OT: Ohtani
 

Off topic as not vintage related . . .but on topic as the single greatest baseball story of my lifetime and I suspect many others. I mean, cmon, he pitches and then does stuff like this. Simply defies reason.


https://www.mlb.com/news/shohei-ohta...-own-billboard

I just watched the game with my son and he was particularly excited that Ohtani almost hit his own face in that ad, something I hadn’t noticed.

Guy is amazing.

+1 agree he is talented and he is an amazing baseball/sport story
and the young kids seem to love him.

I think he will be this generations Mickey Mantle. The guy if you are a young kid into baseball. Almost magical powers. And seems to be a good guy.

You may very well be spot on with your assessment.

Sorry, but I can't resist.

Is OT "off topic" or "Oh Tani"?

IF he can stay healthy. It will be great for baseball if he can.

And here is a vintage themed card.

Class act but as an oakland fan screw the angels

I'm looking forward to Ohtani being a Met next year.

I've been a fan of Ohtani since his MLB debut. My main PC focus is post-war vintage. I typically buy/grade/sell ultra modern cards to help fuel my PC, buy around Thanksgiving and sell it all off during spring training. This off-season though, I've been buying Ohtani cards that I like and will be holding them into the season. I usually hate holding current players, it feels too risky. But I can't fight the urge any longer, Ohtani is so damn fun to watch and root for, and there are some ultra modern designs that I love.

It's been a blast hunting down cards for my new PC.

OT: Ohtani
 

Same thing here with me here2. I don’t collect much new stuff but I’m so glad that I picked this up when I did. It’s gone up in value about seven times what I paid for it and I think it’s just going to keep going up. The guy is amazing so the sky is the limit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...465df512f5.png


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Great card. I graded and sold a bunch of his mid/high end RC in 2019 and 2020. Wish I had kept some of them.

I was likely the one buying them, lol. I admittedly stockpiled like no ones business during that time.

Ohtani is one of my 2 modern pcs and this might be the card of his I want the most.

I'm not much into modern cards either, but I did pick up an Ohtani rookie as an exception and I'm glad I did.

I believe that Ichiro paved the way for Japanese players like Ohtani to move seamlessly into MLB. He proved that they can play at a very high level. He made it easier for those who followed.

That card is probably a great investment, and I can appreciate it from that perspective, but some (most?) of the modern limited release cards aren't appealing looking at all to me. I do pick up base Topps cards of some of my favorite current players, including, Ohtani, and the design of those are hit or miss from year to year.

I completely agree. I just got it because it’s his true RC, I’m not a fan of the majority of modern cards.

Ditto. :cool:

it defies reason that the Angels aren't a better team with him and Trout

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So Hideo Nomo's ROY, most strikeouts in first three seasons of a career, leading each league in K's, and two no-hitters didn't do that???

Not on the same level as Ichiro. Not even close. No one even knows who Hideo Nomo is/was today. Ichiro is a household name.

He seems to get so much right on field and off.

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=35621

Ha, that's awesome!

Career wise Nomo isn't on the same level as Ichiro but Nomo was the one who broke the barrier on the Japanese side which allowed NPB players to go to the US in the first place.

Ichiro (along with Shinjo) was the first position player to make the move to MLB so he is also quite important in that respect, but I don't think its fair to sell Nomo short (and Nomo was a household name at one point in the 90s for what it is worth).

Does anyone know how many different rookie cards there are of Ohtani? I can't keep up with modern.

you're talking about fame. His post said Ichiro Paved the way. I would argue that Nomo paved the way for Ichiro and Matsui. He was the first Japanese player who proved they could compete at the top levels of MLB.

I'm not ready to put in that kind of effort. And count both RC and RY classifications? I found this handy rundown https://www.beckett.com/news/shohei-...ie-card-guide/, which states "Inserts and parallels are not included."

I have a few Ohtani cards, nothing super rare, but a few for fun. He's really the only current player that has my interest.

Ichiro's 2025 Hall of Fame enshrinement will be great.

Nomo's instant success in 1995, as well as proving that a MLB career was possible, clearly sparked the interest in Japanese players.

And, then also need to have a 1965 Topps card of Masanori Murakami.

Yikes! I counted 61 rookie cards.

+1........and he is a good person, humble and always a smile on his face

It's an unanswerable question, but I wonder sometimes what Oh would have done in MLB. Would he have been a star? His stats, not just the home runs but also the on base percentage due to a staggering number of walks, are off the charts.

I wonder that too. He would not have hit anywhere near 868 home runs in MLB (smaller stadium size, use of compressed bats definitely helped him in NPB), but at the same time I think he could very well have had a decent HOF career in the US if he had played there.

There are a few other NPB guys from his generation in that "What if" category. Isao Harimoto, Japan's career hits leader, is the most interesting. He is the only player in professional baseball history to literally have survived having a nuclear bomb dropped on him (as a child), and then went on to have a career that in many ways was even better than Oh's, though he isn't as well known outside of Japan.

