for more than I bought it for, only then do I owe taxes. And then, by definition, I haven't lost money on the sale.

4. If I bought a nice vintage card for $30,000 and had to sell literally tomorrow, ok, maybe I sell it for $28,000 or $27,000 in the next auction, WORST case scenario.
That's no doubt where the runners up landed. And I've lost maybe 10%. Nowhere near 50%.

5. If you paid 7% sales tax, tell the AH you want 107% of the hammer. Exactly what I've gotten from one of the major AH's many times.

I can live fine without. 1952 Topps Mantle, but I have a friend who is a huge fan and is working on a set. I started finding him nice ones when they were about $14k an he couldn't bring himself to pull the trigger. The man is a successful attorney and won not have really noticed it. He regrets it now.

Thanks guys. I don't swim in the deep end of the pool so I didn't know. Maybe i should have read one of Bob's epic posts on taxes.:)

I do feel it is important to know about selling a card that is expensive to the buyer even if they don't plan on selling.

Never buy anything you can’t afford ,never ..you will regret it sooner then later ,,

Ben, just to be clear, the other post you quote is not entirely accurate. While there is no state or federal income tax consequence on a purchase, Most people must pay state sales tax when they buy a card, which should be added to cost/basis for determining gain or loss.

I live in Maryland and the sales tax is 6%. I factor this into every bid I place. On a $30k card, the sales tax is $1800!! Ouch

Steve is 100% correct that Federal tax liability may accrue when you sell a card, but only if you sell for a gain.

I'm in a similar spot as the OP. Though possibly for much less money, it would be my largest single-card purchase, a significant HOFer that I want to get eventually and will keep for life. The quandary (maybe sgared by the OP) is that pulling the trigger will limit my ability to buy some other cards on my want list for a while. I'd love owning and looking at the big-ticket item, but it would be tough sitting on the sidelines for a while.

I love birthdays because I can have my cake and eat it, too. Doesn't always work easily in the hobby.

Eise


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I guess I go against the grain here, but since you started with....give me some encouragement?

I would say that you are not ready to purchase this card. You need to wait until you can pull the trigger without having to ask for a boost


Just my thoughts, good luck

If you had to have it, you would have just bought it, not asked the Board I think?

That should tell you something.

Agreed!

The hesitation is the issue, the OP should not buy, imo

Sales/use tax doesn't matter on where an item comes from, it is all based on where it is going to.

As long as you are comfortable with the purchase price I say go for it!
Card is scarce and pre-war --- check
Card has blown you away --- check
You can afford the card --- check
You plan on keeping the card for awhile --- check

We all work and have an income to enjoy things in life
Go get your card and enjoy it