Here’s my only Ohtani card, can’t believe that it has been sitting on eBay since last year in the $3,000’s and no buyer yet. I don’t think there is much better than his 2018 Topps Chrome rookie auto.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/33479385224...mis&media=COPY

Phil - nothing personal, but those are dreadful photos. Take out of the bag and get nice sharp photos up. Prob sell quickly.

Thanks for the input, Steve. I was just at the safe deposit box this morning too, I need to do that.

One of the best buys I ever made. Waited till he got hurt and everyone thought he was all hype:

https://live.staticflickr.com/1876/2...f80f1b2cb1.jpg

I don't believe I own an Ohtani RC. I don't think I own any cards from 2006 - 2019.

Anyway, I would agree that Nomo was extremely influential. I was still learning about cards when Nomo appeared. He and his battery mate Piazza were the rave. I lived in Montana, and Nomo and Piazza were commanding big $$$ to a 9 yo. And Nomo was appearing on high end products like SP and Topps Finest. I would stare at them through the glass although I couldn't buy anything except 50 cent packs.

Nomo was good for a year or two but I think it's hard to argue that he paved the way for Japanese players. He was forgotten almost as soon as he got here but I'm also not sure that was totally his fault. A number of average, bad or forgettable pitchers came over after him and I would say watered down the excitement from Japan. These would include:

Hideki Irabu; Shigetoshi Hasegawa; Masato Yoshii; Tomo Ohka, etc.

I think we can agree that Ichiro broke the dam. But, while the few between Nomo and Ichiro weren't the best, Nomo certainly created a sense of yearning from scouts to find the next crossover star, not believing that Nomo was a unicorn. Certainly, Ichiro's stardom as a position player and great hitter opened paved the dirt road for Matsui and Ohtani...but Nomo opened the door for Ichiro.

And I don't believe Nomo was "forgotten almost as quickly as he arrived." My friends and I were trying to mimic his pitching style. And mimicry is the best form of flattery. Yesterday the kids were calling it the Johnny Cueto wiggle; but in 1995 it was known as the Nomo.

Agreed, he seems like a great person which makes it even easier to root for him. Kody Clemens (position player) struck him out last year and Ohtani signed the ball for him.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/HGD3...8.17.47_PM.png

You have to consider it from the Japanese perspective too though. Until Nomo NPB teams had a stranglehold on their players and nobody even considered going to MLB. The whole system by which Japanese players come to MLB was established as a result f him.

In Japan, Nomo is still a household name. He was massively famous here before he went to MLB and still is, everyone knows that he is the guy who paved the way.

Ichiro is also a special case because he was the first hitter to come over, and have aHOF career in MLB. But Nomo in Japan is well known as the guy who kicked it off (for better or worse, not all fans here like seeing the best players go to MLB, though most are OK with it).

Witnessing Nomo-mania from the perspective of a half Japanese SF Giants fan was super cool. To that point in my life, I had never seen an Asian born athlete create any buzz at all, let alone everywhere he played. This was especially true in a place like the Bay Area with tons of Asians and Asian Americans.

IMO, Asians/Asian Americans were starved for someone they could root for. There were always loud Nomo rooting sections at Candlestick, and I remember him pitching a near no-hitter in his first SF start, with I think 16 K's. He was getting standing ovations from the Dodgers and Giants fans alike. He was totally electric and there was no one in MLB who had a pitching style like him. He also always projected a totally cold blooded demeanor on the mound, like the Black Widow in pool.

I absolutely think he played a HUGE role to all the Japanese, and frankly all the Asian born players who followed after him. His brief peak is part of the legend too. Lightning in a bottle, a bit like a Timmy Lincecum. They also both pitched their respective no-hitters during the tail end of their careers.

IMO, Nomo is not forgotten amongst those who saw him break through and understood what it represented at the time. And Ohtani will potentially carry the torch further than any of them.

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he is amazing but odds are he will get hurt and at best only be a one way player.....bo jackson is the only comparable i see to him being... its basically two unique sport skill sets for him as batting and pitching totally different.. like Bo doing 2 unique sport stills...but he got hurt..

Nomo had a no hitter in Colorado too i believe..


one issue is that Nomo was here first..so he has to get extra credit for that..

Totally agree, and in addition to the "extra credit" for coming first, I also think he LEGITEMATELY opened doors for the guys who immediately followed. Had Nomo been lit up as a rookie, lost his rotation spot, maybe been sent down, there's no doubt that at least some of the guys who followed would not have been given their opportunity.

I think it also totally changes things in Japan/Korea/etc. Having a Nomo type figure (and then Ichiro, Matsui, Daisuke, Darvish) to aspire towards is as important as anything for developing the next generation of players. Maybe today's guys develop and reach the MLB as they did without Nomo, but I think the initial progress of Asian players is probably at least delayed a few years without Nomo. And as a more extreme possibility without these icons, maybe fewer kids truly dedicate themselves so fully to baseball, like Ohtani.

Re- injury potential and Bo Jackson, I've thought of them in the same sentence too. However, I also think that if Ohtani fizzles out due to injury, he'll at minimum have a lasting legacy like Bo Jackson. Maybe not a HOFer, but the ultra bright shooting star people will be talking about for decades. And I also think if Ohtani lasts long enough to put up marginal even substandard HOF stats on both sides (maybe 300 HRs and 100 wins), he will make the HOF, no doubt in my mind.

HAM FIGHTERS never do well in the long run.

and cheesy at that...

Team name is “Fighters”.

“Nippon Ham” is the team’s corporate owner.

I think the general thoughts around baseball at the time, was that Japanese pitchers could be successful in MLB but Japanese hitters could never have the same success. Ichiro and Hideki Matsui changed that perception.

I'm still not convinced on Nomo. He was obviously talented and had two great seasons to start his career but despite what everyone is saying I remember Nomo coming and going. When he came over it was huge news but the Yankees started their dynasty in 1996 and I don't remember a lot of Nomo talk after.

I would however say the situation was much different vis a vis Livan Hernandez. I think Cuban players owe a lot to Livan and their status in the game as prospective MLB stars was cemented when he came over and won the World Series and World Series MVP honors.

His brother was one of the most ruthless post season pitchers I've ever seen too. Orlando had ice in his veins.

Spam needs to get a team too

Funny how with all this talk about who was first, not a soul has even mentioned Masanori Murakami. Always liked his 1965 Topps rookie card.

And before all you naysayers start jumping in and going on about how he didn't cause more Japanese players to suddenly start coming to the U.S. and playing in the majors, that isn't my point. It is simply that he was the first, and as such, he does deserve some recognition.

Sorry, system doing multiple posts again.

And a triple post no less. Ugh!

I think Nomo hype being compared to the Yankee dynasty, or the first Cuban players is totally beside the point. It's not like anyone's arguing he was the biggest thing in all baseball, but he was huge in the Asian/Asian American community. And Nomo as a single pitcher who proved that Japanese players could be hugely valuable on MLB rosters is the main point. If there had been a perception pre-Nomo that Japanese could be successful, I think it's totally stunted if he doesn't actually succeed. And I think that also sets the hitters back.

BTW- Murakami isn't forgotten on me. He was a trailblazer for sure, but he supposedly got homesick and went back after his single MLB season. In turn, we didn't seen another Japanese player for 30 years. I think that's telling when it comes to importance of "the first". Had Murakami stuck around, broke into the rotation and had a 10+ year MLB career, I suspect many others would have followed much sooner.

I don't know anything about Murakami. Was he highly touted at the time? Was he a top pitcher in Japan? Enquiring minds want to know.

Maybe that is part of the difference, and possibly another reason Murakami left so quickly. He actually played in two different season, 1964 and 1965, but only had one start. He was basically used as a reliever, and sort of a closer. He actually ended up with 5-1 MLB record, and was credited with 9 saves. He had a not unrespectable 3.43 ERA and WHIP of 0.985, and a very respectable 100 SOs in only 89.1 innings pitched. Certainly wasn't a bust, and obviously had talent. A shame he didn't stick around so we could have seen how his career would have played out. And had he done so, it is quite possible that more Japanese players would have started coming over to play MLB, and/or more MLB teams would have gone over there looking for them, instead of it taking another 30 years or so before more Japanese players started coming.

Not sure of how he was playing in Japan, but look at his MLB stats. He was clearly not anywhere near what I would consider a bust.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...urakma01.shtml

Murakami had a succesful career in NPB after returning to Japan, pitching until 1982. Not HOF level, but good. He is still alive and has had a long broadcasting career here.

A big difference between him and Nomo is that his NPB team actually sent him to the US, expecting him to just get some experience in the minors and not thinking he would make the majors. Then he showed them and actually made it.

With Nomo on the other hand his team and NPB fought tooth and nail to prevent him from playing in the US.

They both have quite interesting stories, but very different ones.

Pretty cool seeing Ohtani strike out teammate Mike Trout to secure another WBC for Japan.

For sure. If a novelist had written that ending, nobody would have believed something like that would happen in real life. Absolutely amazing.

I saw the last few innings...the whole 9th inning buildup of Ohtani coming in to pitch the 9th was really just the stuff that legends are created from, and striking out Trout cementing it forever in baseball lore. I imagine the whole of Japan is just going nuts over it.

I believe this year's WBC has really jumped up several notches in importance in baseball fans minds, especially those from the United States, and has a shot at becoming somewhat of a World Cup-like event from here on out (of course still at a lower global level than the World Cup).

Brian